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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII

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The Consiglieri
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1401 » by The Consiglieri » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:08 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
rockymac52 wrote:Here's my issue with taking Bennett with the 3rd pick: why not trade back with the T'Wolves and get the 9th pick, possibly the 26th pick as well, and Derrick Williams, who is clearly a very similar player to Bennett?

I understand that the people in the pro-Bennett camp probably think Bennett is going to be much better than D-Will at the NBA level, which would change your perspective on such a trade down, but honestly, what makes you guys think that Bennett will be significantly better than D-Will in the NBA? Why was D-Will such a disappointment, but Bennett won't fall into the same trap?


This.


The funny thing about this take, especially coming from an Otto backer, is that if I knew, guaranteed, the pick was Porter, I would trade down for #9, #26 and Williams in a heartbeat. I think that's vastly more valuable than Porter alone who I think is at least a 50/50 shot to be no more valuable and possibly less than the 9th pick all by itself.

I would definitely do that trade if I knew Porter was the pick (and it does sound like they are leaning Porter at this point based on the latest rumor from Ford). I just don't think a pick of Porter at #3 can be remotely justified unless you are confident ahead of time, that he will develop into something far more than a "solid" player like Pelton believes (and he's been saying as much for a while). Unless there is a clear belief that Porter can and probably will develop into one of the best 3 players in the draft, he shouldn't be the pick. Far too many are satisfied with him merely because he plays a position of need, has high BBIQ, and is a hard worker. That's all well and good, but if his athleticism limits him to merely a solid 3 at the next level, the pick will be a bust at worst, and a disappointing pick at best. I'm not interested in that, which is why I'm not in favor of Porter. I simply believe you have to aim higher than starting roster player. I would go with whomever we think has the best chance of living up to his ceiling among Noel, Oladipo, Bennett, Len etc or dealing down.

As I've said before, though, if you believe Porter has greatness in him because of his intelligence, his work habits, maybe his length and improved shot, than I would completely believe in the pick. I just have not come across virtually any scout that feels that way about him other than the analytics guy at espn, and I did not "see" it when I watched him play. But betting on smarts and work habits if the player is athletic enough is always worth while. I suppose that's the question at the end of the day, can his level of athletic ability, in tandem with his work habits and brain allow for greatness, or very goodness.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1402 » by Dark Faze » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:18 pm

Would you guys select Kawhi Leonard at #3 if Porter wasn't an option and you knew how he'd turn out?

Because Porter is Kawhi with more offensive potential and less rebounding. And Kawhi was arguably the most consistent player in the NBA finals.

Porter is leagues better than Kawhi as a college player--better TS percentage, ORTG, longball.

So it's really disengenuous to say that Porter is "just a safe pick".
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1403 » by truwizfan4evr » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:30 pm

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/06/25 ... to-porter/ It also says the wizards are determind to draft Bennett.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1404 » by mhd » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:50 pm

truwizfan4evr wrote:http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/06/25/source-bobcats-shopping-kidd-gilcrest-to-draft-otto-porter/ It also says the wizards are determind to draft Bennett.



Sheesh, I'd rather have MKG than Porter.

Heck, do the trade down scenerio of:

Wiz trade #3+Ves for Derrick Williams+MKG
Min trade #9+Derrick Williams for #3+Ves
Bobcats trade MKG for #9
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1405 » by mhd » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:56 pm

My official scenerio preferences

1) Noel (won't happen)
2) Len
3) trade down and grab Zeller/Mccollum/Shabaaz
4) Oladipo
5) Mclemore
6) Bennett
7) Porter


I guess you can take that to mean I'm anti Porter
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1406 » by truwizfan4evr » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:57 pm

mhd wrote:
truwizfan4evr wrote:http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/06/25/source-bobcats-shopping-kidd-gilcrest-to-draft-otto-porter/ It also says the wizards are determind to draft Bennett.



Sheesh, I'd rather have MKG than Porter.

Heck, do the trade down scenerio of:

Wiz trade #3+Ves for Derrick Williams+MKG
Min trade #9+Derrick Williams for #3+Ves
Bobcats trade MKG for #9

On the trade board i expressed my interest in MKG and i would trade are third pick for him.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1407 » by LyricalRico » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:57 pm

mhd wrote:Heck, do the trade down scenerio of:

Wiz trade #3+Ves for Derrick Williams+MKG
Min trade #9+Derrick Williams for #3+Ves
Bobcats trade MKG for #9


EDIT: Nevermind, I didn't realize you had CHA keeping the #4. I think that could work, although I'm still wary of adding another non-shooter to our lineup. I'd try to pry the #26 away from MIN and try to draft a shooter.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1408 » by mhd » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:04 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
mhd wrote:Heck, do the trade down scenerio of:

Wiz trade #3+Ves for Derrick Williams+MKG
Min trade #9+Derrick Williams for #3+Ves
Bobcats trade MKG for #9


Only works if Porter is there at #9, though (which he probably wouldn't be). Porter for MKG and a future pick might be more realistic.

