Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - 02/06/13)

[nate33]

What about this move.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a5s75f5

3 way with denver and the hawks
WIZ GET: Mozgov, Jenkins and Hamilton. and one of hawks first round picks.
Denver Gets: Pachulia, Morrow and Petro, and one of Hawk first round picks and NYK's second from us.
Hawks Get: Okafor and crawford.Toss in singleton if you have to.

wiz get some nice young building blocks that are being underused by their current teams. and a first round pick. Plus we save a boat load of money right now.
denver gets some vet help and 1 year contracts. any one they do not want they can just buy out and send on their way, plus they get a first and second round pick.
the hawks get an up grade at center and get a more consistent scorer in Crawford.

Mozgov is a journeyman backup center with no starting potential. Hamilton hasn't even earned more than 300 minutes in an entire season yet. Jenkins looks like a guy who will hang around for a while because he can shoot, but he doesn't do anything else. He's Cartier Martin 2.0. Basically, all three guys we get in the trade are either worthless or easily replaceable.

Also, you have Denver taking on $8.5M in salary, placing them over the luxtax. I don't think they'd be very thrilled about that.

The real issue is Atlanta. They are giving up two first round picks to make a modest upgrade from Zaza to Okafor. I don't see the motivation, not when they're probably going to completely revamp the roster next year. If Atlanta really wants Okafor, it would probably be better to just wait until the offseason and work out a much simpler deal where we give them Okafor for a 1st round pick. (They'll have the cap room to absorb Okafor's salary in July.) That way, Denver only gives up 1 pick.

[Deivy202]

Humprie-1st nets 013- brooks for nene whos with me.

[montestewart]

Humprie-1st nets 013- brooks for nene whos with me.

Probably everyone but the Nets. If you can swing that, EG's fired and you're hired.

[gambitx777]

Mozgov is a journeyman backup center with no starting potential. Hamilton hasn't even earned more than 300 minutes in an entire season yet. Jenkins looks like a guy who will hang around for a while because he can shoot, but he doesn't do anything else. He's Cartier Martin 2.0. Basically, all three guys we get in the trade are either worthless or easily replaceable.

Also, you have Denver taking on $8.5M in salary, placing them over the luxtax. I don't think they'd be very thrilled about that.

The real issue is Atlanta. They are giving up two first round picks to make a modest upgrade from Zaza to Okafor. I don't see the motivation, not when they're probably going to completely revamp the roster next year. If Atlanta really wants Okafor, it would probably be better to just wait until the offseason and work out a much simpler deal where we give them Okafor for a 1st round pick. (They'll have the cap room to absorb Okafor's salary in July.) That way, Denver only gives up 1 pick.

I dissagree. Hamilton has not really gotten an chance, His shooting is respectable and hes only 22. and with jenkins he is only 21, and the kid can shoot the 3. I see him being a more efficient crawford. The fact is these two guys need more playing time and they will get it here. mozgov, sure he may be destined to be a back up, but hes cheep and we are dumping a chucker and a big contract for him. and we get a pick.

here is the thing for denver. they want a pick, they do not really give mozgov or hamilton playing time. they will probably just cut most of that money any way. they will not be going over tax, when they can just cut that money right away. they will probably cut morrow and ZAZA and just keep petro and take the picks. Or they keep ZAZA, cut petro and morrow and then drop stone. Or hell they cut all 3 and just keep the picks. i would guess they keep petro and bring up miller from the D league to cover Hamilton loss. they are basically the same team with some extra picks. BTW miller is doing well in the D league lately.

the hawks are a better team, Zaza is dealing with lingering injury issues and they are having a shortage of serviceable 2 guards right now. i may not think so but this is considered a weak draft they might move those pick and injured players for a chance to make a run now.

they hawks dump players they are not moving to get better.
we pick up young talent and dump old money.
and denver does it for the pick and the chance to give miller playing time.

[nate33]

Mozgov is a journeyman backup center with no starting potential. Hamilton hasn't even earned more than 300 minutes in an entire season yet. Jenkins looks like a guy who will hang around for a while because he can shoot, but he doesn't do anything else. He's Cartier Martin 2.0. Basically, all three guys we get in the trade are either worthless or easily replaceable.

Also, you have Denver taking on $8.5M in salary, placing them over the luxtax. I don't think they'd be very thrilled about that.

