2012 NBA Draft - Part V

[DCfan88]

I feel if Beal is gone at pick 2 then we should aim for Dion Waiters. Maybe a trade down or something but i feel he should be our second option if we arent able to land beal. I also like Terrance Ross as well.

[The Consiglieri]

why would we take Barnes when MKG is the better player? If this trade goes down which it will...either draft MKG at 3 or trade the pick for 6 and 11

The word on the street is that were morons, and would view the 3 spot as no longer nearly as essential as landing Beal, or Barnes to add a quality jump shooter to the team. Apparently the presence of the greatness of Ariza renders all that MKG could add moot. This is of course, the stupidest idea in the history of life, or maybe in the case of the Wizards, just the second stupidest this week, but it still appears to be the prevailing wisdom of a team lacking plenty thereof.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I've never seen Crowder play. Maybe there's something you see that needs to be seen to be understood, but looking at his stats (2P%, 3P%, FT%, FG/G, 3FG/G, FT/G) I don't see how he's lumped in with MKG. Crowder's shooting stats look more on par with Beal's shooting stats. I can understand why you wouldn't want Crowder for a SF after picking MKG, because there would be quite a crowd fighting for minutes there (and really everywhere in the frontcourt).

I saw Crowder play a lot at Marquette. He was essentiallly a PF for them, getting a lot of his shots in close and on offensive rebounds. Thus his good FG%. Crowder is only 6'4 and won't get those easy inside baskets in the NBA. In fact, at that size, he'll probabaly have to learn to play SG at the next level.

Crowder is a good three point shooter but his midrange shot and ability to take people off the dribble is mediocre, imo.

monte, the stats back you up.

I am fascinated by the hit-or-miss prospects of undersized PFs going to the NBA. Some recent successes have been Paul Millsap, Jared Dudley, and Kenneth Faried. Dudley is the player scouts compare both Jae Crowder and Draymond Green to. In the NCAAs Dudley could hit the three. He was also a very good rebounder.

Looking at Crowder's stats, what impresses me most are his steals with blocks and very few turnovers. His three point shooting is good, but his FG shooting was just below .500. That is hardly elite. Jared Dudley was a much better FG shooter. Stats would suggest what monte said, Crowder might have trouble scoring off the dribble or inside. His footwork and defense should be good.

Looking at Crowder's measurables, he is not blessed with gorilla arms like Draymond Green is. Green, like Kenneth Faried, makes up for what he lacks in height with tremendous standing reach. Crowder graded out real well in agility, but he's short and lacks vertical reach. He is guard-sized.

I mentioned successes above. Sometimes a player can look really good coming out of college. Damion James was also an undersized PF. He has great athleticism, and he could hit the NCAA three. Looking at his stats, offensively and on the boards they look very, very similar to Jae Crowder's. I thought James was going to be a heck of an NBA player. He hasn't been.

At this point, YODA and i think Crowder will be very successful like Jared Dudley, but his lack of size and his stats suggest he could have the impact of Damion James.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... der-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... mes-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... een-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... ley-1.html

[WizarDynasty]

absolutely no way i am allowing a player with a higher upside than l. James slip out of my hands just to get another pick.

[jangles86]

We're inviting mkg and rivers for another workout??

That tells me we may bite on 6 & 11. MKG and Rivers.

Wall/Mack
Crawford/Rivers
Ariza/MKG/Singleton
Nene/Booker/Vesely
Okafor/Serephin/Blatche

7th seed with a lot of potential IMO

[sfam]

I'm becoming more intrigued by the trade down of #3 to Portland for the #6 & 11. If that deal is on the table, I think I would do it, especially if it doesn't involve the #32, although even then I would strongly consider it.

Moving to 6 could still very well give us one of our desired players (Beal, Barnes, MKG). If Drummond goes in the top 5, one of those players will be available at 6. My guess is MKG.

Then at 11 we can get Terrance Ross. And maybe still add someone at 32 like Doron Lamb.

The problem with trading down is while it potentially fills two needs, you end up filling them with players whose chances of becoming an all star are significantly less than who you would have gotten at the #3. The only way I would consider a trade down scenario is if I had determined that the level of player found at #6 would be in no way different than who would be there at #3. Chances are Beal, Barnes and MKG would be gone, so you would be looking at Drummond, Ross or Waiters at the #6. I just don't see them being of the same equivalence.

Our best bet is that Cleveland would prefer to have the #6 and #11 instead of the #2.