Actually, this would be a perfect spot for Orlando to trade down (assuming Noel goes #1). They trade the #2+filler for MKG+4, and they would still be guaranteed one of McLemore/Oladipo. Charlotte leapfrogs us to make sure they get their guy.



Hmm, MKG+4 for Tristan Thompson+1??
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1409 » by mhd » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:04 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
mhd wrote:Heck, do the trade down scenerio of:

Wiz trade #3+Ves for Derrick Williams+MKG
Min trade #9+Derrick Williams for #3+Ves
Bobcats trade MKG for #9


EDIT: Nevermind, I didn't realize you had CHA keeping the #4. I think that could work, although I'm still wary of adding another non-shooter to our lineup. I'd try to pry the #26 away from MIN and try to draft a shooter.



Local guys say the MKG rumor is bogus.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1410 » by Sonny Carson » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:08 pm

Trade #3 get MKG

Then Cousins joins the year after..

Cousins
Whoever
MKG
Beal
Wall

>>>> Pacers in a couple years.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1411 » by hands11 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:17 pm

rockymac52 wrote:
hands11 wrote:
NortheastWiz wrote:

Im on the Erik Murphy train too, but we havent even had him in for workouts.



Only two days to go. And it cant get here soon enough. I want to know what kind of team we are going to have next year.

How do they address.

We need.

A long strong defensive center 6-11 to 7-0
A 3rd guard with handles.

I like Otto, but still not seeing him as a better fit then Burke or VO. I guess Otto would make sense if Webster can really back up at SG.

I saw someone post that Webster was more efficient at SG then SF. Where did you get the data on that ? I didn't believe that to be true. I thought he was better at SF.

So maybe they go Otto and Wolter/Pierre

Wall/Wolter or Pierre
Beal/Webster/Temple
Trevor A/Otto
Nene/Ves/Booker/AJ
Okafor/Kevin

Singleton, 2nd 2nd unless they can trade Singleton with the 2nd 2nd and move up.

Then you see how things go. Maybe Trevor A wants to still around. Maybe you move him. Still does nothing to address center though.


Here's some statistical support on Webster being better at SG than SF. These stats don't definitively prove that notion, but they help.

2013: better at SG http://www.82games.com/1213/12WAS9.HTM
2012: mixed results http://www.82games.com/1112/11MIN6.HTM
2011: better at SF http://www.82games.com/1011/10MIN7.HTM

I guess there's some inconsistency there, partially the result of a small sample size. Make of it what you want. My take home message is that it appears that Webster is definitely capable of playing SG, even if he's not necessarily better at SG than SF.



Wall-Beal-Webster-Nene-Okafor 13-3

Hard to argue with that.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1412 » by AWIZZINGBULLET » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:19 pm

Sonny Carson wrote:Trade #3 get MKG

Then Cousins joins the year after..

Cousins
Whoever
MKG
Beal
Wall

>>>> Pacers in a couple years.


Would hope not...should aim for a lot higher.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1413 » by Sonny Carson » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:26 pm

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:
Sonny Carson wrote:Trade #3 get MKG

Then Cousins joins the year after..

Cousins
Whoever
MKG
Beal
Wall

>>>> Pacers in a couple years.


Would hope not...should aim for a lot higher.


Well I think the Heat) will be #1 for a while..

However, the Wiz have a lot of potential to be a top 2 or top 3 team in the East.

IF Wall takes that BIG LEAP next year, Beal continues to improve, get a good player or value this draft.....and another addition...you guys will be a contender imo.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1414 » by hands11 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:33 pm

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:In the Irish stretch 4 section, my preference is Ryan Kelly. Like Murphy, he's rebounding deficient, but he's a very underrated defensive player, and his 9'2 standing reach gives him an advantage over most PF's. He's going to slide because of rebounding, injuries, and his near 15 body fat %. Kelly's not a great athlete, but he looks quicker than Murphy. Getting healthy and in shape could make Kelly a major bargain.

Me too. I think Kelly is going to have a long NBA career. I'm assuming his high body fat is due to the injury. Obviously, if he's lazy, then he won't be a very good NBA player.


