Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part V

[nate33]

Draymond shot 134 three pointers in his senior year of college and shot 39%. That's a much larger sample size than Bennett with similar FT percentage..

I highlighted the important part. Let's not make an apples-to-apples comparison between 22-year-old senior and a 19-year-old freshman. I think it's pretty safe to say that Bennett will be a more proficient perimeter shooter at age 22.

Bennett, as a freshman, was a much more prolific and efficient scorer than Green as a senior.

[Dat2U]

Real quick, as long as we're talking about size... why do people keep saying Anthony Bennett is undersized? He didn't get measured at the combine, but he's listed at 6'8", so it's probably a fair assumption to say he's actually about 6'7" without shoes. What we do know is that he weights about 240 pounds right now, and his wingspan is 7'1".

Honestly, the 6'7" height SOUNDS undersized, but it really isn't all that much. The average NBA PF is 6'9", and there are PLENTY of productive PFs that are only 6'8", and a surprising amount of productive PFs that are 6'7" or 6'6". The average NBA PF's weight is 235, so Bennett is already slightly above average there. The average NBA PF's wingspan is about 7'1" or 7'2". So again, Bennett is right there in that range.

Eh.... height really means nothing. Standing reach is a true measure of length. We have nothing public that lists Bennett's length so it's really a guessing game as to whether he has the ideal physical attributes to play the PF position. I honestly don't know. Wingspan doesn't adequately capture that although people continue to throw out these numbers as if it means anything. It really doesn't. Maybe it's more helpful for perimeter players, but not bigs.

I can't really make a judgement on Bennett because of this, but even if he had ideal measurements, there's enough flags that worry me. He's not the type of guy I'd draft top 3. Emphasis IMO should be place on b-ball IQ, work ethic & b-ball character when drafting that high. I simply have too many questions about him in those categories.

[nate33]

I'm also not sure why you keep including Al Thornton, or rather, why you are regarding him so highly. I'm pretty sure he's been out of the NBA for a couple seasons ever since he wasn't even good enough for the worst Wizards team of all time. Maybe you're thinking of Marcus Thornton, the SG for the Kings?

Don't ask me why, but for some reason, I was thinking Al Thornton was Thad Young. You are right. Thornton is not a "starter". At best, he was a role player. I'll fix it.

[tontoz]

Eh.... height really means nothing. Standing reach is a true measure of length. We have nothing public that lists Bennett's length so it's really a guessing game as to whether he has the ideal physical attributes to play the PF position.

This is a big problem. Standing reach is a much more important issue for him than it is for most other players. Maybe we will find out before the draft but right now it is hard to make a strong case for him not knowing this key measurement.

[Kanyewest]

I've taken a week off this board to reflect on some things, and I haven't come to any groundbreaking conclusions or anything, but at the very least, I'm now convinced that Anthony Bennett should not be an option for us at the 3rd pick (and that he probably isn't in our plans).

I like the kid's potential, and I don't think his floor is as low as a lot of people have made it out to be. I think he's a talented player that can do a lot of good things that our team specifically needs. But I also think that there are better options out there this year, and that he is somewhat of a risk, and I don't think we can afford a risk at this point.

Some of you guys seem to think this team needs to add another legit all-star caliber player if they want to ever become title contenders. I don't think that's necessarily the case, as I think Beal and Wall will both be all-star caliber players, if not better, this coming season and especially in the next 2-4 years. I think we're in a good spot to add a very good role player (a Porter or Oladipo type). I think if we swing for the fences with this pick, and Bennett doesn't turn out to be a stud, then we're in trouble. We all saw how bad the 2011 draft hurt us and set us back. We can't have an empty draft class like that again. We need at least something productive.

I think the pick is definitely going to be Noel (if he falls to us), Porter, Oladipo, or Len. I don't think we're seriously considering the likes of McLemore, Burke, McCollum, Muhammad, Zeller, or Bennett anymore.

I wonder how Bennett feels about being compared to Jan Vesley.

[verbal8]

I can't really make a judgement on Bennett because of this, but even if he had ideal measurements, there's enough flags that worry me. He's not the type of guy I'd draft top 3. Emphasis IMO should be place on b-ball IQ, work ethic & b-ball character when drafting that high. I simply have too many questions about him in those categories.

