Official Trade Thread - Part XXXII

[AFM]

I liked Nivek. We totally disagreed on his method of analysis but it was interesting how often our conclusions were the same. I also like nate. We frequently agree in basketball discussions and I appreciate his analysis. But his politics are anathema to me and I don't blame Nivek for bailing. It's a disconcerting situation for an NBA fan board to have a mod who is openly racist in his politics. But I appreciate free speech and pluralism so I believe there should be space for nate's point of view.

But if most of the board agreed with him, I would probably bail too.

Steve,
I'm drunk at a bar, but I want to respond:
I'm harsh on nivek leaving, mostly because I respected him a lot. He was one of the best RealGM posters. No debate.
Him leaving due to politics is really insane to me. But whatever.
Nate is a really good guy. And a great mod.
This board is moderated perfectedly.
Kevin was one of the best at taking complex advanced stats and dumbing it down for the average RealGM user. I hope he comes back.
Nate's politics shouldn't matter.

This really begs the question of what were you doing posting on RealGM at a bar?

#afmwalksintoabarwithaduckonhishead

The best way to get people to talk to you, I've found, is to bury your head in your handheld device and not look up.
I only go to bars with the best wifi in town. I've noticed, women, when they spot the familiar orange and white color scheme on my phone, become incredibly aroused. They start whispering to themselves, "Is that AFM?", "Is he that young RealGM aficionado?", "Is that truly him? It can't be..."

[nate33]

Magic fan here in peace. Would y'all do this? Including your first rounder this year too. Maybe a future 2nd rounder as well. http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hzs455a

I'd make that trade straight up, or maybe throw in a 2nd. No 1st though.

[nate33]

What's all this chatter about the wizards getting Paul George? If they ask for Otto and a 1st, you have to do it right? I would hate losing Otto, but you just have to do it

Yeah, you have to do it.

A statistical case can be made that Porter is better than George, or at least is likely to become better over the next couple of years as he continues to mature. However, even if that is the case (and I'm not saying it is), you still make this trade for cap reasons. Having a perennial All Star owed just $19.5M a year for the next 2 years is better than paying Otto the max.

[gambitx777]

I think Nicholson is going to Brooklyn that deal makes to much sense to me. Nicholson, Thornton and burke and a 2018 unprotected first for bogdanavic makes so much sense for them. They hit the salary floor, Nicholson's on a relatively cheap deal money wise (not value wise), still young and they can make use of him, more than cap they can't give away. They don't have a first until like 2020 so this helps them a ton Burke can stay for cheap or the QO if they like him. And bogdanavic is 27 and while a RFA might coast them.more than they want considering they are in a rebuild. Bogdanavic would fit perfect next to mahinmi and Kelley off the bench. Or play him a SG if you really want to. You have options

[J-Ves]

I think Nicholson is going to Brooklyn that deal makes to much sense to me. Nicholson, Thornton and burke and a 2018 unprotected first for bogdanavic makes so much sense for them. They hit the salary floor, Nicholson's on a relatively cheap deal money wise (not value wise), still young and they can make use of him, more than cap they can't give away. They don't have a first until like 2020 so this helps them a ton Burke can stay for cheap or the QO if they like him. And bogdanavic is 27 and while a RFA might coast them.more than they want considering they are in a rebuild. Bogdanavic would fit perfect next to mahinmi and Kelley off the bench. Or play him a SG if you really want to. You have options

Makes sense from Brooklyn's side, but it's terrible for the Wizards. Picks for rentals is a big no-no and Bogdanavic is a bad defender. We would of used our biggest asset and still would have a massive hole at back up guard.

[Dat2U]

I wouldn't trade for George. Porter is far and away the more effective offensive player at this stage. Porter is proving to be an elite shooter. Outside of Durant he's arguably been the best shooter in the NBA this year. George may be better at creating his own shot but that's less of need with the development of Wall and Beal.

George is a better on ball defender but when looking at age, Porter's consistent improvement and the fact we can lock up Porter for the next 5 years as opposed to having George for 2... I see little reason to risk the chemistry we have now.

I think what makes us so good right now is that we have the best perimeter trio in the league outside of Golden State and Beal & Porter haven't even entered their primes yet. If there is any moves to be made it's to our front court & back court depth.

