Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX

[nate33]

Fair enough. I was trying to use Nene as the cap ballast to send to Sacto because Karl loves and likely overvalues him; then wanted to trade Gortat to bring us some of the help we need.

Part of the issue with Gortat is that as the market stands right now, as good and valuable as he is, not a lot of teams would want him or they couldn't afford him. None of the West's elite (Spurs, GSW, LAC, HOU, MEM, OKC) are fits. Most other teams addressed their needs in the middle in free agency. He fits in New Orleans but they just committed to Asik. No one in the early stages of a rebuild want him due to his age.

So who are the possible suitors? Boston, Indiana, Portland, Dallas...? Anyone else?

I see why you are trying to include Nene, but I really just think he has negative value. The only reason to include him is if we're taking on bad contracts in return. But since Sacramento just ridded themselves of their two bad contracts (Thompson and Landry), I think Nene is off the table.

As far as teams who would want Gortat, I think BOS, IND, NYK, LAL, DAL and NOP make the most sense. I haven't really looked at their teams to see who could give Sacramento the best package back for Gortat.

[Dat2U]

Mickey does sign with Bahston - 4 years for a total of 5 mil - great signing by the Celts, but I think they're over the limit on the number of players on their roster. Seems like that sets up a nice option for the Wiz. His value has to be down with his poor finish in the playoffs - and we might be able to get him for just Webster and a future 1st - maybe even make it a top 20 protected - if I'm right about the Celtics having too many players. They just don't have much use for him. Not that he's anything close to a savior, but he's a skilled 7 footer with 3 point range. And while he's clumsy as hell on defense, he'll fight you for position (and rip your arm off in one case). If anything happens to Gortat, the season doesn't end.

Yes yes yes. A young very skilled big still under his rookie deal who fights & claws defensively would be a great pickup. As much as people question his defense, Boston was 3.0 pts better per 48 with Olynyk ON the floor. NBA Plus Minus also loves him on both ends of the court. I think that goes with the idea it's more about effort than talent on D. Not saying Olynyk is a stopper or anything but he's smart & doesn't quit. We could always use guys like that.

[Ruzious]

Fair enough. I was trying to use Nene as the cap ballast to send to Sacto because Karl loves and likely overvalues him; then wanted to trade Gortat to bring us some of the help we need.

Part of the issue with Gortat is that as the market stands right now, as good and valuable as he is, not a lot of teams would want him or they couldn't afford him. None of the West's elite (Spurs, GSW, LAC, HOU, MEM, OKC) are fits. Most other teams addressed their needs in the middle in free agency. He fits in New Orleans but they just committed to Asik. No one in the early stages of a rebuild want him due to his age.

So who are the possible suitors? Boston, Indiana, Portland, Dallas...? Anyone else?

I see why you are trying to include Nene, but I really just think he has negative value. The only reason to include him is if we're taking on bad contracts in return. But since Sacramento just ridded themselves of their two bad contracts (Thompson and Landry), I think Nene is off the table.

As far as teams who would want Gortat, I think BOS, IND, NYK, LAL, DAL and NOP make the most sense. I haven't really looked at their teams to see who could give Sacramento the best package back for Gortat.

I think Portland makes the most sense - unless they go full tank mode. They don't have to, because they have probably the most underrated backcourt in the NBA with Lillard and CJ McCollum - who came on like a stud towards the end of last season. They just have Plumlee and Leonard at center - that's not going to work in the short-term. And they can trade Vonleh because they got Ed Davis.

[Dat2U]

Fair enough. I was trying to use Nene as the cap ballast to send to Sacto because Karl loves and likely overvalues him; then wanted to trade Gortat to bring us some of the help we need.

Part of the issue with Gortat is that as the market stands right now, as good and valuable as he is, not a lot of teams would want him or they couldn't afford him. None of the West's elite (Spurs, GSW, LAC, HOU, MEM, OKC) are fits. Most other teams addressed their needs in the middle in free agency. He fits in New Orleans but they just committed to Asik. No one in the early stages of a rebuild want him due to his age.

So who are the possible suitors? Boston, Indiana, Portland, Dallas...? Anyone else?

I see why you are trying to include Nene, but I really just think he has negative value. The only reason to include him is if we're taking on bad contracts in return. But since Sacramento just ridded themselves of their two bad contracts (Thompson and Landry), I think Nene is off the table.

As far as teams who would want Gortat, I think BOS, IND, NYK, LAL, DAL and NOP make the most sense. I haven't really looked at their teams to see who could give Sacramento the best package back for Gortat.

