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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1401 » by TGW » Thu May 30, 2013 1:47 pm

Anthony Bennett's size (6'7 in shoes) doesn't bother me. It's the fact that he's a terrible defender that bothers me. It took 11 years for Zach Randolph to finally give a flying crap about defense, and even then he needed a DPOY to play next to. The kid has tremendous talent, athletic ability, and a developing skillset that is tantilizing, but he is absolutely clueless defensively. Like Antawn Jamison bad. I would be very annoyed if this was the type of player the Wizards drafted, because he doesn't fit in with the defense-first mentality this team has developed the past two years.

I know Dejuan Blair isn't nearly as athletic as Bennett is, but if we want this type of player how about we just go after Blair instead? He's available, young and cheap.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1402 » by nate33 » Thu May 30, 2013 2:04 pm

In my opinion, Bennett's ability to defend at the NBA level is going to hinge a great deal on his standing reach. Historically, the success of NBA PF's with a standing reach below 8'10" has been pretty bleak. Right now, there are only four starting PF's with a sub 8-10" standing reach, Carmelo, Millsap, Al Thornton and Griffin. And none of those guys is known for their defense (though Millsap isn't bad).

A year ago at the Nike Hoops Summit, Bennett measured 6-7 in shoes with a 7-1 standing reach. Looking at the DX database, there have been 20 players who measured between 6-6 and 6-8 in shoes with a wingspan between 7-0 and 7-2. Most of those guys turned out to have a standing reach less than 8-10. Here is the list:

Code: Select all

Name              Year   HTwSH    Span     Reach       
Kenneth Faried    2011   6'7.5"   7'0"     9'0"         
Lonny Baxter      2002   6'7.75"  7' 1.5"  8' 11.5"     
Julius Hodge      2005   6'7"     7'0.5"   8'11.5"     
Stanley Robinson  2010   6'7.75"  7'0"     8'11.5"     
Joey Dorsey       2008   6'7.25"  7'1.75"  8'11"       
Damion James      2010   6'7.75"  7'0.75"  8'11"       
Rod Grizzard      2002   6'7.75"  7' 0"    8' 11"       
Wesley Johnson    2010   6'7.25"  7'1"     8'10"       
Damion James      2009   6'7.5"   7'0.75"  8'10"       
Paul Millsap      2006   6'7.25"  7'1.5"   8'9.5"       
Carmelo Anthony   2003   6'7.5"   7'0"     8'9.5"       
James Johnson     2009   6'7.75"  7'0.75"  8'9.5"       
Draymond Green    2012   6'7.5"   7'1.25"  8'9"         
Renaldo Balkman   2006   6'6.5"   7'1"     8'8.5"       
Vincent Yarbrough 2002   6'7"     7' 0.5"  8' 8.5"     
Michael Kidd-Gilch2012   6'7.5"   7'0"     8'8.5"       
Ryan Humphrey     2002   6'7"     7' 0"    8' 8.5"     
Al Thornton       2007   6'7"     7'1"     8'8"         
Luc Richard Mbah a2008   6'7.5"   7'0.5"   8'7.5"       
Nick Young        2007   6'6.75"  7'0"     8'4.5"       

It looks like a pretty good bet that Bennett will fall shy of the 8'-10" standing reach threshold. He might still carve out a career in the league, but chances are, his impact will be somewhat like that of Al Thornton. He might put up good numbers, but there's a good chance that his defensive issues will hurt more than his offense helps.

There's still hope though. Faried managed a 9'0" standing reach despite an even shorter wingspan. Maybe if Bennett has high shoulders, he might be closer to the 9'0" range where PF's start to become stronger defenders.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1403 » by rockymac52 » Thu May 30, 2013 2:19 pm

TGW wrote:Anthony Bennett's size (6'7 in shoes) doesn't bother me. It's the fact that he's a terrible defender that bothers me. It took 11 years for Zach Randolph to finally give a flying crap about defense, and even then he needed a DPOY to play next to. The kid has tremendous talent, athletic ability, and a developing skillset that is tantilizing, but he is absolutely clueless defensively. Like Antawn Jamison bad. I would be very annoyed if this was the type of player the Wizards drafted, because he doesn't fit in with the defense-first mentality this team has developed the past two years.

