The Javale McGee Appreciation Thread

[hands11]

QFT. Javalee's never played for a great coach. I've never felt Javale was lazy, the issues I see are concentration, physicality and maturity. He's made progress in all of those areas.

I don't think there's a chance Javale has a contract that's for less annual salary than D. Jordan's. Teams are going to want spend money in 2012 and Javale is going to be a target. With increased opportunities in the post his FTA's are going to go up and if he starts hitting them he could end up averaging 15, 10 and 3.

If I could lock him down now I would. 3 things, I don't think there are character issues with him, he's going to get more money in the open market and the new cap structure is going to be so brutal that any cap savings will help.

I posted an article about him and his family a few pages back and only saw one or two comments which is shocking considering what the article said. JaVales problems are mental, emotional and maturity and Pam had a lot to do with that. The lady needs to back off and let the young man grow up on his own outside her shadow. I think he will continue to mature but the kid has mental things he needs to overcome ( as do a lot of people ). A lot of basketball is mental. You have to get your mind right to excel at the highest level.

As for having the coaches, there are six coaches and NBA players on and off the team to help him. Like with Dray not coming into camp in shape, it on JaVale to do what he needs to do first. The resources are there. Until he does that, pointing to extra things people could do is clueless. If anything the piece Ted needs to add to the staff is a therapist. There are a lot of minds on this team that need work. They have coaches already.

Other NBA team may on one hand see Pam as a way to get JaVale if they tell her the right things but on the other hand, I'm sure they see her as a pain in the rss that will tarnish their franchises name if she doesn't like what is happening. She has already proven she will do that. So she won't through a player under the bus but she will through a franchise under the bus? And besides, she did through a player under the bus and it was her son. She made him look like a weak minded punk with a dysfunctional family that has an over barring mother who loves the mic. I guess she still wants to be in front of the cameras. I think what he did was stupid and selfish.

She had her day. The only reason anyone puts a mic in front of her mouth now is because of her son. She needs to check her ego and STFU. It isn't about her anymore.

[sfam]

Here is this summer's list of FA Centers worth noting (Howard/Bynum not included)
Roy Hibbert, Indiana Pacers – $2.6 million – Restricted
Brook Lopez, New Jersey Nets – $3.1 million – Restricted
Greg Monroe, Detroit Pistons – $3.0 million – Team Option
JaVale McGee, Washington Wizards – $2.5 million – Restricted
Robin Lopez, Phoenix Suns – $2.8 million – Restricted

Chris Kaman, New Orleans Hornets – $12.7 million – Unrestricted
Marcus Camby, Portland Trail Blazers – $12.9 million – Unrestricted

If we are to offer deal similar to D Jordan (4 years for $43m) to the first 5 on this list, what would be order of who'd you target?

That's a lot of decent options, and gives me confidence that the Wizards will probably be able to keep McGee if they want. I'd imagine Hibbert and Monroe stay, although I'm less sure of the Lopez brothers. I do agree with CCJ though - if McGee accepts 10M a year, we do that right now. I just don't think he'll do that.

McGee is clearly not Blatche. He has some real knucklehead issues on occasion, but being a hard worker isn't one of them - its all mental. Moreso, he really looks like he's made real strides this year. If he can just cut out about 5 goaltends a game, I'll be really pleased with him. But he's clearly going to command at least 10M a season, and is worth that.

[hands11]

I just read where Pam sits three row back behind the basket on the Wizards side of the floor every game and takes notes.

I could only imagine trying to coach a team where McGee is my starting center and trying to coach the kid with this lady as his mother sitting off to my right underminding my coaching..

One of two things needs to happen.

1) JaVale needs to have a sit down with his mother and tell her to stop showing up and to tops giving interviews. This is his career and she is not helping.

2) They need to get ride of him.

There is not another mother of a player in the league that I can think of who is doing what she is doing. It isn't professional. My mom doesn't butt into my professional life. She doesn't watch me work and then tell my boss and owner what they are doing wrong publically. No team is going to want to deal with this lady. She is not part of the coaching staff, team or ownership. Go away Pam. You are making a fool out of your talented child and disrespecting him, his team, and his bosses. And you are lowering his contract value.

But JaVale is the one I really blame. I brought this up during the slam dunk contest. He has not only allowed this, he has invited her into his NBA world by making her a part his first big NBA stage.