[nate33]

I'm becoming more intrigued by the trade down of #3 to Portland for the #6 & 11. If that deal is on the table, I think I would do it, especially if it doesn't involve the #32, although even then I would strongly consider it.

Moving to 6 could still very well give us one of our desired players (Beal, Barnes, MKG). If Drummond goes in the top 5, one of those players will be available at 6. My guess is MKG.

Then at 11 we can get Terrance Ross. And maybe still add someone at 32 like Doron Lamb.

If Beal is gone at #2, then I think I agree with you. Make the trade and take whichever of MKG, TRob or Drummond is left at #6. If we can't get Beal, then we won't really be addressing any immediate needs with our pick so we may as well just go for the highest future upside. MKG or Drummond may well be that player.

[jangles86]

A draft night of Harrison Barnes and Tony Wroten would be worse nightmare.

A draft night of MKG and Jae Crowder would be my sweetest dream.

A draft night of Beal and some other dope will leave me feeling somewhere in between.

Nbadraft.net has Crowder going undrafted

[Dark Faze]

Man people trying to get cute here. Screw your needs. If someone steals Beal then we take MKG and be happy with it.

If anything we should be trading half the roster to get a number top 6 pick, not trying to actively move down...ridiculous.

[tontoz]

I still think Drummond is the guy we need to get. He has the most potential to become a superstar in this draft aside from Davis, and our roster lacks so much potential. If he develops, he can single-handedly change the course of this franchise. His physical tools are unreal -- 6'11.75" tall, 7'6.25 wingspan, 280 lbs w/ great lower body strength, had a 10.83 on the lane agility (reminiscent of a guard), and can jump out the gym.

His vertical of 33.5" is a half inch better than Shelden Williams. His standing reach is an inch shorter than Okafor.

[80sballboy]

I feel if Beal is gone at pick 2 then we should aim for Dion Waiters. Maybe a trade down or something but i feel he should be our second option if we arent able to land beal. I also like Terrance Ross as well.

That's what I've been saying all along. Trade down if Cleveland trades up for Beal.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I feel if Beal is gone at pick 2 then we should aim for Dion Waiters. Maybe a trade down or something but i feel he should be our second option if we arent able to land beal. I also like Terrance Ross as well.

Those three players along with Will Barton and John Jenkins are each good draft choices for Washington. Beal, the prodigy of the group, has achieved a great deal to only be turning 19 years old on the night of draft. He stands to improve physically and mature quite a bit so he is the top pick. Waiters, however, IMO has better scoring ability. Waiters questionable character is a concern but his game is unquestionably on the upswing. I have little doubt that he can really help this team. Ross looks like he could be an even better fit skill wise. He has the size, shooting range, athleticism, and great defensive tools. He's already 21 but appears to be a late bloomer who is still improving.

As the draft approaches, I find myself wanting Ross to be the choice at SG. That said, Beal rebounded and played well in the toughest conference, and is the youngest. He is the logical pick for Washington.

DCfan88, I will be very happy if the Wizards trade down and they come away with either Waiters and Ross; or if they acquire a veteran, Ross, and Will Barton. I like Barton as much as Ross. Also, Jenkins is a cannot miss pick as a shooter off the bench in the NBA.

[Norm2953]

Portland fan here...

Portland's board seems to want Lillard at six but I was wondering what picks you guys
have in the second round if Portland offers up 6,11 for 3.

I'd personally like for Portland to add MKG to the roster and if we had multiple second
round picks, we could go fishing for guys who might be good enough to make an NBA
roster and not be stuck with having to pay guaranteed money for more than one
rookie. We have cap space to sign free agents if the guys in the second round are
not ready to play right away.

If Beal is gone at 2, the Wizards could then drop back 3 spots and get two guys
instead of one guy to fill out your roster. Who would you guys want at six?

[payitforward]

Sometimes a player can look really good coming out of college. Damion James was also an undersized PF. He has great athleticism, and he could hit the NCAA three. Looking at his stats, offensively and on the boards they look very, very similar to Jae Crowder's. I thought James was going to be a heck of an NBA player. He hasn't been.

At this point, YODA and i think Crowder will be very successful like Jared Dudley, but his lack of size and his stats suggest he could have the impact of Damion James....

I too thought James would be an outstanding NBA player. I would have taken him over Booker (and so far that looks like it would have been a mistake). In his defense, he hasn't even played 600 minutes yet. His first season he started out pretty well and then was injured. He got almost no minutes this last year, don't know why.