[Dat2U]

I think Nicholson is going to Brooklyn that deal makes to much sense to me. Nicholson, Thornton and burke and a 2018 unprotected first for bogdanavic makes so much sense for them. They hit the salary floor, Nicholson's on a relatively cheap deal money wise (not value wise), still young and they can make use of him, more than cap they can't give away. They don't have a first until like 2020 so this helps them a ton Burke can stay for cheap or the QO if they like him. And bogdanavic is 27 and while a RFA might coast them.more than they want considering they are in a rebuild. Bogdanavic would fit perfect next to mahinmi and Kelley off the bench. Or play him a SG if you really want to. You have options

Hitting the salary floor means nothing to the Nets. There's no punitive damage for not hitting it. The amount a team is below the salary floor simply gets disbursed among the current roster so there's little impetus for the Nets to take on Nicholson unless the reward is good enough.

Secondly I don't think Bogdanovic is much good. His DRPM is actually significantly worse than Lou Williams. So I don't see how one could knock Lou Will but think Bogdanovic is a good idea. I view him a streaky shooter who uncannily is cold most of the time and can't defend a chair.

[NatP4]

I wouldn't trade for George. Porter is far and away the more effective offensive player at this stage. Porter is proving to be an elite shooter. Outside of Durant he's arguably been the best shooter in the NBA this year. George may be better at creating his own shot but that's less of need with the development of Wall and Beal.

George is a better on ball defender but when looking at age, Porter's consistent improvement and the fact we can lock up Porter for the next 5 years as opposed to having George for 2... I see little reason to risk the chemistry we have now.

I think what makes us so good right now is that we have the best perimeter trio in the league outside of Golden State and Beal & Porter haven't even entered their primes yet. If there is any moves to be made it's to our front court & back court depth.

yeah but, wall beal george is still the 2nd best perimeter trio in the league. our defense would be elite with a lineup of wall beal oubre george.

[Dat2U]

no no no no no, we are not trading Kelly Oubre for reggie F'ing Jackson. this deadline needs to hurry up and end so people can stop. This is the same stuff that people were saying about Otto Brad and Keef not too long ago. Develop talent, do not trade it for stopgap role players.

Hopefully people remember all the things they are saying about Oubre and Satoransky for whenever they break out.

I don't think Oubre should be untouchable and in a vacuum, I think the return on trade suggestion is pretty good. I just don't think Jackson is a fit skill or personality wise with our roster. If Jackson was routed to a third team and we got something decent in return I'd think hard about it.

I don't get it, tbh. Marcus Morris is not a good player. Reggie Jackson makes little sense as a back up PG. We get rid of Nicholson's contract; that's good. But moving Oubre in a deal like this is giving away too much potential development IMO. In essence, at that point we have a team whose youngest player was drafted in 2013.

Your right, Jackson is a bad fit which is why I suggested him being routed to a 3rd team and getting those assets in return. I view Morris as a decent player. He honestly has been better than his brother over the last 2 years until Keef's recent stretch of high quality play. I also think the synergy b/w him and his brother is really good. We would likely the best out of both of them while their together. However Marcus Morris alone would not be enough for me to trade Oubre... It would absolutely depend on the assets Jackson could fetch from a 3rd team.

[stevemcqueen1]

What's all this chatter about the wizards getting Paul George? If they ask for Otto and a 1st, you have to do it right? I would hate losing Otto, but you just have to do it

Yeah, you have to do it.

A statistical case can be made that Porter is better than George, or at least is likely to become better over the next couple of years as he continues to mature. However, even if that is the case (and I'm not saying it is), you still make this trade for cap reasons. Having a perennial All Star owed just $19.5M a year for the next 2 years is better than paying Otto the max.

He's getting a big raise in the summer of 2018 though. Big six year deal like DeMarcus Cousins is going to get. After that point he'll be making way more than Otto.

[Dat2U]

I wouldn't trade for George. Porter is far and away the more effective offensive player at this stage. Porter is proving to be an elite shooter. Outside of Durant he's arguably been the best shooter in the NBA this year. George may be better at creating his own shot but that's less of need with the development of Wall and Beal.

George is a better on ball defender but when looking at age, Porter's consistent improvement and the fact we can lock up Porter for the next 5 years as opposed to having George for 2... I see little reason to risk the chemistry we have now.

I think what makes us so good right now is that we have the best perimeter trio in the league outside of Golden State and Beal & Porter haven't even entered their primes yet. If there is any moves to be made it's to our front court & back court depth.

yeah but, wall beal george is still the 2nd best perimeter trio in the league. our defense would be elite with a lineup of wall beal oubre george.

I'd rather have the younger, still improving player that will be under contract for the next 5 years. George's unwillingness to play the 4 is an additional concern as well.

[stevemcqueen1]

Magic fan here in peace. Would y'all do this? Including your first rounder this year too. Maybe a future 2nd rounder as well. http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hzs455a

Yes. Without the picks.

If no picks I would do a Trey Burke CJ Watson swap.