Look. I wanted them to draft the kid and I have been a long time supporter in them keeping him and seeing where things go. Well now I see more of the big picture surround JaVale and I have been reminded of a key part of why he isn't on the same page as the coaches. Like most players it is more then physical talent you have to consider. As long as Pam is who she is and involved the way she is, I don't won't JaVale here long term. The McGee's = dysfunctional and unprofessional. Like I didn't think this team could take on a Cousins, I don't think the McGee's are good for this team either.

So Dray is slatted to get moved. I say JaVale is on the bubble with one foot out. And likely Nick also. That would clean house. But none where high picks and they got use out of all of them.

Shame. JaVale is a talented kid but I just can't stand the his mother and her involvement. How messed up is that to even have to consider a players mother when considering his place on your team.

[Ruzious]

Hands, it was Moses that gave Hakeem pointers - not the other way around. Here's a quote from Wikipedia:

Olajuwon played sparingly as a redshirt freshman in 1981–82, and the Cougars were eliminated in the Final Four by the eventual NCAA champion, North Carolina Tar Heels. Olajuwon sought advice from the coaching staff about how to increase his playing time, and they advised him to work out with local Houston resident and multiple NBA MVP winner, Moses Malone. Malone, who was then a center on the NBA's Houston Rockets, played games every off season with several NBA players at the Fonde Recreation Center. Olajuwon joined the workouts and went head to head with Malone in several games throughout the summer. Olajuwon credited this experience with rapidly improving his game: "The way Moses helped me is by being out there playing and allowing me to go against that level of competition. He was the best center in the NBA at the time, so I was trying to improve my game against the best."

Olajuwon returned from that summer a different player, and in his sophomore and junior years he helped the Cougars advance to consecutive NCAA championship games, where they lost to North Carolina State on a last second tip-in in 1983 and a Patrick Ewing-led Georgetown team in 1984. Olajuwon won the 1983 NCAA Tournament Player of the Year award, even though he played for the losing team in the final game.

The development of a team's players is on both the team and the player - regardless of who foots the bill. The team is in the business of developing players and should logically have a helluvalot more knowledge about it than some kid. Therefore, it's incumbent on the team to be proactive.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Keynote

Good points. Got me thinking.

Who trained Hakeem, Jabbar, Magic, Bird, MJ, etc, etc.

For the record, Hakeem gave Moses Malone credit for vastly improving his skills one summer when Hakeem was at the U of Houston and Moses was a Houston Rocket. Alcindor had the greatest college coach of all time. Magic and Bird were already phenoms. MJ had an all-time great coach in Dean Smith. Javale is obviously way way way wayyyyy behind the curve compared to those guys and probably any other HOFers you want to bring up. He didn't do the developing that those guys did in college.

Thanks for detailing that more. I honestly didn't know the answer. That is interesting and highlights things further.

You say Hakeem gave Moses pointers. Doesn't sound like any team arranged that. They took it upon themselves. But Moses was a big name coming out of high school like LeBron was. McGee was not that. Others learned in college. Well, if a player comes out early so they don't get the training they would have otherwise received for free so they can cash in and get paid now by an owner of an NBA team, then they have the money to pay for their own continued training on that NBA owner dime (which is what the team told his agent). These NBA teams also have people on staff ( they are paying for ) So the player should have to money for any additional training they need. The owner is already paying twice. Sounds to me like an NBA player like McGee wants his cake and he wants to eat it too. Ted is already paying ( twice ). This is just one more reason players should stay in school at least two years.

Beyond the money he is getting paid for coming out early before his free training was completed, and the coaches Ted is already paying to train the players, why spend more on a kid that won't even listen to the basics the coaches they have are telling him ? Doesn't JaVale have an obligation to prove himself at a certain level first ? Even D Howard didn't get that kind of extra help in his first two years. Is anyone suggesting that in year 1 or 2 that the Wizards should have hired one of these top names to train JaVale ? He was a project and they had coaches. I would guess at that point in time, those names wouldn't have even bothered with him. Who was JaVale two years ago but a young long kid that could jump.

Another point that was recently mentioned here that I have been thinking about for a while is.. the Wiz couldn't hire an additional specific coach just for McGee this last summer even if they wanted. Maybe after 3 years in the league they see him as developing more of the basics and would have be ready to dish out even more to train him. Who knows. They couldn't do it.

Vesely is a little different. He had more basketball experience. He wa a proven hard worker and he was drafted 6th, not 18th. And for that they hired a shooting coach not someone to teach him the basics of playing basketball or defense. I don't see them hiring a special coach for their 18th pick this year with was Singleton though I hope he is working with that same shooting coach.

