What is JaVale McGee's ceiling?

[TheSecretWeapon]

If Blatche and McGee don't play well together, then don't play them together except in emergency. Structure the rotation so the mix is Haywood-Jamison; Haywood-Blatche; McGee-Jamison; Blatche-Jamison. Probably not Haywood-McGee.

[fishercob]

I think it is -- and will continue to be -- important to keep in mind that things evolve. Players improve and evolve and coaches do too. Certainly what is true about what the Wiz can do today will not necessarily be true at the all-star break or in the playoffs. I would not take Bullets Forever's breakdown of Javale/Blatche's summer league performance as any sort of true referendum on where or with whom they can play.

I expect Flip to try tons of different lineup iterations to find out what works and what matches up well with particular opponents.

[Pradamaster]

A couple follow ups to that post I made about JaVale/Dray.

1. There's not a ton of data on the McGee/Blatche pairing, but last year, the only players Blatche played with that had more of a negative differential than JaVale last year were Mike James and Javaris Crittenton. http://www.82games.com/0809/0809WASP.HTM

It's not much, but just wanted to reiterate that the concerns aren't just from Summer League.

2. To respond to Kevin: It's more of a long-term problem than a short-term one. For this year, it won't matter much that they suck together because they probably won't play much together. The only point is, if both are in our long-term plans, then presumably both will eventually play a lot of minutes together. That's why it's concerning that they've sucked so much together so far. Otherwise, it's worth keeping one and trading the other for an upgrade.

3. To respond to fish: Players clearly can evolve. In the case of JaVale and Blatche, they should complement each other fine. Blatche passes, McGee finishes. Blatche shoots jumpers, McGee shouldn't shoot jumpers. Blatche can man up on guys, McGee can be the weakside defender. They just don't yet. In fact, Summer League may have been a step back on that front. The concern here is, when will they actually practice playing together much? Worse yet, will the fact that Blatche has spent most of the last two years (his most effective two years, mind you) playing primarily as a small-ball center hurt his development because eventually he'll have to share the frontcourt with McGee? These are questions that should continue to be considered.

The point isn't to slam the door shut on a Blatche/McGee frontcourt. It's only to question whether keeping both around long term is wise.

[WizarDynasty]

I think any of analysis of a mcgee blatche front court based on last years data really isn't that useful. The greatest joy in the summer league was seeing mcgee comfortable put the ball on the floor and take it in the paint with control.
We didn't see that at all. McGee's game is primarily based off his man leaving him open to stop a guard that has penetrated in the paint. Last year McGee showed no ability to put the ball on the floor and attack the rim. Whenever he put the ball on the floor from the perimeter, it usually resulted in a turnover.
As McGee becomes more comfortable putting the ball on the floor and using his speed and agility, we will start to see defenses collapse on him and open up Blatche's perimeter game. These two are going to baddest front in the league very soon. Matchup nightmares as long as they keep improving their stamina, lower leg strength, coordination, study Tim Duncan Tapes 3 hours a day, and listen to wise crafty vet Cassell, and block all of Jamsion softness on offense and poor defensive habits completely.

[nate33]

People worry way too much around here. I guess there isn't much to talk about in the offseason.

McGee and Blatche will play just fine together. Or rather, they'll play about as well as one would expect a couple of talented young bigs with low b-ball IQ to play. There could be any number of reasons why McGee played better later in the Summer League session. It was probably just due to matchups. McGee just happaned to be matched up with guys who didn't know his weaknesses.

At this point, all I want from McGee is for him to rotate properly on help D, and to not bite on pump fakes in man-to-man D. That's it. Everything else is gravy.

[alphad0gz]

I have been spending some time visiting other boards and what I have learned is that ALL fans way overrate their players. JM's ceiling? That's kind of a ridiculous question considering nobody knows what is inside the guy. As far as physical ceilings go, almost every player has a sky high ceiling. Our own Wilson Chandler is long, strong, and quicker than most SFs. He plays defense, is a good rebounder, and has an improving jumper. What is his ceiling? Pierce? No way. Top third at his position? Most likely. McGee is like a healthy T. Chandler but will likely never rebound the way Chandler or Camby does. Don't get me wrong, I really like the kid and wanted us to draft him if we could get another pick. I just think he is going to be a 12-15 point guy with a around 10 boards and 3 blocks. Comparisons to Wilt, Garnett, or any other all star is crazy.

[closg00]

People worry way too much around here. I guess there isn't much to talk about in the offseason.

McGee and Blatche will play just fine together. Or rather, they'll play about as well as one would expect a couple of talented young bigs with low b-ball IQ to play. There could be any number of reasons why McGee played better later in the Summer League session. It was probably just due to matchups. McGee just happaned to be matched up with guys who didn't know his weaknesses.

At this point, all I want from McGee is for him to rotate properly on help D, and to not bite on pump fakes in man-to-man D. That's it. Everything else is gravy.

What about putting some meat on his bones, he doesn't seem to want to add much-needed weight.