I think Portland makes the most sense - unless they go full tank mode. They don't have to, because they have probably the most underrated backcourt in the NBA with Lillard and CJ McCollum - who came on like a stud towards the end of last season. They just have Plumlee and Leonard at center - that's not going to work in the short-term. And they can trade Vonleh because they got Ed Davis.

If I'm Portland, I wouldn't trade Vonleh... he took a big step forward this offseason. Looks bigger, more confident and his shot looks smoother. He's worked on his game. It might not be too long before he passes the low-skilled Ed Davis on the depth chart.

[fishercob]

Fair enough. I was trying to use Nene as the cap ballast to send to Sacto because Karl loves and likely overvalues him; then wanted to trade Gortat to bring us some of the help we need.

Part of the issue with Gortat is that as the market stands right now, as good and valuable as he is, not a lot of teams would want him or they couldn't afford him. None of the West's elite (Spurs, GSW, LAC, HOU, MEM, OKC) are fits. Most other teams addressed their needs in the middle in free agency. He fits in New Orleans but they just committed to Asik. No one in the early stages of a rebuild want him due to his age.

So who are the possible suitors? Boston, Indiana, Portland, Dallas...? Anyone else?

I see why you are trying to include Nene, but I really just think he has negative value. The only reason to include him is if we're taking on bad contracts in return. But since Sacramento just ridded themselves of their two bad contracts (Thompson and Landry), I think Nene is off the table.

As far as teams who would want Gortat, I think BOS, IND, NYK, LAL, DAL and NOP make the most sense. I haven't really looked at their teams to see who could give Sacramento the best package back for Gortat.

NOP and NYK just signed Asik and RoLo to long term deals, so I don't see them as giving up much for Gortat. The Lakers have Hibbert for a year and I'd be surprised to see them give up a young asset for Gortat, but maybe I'm wrong there; I'll come back to them.

Indy could give us enough to enable us to give up Oubre:

Pacers trade: Hill, Miles, filler (S. HIll?) for Gortat, Sessions and McLemore
Kings trade Cousins and McLemore for Beal, Oubre, Webster, S. Hill and our '16 first
Wiz trade: Gortat + Beal + Webster + Sessions + 16 pick for Cousins + G. Hill + Miles

You could make a cleaner trade with the Lakers:

LAL trades: Randle, N. Young, Kelly for Gortat + McLemore
Sacto trades Cousins + McLemore for Beal + Randle + Young +16 Wiz pick
Wiz trade: Beal + Gortat + 16 pick for Cousins + Ryan Kelly

And then we just lean on Anderson, Neal, Dudley, Webster, Temple and Oubre for SGBC?

Probably makes sense for a year and then we can go get someone if need be after KD signs

[payitforward]

I see why you are trying to include Nene, but I really just think he has negative value. The only reason to include him is if we're taking on bad contracts in return. But since Sacramento just ridded themselves of their two bad contracts (Thompson and Landry), I think Nene is off the table.

As far as teams who would want Gortat, I think BOS, IND, NYK, LAL, DAL and NOP make the most sense. I haven't really looked at their teams to see who could give Sacramento the best package back for Gortat.

I think Portland makes the most sense - unless they go full tank mode. They don't have to, because they have probably the most underrated backcourt in the NBA with Lillard and CJ McCollum - who came on like a stud towards the end of last season. They just have Plumlee and Leonard at center - that's not going to work in the short-term. And they can trade Vonleh because they got Ed Davis.

If I'm Portland, I wouldn't trade Vonleh... he took a big step forward this offseason. Looks bigger, more confident and his shot looks smoother. He's worked on his game. It might not be too long before he passes the low-skilled Ed Davis on the depth chart.

Vonleh absolutely killed it in SL, for whatever that means, scoring 69 points on 43 shots and 21 FTAs for a .65 TS%, while averaging 12 boards per 40 minutes.

I'm just realizing what Portland has done this off-season, and it's kind of amazing. 4 of their 5 starters from last year are gone, and other than Lillard & Kamen, the total minutes still on the team from last year = @2700. It'll be fascinating to see how they do this season.

[Ruzious]

I think Portland makes the most sense - unless they go full tank mode. They don't have to, because they have probably the most underrated backcourt in the NBA with Lillard and CJ McCollum - who came on like a stud towards the end of last season. They just have Plumlee and Leonard at center - that's not going to work in the short-term. And they can trade Vonleh because they got Ed Davis.