But I don't know how similar they are off their sophomore numbers. James was by far the better rebounder; Crowder was by far the better shooter.

One similarity is that, like James, Crowder will be changing positions. Perhaps that's part of the reason for James's slow start to his nba career?

[payitforward]

We're inviting mkg and rivers for another workout??

That tells me we may bite on 6 & 11. MKG and Rivers....

If MK-G is there at 6, this would be an attractive trade. I don't know about Rivers at 11; I don't know why I should like him. Ok, he is only a freshman, but he's turning 20 in August so he's not a *young* freshman (ok... I'm stretching an issue here! ), and his numbers this year were unimpressive to say the least.

Somebody tell me why he's a bargain at #11, please -- I'd like to know.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Man people trying to get cute here. Screw your needs. If someone steals Beal then we take MKG and be happy with it.

If anything we should be trading half the roster to get a number top 6 pick, not trying to actively move down...ridiculous.

Dark Faze, what would really make me ecstatic is if the Wizards traded either Booker, Vesely, or Chris Singleton, along with a future pick to Portland for Babbitt and the #11 pick in this draft.

They could end up with MKG and Ross, along with another guy who is a good spot up shooter, Babbit. Moving up to get a higher pick is a better idea than moving down, DF.

[payitforward]

Man people trying to get cute here. Screw your needs. If someone steals Beal then we take MKG and be happy with it.

If anything we should be trading half the roster to get a number top 6 pick, not trying to actively move down...ridiculous.

That's not how it would work, DF: the trade would be contingent on who was there at #6 (and maybe at #11 too). If Beal was on the board at 3, we'd take him and do the deal if what we could get w/ 6 and 11 made it worth it. I.e. if MKG was there at 6 (which he might be). It could also work that if #11 can't bring exactly what we say we want, Portland has to sweeten from their end.

As to "trying to get cute", working deals like this is what makes a good GM. Trading half the roster for a #6? Not so much.

[payitforward]

...what would really make me ecstatic is if the Wizards traded either Booker, Vesely, or Chris Singleton, along with a future pick to Portland for Babbitt and the #11 pick in this draft.

You've lost me on this one, CCJ. If the player is Singleton, yes. Either Booker or Vesely no way. Now, I view "a future pick" as likely to be in the lottery, at least next year's. Especially since last week when Ernie p#ssed in the soup he was cooking. This is a very deep draft, ok, but does that mean an 11 this year is worth more than some lottery number next year? Hard for me to see it.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

...what would really make me ecstatic is if the Wizards traded either Booker, Vesely, or Chris Singleton, along with a future pick to Portland for Babbitt and the #11 pick in this draft.

You've lost me on this one, CCJ. If the player is Singleton, yes. Either Booker or Vesely no way. Now, I view "a future pick" as likely to be in the lottery, at least next year's. Especially since last week when Ernie p#ssed in the soup he was cooking. This is a very deep draft, ok, but does that mean an 11 this year is worth more than some lottery number next year? Hard for me to see it.

Fair enough, because Booker is a really good player. I understand why you would say this. My opinion about Booker is his deserved minutes will be squeezed the most. Trevor's trade value is higher now than it will be once the season gets underway. Unless he can play SF, I would trade Trevor for his good. I would rather have Ross now than Booker on the bench, only to lose him for nothing later.

Vesely is another guy who will lose minutes and I am not sure what his role will be. I don't know when or where he will play with Ariza and Okafor on board. I can understand holding on to him for his immense potential, but sitting him a year doesn't make sense to me. Playing him in front of big-salary guys, Okafor and Ariza isn't going to happen.

The logical guy to move IS Chris Singleton. Singleton and 2013 first for Babbitt and #11 might not move Portland, however.

[FAH1223]

...what would really make me ecstatic is if the Wizards traded either Booker, Vesely, or Chris Singleton, along with a future pick to Portland for Babbitt and the #11 pick in this draft.

You've lost me on this one, CCJ. If the player is Singleton, yes. Either Booker or Vesely no way. Now, I view "a future pick" as likely to be in the lottery, at least next year's. Especially since last week when Ernie p#ssed in the soup he was cooking. This is a very deep draft, ok, but does that mean an 11 this year is worth more than some lottery number next year? Hard for me to see it.

make it protected somehow and i'd do that deal tomorrow