Eh, we would want Augustin specifically. We need a decent back up PG on an affordable long term deal. Money is our issue.

[pcbothwel]

I wouldn't trade for George. Porter is far and away the more effective offensive player at this stage. Porter is proving to be an elite shooter. Outside of Durant he's arguably been the best shooter in the NBA this year. George may be better at creating his own shot but that's less of need with the development of Wall and Beal.

George is a better on ball defender but when looking at age, Porter's consistent improvement and the fact we can lock up Porter for the next 5 years as opposed to having George for 2... I see little reason to risk the chemistry we have now.

I think what makes us so good right now is that we have the best perimeter trio in the league outside of Golden State and Beal & Porter haven't even entered their primes yet. If there is any moves to be made it's to our front court & back court depth.

yeah but, wall beal george is still the 2nd best perimeter trio in the league. our defense would be elite with a lineup of wall beal oubre george.

I'd rather have the younger, still improving player that will be under contract for the next 5 years. George's unwillingness to play the 4 is an additional concern as well.

So its a 1st round pick and Otto for 4/100M (25 per) vs No pick and George for 19.5M for 1 year, then a 5/200M+ contrac following that (So 6/220M, or 36M per year)... Yeah, Id rather have the younger player who is a better shooter/fit.. that is also 10-12M less per year.

[gambitx777]

I think Nicholson is going to Brooklyn that deal makes to much sense to me. Nicholson, Thornton and burke and a 2018 unprotected first for bogdanavic makes so much sense for them. They hit the salary floor, Nicholson's on a relatively cheap deal money wise (not value wise), still young and they can make use of him, more than cap they can't give away. They don't have a first until like 2020 so this helps them a ton Burke can stay for cheap or the QO if they like him. And bogdanavic is 27 and while a RFA might coast them.more than they want considering they are in a rebuild. Bogdanavic would fit perfect next to mahinmi and Kelley off the bench. Or play him a SG if you really want to. You have options

Makes sense from Brooklyn's side, but it's terrible for the Wizards. Picks for rentals is a big no-no and Bogdanavic is a bad defender. We would of used our biggest asset and still would have a massive hole at back up guard.

Hitting the salary floor means nothing to the Nets. There's no punitive damage for not hitting it. The amount a team is below the salary floor simply gets disbursed among the current roster so there's little impetus for the Nets to take on Nicholson unless the reward is good enough.

Secondly I don't think Bogdanovic is much good. His DRPM is actually significantly worse than Lou Williams. So I don't see how one could knock Lou Will but think Bogdanovic is a good idea. I view him a streaky shooter who uncannily is cold most of the time and can't defend a chair.

Not necessarily, Bogdanavic is a restricted FA so if we really want to keep him we can. Plus we might still be able to move mahinmi, and burke plus getting rid of nicholson frees up 6 mill next year. Bofanavic is not perfect by any means but he does make a good back up stretch 4 next to kelley. the pick makes it worth it for them. They don't have any, so maybe start out offering like 2020 or something like that. So offer a 2020 and a 2017 second they might take it, (cuz they really want picks) if they don't see bogdanavic as a long term part of that team. Like I said he could be a solid bench player for us and hes playing on a bad team, can you imagine him on a good team where he doesn't have to chuck so much! Could be interesting. Plus I like him better that lou because you can play him at the 2 the 3 or the 4 and he is a RA so we could keep him or let him walk hes not just a rental and hes younger than Lou and has better size.

I think Mahinmi to chicago might actually have some weight to it. Mahinmi, (burke if they need the body) and a 2018 first and a 2018 second for rondo and Portis, They need a center and want something out of rondo, they seem to be loosing faith in Portis and getting a first and a second out of the two of them would be a real tempting deal I Imagine. Considering reports are no one is offering anything good for rondo what so ever. We slightly over pay to include a bad contract. We get a decent back up for wall, a young PF, we loose that cap commitment considering rondos deal is not fully guaranteed if we don't want to keep him and its only one more year on it is we do, and we still have smith to back us up at center, you could sign larry saunders!

[80sballboy]

Hilarious. Everybody wants the next Michael Jordan or LeBron coming off the bench. "He sucks on D" "He can't create his own shot" "He's too old" WTF. You're just asking for a good 10-15mpg and you want to dump Andrew Nicholson and Trey Burke to get a young Jamal Crawford? What Lou Williams has done off the bench is incredible. So we don't get him, fine. But we need an upgrade. Not a superstar. An upgrade with a decent contract.