If I'm Portland, I wouldn't trade Vonleh... he took a big step forward this offseason. Looks bigger, more confident and his shot looks smoother. He's worked on his game. It might not be too long before he passes the low-skilled Ed Davis on the depth chart.

Vonleh absolutely killed it in SL, for whatever that means, scoring 69 points on 43 shots and 21 FTAs for a .65 TS%, while averaging 12 boards per 40 minutes.

I'm just realizing what Portland has done this off-season, and it's kind of amazing. 4 of their 5 starters from last year are gone, and other than Lillard & Kamen, the total minutes still on the team from last year = @2700. It'll be fascinating to see how they do this season.

Yup. Maybe they play Ed Davis at center - using the theory of playing their best players - even if they might be out of position. Like I said, I think McCollum's going to be a bust-out player this season - a good get for fantasy players.

[gambitx777]

The Cav's are apparently getting desperate to get something out of Hayword before cutting him for nothing. Blair and webby for haywood works, and save them tax bucks. They can cut blair and save more money. Webby would be a rotation player for them, they are pretty slim on the wing, plus he is cheap and they can cut him in any of the ways we could and save money at any point in time. That way they get something and can move webby later or whatever, and hell! give them a second if they want it. That saves us from paying webby and Blair a dime and we open up two badly needed spots on the team to bring in some big bodies or some stretch bigs.

[Earth2Ted]

You could make a cleaner trade with the Lakers:

LAL trades: Randle, N. Young, Kelly for Gortat + McLemore
Sacto trades Cousins + McLemore for Beal + Randle + Young +16 Wiz pick
Wiz trade: Beal + Gortat + 16 pick for Cousins + Ryan Kelly

And then we just lean on Anderson, Neal, Dudley, Webster, Temple and Oubre for SGBC?

Probably makes sense for a year and then we can go get someone if need be after KD signs

Here's a 3 way involving Dallas:

Wiz trade: Gortat, Beal, Porter
Wiz get: Cousins, Omri Casspi, David Stockton

Sac trades: Cousins, McLemore, Casspi, Stockton
Sac gets: Beal, Porter, Chandler Parsons

Dal trades: Chandler Parsons
Dal gets: Gortat, McLemore

Trade would have to wait until December 15 as Casspi was just signed.

I think this is not a bad deal for Sac. Dallas I'm not sure they go for it if they are looking to rebuild, we might need to throw in draft picks for them.

[verbal8]

The Cav's are apparently getting desperate to get something out of Hayword before cutting him for nothing. Blair and webby for haywood works, and save them tax bucks. They can cut blair and save more money. Webby would be a rotation player for them, they are pretty slim on the wing, plus he is cheap and they can cut him in any of the ways we could and save money at any point in time. That way they get something and can move webby later or whatever, and hell! give them a second if they want it. That saves us from paying webby and Blair a dime and we open up two badly needed spots on the team to bring in some big bodies or some stretch bigs.

I think they would rather have a TPE than Webster. I think the most likely resolution is they trade Haywood and a 2nd to the Sixers or another team with the cap space.

[J-Ves]

I see alot of Cousins trade proposals, most of them consist of some combination of these assets to SAC in return for Cousins:
Beal, Porter, Oubre, Wiz '16 pick, Gortat.
I propose a Realgm wide trade proposal using ALL of these assets. In addition to posting here I will also post on the Kings trade board(assuming they have one) and the Trades and Transactions board to gauge the interest of Wiz fans and non-Wiz fans alike. The meat of the deal would be:
To Wiz: Cousins
To SAC: Beal, Porter, Oubre, Wiz '16 first, mid round '16 first from Gortat trade
To 3rd team: Gortat

Why for Wiz: The ultimate goal would be to sign KD in 2016 to create a big three capable of being true finals contenders for years to come.
Why for Sac: When they decide to trade Cousins they will be in full rebuild mode. This gives them a great start towards the future
Why for 3rd team: This phantom team is in win now mode and is looking for a quality starting center on a reasonable long term deal

I expect most Wiz fans (myself included) will find this too steep a price for Cousins. I would much rather have Porter or Oubre still on the roster. This trade proposal is mainly to get a dialog going to see if there is actual interest from both fandoms and to see if other NBA fans think this trade is fair.

[gambitx777]

The Cav's are apparently getting desperate to get something out of Hayword before cutting him for nothing. Blair and webby for haywood works, and save them tax bucks. They can cut blair and save more money. Webby would be a rotation player for them, they are pretty slim on the wing, plus he is cheap and they can cut him in any of the ways we could and save money at any point in time. That way they get something and can move webby later or whatever, and hell! give them a second if they want it. That saves us from paying webby and Blair a dime and we open up two badly needed spots on the team to bring in some big bodies or some stretch bigs.