I know Dejuan Blair isn't nearly as athletic as Bennett is, but if we want this type of player how about we just go after Blair instead? He's available, young and cheap.


Nothing against Blair, as I agree that he's available, young, and cheap, and I'd love to see him backing up Nene next season, but I'm a little confused by your preference of Blair over Bennett (if I'm reading that right).

Take a look at these stats from synergy, measuring the player's defensive PPP (admittedly, a fairly flawed statistic, but still interesting):

Blair:
2013: 52nd percentile
2012: 19th percentile
2011: 27th percentile
2010: 28th percentile

2009 (sophomore at Pitt): 77th percentile
2008 (freshman at Pitt): 49th percentile

So I don't know about you, but I'm not seeing a very good defender here. He's average at best on defense, and in many years he's been quite below average.

For comparison's sake, in Bennett's only season at UNLV, his defensive PPP was in the 55th percentile. Not great, basically just average, at the end of the day, but more importantly, it's NOT bad. Bennett is not anywhere near Antawn Jamison's level on D, as you suggested.

Now let's say that everybody's concerns about Bennett's effort (or lack thereof) on defense are legitimate. Let's say he didn't care about playing defense at all this past season, and he didn't even try. That's certainly not a good sign if that's true, but the silver lining is that he was able to be a slightly above average defender in college WITHOUT EVEN TRYING. Now, I'd obviously prefer a player who always tries hard, and doesn't play down to the level of their competition, but hey, if that was as bad as we're going to see Bennett on defense, then I'm not overly concerned about his abilities on D at the next level. It can only get better, so to speak.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1404 » by WizarDynasty » Thu May 30, 2013 2:27 pm

al thornton had absolutely no body control with the basketball. And he couldn't finish through contact. He had explosiveness. Bennet has what it takes to be a wizard. Explosiveness which is most important.

and he meets at least one of the two less important but still important criteria. Above average body control with the basketball in his hands and above average ability to finish through contact.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1405 » by nate33 » Thu May 30, 2013 2:35 pm

I broadened the criteria. Here is a list of guys with similar body types to Bennett. All these guys are between 6-6 and 6-8 with shoes, 7-0 to 7-2 in wingspan, and weigh more than 220 pounds. Basically, it's a bunch of long-armed tweeners.

Code: Select all

Name              Year   HTwSH    Wght   Span     Reach       
Kenneth Faried    2011   6'7.5"   225    7'0"     9'0"       
Lonny Baxter      2002   6'7.75"  264    7' 1.5"  8'11.5"   
Mike Sweetney     2003   6'8"     262    7'1"     8'11.5"     
Joey Dorsey       2008   6'7.25"  265    7'1.75"  8'11"       
Damion James      2010   6'7.75"  227    7'0.75"  8'11"       
Dejuan Blair      2009   6'6.5"   277    7'2"     8'10.5"     
LeBron James      2003   6'8"     245    7'0.25"  8'10.25"   
Damion James      2009   6'7.5"   224    7'0.75"  8'10"       
Paul Millsap      2006   6'7.25"  258    7'1.5"   8'9.5"     
Carmelo Anthony   2003   6'7.5"   233    7'0"     8'9.5"     
James Johnson     2009   6'7.75"  257    7'0.75"  8'9.5"     
Draymond Green    2012   6'7.5"   236    7'1.25"  8'9"       
Michael Kidd-Gilch2012   6'7.5"   233    7'0"     8'8.5"     
Ryan Humphrey     2002   6'7"     223    7' 0"    8'8.5"     
Royce White       2012   6'8"     261    7'0"     8'8.5"     
Al Thornton       2007   6'7"     221    7'1"     8'8"       
Luc Richard Mbah a2008   6'7.5"   221    7'0.5"   8'7.5"     
Kevin Jones       2012   6'7.5"   251    7'1.5"   8'9"       
Ryan Gomes        2004   6'7.75"  248    7'2"     8'10.5"
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1406 » by TGW » Thu May 30, 2013 2:39 pm