I think that is part of why there is so much debate on Bennett. There is so much that is unknown about him. He is a guy who the physical measurements would make a huge difference. At a standing reach of 8'8" or 8'9" he looks like a big risk size-wise. Close to 9'0" and it is a bit of an advantage.

His agility also would be interesting to see. Is it NBA SF level quick or just quick compared to college PFs.

Based on our best guesses it seems to me that he is not in the tier with McLemore, Porter and Oladipo. However putting him in the next tier with Trey Burke, Zeller and Len, he looks a lot better. At 3 he looks the way Shabazz looked when were thinking of the 8th or 9th pick. He might be picked there, but he doesn't quite look like he belongs.

[Dark Faze]

It's not like height doesn't matter. You're shooting from around your forehead most of the time so a 6'7 guy is still going to have problems creating his own shot against bigger players unless his release is ridculously high arced.

Then there's actually being able to see the floor, especially as a guy who would be on the elbow as much as Bennett, being able to see most defenders while being crowded helps with decision making and passing.

So in short, defensively and in terms of rebounding having good standing reach negates a lot of his issues there but the standing reach does little to negate his lack of height in terms of offense.

[jivelikenice]

The unknown is what makes this a tricky selection. The list of ppl his size and the success rate is pretty alarming. However I don't view him in the same light as some of those other prospects because of his perimeter skills. He's really a unique draft prospect.

Now factor in that we BLEW the 6th pick in the draft just two years ago and we in essense got a do-over with our jump up in the lottery. Prior to moving up, the rebuild wasn't sabotaged by the Vesely pick, but that pick did hurt I think the eventual upside of this team. We have a chance to make ammends now. Can this organization risk not hitting on this pick? The easy answer is no. At this point you have to give up some potential upside from some certainty. Otto is certainty, and I think his upside his being undervalued. Would I take Otto at 3 if we only had Wall? Probably not; but we have Beal and with this likely being our last lotto trip for a while (unless the injury bug bites us again), we just CAN'T miss. If Vesely had panned out or if we had a nucleus of Wall/Beal/Kawhi for example, we'd have the luxury to gamble big on Bennett; but unfortunately that's not the case.

Edit- Add in his inability to workout, and its just too much of a gamble to take. Conservative doesn't always sound great, but sometimes that's the way to go. Especially when conservative equals a 19 yr old SF with crazy length and a mature game.

[Kanyewest]

I still think the Wiards can afford to gamble on Bennett, the fact that Vesley was a bust shouldn't make the Wizards too cautious. After Kwame Brown didn't pan out as a rookie, teams were afraid to take Amare Stoudemire who slipped all the way to #8.

Still, right now, I have Porter ahead of Bennett. Then again, I haven't seen Bennett play that much except for the NCAA tournament except where he struggled like Porter. I have defensive concerns on whether Bennett can guard 3s or 4s. Yes it would be nice to have a 20 + ppg scorer but not if he is like Antawn Jamison on defense.

[Dat2U]

It's not like height doesn't matter. You're shooting from around your forehead most of the time so a 6'7 guy is still going to have problems creating his own shot against bigger players unless his release is ridculously high arced.

Then there's actually being able to see the floor, especially as a guy who would be on the elbow as much as Bennett, being able to see most defenders while being crowded helps with decision making and passing.

So in short, defensively and in terms of rebounding having good standing reach negates a lot of his issues there but the standing reach does little to negate his lack of height in terms of offense.

Huh??? I could see being a tall PG being helpful because their line of sight helps them see passing lanes, but I don't quite get the point your making in reference to Bennett.

My position on this is how can we know if we don't have all the details? Right now, everything I'm hearing is rather subjective.

[Dark Faze]

I still don't understand how Bennett is supposed to even get an opportunity to be a 20 ppg scorer for us.

He won't start over Nene due to how much we invested in him, so the only realistic scenario is playing him at the 4 and Nene at the 5.

Wall
Beal
Webster/Ariza
Bennett
Nene

compared to

Wall
Beal
Porter/Ariza & or Web
Nene
Okafor




That first lineup doesn't make the playoffs even if Bennett scores 20 PPG imo. Just bad rebounding and defense on the front line. The second roster is very balanced and play well on both sides imo.