I think they would rather have a TPE than Webster. I think the most likely resolution is they trade Haywood and a 2nd to the Sixers or another team with the cap space.

I know they would rather have a TPE, But if not team is willing to give them one they might settle for some tax relief with depth rather than just cutting him for nothing at all.

[LyricalRico]

The Cav's are apparently getting desperate to get something out of Hayword before cutting him for nothing. Blair and webby for haywood works, and save them tax bucks. They can cut blair and save more money. Webby would be a rotation player for them, they are pretty slim on the wing, plus he is cheap and they can cut him in any of the ways we could and save money at any point in time. That way they get something and can move webby later or whatever, and hell! give them a second if they want it. That saves us from paying webby and Blair a dime and we open up two badly needed spots on the team to bring in some big bodies or some stretch bigs.

I think they would rather have a TPE than Webster. I think the most likely resolution is they trade Haywood and a 2nd to the Sixers or another team with the cap space.

I know they would rather have a TPE, But if not team is willing to give them one they might settle for some tax relief with depth rather than just cutting him for nothing at all.

For another team, maybe. But seeing that Webster wouldn't be super high on their depth chart, and considering that simply cutting Haywood offers the most tax relief, I don't think they'd be interested. And overall, I just think Webster for cap space deals are unrealistic.

If there is a Webster trade, IMO it would be for either a depth big with a similar contract (like Jason Thompson) or in a larger deal that includes a pick for a potential starter at PF (like Taj Gibson or Cody Zeller). Feel free to add other names to those lists, but you get the idea.

[gambitx777]

I think they would rather have a TPE than Webster. I think the most likely resolution is they trade Haywood and a 2nd to the Sixers or another team with the cap space.

I know they would rather have a TPE, But if not team is willing to give them one they might settle for some tax relief with depth rather than just cutting him for nothing at all.

For another team, maybe. But seeing that Webster wouldn't be super high on their depth chart, and considering that simply cutting Haywood offers the most tax relief, I don't think they'd be interested. And overall, I just think Webster for cap space deals are unrealistic.

If there is a Webster trade, IMO it would be for either a depth big with a similar contract (like Jason Thompson) or in a larger deal that includes a pick for a potential starter at PF (like Taj Gibson or Cody Zeller). Feel free to add other names to those lists, but you get the idea.

I agree with you and im not saying we would not have to give Cleveland something like a pick or something of that nature, maybe Thomas. I would love to move webby in a deal for Zeller or someone of that nature. But, I'm not sure it happens. The hornets have not takers on Zeller and we haveno takers on Webby so it at least makes sense. But IDK, you never know right.

[TrustTheProcess]

Any interest in a Beal for Okafor type deal?

[nate33]

Any interest in a Beal for Okafor type deal?

In a vacuum, I think it might be a pretty good gamble for Washington. Beal is about to become much less valuable as a trade asset since he is going to get a big payday in free agency next summer.

Unfortunately, chemistry-wise, it doesn't make a lot of sense. The Wizards already have a pretty good center in Gortat, and they have no one to replace Beal at SG. Furthermore, the Wizards are pursuing Durant so they need to maintain a "win now" stance. Durant wouldn't want to join a team that has to spend a few years developing a young big man.

[payitforward]

Any interest in a Beal for Okafor type deal?

In a vacuum, I think it might be a pretty good gamble for Washington. Beal is about to become much less valuable as a trade asset since he is going to get a big payday in free agency next summer.

Unfortunately, chemistry-wise, it doesn't make a lot of sense. The Wizards already have a pretty good center in Gortat, and they have no one to replace Beal at SG. Furthermore, the Wizards are pursuing Durant so they need to maintain a "win now" stance. Durant wouldn't want to join a team that has to spend a few years developing a young big man.

OTOH, the payroll would go down so much that were Durant to be joining us, we'd have $$ for another good FA -- so maybe we'd still be in "win now mode". Or even more so, given that we don't have a lot of players under contract for next year.

But, would the Sixers even be interested?

[TrustTheProcess]

Any interest in a Beal for Okafor type deal?

In a vacuum, I think it might be a pretty good gamble for Washington. Beal is about to become much less valuable as a trade asset since he is going to get a big payday in free agency next summer.

Unfortunately, chemistry-wise, it doesn't make a lot of sense. The Wizards already have a pretty good center in Gortat, and they have no one to replace Beal at SG. Furthermore, the Wizards are pursuing Durant so they need to maintain a "win now" stance. Durant wouldn't want to join a team that has to spend a few years developing a young big man.