rockymac52 wrote:
TGW wrote:Anthony Bennett's size (6'7 in shoes) doesn't bother me. It's the fact that he's a terrible defender that bothers me. It took 11 years for Zach Randolph to finally give a flying crap about defense, and even then he needed a DPOY to play next to. The kid has tremendous talent, athletic ability, and a developing skillset that is tantilizing, but he is absolutely clueless defensively. Like Antawn Jamison bad. I would be very annoyed if this was the type of player the Wizards drafted, because he doesn't fit in with the defense-first mentality this team has developed the past two years.

I know Dejuan Blair isn't nearly as athletic as Bennett is, but if we want this type of player how about we just go after Blair instead? He's available, young and cheap.


Nothing against Blair, as I agree that he's available, young, and cheap, and I'd love to see him backing up Nene next season, but I'm a little confused by your preference of Blair over Bennett (if I'm reading that right).

Take a look at these stats from synergy, measuring the player's defensive PPP (admittedly, a fairly flawed statistic, but still interesting):

Blair:
2013: 52nd percentile
2012: 19th percentile
2011: 27th percentile
2010: 28th percentile

2009 (sophomore at Pitt): 77th percentile
2008 (freshman at Pitt): 49th percentile

So I don't know about you, but I'm not seeing a very good defender here. He's average at best on defense, and in many years he's been quite below average.

For comparison's sake, in Bennett's only season at UNLV, his defensive PPP was in the 55th percentile. Not great, basically just average, at the end of the day, but more importantly, it's NOT bad. Bennett is not anywhere near Antawn Jamison's level on D, as you suggested.

Now let's say that everybody's concerns about Bennett's effort (or lack thereof) on defense are legitimate. Let's say he didn't care about playing defense at all this past season, and he didn't even try. That's certainly not a good sign if that's true, but the silver lining is that he was able to be a slightly above average defender in college WITHOUT EVEN TRYING. Now, I'd obviously prefer a player who always tries hard, and doesn't play down to the level of their competition, but hey, if that was as bad as we're going to see Bennett on defense, then I'm not overly concerned about his abilities on D at the next level. It can only get better, so to speak.


Blair is not really a preference...more like an alternative. Blair would come without using a high lottery pick. Blair also has 3 years experience in a high-level environment. He isn't nearly as physically talented as Bennett, but he would give us that same ability to score inside and rebound at a high rate, for a cheap price.

And I definitely think Bennett is as bad as jamison defensively. He just didn't look good defensively in the tape I saw this year. Slow rotations, ball-gazing, being in the wrong spot--it was as consistent as his ability to score. To me, that really hurts his stock.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1407 » by montestewart » Thu May 30, 2013 2:49 pm

nate33 wrote:In my opinion, Bennett's ability to defend at the NBA level is going to hinge a great deal on his standing reach. Historically, the success of NBA PF's with a standing reach below 8'10" has been pretty bleak. Right now, there are only four starting PF's with a sub 8-10" standing reach, Carmelo, Millsap, Al Thornton and Griffin. And none of those guys is known for their defense (though Millsap isn't bad).