[WizarDynasty]

you guys are wasting so much time on Bennett. There is a shotblocker with a 7'5 wingspan, is the best overall rebounder in the draft, outstanding running the floor and finishing with a ridiculous motor, HAS NO MAJOR INJURY CONCERNS Despite being physical cough Greg oden, kmart, bynum---all had signs of injury before coming into the league. oh and he is 7 feet tall and already has above average touch around the rim and showed in the draft combine that he can stroke jumpers.....oh and Brian Scalabrine...a player known for high basketball iq during his days....raves about Adams high basketball iq.
A bigman who can block shots, with a high motor, great feet, outstanding lower body strength, fights for position everyplay deep in the post, and runs the floor and finishes on the fast break... it unbelievable that the most senior of the pretend gm's here haven't figure it out. Your rim protector and heart of the defense is journey man---(okafor---who no one wants, you have Nene who has a cap on his minutes for the rest of his career because of chronic footproblems, and you have soft euro named seraphin who can't get to the free throw line to save his life and has a low basketball iq. How many times has Seraphin been able to finish on a fast break. PEOPLE SERAPHIN is our Bigman of the future at this current point in time. He is the rim protector, he is the enforcer, he is the guy who over powers the other teams toughest big for the game saving rebound or blocks the game winning shot without fouling. The wizards are in serious bad shape. Who do we have that has an even remote chance of stopping Hibbert for the next decade? We have a bunch of senior citizens trying to earn their nest egg before they retire.
You have booker, who is 6'6 and has absolutely zero body control with the ball in his hands. An ex football player. and You have vesely who is basically Edward Scissor hands reincarnated. Bennet is fine but there is absolutely no comparison how unique his package in comparison to how unique Adam's total package is. To find a player with all of Adam's traits in one player happens every ten years. Bennet probably every fine. You see Porter in almost every draft and usually in the second round. Player like Victor...you find them every draft. But never Adams. America with its 290 million people don't produce human being with this type of genetic profile. He is the equivalent of Shaq. How often in the draft does a 300 pounder with a 34 inch vertical come around.
This description alone in almost any draft warrants a top five pick and guess what, we lucky are in the top five. It seems like these statements dont register to some of you, "high motor, monster rebounder, 7'5 wingspan, blocks shots, incredible lower body strength and foot coordination, with a high basketball IQ as stated by

this will go on par with letting al jefferson and roy hibbert and watching them grow into franchise players. You guys have some serious GM skills to build and some of you have been here for nearly 10 years and still fall for the same draft hype year after year and haven't built your own independent evaluation criteria.

[Dark Faze]

There are athletic defensive prospects almost every year though. If we get knocked out in the first round of the playoffs we'll have the 15th, 16th pick in the draft where our only focus will be picking the highest upside bigman we can get WizD.

[TGW]

I actually agree with WizD on Adams...I would love to be able to get an extra pick and nab him at #15. I don't think he's as can't miss as Wiz D says, but I like his mobility, size, and length. I think he is physically the most appealing bigman in this draft next to Noel. 7'0, 255 lbs centers with quick feet don't grow on trees.

PS: WizD, you were calling Vesely the next Pippen or whatever...let's relax on other people's abilities to evaluate talent, mmkay?

[verbal8]

I actually agree with WizD on Adams...I would love to be able to get an extra pick and nab him at #15. I don't think he's as can't miss as Wiz D says, but I like his mobility, size, and length. I think he is physically the most appealing bigman in this draft next to Noel. 7'0, 255 lbs centers with quick feet don't grow on trees.

PS: WizD, you were calling Vesely the next Pippen or whatever...let's relax on other people's abilities to evaluate talent, mmkay?

I love Adams in the 12 to 15 range. A huge reach at 3.

[keynote]

Cody Zeller shooting the ball VERY well. 72% from NBA 3 point line in drills.

https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/sta ... 5937816576

An impressive workout indeed. If Zeller is a true stretch 4/5 candidate, that might change my assessment of him.