[gambitx777]

Hilarious. Everybody wants the next Michael Jordan or LeBron coming off the bench. "He sucks on D" "He can't create his own shot" "He's too old" WTF. You're just asking for a good 10-15mpg and you want to dump Andrew Nicholson and Trey Burke to get a young Jamal Crawford? What Lou Williams has done off the bench is incredible. So we don't get him, fine. But we need an upgrade. Not a superstar. An upgrade with a decent contract.

I 100% agree with you, we need upgrades to the bench, that means moving expendable pieces to get better players on the bench. That means Mahinmi burke, and nicholson, maybe smith. and two of them might need over pays on the deals to move them but moving the contracts is well worth it im my opinion. Nit picking guys like WIll Barton and Bogdonavic is a bit unnessasary right now when they would be clear cut up grades to this bench unit.

[J-Ves]

yeah but, wall beal george is still the 2nd best perimeter trio in the league. our defense would be elite with a lineup of wall beal oubre george.

I'd rather have the younger, still improving player that will be under contract for the next 5 years. George's unwillingness to play the 4 is an additional concern as well.

So its a 1st round pick and Otto for 4/100M (25 per) vs No pick and George for 19.5M for 1 year, then a 5/200M+ contrac following that (So 6/220M, or 36M per year)... Yeah, Id rather have the younger player who is a better shooter/fit.. that is also 10-12M less per year.

I think a 4 year max to Otto comes out to about $114 million

[gambitx777]

I'd rather have the younger, still improving player that will be under contract for the next 5 years. George's unwillingness to play the 4 is an additional concern as well.

So its a 1st round pick and Otto for 4/100M (25 per) vs No pick and George for 19.5M for 1 year, then a 5/200M+ contrac following that (So 6/220M, or 36M per year)... Yeah, Id rather have the younger player who is a better shooter/fit.. that is also 10-12M less per year.

I think a 4 year max to Otto comes out to about $114 million

Why would we not 5 year him ? That's a big part of the incentive of staying with your team in the first place.

[80sballboy]

Hilarious. Everybody wants the next Michael Jordan or LeBron coming off the bench. "He sucks on D" "He can't create his own shot" "He's too old" WTF. You're just asking for a good 10-15mpg and you want to dump Andrew Nicholson and Trey Burke to get a young Jamal Crawford? What Lou Williams has done off the bench is incredible. So we don't get him, fine. But we need an upgrade. Not a superstar. An upgrade with a decent contract.

I 100% agree with you, we need upgrades to the bench, that means moving expendable pieces to get better players on the bench. That means Mahinmi burke, and nicholson, maybe smith. and two of them might need over pays on the deals to move them but moving the contracts is well worth it im my opinion. Nit picking guys like WIll Barton and Bogdonavic is a bit unnessasary right now when they would be clear cut up grades to this bench unit.

If somebody wants Mahinmi's contract, fine. But if he's healthy, he can really be a valuable asset in the playoffs. I wouldn't give him up unless it's the right deal. We've been looking for a defensive center since Nene left and got old, I would not just give up on him after 4 games.

[gambitx777]

Hilarious. Everybody wants the next Michael Jordan or LeBron coming off the bench. "He sucks on D" "He can't create his own shot" "He's too old" WTF. You're just asking for a good 10-15mpg and you want to dump Andrew Nicholson and Trey Burke to get a young Jamal Crawford? What Lou Williams has done off the bench is incredible. So we don't get him, fine. But we need an upgrade. Not a superstar. An upgrade with a decent contract.

I 100% agree with you, we need upgrades to the bench, that means moving expendable pieces to get better players on the bench. That means Mahinmi burke, and nicholson, maybe smith. and two of them might need over pays on the deals to move them but moving the contracts is well worth it im my opinion. Nit picking guys like WIll Barton and Bogdonavic is a bit unnessasary right now when they would be clear cut up grades to this bench unit.

If somebody wants Mahinmi's contract, fine. But if he's healthy, he can really be a valuable asset in the playoffs. I wouldn't give him up unless it's the right deal. We've been looking for a defensive center since Nene left and got old, I would not just give up on him after 4 games.

Agreed but if you can move him to Chicago and get Rondo and Portis in return for a 2018 first and maybe a 2018 second? I do that deal all day and sign Larry Saunders off the street. You get a solid back up for wall who you can keep, possible cap flexibility, a young big in portis. and Larry Sounders if he is in shape, healthy (mentally and physically), and motivated. He can give you what mahinmi gives you for 15 minutes a game for about 1 - 3 mill a year instead of 15. If We were to sign Larry the smart thing would be to lock him in at 3-4 years 2-3 mill a year or something with team options and bonuses. (remember hes still getting paid form that bucks contract, I think).
I take rondo, Portis and Saunders, while loosings only 1 years picks, over Mahinmi all day.