OTOH, the payroll would go down so much that were Durant to be joining us, we'd have $$ for another good FA -- so maybe we'd still be in "win now mode". Or even more so, given that we don't have a lot of players under contract for next year.

But, would the Sixers even be interested?

Still very up in the air, but in my research on the Embiid situation (only so much can be figured out be a regular guy though), I think he and Noel are the future front court.. I can't see Hinkie wanting to slow down the pace of the game so much to rely on a big to be the leading scorer.. whereas, on the Wizards, having Wall's improving jump shot/uncanny ability to get to the rim, combined with KD's all around ability to score, someone like Jah would be a nightmare to deal with in the post.. I think it is a distinct possibility that Hinkie is still in the phase of purely maximizing value on his assets, and drafted Okafor be the go-to guy on the offense to boost his statistics while JoJo is out, with the intention of flipping him for a stud point guard or wing player. I think Beal is the type of well-rounded scorer/perimeter defender that Hinkie would want starting at the 2. I think it would work well both ways.. If Beal continues his steady improvement since he got in the league, and Okafor puts up ROY numbers before the deadline, I'm not sure who would have more value though.

[nate33]

Still very up in the air, but in my research on the Embiid situation (only so much can be figured out be a regular guy though), I think he and Noel are the future front court.. I can't see Hinkie wanting to slow down the pace of the game so much to rely on a big to be the leading scorer.. whereas, on the Wizards, having Wall's improving jump shot/uncanny ability to get to the rim, combined with KD's all around ability to score, someone like Jah would be a nightmare to deal with in the post.. I think it is a distinct possibility that Hinkie is still in the phase of purely maximizing value on his assets, and drafted Okafor be the go-to guy on the offense to boost his statistics while JoJo is out, with the intention of flipping him for a stud point guard or wing player. I think Beal is the type of well-rounded scorer/perimeter defender that Hinkie would want starting at the 2. I think it would work well both ways.. If Beal continues his steady improvement since he got in the league, and Okafor puts up ROY numbers before the deadline, I'm not sure who would have more value though.

I disagree.

I'm open minded to trading Beal for Okafor on the basis of talent, upside and contract, but I think Okafor is a pretty bad fit alongside Wall. Wall is a penetrate-and-dish PG and a pick-and-roll PG. He needs a mobile big man who can either run the pick and roll or pick and pop. Wall's skills are diminished a great deal if he has to play with a big man who can only operate out of the low post. Wall's midrange shot has improved, but he's still one of the worst perimeter shooters in the league among point guards. Okafor is exactly the wrong type of big to pair with Wall.

[verbal8]

Still very up in the air, but in my research on the Embiid situation (only so much can be figured out be a regular guy though), I think he and Noel are the future front court.. I can't see Hinkie wanting to slow down the pace of the game so much to rely on a big to be the leading scorer.. whereas, on the Wizards, having Wall's improving jump shot/uncanny ability to get to the rim, combined with KD's all around ability to score, someone like Jah would be a nightmare to deal with in the post.. I think it is a distinct possibility that Hinkie is still in the phase of purely maximizing value on his assets, and drafted Okafor be the go-to guy on the offense to boost his statistics while JoJo is out, with the intention of flipping him for a stud point guard or wing player. I think Beal is the type of well-rounded scorer/perimeter defender that Hinkie would want starting at the 2. I think it would work well both ways.. If Beal continues his steady improvement since he got in the league, and Okafor puts up ROY numbers before the deadline, I'm not sure who would have more value though.

I disagree.

I'm open minded to trading Beal for Okafor on the basis of talent, upside and contract, but I think Okafor is a pretty bad fit alongside Wall. Wall is a penetrate-and-dish PG and a pick-and-roll PG. He needs a mobile big man who can either run the pick and roll or pick and pop. Wall's skills are diminished a great deal if he has to play with a big man who can only operate out of the low post. Wall's midrange shot has improved, but he's still one of the worst perimeter shooters in the league among point guards. Okafor is exactly the wrong type of big to pair with Wall.

I can definitely see the Sixers being interested in Beal. I think the target for the Wizards should be Noel and a cheap SG replacement. I would probably be most inclined to do this it is looking like Durant is not coming to DC. It does basically hold that cap space for another year.

The really interesting scenario would be to combine acquiring Noel with Cousins and signing Durant. I am not sure how the particulars would look, but I figure it would cost Beal, Porter, Gortat and some future picks.