A year ago at the Nike Hoops Summit, Bennett measured 6-7 in shoes with a 7-1 standing reach. Looking at the DX database, there have been 20 players who measured between 6-6 and 6-8 in shoes with a wingspan between 7-0 and 7-2. Most of those guys turned out to have a standing reach less than 8-10. Here is the list:

Code: Select all

Name              Year   HTwSH    Span     Reach       
Kenneth Faried    2011   6'7.5"   7'0"     9'0"         
Lonny Baxter      2002   6'7.75"  7' 1.5"  8' 11.5"     
Julius Hodge      2005   6'7"     7'0.5"   8'11.5"     
Stanley Robinson  2010   6'7.75"  7'0"     8'11.5"     
Joey Dorsey       2008   6'7.25"  7'1.75"  8'11"       
Damion James      2010   6'7.75"  7'0.75"  8'11"       
Rod Grizzard      2002   6'7.75"  7' 0"    8' 11"       
Wesley Johnson    2010   6'7.25"  7'1"     8'10"       
Damion James      2009   6'7.5"   7'0.75"  8'10"       
Paul Millsap      2006   6'7.25"  7'1.5"   8'9.5"       
Carmelo Anthony   2003   6'7.5"   7'0"     8'9.5"       
James Johnson     2009   6'7.75"  7'0.75"  8'9.5"       
Draymond Green    2012   6'7.5"   7'1.25"  8'9"         
Renaldo Balkman   2006   6'6.5"   7'1"     8'8.5"       
Vincent Yarbrough 2002   6'7"     7' 0.5"  8' 8.5"     
Michael Kidd-Gilch2012   6'7.5"   7'0"     8'8.5"       
Ryan Humphrey     2002   6'7"     7' 0"    8' 8.5"     
Al Thornton       2007   6'7"     7'1"     8'8"         
Luc Richard Mbah a2008   6'7.5"   7'0.5"   8'7.5"       
Nick Young        2007   6'6.75"  7'0"     8'4.5"       

It looks like a pretty good bet that Bennett will fall shy of the 8'-10" standing reach threshold. He might still carve out a career in the league, but chances are, his impact will be somewhat like that of Al Thornton. He might put up good numbers, but there's a good chance that his defensive issues will hurt more than his offense helps.

There's still hope though. Faried managed a 9'0" standing reach despite an even shorter wingspan. Maybe if Bennett has high shoulders, he might be closer to the 9'0" range where PF's starting to become stronger defenders.

That list adds some perspective, thanks. It's worth noting the number of SFs and G-Fs in that measurement range, and also all the number that never amounted to anything in the pros. It looks like only a fraction of players coming in with his comparable measurements manage to thrive at the next level.

If Bennett is as undersized (for a PF) as he seems to be, his size isn't a non-issue, it's a problem he will have to overcome to succeed in the NBA. His measurements should be an issue with any GM that wants to draft him, and the lack of available measurements has (to me) the appearance of keeping the value of the product up.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1408 » by Higga » Thu May 30, 2013 2:51 pm

Yeah if Bennett is that bad defensively, just say no. It's one thing to be bad but it sounds like he doesn't even put in the effort. If you won't try in college, why would he try in the pros now that he's already making millions?

I think it's pretty much a lock Porter is the pick unless Cleveland or Orlando stun the world and pick him before us.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1409 » by nate33 » Thu May 30, 2013 2:57 pm

TGW wrote:Blair is not really a preference...more like an alternative. Blair would come without using a high lottery pick. Blair also has 3 years experience in a high-level environment. He isn't nearly as physically talented as Bennett, but he would give us that same ability to score inside and rebound at a high rate, for a cheap price.

And I definitely think Bennett is as bad as jamison defensively. He just didn't look good defensively in the tape I saw this year. Slow rotations, ball-gazing, being in the wrong spot--it was as consistent as his ability to score. To me, that really hurts his stock.

Blair is nothing like Bennett on offense. All Blair has is a garbage game where he can crash the offensive glass. He has none of the ball skills Bennett has, and he lacks' Bennett's perimeter shot. Yes, Blair on a vet minimum contract might well be better than sacrificing the #3 pick for Bennett, but let's not act like their production would be similar.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1410 » by rockymac52 » Thu May 30, 2013 3:00 pm

nate33 wrote:I broadened the criteria. Here is a list of guys with similar body types to Bennett. All these guys are between 6-6 and 6-8 with shoes, 7-0 to 7-2 in wingspan, and weigh more than 220 pounds. Basically, it's a bunch of long-armed tweeners.