The real issue is Atlanta. They are giving up two first round picks to make a modest upgrade from Zaza to Okafor. I don't see the motivation, not when they're probably going to completely revamp the roster next year. If Atlanta really wants Okafor, it would probably be better to just wait until the offseason and work out a much simpler deal where we give them Okafor for a 1st round pick. (They'll have the cap room to absorb Okafor's salary in July.) That way, Denver only gives up 1 pick.

I dissagree. Hamilton has not really gotten an chance, His shooting is respectable and hes only 22. and with jenkins he is only 21, and the kid can shoot the 3. I see him being a more efficient crawford. The fact is these two guys need more playing time and they will get it here. mozgov, sure he may be destined to be a back up, but hes cheep and we are dumping a chucker and a big contract for him. and we get a pick.

here is the thing for denver. they want a pick, they do not really give mozgov or hamilton playing time. they will probably just cut most of that money any way. they will not be going over tax, when they can just cut that money right away. they will probably cut morrow and ZAZA and just keep petro and take the picks. Or they keep ZAZA, cut petro and morrow and then drop stone. Or hell they cut all 3 and just keep the picks. i would guess they keep petro and bring up miller from the D league to cover Hamilton loss. they are basically the same team with some extra picks. BTW miller is doing well in the D league lately.

the hawks are a better team, Zaza is dealing with lingering injury issues and they are having a shortage of serviceable 2 guards right now. i may not think so but this is considered a weak draft they might move those pick and injured players for a chance to make a run now.

they hawks dump players they are not moving to get better.
we pick up young talent and dump old money.
and denver does it for the pick and the chance to give miller playing time.

Propose that on the trade board and see how much feedback you get. I'm telling you, Atlanta definitely hangs up the phone. Denver fans might like it because they don't worry too much about their owner's wallet, but Denver's owner would probably reject it. They are paying $8M for a late first round pick.

[LyricalRico]

Nene+Ariza+Booker for Batum+Babbitt?

[nate33]

Nene+Ariza+Booker for Batum+Babbitt?

Yes. In a heartbeat. Our perimeter shooting would improve big time with Webster and Batum sharing time at SF and Babbitt getting some minutes at backup PF as a stretch 4. Also, I'd rather have 2800 minutes a season out of Batum than 1800 minutes out of Nene, even if Nene is a better player.

I'm not sure if Portland would want Ariza though. Yes, they're filling the void left by Batum's departure, but Ariza's cap hit in 2013 really screws up their free agency plans in the summer. I'd do it either way. I'd do any form of Nene for Batum swap. Batum is a legit core piece given his age. Wall + Beal + Batum + 2013 1st could be a good foundation, if that pick is a big man like Noel. Maybe Seraphin figures things out and becomes our other big man of the future. We can also look to trade Vesely for a stretch 4 like Patterson or Marcus Morris. Then fill out the roster with veterans like Okafor, Webster and Price.

PG Wall/Price
SG Beal/Crawford
SF Batum/Webster
PF Patterson/Seraphin
C Okafor/Noel

Still a little weak at PF, but rock solid at all other positions with a good combination of shooting and defense to complement Wall. If Wall can't make it work with that lineup, then we know he's not the player we need him to be.

[Ruzious]

One player I'd try to steal is JJ Redick. His price is likely low now because he'll be a free agent after this season, and Orlando is already paying good money for Afflalo to play the 2. I know, Redick is a smallish 2, and we already have that in Beal, but I think when you have good players who are good shooters, you can find ways to play them together. Back in the day, Don Nelson made a name for himself coaching the Bucks and finding ways to play several small to mid-size players together and making good use of all of them - Brian Winters, Junior Bridgman, Sid Moncrief, Ricky Pierce, etc. Basically, I'm saying - if you can get a good player for cheap, then do it - regardless of who you already have. Redick is a great shooter and also a very efficient scorer with surprisingly good +/- defensive stats. Orlando would be looking for young talent potential, so they might look more favorably on Crawford/Vesely/2nd rounder package than other teams would.

[jivelikenice]

I think redick has improved a great deal, but I wouldn't deal for him. Him and Beal are too short to share the court together....

[Dat2U]

I like Redick but neither he or Beal have the versatility to slide to either the 1 or 3. So you really can't play them together and Redick is certainly worthy of being more than a 12 min backup. Unless we don't plan on playing Beal 30 minutes a night, I'm not sure it's a good allocation of resources.