This is from Steinberg.

JaVale obviously closed summer league with two monster, monster performances, both of which I missed, since I left after Friday night's loss. Coaches explicitly challenged him to step up his defense after he had zero blocks in his first SL game, and he closed with something like 16 blocks in his last three games, if I'm remembering correctly. That's encouraging. I still find it odd that he says he doesn't think he needs to add any weight (he's around 250 now, and is heading to 255 just to satisfy the coaching staff), but he's obviously got a few eye-popping talents. Turning those attributes into a solid NBA player is the next step.

[Pradamaster]

People worry way too much around here. I guess there isn't much to talk about in the offseason.

McGee and Blatche will play just fine together. Or rather, they'll play about as well as one would expect a couple of talented young bigs with low b-ball IQ to play. There could be any number of reasons why McGee played better later in the Summer League session. It was probably just due to matchups. McGee just happaned to be matched up with guys who didn't know his weaknesses.

At this point, all I want from McGee is for him to rotate properly on help D, and to not bite on pump fakes in man-to-man D. That's it. Everything else is gravy.

What about putting some meat on his bones, he doesn't seem to want to add much-needed weight.

This is from Steinberg.

JaVale obviously closed summer league with two monster, monster performances, both of which I missed, since I left after Friday night's loss. Coaches explicitly challenged him to step up his defense after he had zero blocks in his first SL game, and he closed with something like 16 blocks in his last three games, if I'm remembering correctly. That's encouraging. I still find it odd that he says he doesn't think he needs to add any weight (he's around 250 now, and is heading to 255 just to satisfy the coaching staff), but he's obviously got a few eye-popping talents. Turning those attributes into a solid NBA player is the next step.

I talked to JaVale while I was in Vegas and asked him about that quote. His response was more along the lines of "Yes, I need to get stronger."

Take it for what it's worth, but just saying.

[doclinkin]

One of the best benefits of youth is that it becomes maturity at some point. For most people.

Brendan Haywood didn't want to work hard in the weight room early on. Coaches and pundits since college knocked him for being lazy, soft, weak, out of shape. Early on sometimes it seemed he was tired, that he'd foul just to get out of the game and get a rest. He'd put in good activity early in a game, but tail off. Or put in less 'effort' running the floor etc.

At some point he got pissed off enough and wanted respect enough that he began working his tail off all summer, he followed the advice of his friend Antawn: shut them up by working harder than anyone and beating them. With muscle and stamina he discovered a bit of a mean streak, even pushing Dwight Howard around one game.

If JaVale cares and wants to compete, he'll figure out that he needs more power.. He loves the applause from playing low and slamming it home, if he wants to hear it, he'll put in the work.

But a coach like Sam Cassell is not going to let him forget, won't let him cheat the guards on the pick, will get in his ear about playing big. Already we read quotes where he has fixed JaVale's tendency to jump on every pump fake, saying: You don't need to bite, you're still bigger than everybody just standing still. In two games JaVale altered the habit.

A detail-oriented coach like Flip will find his strengths and tweak his weaknesses. The coaching staff won't relent on the idea that he needs to get stronger, but I suspect they'll also work with him on technique. Yes, he still needs a Big Man coach. Yes he's still developing. But it would be frankly stupid to suspect that the kid we see today is the finished product we'll get in the long term. I was irked and discomfited by the Big play for the first couple games of Vegas, but finished with a positive outlook in seeing how quickly the team began to fix flaws and adjust to maximize their skillset, play together, team defense, communication.

The pollyanna apostle I may be, but if so it's based on the evaluation of players who ought to know better. Chris Paul said the kid will be special. Dwight Howard was impressed with his size and athleticism. Shaq Daddy said this kid has the thing, gave the head-nod based on all of the above and mostly that he didn't back down nor crumble when Shaq gave him the business but instead came right back down the court and went after the big fella. No change in expression, just putting in work. Healthy skepticism is a fine thing. I'm saying, s'okay, give it time, you'll see, kid'll be fine. And then some.

[doclinkin]

And if Flip can't teach him, maybe Koach K kan:

Marc Spears, Yahoo NBA/USA Basketball beat guy wrote on twitter:

bayless out of usa camp due to wrist injury; javelle mcghee in

Linky.

[WizarDynasty]

Koach K sucks with big men.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Shoot, sign me up for McGee becoming Larry Nance. 13 seasons -- all of them at least pretty good; 6 with a PER better than 20. Consistent scorer, rebounder and shot blocker. 3x All-Defense; 3x All-Star. 8x top 10 shot blocker. #61 in ALL-TIME career PER. My APBRmetrics colleage MikeG, who does some fabulous things with the numbers has Nance at #56 all-time (including credit for playoffs).

Plus, he helped lead Phoenix to the Western Conference Finals (lost to the Kareem-Magic-Worthy-Eddie Jordan Lakers, which lost in 7 to the Celtics that year). Also helped Cleveland to the Eastern Conference Finals (lost to the Jordan Bulls, which would win its 2nd title a few weeks later).