Code: Select all

Name              Year   HTwSH    Wght   Span     Reach       
Kenneth Faried    2011   6'7.5"   225    7'0"     9'0"       
Lonny Baxter      2002   6'7.75"  264    7' 1.5"  8'11.5"   
Mike Sweetney     2003   6'8"     262    7'1"     8'11.5"     
Joey Dorsey       2008   6'7.25"  265    7'1.75"  8'11"       
Damion James      2010   6'7.75"  227    7'0.75"  8'11"       
Dejuan Blair      2009   6'6.5"   277    7'2"     8'10.5"     
LeBron James      2003   6'8"     245    7'0.25"  8'10.25"   
Damion James      2009   6'7.5"   224    7'0.75"  8'10"       
Paul Millsap      2006   6'7.25"  258    7'1.5"   8'9.5"     
Carmelo Anthony   2003   6'7.5"   233    7'0"     8'9.5"     
James Johnson     2009   6'7.75"  257    7'0.75"  8'9.5"     
Draymond Green    2012   6'7.5"   236    7'1.25"  8'9"       
Michael Kidd-Gilch2012   6'7.5"   233    7'0"     8'8.5"     
Ryan Humphrey     2002   6'7"     223    7' 0"    8'8.5"     
Royce White       2012   6'8"     261    7'0"     8'8.5"     
Al Thornton       2007   6'7"     221    7'1"     8'8"       
Luc Richard Mbah a2008   6'7.5"   221    7'0.5"   8'7.5"     
Kevin Jones       2012   6'7.5"   251    7'1.5"   8'9"       
Ryan Gomes        2004   6'7.75"  248    7'2"     8'10.5"


See, this list doesn't scare me at all. It's pretty much exactly like you'd expect a random collection of 19 NBA players to be, if not much better. If we drafted Bennett at 3, I'd be more than pleased if he ended up being the equivalent skills-wise of Faried, LeBron, Millsap, Melo, or perhaps MKG. Then there's a handful of respectable role players, as well as a number of nobody's, including true busts and also guys who were never expected to do anything in the NBA. So why is this list supposed to make me think that Bennett isn't likely to succeed at the NBA level based on his size, or lack thereof?
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1411 » by nate33 » Thu May 30, 2013 3:22 pm

rockymac52 wrote:See, this list doesn't scare me at all. It's pretty much exactly like you'd expect a random collection of 19 NBA players to be, if not much better. If we drafted Bennett at 3, I'd be more than pleased if he ended up being the equivalent skills-wise of Faried, LeBron, Millsap, Melo, or perhaps MKG. Then there's a handful of respectable role players, as well as a number of nobody's, including true busts and also guys who were never expected to do anything in the NBA. So why is this list supposed to make me think that Bennett isn't likely to succeed at the NBA level based on his size, or lack thereof?

I don't think Bennett has the type of lateral quickness to legitimately cover SF's in this league so he has to be compared to PF's. So let's throw out Lebron and Kidd-Gilchrist. That leaves 16 comparisons (Damion James is listed twice).

Superstars:
Carmelo Anthony

Starters:
Paul Millsap
Kenneth Faried

Role Players:
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
Dejuan Blair
Al Thornton

Journeyman/Out-of-League
Lonny Baxter
Mike Sweetney
Joey Dorsey
Damion James
James Johnson
Draymond Green
Ryan Humphrey
Royce White
Kevin Jones
Ryan Gomes

I'd say the comparisons for Bennett's particular body type aren't that encouraging. 10 of the 16 guys are no better than vet-minimum type of role players. That said, I think it's important to acknowledge that Bennett is clearly more skilled than all those guys on the "Journeyman" list. Looking at his skill level, it would appear that he compares more to the "Starters" group which includes Millsap and Faried. I think he has a pretty good shot at rivaling them. The next question to ask is do we think the next Millsap/Faried is worth the #3? Those guys feel like players that should be drafted in the 6-12 range, not the top 3.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1412 » by rockymac52 » Thu May 30, 2013 3:28 pm