JaVale/Pam did what they should have done in a CBA contract year and year 4 of his development. They took some of that $2,462,399 Ted is paying them and hired someone to expand his game. Good. That was smart. That is what they should have done. Complaining about it is stupid and bad PR. What they should have done was simply point out that he did do this. Then the story would have read much better.

JaVale hires personal big man coach to expand his game. That shows maturity, commitment and professionalism. If they left it at that, maybe people would start to not see him as a knuckhead and his mother as a mouthy over barring pain in the rss. Maybe the team would see the result of that and pick up the bill for the next coach. She went about this all wrong. JaVale did something good and she played it all wrong. Next thing JaVale needs to do it take some of the 2.5M and hire a PR person. It would pay for itself in his next contract.

Flip benching Javale the rest of the game was stupid. McGee stayed in the game a while, but Flip kept him on the bench of what turned out to be a tight game, even when Blatche was getting beat for layups and the team could have used a spark. Flip expounding on McGee's dunk was going public.

Pam McGee didn't go public until national media called her son a knucklehead. Mike Lee of WaPo says it was embarrassing. Kelly Dwyer of Yahoo took it to the nation, not just local media. Jason Reid of the WaPo included McGee in with Young and Blatche saying they need to go.

Flip needs to go. A better coach would win more game and would also know how to deflect and suppress needless bad press.

McGee's mother expressed her feelings and came to the defense of her son only after this knucklehead of a coach was unwise--my opinion. A 23-yr old doesn't think old school. He wasn't dunking to bring attention to himself. McGee clearly was trying to pump the team up and he got the team to within 4 points. I had absolutely no problem with that dunk. Even if MOST DISAGREE WITH ME I think the best thing Flip could have done is shown his player some love and had his back.

Pam McGee is right about the Wizards organization. She is no more unwise in going public than Flip.

[hands11]

But aren't the teams already flipping the bill ?

These plays come out early and makes millions. The owner pays for that.
The owners are also paying for NBA level coaches and supporting coaches.

Now the quality of those coaches are a topic to discus but it isn't like they are not there.
I think every NBA team should have coaching on staff capable of teaching shooting, FT shooter, posting up, etc. Personally I think they should also have a mind coach. That is what someone like Phil Jackson was but all head coaches are not that.

But it isn't like they are not paying to teach these players.
The rest is up to them. They are getting paid millions to come out early.

McGee did the right thing to get a coach during the CBA negations. The problem was having his mother complain about it.

Put down the video game controller.
Get some rest. Take the cotton out of your ears and put in the work.
You wanta be great. Put in the work.

McGee's slow development is his own fault. Nobody elses.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

hands, I have thouught the exact same things. What about expanding the kids' minds? I agree 100% that Phil Jackson did just that, but from what I have seen the vast majority of coaches do not.

I also agree with you that the NBA is giving young, underdeveloped players who come out early millions and the NBA SHOULD make sure there are good coaches for these players. They don't teach, however.

As far as McGee goes, he works HARD is my opinion. The kid plays his heart out and he works HARD.

[tontoz]

At least now McGee has go to post moves. he has been effective with the hook and if they overplay it then he has the drop step. I don't remember him doing this early last season.

[fugop]

McGee is among the leaders in minutes played among true centers. Only Dwight Howard, Marc Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Tysoin Chandler, Andrew Bogut, Deandre Jordan, and Marcin Gortat are playing more than McGee's 29.9 minutes. Hibbert is close at 29.4.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Back on draft day I wanted Hibbert.

Honestly, I think Javale's just as good if not better than Hibbert. Their stats are really close, but McGee doesn't have that good a team around him.

[dobrojim]

hands, I have thouught the exact same things. What about expanding the kids' minds? I agree 100% that Phil Jackson did just that, but from what I have seen the vast majority of coaches do not.

I also agree with you that the NBA is giving young, underdeveloped players who come out early millions and the NBA SHOULD make sure there are good coaches for these players. They don't teach, however.

As far as McGee goes, he works HARD is my opinion. The kid plays his heart out and he works HARD.

Kareem had his own way of expanding his mind that I'm not sure
I would recommend for Javale

Back on draft day I wanted Hibbert.

along with a bunch of us here on the board. IND took him just before
we could have. Just like IND took Reggie Miller right before we would have.

[pancakes3]

with mcgee's asthma? probably not. however, i'm not sure reading multiple books on zen buddhism will be any more beneficial.

[dobrojim]

I wasn't thinking of anything smoked, more like ingested in tiny quantities

mind altering

[hands11]

hands, I have thouught the exact same things. What about expanding the kids' minds? I agree 100% that Phil Jackson did just that, but from what I have seen the vast majority of coaches do not.

