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Official Trade Thread Part XLVI

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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1401 » by payitforward » Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:58 pm

DCZards wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:It seems that there are three camps (or maybe 3) based upon the entirety of the body of work thus far.

Camp 1: This is an amazing FO
Camp 2: This is a good FO
Camp 3: This is a horrible FO (Tommy/Grunfeld)

Just to clarify, I am in Camp 2.

I’m in a somewhat different camp. I’m in the “This is the right FO for a rebuilding team camp.” I like that this FO has been bold and aggressive when it comes to draft picks and trades.

Right. I do not see how, after 15 months, one could classify as good, bad or indifferent any FO that started where these guys started.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1402 » by doclinkin » Mon Aug 12, 2024 7:22 pm

payitforward wrote:2. We agree that it would have been great to use the #57 in '23 on TJ-D (rather than trading it for PBJ & Rollins). But, literally every team whiffed on TJ-D, so I give them a pass on that -- ie. in comparing them to other FOs. Make sense?


The official NBA site lists the #57 draft pick as part of the Jordan Poole trade.

https://www.nba.com/news/warriors-wizards-trade-jordan-poole-chris-paul

So we either accept the whole trade or not. They may have broken the trade up in parts, but it was agreed to in principle before the fact. I liked TJD, but I think I too would have swapped him for Rollins + Baldwin, both of whom I liked in the draft. I would have been wrong but both were younger than TJD and showed both promise and upside. For a rebuilding team that part seems smart.

Anyway IIRC GSW was trying to clear up roster space at the time, I think the 3-for-1 swap was part of the deal not just for salary match purposes.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1403 » by payitforward » Mon Aug 12, 2024 8:21 pm

Good points, doc. But... if they were trying to clear roster space, then we didn't need to give them the #57 pick! Where they took & guy -- & kept him! :)

As well, I think they backed the folllow-on trade into the cp3<>poole deal for convenience. Still, either way, I see no reason to think we had to go for it in order for them to move Poole for CP3.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1404 » by Frichuela » Fri Aug 30, 2024 5:07 pm

As I posted before, Santi Aldama should be a good get for the Wizards. Glad to see others seeing it the same way...

https://www.bulletsforever.com/2024/8/29/24230689/wizards-santi-aldama-potential-trade-target-memphis-grizzlies-loyola-corey-kispert
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1405 » by penbeast0 » Sun Oct 20, 2024 10:16 pm

If 33 year old Kawhi Leonard rules himself out for the year but refuses to retire so he can still be paid, his salary almost exactly matches Kyle Kuzma + Jordan Poole. Would you trade them for Leonard knowing he has a 3 year deal (as do Kuzma and Poole) and may never play again?
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1406 » by payitforward » Sun Oct 20, 2024 11:33 pm

Great question!

If Kawhi plans not to play for 3 years & still get paid -- which I cannot believe! -- then he's untradable: why would we want him? We'd be better off simply eating Poole's contract while trading Kuz for whatever we could get.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1407 » by penbeast0 » Sun Oct 20, 2024 11:53 pm

I'd pay this price to get Kuzma and Poole off this team personally, even if Kawhi never played again. They seem nice enough, but they represent all the wrong things to young players (shot jacking, defensive slacking, etc.). We have JV and Brogdon for veteran guidance. Heck, we can even bring back Jared Butler :-)
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1408 » by nate33 » Mon Oct 21, 2024 1:38 pm

penbeast0 wrote:I'd pay this price to get Kuzma and Poole off this team personally, even if Kawhi never played again. They seem nice enough, but they represent all the wrong things to young players (shot jacking, defensive slacking, etc.). We have JV and Brogdon for veteran guidance. Heck, we can even bring back Jared Butler :-)

This is a bad idea.

Even if you never wanted Poole or Kuzma on the court again, it is better to simply banish them to the bench. It's preferable to have that salary broken up into two movable contracts, than it is to have it in the form of Kawhi's massive contract. At the very least, Kuzma alone is movable for an expiring contract, leaving us with only Poole's dead weight salary.

Now, if the Clippers were willing to give us some picks in the Kawhi transaction, that's a different story.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1409 » by penbeast0 » Mon Oct 21, 2024 2:54 pm

If I believed they would be banished to the bench, I'd agree with you. But NBA coaches and players fetishize scoring over everything else much of the time, including efficiency and defense. I'd rather see those reps going to Bilal and George at SF, and to Bub and a resigned Jared Butler at PG.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1410 » by nate33 » Mon Oct 21, 2024 3:54 pm

penbeast0 wrote:If I believed they would be banished to the bench, I'd agree with you. But NBA coaches and players fetishize scoring over everything else much of the time, including efficiency and defense. I'd rather see those reps going to Bilal and George at SF, and to Bub and a resigned Jared Butler at PG.