You could say that about almost anybody in this draft though. Whoever gets drafted 1st overall is not going to have the same feel as what you'd normally expect a #1 pick to have. The same might be true for our pick at 3rd overall, although not necessarily. But that's just the nature of the beast, and there's not much we can do about it. I'd be happy to come away from this draft with a Millsap/Faried type player. Maybe not quite ever an all-star, but very efficient and productive, and only a step below that tier. Maybe you would prefer to strike gold and get an all-star with the 3rd pick, but especially this year, there's only so much we can do about it, and it really just is what it is.

I'm also not sure why you keep including Al Thornton, or rather, why you are regarding him so highly. I'm pretty sure he's been out of the NBA for a couple seasons ever since he wasn't even good enough for the worst Wizards team of all time. Maybe you're thinking of Marcus Thornton, the SG for the Kings?
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1413 » by TGW » Thu May 30, 2013 3:38 pm

nate33 wrote:
TGW wrote:Blair is not really a preference...more like an alternative. Blair would come without using a high lottery pick. Blair also has 3 years experience in a high-level environment. He isn't nearly as physically talented as Bennett, but he would give us that same ability to score inside and rebound at a high rate, for a cheap price.

And I definitely think Bennett is as bad as jamison defensively. He just didn't look good defensively in the tape I saw this year. Slow rotations, ball-gazing, being in the wrong spot--it was as consistent as his ability to score. To me, that really hurts his stock.

Blair is nothing like Bennett on offense. All Blair has is a garbage game where he can crash the offensive glass. He has none of the ball skills Bennett has, and he lacks' Bennett's perimeter shot. Yes, Blair on a vet minimum contract might well be better than sacrificing the #3 pick for Bennett, but let's not act like their production would be similar.


Nate we have no idea what Bennett's production would be...Bennett could be a complete bust. To assume that Bennett would vastly outproduce Blair is reaching as well.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1414 » by Dark Faze » Thu May 30, 2013 4:07 pm

I don't think you can dismiss guys like Draymond Green and Blair when you compare them to Bennett. They all have similar body types. I think Draymond and Blair were more physical and were definitely better rebounders in college than Bennett. They also had better defensive reputations. Both are roleplayers in the NBA.

Bennetts offense is better but I'm concerned that he's just not versatile enough to have that translate to the NBA. I question whether his shooting will transition to the NBA because the FT percentage isn't where it should be for an elite shooter. draymond shot 36% and 39% his last two years in college on many more attempts and the efficiency didnt' translate to the NBA.

My fear is that Bennett will shoot worse than he did in college, be a below average defender and not be able to be physically dominant against NBA 4's and 5's. Under that circumstance his floor could be terribly low.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1415 » by pancakes3 » Thu May 30, 2013 4:13 pm

Ultimately I think both Porter and Bennet are going to turn out to be "just a guy" type players. Jared Dudley. Brandon Bass. Journeymen. The difference between these guys are the definition of marginal. So all things being equal talent-wise (different talents but probably the same net results), it just boils down to preference - or essentially a popularity contest. Even if either do manage to eke out an all-star appearance the best they'll equal would be Butler and Jamison at their highest of highs. Is Paul Pierce in the cards for Porter? Is Barkely in the cards for Bennett? Doubtful.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1416 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu May 30, 2013 4:17 pm

leswizards wrote:Since many posters are sold on Oladipo, I thought I would point out that the split stats at 82games.com (caveat many posters don't trust the splits for very reasons) show that Bradley Beal was a better PG than SG. So, if people really want the Wizards to draft Oladipo, it is possible to get Wall, Beal and Oladipo 36 minutes a night with some creative lineups by Randy Wittman (ie, Wall gets 36 mpg as a PG, Beal gets 24 mpg as a SG and 12 mpg as PG, while Oladipo gets 24 mpg as a SG and 12 mpg as a SF).