I also agree with you that the NBA is giving young, underdeveloped players who come out early millions and the NBA SHOULD make sure there are good coaches for these players. They don't teach, however.

As far as McGee goes, he works HARD is my opinion. The kid plays his heart out and he works HARD.

Well at least we have uncovered some more common ground. They do need more mind and modivation coaches. Specially for players that have mental barriers. Gil was one of them. Gil could have been HOF material. McGee has them also. If you read that story I posted on JaVale growing up and you watch his mother today, you can see what his issues are if you are educated in phycology and family systems.

I do agree that McGee "can be" a hard worker in some areas and at some moments. But I don't believe he is a " good listener " If he was, he could have progressed more quickly. Like most immature people, they want to gold right away and they want to do it their way. They don't want to dig for the gold where and how you tell them.

Actually in some ways, I actually agress with Pam. I think JaVale is an absolute freak. He "could" redefine the position. He "could" have an outside game eventually. But he missed was how to get there the fastest. That was to do what was expected of him first. Establish that. Then expand it from there. It is an NBA career, not a season.

As for the knuckhead lable. The dunk didn't create that lable. We have been saying that about him for years. One event does not a knuckhead makith

[Zonkerbl]

Saw Hibbert playing for the pacers as they beat LA. Boy does he look miles ahead of McGee, I tell you what.

[llcc25]

Saw Hibbert playing for the pacers as they beat LA. Boy does he look miles ahead of McGee, I tell you what.

100% agree. I think playing for G-town has something to do with it but clearly his development from year 1 to now is further along than McGee. He just flat out knows how to play the post position better. I even saw IND last night's game against ORL. He didn't have as good a game (only 5-16 from field) but still scored 16 pts and had 12 rebounds. 6 for 6 from free throw line. The more impressive thing was what he held Howard in check at 14 pts 9 rebounds.

[theboomking]

McGee is just clueless on defense. Look at how much Wall has improved on defense from his rookie to his second year, and then look at McGee. He looks like the same player on defense. He blocks a ton of shots, but is also constantly out of position, doesn't rotate well, and suffers from a general lack of awareness, nevermind all of the goaltending, which may have improved from last year.

I still think we ought to trade McGee for a lotto pick, and try to sign a decent defensive center in FA. This team would be so much better off with the 10th pick in 2012 and someone like Dalembert or Hibbert than it is with McGee.

For all of the people who point at Tyson Chandler as what McGee could become, I'd say so what. Chandler isn't that great. He had one great year as the defensive anchor on a loaded team. If Chandler was so good, then a team with Melo, Amare and Chandler should be a better than .500 team, and would be a better defensive team, even with a coach like D'antoni.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

McGee isn't as big as Roy Hibbert and he doesn't operate in the post with the same strong base.

I have not watched Hibbert play but apparently he has made a huge improvement this season. His PER went from 15.6 to 21.4. His WS/48 has more than doubled this season from last. Roy's FG% is up and his rebounding is way, way up from what he's done over his career. Each season he has fouled less. If the Wizards want to bid high on Hibbert this offseason, that would seem to be better than bidding high on Javale.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2012/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2012/

McGee probably has a higher ceiling for improvement than Roy Hibbert because Javale is much more athletic and a little younger. If Roy can improve from age 25 to 26, the same is possible for McGee who just turned 24. I said way back Javale would never develop a post game and was wrong. My question is how much stronger McGee will get. If he gets significantly stronger he could really improve a lot.

What has Hibbert done to improve so much?

[DCZards]

100% agree. I think playing for G-town has something to do with it but clearly his development from year 1 to now is further along than McGee. He just flat out knows how to play the post position better. I even saw IND last night's game against ORL. He didn't have as good a game (only 5-16 from field) but still scored 16 pts and had 12 rebounds. 6 for 6 from free throw line. The more impressive thing was what he held Howard in check at 14 pts 9 rebounds.

Being a big man and playing for G'Town certainly has it benefits. But, I suspect, most of the learning/growth takes place during the summer when, at least in past years, Ewing, Mourning, Mutombo, Harrington, etc., would all return to campus and workout (or should I say bang) with current players.

I'm impressed by the improvement that G'Town's current big, Henry Simms, has made this year. Word is Othella Harrington, who is now a Hoya assistant, has a lot to do with Simms' improvement.

[Nivek]

Just look at the numbers, Hibbert's biggest improvement is in his shooting. He's a lot better this season in the 3-9 foot range. That plus better offensive rebounding and a slight uptick in assists has his offensive rating up to 106 -- from a subpar 100 last season.