If management can't control its coach, then either management or the coach should be fired. You don't make blatantly bad trades just because you are afraid of what your coach might do with the wrong player on the roster.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1411 » by payitforward » Mon Oct 21, 2024 8:06 pm

Correct.

Meanwhile, with JV, Bagley & Holmes on the roster, it would be nice if we could find a team to give us something for one of our 2 backups. A R2 pick would be enough, I think. Make sense? Any chance of it?
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1412 » by gesa2 » Wed Oct 23, 2024 1:18 am

payitforward wrote:Correct.

Meanwhile, with JV, Bagley & Holmes on the roster, it would be nice if we could find a team to give us something for one of our 2 backups. A R2 pick would be enough, I think. Make sense? Any chance of it?

We can even pick up some bad salary in the trade if it's helpful!
Making extreme statements like "only" sounds like there are "no" Jokics in this draft? Jokic is an engine that was drafted in the 2nd round. Always a chance to see diamond dropped by sloppy burgular after a theft.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1413 » by penbeast0 » Wed Oct 23, 2024 4:49 pm

I was looking at trades; both Holmes and Bagley are pretty expensive which makes them hard to deal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1414 » by doclinkin » Thu Oct 24, 2024 1:08 am

penbeast0 wrote:I was looking at trades; both Holmes and Bagley are pretty expensive which makes them hard to deal.


Actually it can be the exact opposite under the current CBA. Teams that are into the 2nd apron can't consolidate multiple players in a 2-for-1 type deal. These are the teams that are most desperate to deal. They want to ship as much big budget salary as they can in a single lump. If they can't ship it out they get nasty tax penalties, can't use the MLE or trade exceptions, their draft picks are frozen etc. The penalties get worse if they are repeat offenders. We are looking at: Boston Celtics, Milwaukee Bucks, Minnesota Timberwolves, Phoenix Suns, and the Lakers are like 45,000 below the line.

A guy like Holmes has a non guaranteed contract after this year. Bagwell is expiring. Any 2nd apron team who has an underperforming player signed for equivalent $ but longer years will be hungry to dump as much salary as they can. They want the biggest expiring contract that is coming off the books to give them breathing room in the out years.

Brogdon is the big fish with his $22m expiring deal, but Holmes, Bags, Davis, Gill, and PBJr are all able to be off the books next year. Kuzma has a big deal with a couple more years on it, but it declines every year. Of this group I'd bet only Bags has a chance to be on the team next year. At a decent re-sign value. The others I expect will be actively shopped for draft capital.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1415 » by chrbal » Fri Oct 25, 2024 1:04 am

penbeast0 wrote:I was looking at trades; both Holmes and Bagley are pretty expensive which makes them hard to deal.



You could probably combine, say, Holmes and Davis in a 3 team trade. They go to some team looking to clear a salary or so. Wizards get some salary dumps offs, some other team gets “the reason for the trade” players.

I assume Jonas gets traded to the lakers this season.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1416 » by dckingsfan » Fri Oct 25, 2024 5:21 pm

nate33 wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:I'd pay this price to get Kuzma and Poole off this team personally, even if Kawhi never played again. They seem nice enough, but they represent all the wrong things to young players (shot jacking, defensive slacking, etc.). We have JV and Brogdon for veteran guidance. Heck, we can even bring back Jared Butler :-)

This is a bad idea.

Even if you never wanted Poole or Kuzma on the court again, it is better to simply banish them to the bench. It's preferable to have that salary broken up into two movable contracts, than it is to have it in the form of Kawhi's massive contract. At the very least, Kuzma alone is movable for an expiring contract, leaving us with only Poole's dead weight salary.

Now, if the Clippers were willing to give us some picks in the Kawhi transaction, that's a different story.

I am with you on that one. Worse comes to worse, you just have Kuzma and Poole through the '26-'27 season and let them expire.

If a team is willing to part with draft assets, then it is a different matter. That goes with Jonas, Brogdon, Holmes and Bagley as well. Take bad contracts if and only if you are getting reasonable draft assets with the goal of being competitive in '27-'28.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1417 » by dckingsfan » Fri Oct 25, 2024 5:21 pm

chrbal wrote:...I assume Jonas gets traded to the lakers this season.

How do you see that trade going down?
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1418 » by chrbal » Sat Oct 26, 2024 3:30 am

dckingsfan wrote:
chrbal wrote:...I assume Jonas gets traded to the lakers this season.

How do you see that trade going down?


Honestly it’s more that I feel like the Lakers were interested in him and could see the Wizards shop him at his contract. No idea on the trade though.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1419 » by Jay81 » Sun Oct 27, 2024 7:58 am

Denver needs players badly

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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVI 

Post#1420 » by Dark Faze » Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:46 pm

Jay81 wrote:Denver needs players badly

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They'd love to have Kispert I'm sure given their need for shooting, particularly on a cheap contract.

The question is what they would be willing to offer up for him? Probably just second rounders.

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