Yes, this is what I referred to in a post a few pages back. Beal, Oladipo, Ariza could be a lockdown defensive unit when Wall sits.

leswizards, I was not aware of the 82 games data but it just reinforces the point they can find minutes together and not necessarily in a small lineup.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1417 » by tontoz » Thu May 30, 2013 4:27 pm

Dark Faze wrote: draymond shot 36% and 39% his last two years in college on many more attempts and the efficiency didnt' translate to the NBA.




Green made 2 three pointers in his first two college seasons. Not really seeing the comparison there.

And let's not forget that Bennett was playing with a bad shoulder at the end of the season. He only made 1 of his last 8 three pointers.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1418 » by Dark Faze » Thu May 30, 2013 4:27 pm

pancakes3 wrote:Ultimately I think both Porter and Bennet are going to turn out to be "just a guy" type players. Jared Dudley. Brandon Bass. Journeymen. The difference between these guys are the definition of marginal. So all things being equal talent-wise (different talents but probably the same net results), it just boils down to preference - or essentially a popularity contest. Even if either do manage to eke out an all-star appearance the best they'll equal would be Butler and Jamison at their highest of highs. Is Paul Pierce in the cards for Porter? Is Barkely in the cards for Bennett? Doubtful.


I disagree.

I think the floors and ceilings are different.

Porters Ceiling (in terms of production, not necessarily play): More efficient Paul George (18-20 PPG, 7, 3)
Porters floor: Tayshaun Prince

Bennetts Ceiling: A better scoring version of 2010 Paul Millsap (39% from three, between 17-19 PPG, 8 RPG)
Bennetts Floor: Derrick Williams' current production, Draymond Green

I think I can live with Porters floor more than Bennetts floor and I prefer Porters ceiling.

That's my opinion though, I'm sure Bennett supporters would liken his ceiling more to Larry Johnson or Barkley.

tontoz wrote:
Dark Faze wrote: draymond shot 36% and 39% his last two years in college on many more attempts and the efficiency didnt' translate to the NBA.




Green made 2 three pointers in his first two college seasons. Not really seeing the comparison there.

And let's not forget that Bennett was playing with a bad shoulder at the end of the season. He only made 1 of his last 8 three pointers.


Its not about fresh vs soph comparison. It's just showing that guys with low FT percentages and high 3pt percentages tend not to be able to transfer college shooting efficiency to the NBA.

Draymond shot 134 three pointers in his senior year of college and shot 39%. That's a much larger sample size than Bennett with similar FT percentage.

He shot 21% from three in the NBA this year.

Derrick Williams has been a career 30% shooter from deep.

Beasley has been the most consistent tweener pro shooter at .345% from the nba three.

Its really hard for these guys to be efficient high usage scorers in the NBA.

More importantly, no tweener seems to be able to get off the bench. Green, Beasley, Williams, Blair, those guys never get off the bench.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1419 » by Dat2U » Thu May 30, 2013 4:37 pm

IMO you don't draft Oladipo unless your planning to utilize small ball lineups with Oladipo or Beal at SF and have specific gameplans in mind to take advantage of the speed/athleticism on the perimeter. If Beal is getting 34 minutes a night at SG, then Oladipo should see 14 at SG and 10-14 at SF. I don't Beal playing PG is a realistic option or something we should persue either.

If Porter is off the board, I'd likely take Oladipo and try to make it work.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V 

Post#1420 » by tontoz » Thu May 30, 2013 4:40 pm

When a guy shoots well from 3 as a freshman there is a much better chance that he is simply a natural shooter. Given that Bennett looked comfortable shooting jumpers off the dribble i think that is probably the case, as opposed to an upperclassman who works tirelessly to become a standstill 3 point threat.

Green was also a 61% foul shooter as a freshman. He didn't get to 70% until his senior year.

And Green hardly even played this year in the NBA. He attempted less than 1 three pointer per game. Talk about small sample sizes.
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