Amazing he isn't even showing up on DraftX
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1415 » by hands11 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:35 pm

rockymac52 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:
I too think Bennett is worthy of discussion and should be in consideration. I really like his potential and I like his fit here in terms of skill set and roster construction.


Agreed. I'm not necessarily on the Bennett bandwagon, although I think he's a top 5 talent. But he's still just as much in the mix as a possiblity at #3 as any of the other players we've been discussing. If there's no more to say about Bennett, then that's true of the others as well.


Here's my issue with taking Bennett with the 3rd pick: why not trade back with the T'Wolves and get the 9th pick, possibly the 26th pick as well, and Derrick Williams, who is clearly a very similar player to Bennett?

I understand that the people in the pro-Bennett camp probably think Bennett is going to be much better than D-Will at the NBA level, which would change your perspective on such a trade down, but honestly, what makes you guys think that Bennett will be significantly better than D-Will in the NBA? Why was D-Will such a disappointment, but Bennett won't fall into the same trap?


And D Will already has a few years of bumps and grinds out the way. More seasoned.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1416 » by AWIZZINGBULLET » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:35 pm

truwizfan4evr wrote:http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/06/25/source-bobcats-shopping-kidd-gilcrest-to-draft-otto-porter/ It also says the wizards are determind to draft Bennett.


I'm hoping there's some a little deception going on there. I like a lot of what Bennett brings but the team needs a player who's real grounded like an Otto Porter or Victor Oladipo. I think another talented, confident, young guy with his head on straight playing alongside Beal keeps Wall from growing too big of a head.

Bennett's not as mature a player as Porter or Oladipo.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1417 » by hands11 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:37 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:In the Irish stretch 4 section, my preference is Ryan Kelly. Like Murphy, he's rebounding deficient, but he's a very underrated defensive player, and his 9'2 standing reach gives him an advantage over most PF's. He's going to slide because of rebounding, injuries, and his near 15 body fat %. Kelly's not a great athlete, but he looks quicker than Murphy. Getting healthy and in shape could make Kelly a major bargain.


I think the team already has a rebounding deficiency. Beal and Wall are great rebounders for their position. Okafor and Booker are physical rebounders that can eat the defensive glass. Nene is maybe average. Every one else is a subpar rebounder for their position.

If we're looking for a role playing big, I'd rather get one with size that specializes in defense and rebounding rather than distance shooting.


http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jac ... ael-19449/
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1418 » by stevemcqueen1 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:38 pm

Ruzious wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:We've gone round and round, and I still think Noel goes first and McLemore goes second.

I hope we get one of Porter, Zeller, or Bennett, which is where I think I was at a couple months ago. Len has kind of teetered back and fourth on my wish list. I like everything I read about him. I dislike a lot of what I saw on the court.

Agreed. I think we're lucky that Orlando's picking 2nd, because they're one of the few teams that needs a 2. And they have 2 young 3's that I think they love in Harkless and Harris. Afflalo can start at the 2, but I'm guessing they'd rather not start him. I like Ola more than McLemore, but they need a shooter, so they probably go McLemore. But if Orlando trades the pick, it's scramble time, and all bets are off.

My preference would be to end up with Zeller preferably in a trade down, but I'm resigned to the fact that it's not happening.


I think Zeller's destination is totally unpredictable. I wouldn't be shocked if he replaces Len in the top five. If I had to guess, I'd say Sacramento at 7.

I think having him fall to 11 and Philly is wishful thinking. But if he did, he'd be the steal of the class. I think he's on the short list of guys who could end up being the best player in the class.

And I don't think we'll take him either. I think we're going to end up with Porter, Bennett, or Len. Not because we telegraph our picks but because those three are somewhat obvious choices for us at 3.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1419 » by AWIZZINGBULLET » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:39 pm

Sonny Carson wrote:
AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:
Sonny Carson wrote:Trade #3 get MKG

Then Cousins joins the year after..

Cousins
Whoever
MKG
Beal
Wall

>>>> Pacers in a couple years.


Would hope not...should aim for a lot higher.


Well I think the Heat) will be #1 for a while..

However, the Wiz have a lot of potential to be a top 2 or top 3 team in the East.

IF Wall takes that BIG LEAP next year, Beal continues to improve, get a good player or value this draft.....and another addition...you guys will be a contender imo.


I thought you meant as far as how the Pacers team is built.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII 

Post#1420 » by thricethefun » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:45 pm

If we can get MKG with our pick from this crummy draft I would be amazed. If we had it I would trade the #1 pick in this draft for him.

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