We need to find a 1/2 or 2/1. Someone that's capable of handling the point but has enough scoring & shooting ability to play alongside Wall. Someone like Lou Williams.

[Deivy202]

Any trade rumoe from us? We been very very quiet.

[nate33]

I like Redick but neither he or Beal have the versatility to slide to either the 1 or 3. So you really can't play them together and Redick is certainly worthy of being more than a 12 min backup. Unless we don't plan on playing Beal 30 minutes a night, I'm not sure it's a good allocation of resources.

We need to find a 1/2 or 2/1. Someone that's capable of handling the point but has enough scoring & shooting ability to play alongside Wall. Someone like Lou Williams.

Agreed.

The bottom line is that we don't need Redick as much as other teams do, so other teams are sure to beat our best offer.

[tontoz]

I like Redick but neither he or Beal have the versatility to slide to either the 1 or 3. So you really can't play them together and Redick is certainly worthy of being more than a 12 min backup. Unless we don't plan on playing Beal 30 minutes a night, I'm not sure it's a good allocation of resources.

We need to find a 1/2 or 2/1. Someone that's capable of handling the point but has enough scoring & shooting ability to play alongside Wall. Someone like Lou Williams.

You mean like Crawford?










Sorry couldn't help it lol.

[Dat2U]

If JCraw got a brain transplant that sent a shockwave of electricity through his body if he tried to shoot in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock then he'd a viable option as a 3rd guard lol.

[Ruzious]

I think when you have good wings, you can play them together and let the opposition worry about matching up with them - rather than worry about their size. If you can score at the 2, you can score at the 3. If you play Beal 30 minutes a game and Redick 28, they have to play together only 10 minutes a game. I don't think it takes a genius coach to figure out how to play them together effectively for 10 minutes a game.

[Dat2U]

I think if you tried to play either 6-4 guy at SF for 10 minutes a night, opposing coaches would immediately take advantage of that.

That's basically playing 4 on 5 defensively.

[Ruzious]

I think if you tried to play either 6-4 guy at SF for 10 minutes a night, opposing coaches would immediately take advantage of that.

That's basically playing 4 on 5 defensively.

If they do, it'd just as likely blow up in their faces than help them. That's generally what happens when teams go outside of what's generally effective for them. For example, if I'm playing Charlotte, I went them to try to score with MKG - even if I'm guarding him.

Edit - looking at Orlando's 2 best win% lineups by far that they've used over 30 minutes this season - they're both with Redick and Afflalo (who's just marginally bigger than Beal) playing together at the wings.

[Dat2U]

Good point Ruz, although I do remember one time when Pat Riley was coaching the Heat, it was a tie game against the Wizards with the shot clock off and Heat's ball. And he diagrams a play for Udonis Haslem during a TO because he knew Antawn Jamison would be guarding him. Udonis get inbounds pass, faces up from 15 ft out and blows past Jamison for a layup and the game winner.

[Ruzious]

Good point Ruz, although I do remember one time when Pat Riley was coaching the Heat, it was a tie game against the Wizards with the shot clock off and Heat's ball. And he diagrams a play for Udonis Haslem during a TO because he knew Antawn Jamison would be guarding him. Udonis get inbounds pass, faces up from 15 ft out and blows past Jamison for a layup and the game winner.

And the Wiz would typically use 6'5 guard DeShawn Stevenson on Lebron.

[Dark Faze]

I really think we're going to end up targeting Granger. When you look at the Pacers and what they are doing without him in combination with the fact that they are a team that's strong due to depth and have a lot of people to pay, I think they let him slip away.

Granger is a great shooter of the long ball. Other than a couple of seasons the guy has knocked the 3 ball down at a good clip. He has a poor field goal percentage overall though, which is really odd considering that the guy shoots such a good 3 ball and is a career 85% FT shooter.

He was a legit 25PPG scorer a few years back, and nothing really suggests that he couldn't continue to do that. He's simply taking less shots.

Defensively he's solid and has a big body. He's probably the only 20 PPG scorer that we can get that wouldn't be a net negative defensively for us.

I think it works whatever way you may want to do it--by trading Ariza/Okafor for him so that they can attack Miami in the playoffs with size and defense, or by just straight up getting him in free agency after next season.

How do you guys feel about that acquisition?