[WizarDynasty]

There are athletic defensive prospects almost every year though. If we get knocked out in the first round of the playoffs we'll have the 15th, 16th pick in the draft where our only focus will be picking the highest upside bigman we can get WizD.

there are always incomplete athletic bigmen prospects. They usually can shotblock but have no body strength, if they have lower body strength they are usually slow and plodding. If they happen to shotblock and have lower body strength, they are usually uncoordinated offensively---Jeff withey.
you got mcgee an "athletic 7footer who has unbelievable slow feet unreactive feet and twigs for legs. We spent 4 years building up McGee just so he can have glimpse of what adams already shows before even entering the league". People wake up, the wizards fans should be some of the wisest when it comes to understanding bigman inherent bigman faults but we should also be excited when you see a prospect that has all the strengths that our previous prospects including haywood, Seraphin, mcgee, booker, vesely, pecherov, peter john ramos. We have spent countless picks and wasted many season trying and we finally have a chance to get a complete bigman with no major holes that compete with the elite and who is also young. We have been in the business of searching for a complete center since 2001 with the selection of brendan haywood. tim duncan was drafted in 1997 almost 16 years ago and look how many draft picks we have had and none of them are better than Duncan even after he has played int he league for nearly 17 years.
Adams has the same physical profile as Tim Duncan. Lower body strength, shotblocker, coordinated in the post, runs the floor well, "HIGH MOTOR", "doesn't back DOWN from anyone", high basketball iq.
Do not pass on a player who can be even 80 percent of what tim duncan can be.

ADams has all of hte intangibles as tim duncan and if you think another prospect will come along like this in the next ten years and the wizards will have chance to add this type of player to their roster, you deserve to labeled the next EG.
so again, look at all the players on our roster, and none of them came close to having the physical and mental profile that adams has.
Honestly I don't see how Adams would slip to us at 3 unless Cleveland is worried about him not being mentally strong enough to handle number one overall pick.
In order to be elite, you big can not have major deficiencies or he will get exploited. Birdman, can shotblock but has absolutely zero body strength. Hibbert is eating him up for lunch.
Atlanta has been masquerading al horford at center for almost 7 years and you see where that got them. Adams physical and mental profile at the center position is a once in a decade phenomenon. the U.S. does not produce athletic coordinated seven footers with a powerful lower body base. Europe does not produce physical shot blocking seven footers. The fact that this guy comes from New Zealand and is probably the most gifted 7 footer in the world at age 19. That should tell you alot. The same cannot be said about bennet, porter, r Victor.
Adams unique combination makes him a once in a decade prospect, and he is even more gifted to play center than drummond.
AGain, 7'5 wingspan, powerful lower body, look at Cousins, who has a attitude problem, doesn't have a high motor, doesn't shot block, doesn't really get out on the floor and run but he will get a max contract because he is seven foot, coordinated, with a powerful lower body.
Hopefully this post will start to jumpstart some of the thinking around here.

there is a huge difference between okafor who is about 6'9 center and a 7'0 center who is still growing and already has a unbelievable lower body strength, and outstanding feet and hand coordination.

Bennet is fine if we can't Adams but Adams is the player who sets your center position steady for the next decade and half like a healthy Bogut or a Tim Duncan. Bennet will be a star but we will be like the atlanta Hawks who have great forwards but never a dominant rim protecting seven footer with strength, which is why they always lose. having a dominant rim protector and strong defensive post player with quick reactive feet can't even be measured by statistics yet it is the single most important element of the game.

[fishercob]

WizD does make a point. When's the last time an NBA center from New Zealand wasn't spectacular?

[Ruzious]

Cody Zeller shooting the ball VERY well. 72% from NBA 3 point line in drills.

https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/sta ... 5937816576

An impressive workout indeed. If Zeller is a true stretch 4/5 candidate, that might change my assessment of him.

I'm not at all surprised. He was a skilled kid from the beginning of his freshman year - with excellent form on his FT's. The player I compared him to was a bigger Chandler Parsons. There's no reason he can't develop a consistent jump shot - and perhaps 3 point range.

[fishercob]

Kyle Weidie ‏@Truth_About_It 12m
Just heard that Luke Babbitt is still WOW-ing people in pre-draft workouts & ****. #SoDraftable! #Metrics #Measurements

Kyle with some nice perspective about all the workout reports we'll hear in the coming weeks...