Never really good enough to be The Guy, but still a damn fine player. If he lands with the Lakers instead of Worthy, Nance is the one who goes to the Hall of Fame.

Gotta agree with you there. Nance was as good or better than Worthy. I'd say better.

If not for a confluence of things, I think Nance would be a HOFer. Untimely njuries to Daugherty and Mark Price, and even Nance robbed Cleveland of a lot of victories when that team should have peaked. Micheal Jordan robbed them of more. Nance's star would have been brighter if not for that and for the fact he came along right during the height of the Bird/McHale/Parrish Celtics and the Bad Boy Pistons.

TSW, I'd campaign for Nance to belong in the NBA. He and Dennis Johnson belong in there just as much as Worthy and Joe Dumars. Having said Nance was as good as Worthy I'd say DJ was as good as HOFer Dumars.

None of that has to do with Javale, but the premise is Javale's got a game similar to Nance's.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If Blatche and McGee don't play well together, then don't play them together except in emergency. Structure the rotation so the mix is Haywood-Jamison; Haywood-Blatche; McGee-Jamison; Blatche-Jamison. Probably not Haywood-McGee.

I don't know why not Haywood-McGee.

I think that's ultimately the best pairing of them all once Javale's game develops. Might end up Haywood's the one to step outside the paint initially to let Javale operate. Brendan can be the offensive rebounder, he can hit the 8-10 footer, or he become a screener for Javale. TSW you did say probably not--which leaves some hope for it in your mind. I'd like to see Flip at least test the pairing.

The Wizards as currently constructed only get better with size at PF. That''ll either mean Blatche or McGee at PF. Something tells me Pam McGee is right about her son having PF skills. (Flash back to the Larry Nance comparison). What will have to happen is the team's best C, Brendan Haywood, will have to try and learn a new trick to accomodate that development.

[Wizardspride]

What about putting some meat on his bones, he doesn't seem to want to add much-needed weight.

Weight doesn't necessarily equal strength.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I agree, Wizardspride.

David Robinson's listed weight was 235. Parish probably weighed in the 240s. Kareem didn't get to 260 until he was over 40 IIRC. KG can't weigh more than 230-235. None of those slightly-built guys were weak.

Javale IMO just needs to learn to get leverage and to build strength through his weight lifting. He's only 22 and he'll fill out a lot in the next 5 years IMO.

It's not like Dwight Howard was 265 right away.

[TheSecretWeapon]

McGee is like a healthy T. Chandler but will likely never rebound the way Chandler or Camby does.

Rookie Rebound Rates

McGee -- 15.1 (1143 total minutes)
Chandler -- 14.1 (1389 total minutes)
Garnett -- 13.1 (2293 total minutes)
Camby -- 12.2 (1897 total minutes)

[closg00]

What about putting some meat on his bones, he doesn't seem to want to add much-needed weight.

Weight doesn't necessarily equal strength.

True, but he's got neither....he's working on it though.

[TheSecretWeapon]

If Blatche and McGee don't play well together, then don't play them together except in emergency. Structure the rotation so the mix is Haywood-Jamison; Haywood-Blatche; McGee-Jamison; Blatche-Jamison. Probably not Haywood-McGee.

I don't know why not Haywood-McGee.

I think that's ultimately the best pairing of them all once Javale's game develops. Might end up Haywood's the one to step outside the paint initially to let Javale operate. Brendan can be the offensive rebounder, he can hit the 8-10 footer, or he become a screener for Javale. TSW you did say probably not--which leaves some hope for it in your mind. I'd like to see Flip at least test the pairing.

The Wizards as currently constructed only get better with size at PF. That''ll either mean Blatche or McGee at PF. Something tells me Pam McGee is right about her son having PF skills. (Flash back to the Larry Nance comparison). What will have to happen is the team's best C, Brendan Haywood, will have to try and learn a new trick to accomodate that development.

I was talking about for this season. I don't expect Javale's game to be developed this season. Better, yes, but not "ready" to be a PF or to be paired with Haywood as anything but a gimmick lineup for this year.

[fishercob]

McGee is like a healthy T. Chandler but will likely never rebound the way Chandler or Camby does.

Rookie Rebound Rates

McGee -- 15.1 (1143 total minutes)
Chandler -- 14.1 (1389 total minutes)
Garnett -- 13.1 (2293 total minutes)
Camby -- 12.2 (1897 total minutes)

WOW!

[Ruzious]

McGee is like a healthy T. Chandler but will likely never rebound the way Chandler or Camby does.

Rookie Rebound Rates

McGee -- 15.1 (1143 total minutes)
Chandler -- 14.1 (1389 total minutes)
Garnett -- 13.1 (2293 total minutes)
Camby -- 12.2 (1897 total minutes)

WOW!

QFT on the WOW. I would never have guessed that. Maybe we (me) are too hard on him, because we (I) expect so much out of a guy that long and talented. His numerous mistakes tend to stick out because of that, but most rookie bigs make tons of mistakes.