2020 Draft

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Excerpted from the trade thread (& edited for clarity):

...
Trade 9 to SAC for 12, 35, 52....
35 - Peyton Pritchard or Malachi Flynn
37 - Desmond Bane, Nate Hinton or Skylar Mays
52 - Nathan Knight

I hadn't thought of this, but it is an imaginative & conceivable trade to be sure.

No mention of who we'd take at #12, b/c pcbothwei is viewing this as part of a larger move in which we trade that pick.

So... if we make this move but not the larger trade: who do you take at #12?

[pcbothwel]

Thanks PIF...
If we assume no other trade, then for me its Okongwu, Vassell, Haliburton, Poku, Kira Lewis, Hampton, Okoro, Nesmith, Smith, Bey.

One thing to note about Lewis that Im sure you would appreciate. Not only is extremely young for a sophomore, but he constantly improves. While no MAJOR jumps from his Freshman year, he played more minutes with higher usage, took more shots, improved AST:TOV ratio, shot better from all 3 levels, rebounded better, defended better, garnered more Blocks and Steals.

Even over the course of this year, he improved month over month. I LOVE that when im looking at a prospect. Not an easy fit here, but I see him in the Kemba/Fox mold

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Assuming this means no Okongwu, Haliburton or Vassell, who is our guy at #12?

But wait... I know: we proceed to trade the #12 pick to the Sixers for #21 & both #34 & #36. A slight steal for us, I'd say, but quite conceivable (Brand gave #24 & #33 for #20 last year). In fact, we throw in $2m & also get Philly's #49.

So, now we have #21, #34, #35, #36, #37, #49 & #52. What next?

Well, 7 picks is too many: we trade #36 & #37 to the Lakers for their #28. Fair deal.

Ok... we have #21, #28, #34, #35, #49 & #52. Now what?

21 -- Desmond Bane (or Poku; or Paul Reed?)
28 -- Tyler Bey (or Xavier Tillman?)
34 -- Xavier Tillman (or Vernon Carey)
35 -- Vernon Carey (or Malachi Flynn)
49 -- Malachi Flynn (or Skylar Mays)
52 -- Payton Pritchard (or Nate Hinton)
Undrafted: Nathan Knight

Thoughts? Ridicule? Awe?

[payitforward]

Thanks PIF...
If we assume no other trade, then for me its Okongwu, Vassell, Haliburton, Poku, Kira Lewis, Hampton, Okoro, Nesmith, Smith, Bey.

One thing to note about Lewis that Im sure you would appreciate. Not only is extremely young for a sophomore, but he constantly improves. While no MAJOR jumps from his Freshman year, he played more minutes with higher usage, took more shots, improved AST:TOV ratio, shot better from all 3 levels, rebounded better, defended better, garnered more Blocks and Steals.

Even over the course of this year, he improved month over month. I LOVE that when im looking at a prospect. Not an easy fit here, but I see him in the Kemba/Fox mold

I haven't paid any attention to Lewis, as he didn't fit any of the slots we had or were likely to have. Just looking at numbers, I see the relationship to Walker/Fox. I'll go look at video today.

I don't see any "fit" trouble; we need a young point guard. Only question is whether he would be available later in the round, meaning we should trade down a bit further.

My last post was meant as comedy (obvious, I hope) -- not that I wouldn't do exactly that if I could! -- but I don't believe in going "all in" on a player, any player. For that reason, I would never take a player higher than I had him on e.g. a bpa list disregarding position. Do that a few times & you've put a lead weight on your team's overall potential.

[Ruzious]

Assuming this means no Okongwu, Haliburton or Vassell, who is our guy at #12?

But wait... I know: we proceed to trade the #12 pick to the Sixers for #21 & both #34 & #36. A slight steal for us, I'd say, but quite conceivable (Brand gave #24 & #33 for #20 last year). In fact, we throw in $2m & also get Philly's #49.

So, now we have #21, #34, #35, #36, #37, #49 & #52. What next?

Well, 7 picks is too many: we trade #36 & #37 to the Lakers for their #28. Fair deal.

Ok... we have #21, #28, #34, #35, #49 & #52. Now what?

21 -- Desmond Bane (or Poku; or Paul Reed?)
28 -- Tyler Bey (or Xavier Tillman?)
34 -- Xavier Tillman (or Vernon Carey)
35 -- Vernon Carey (or Malachi Flynn)
49 -- Malachi Flynn (or Skylar Mays)
52 -- Payton Pritchard (or Nate Hinton)
Undrafted: Nathan Knight

Thoughts? Ridicule? Awe?

My crystal ball says:
Bane will win Rookie of the Year.
Poku will go top 15, and Reed will go about 20 picks later.
TBey and Tillman will both go in the 30's.
Carey will go late 20's.
Both Flynn and Pritchard will go in the 30's.
Both Mays and Hinton will go in the 40's.
Don't bet the mortgage on Ruz' crystal ball. That's one smart crystal ball.

The draft won't be held till Nov 18th? That's gonna drive me nuts.

[nate33]

My crystal ball says:
Bane will win Rookie of the Year.

Interesting prediction. He's certainly NBA ready with a body built like a tank. And he's more athletic that he appears. (He has a weirdly stiff neck that makes him look slower than he is.) My concerns are his anemic FTA rate and his poor 2P% once he upped his USG% in his final 2 years. Guys that have trouble finishing in traffic or getting to the free throw line don't do too well in the NBA unless they're great shooters. Bane is a very good 3P shooter with his feet set, but it's more of a set shot and he doesn't have a particularly quick release. I don't know if he'll get that shot off in the pros.

I think it's more likely that he carves out a niche as a stout defender in the Jae Crowder/PJ Tucker mold, but he doesn't appear to have Tucker's wingspan so his ability to switch onto 4's and 5's is in doubt.

[payitforward]

...21 -- Desmond Bane (or Poku; or Paul Reed?)
28 -- Tyler Bey (or Xavier Tillman?)
34 -- Xavier Tillman (or Vernon Carey)
35 -- Vernon Carey (or Malachi Flynn)
49 -- Malachi Flynn (or Skylar Mays)
52 -- Payton Pritchard (or Nate Hinton)
Undrafted: Nathan Knight

Thoughts? Ridicule? Awe?

My crystal ball says:
Bane will win Rookie of the Year.
Poku will go top 15, and Reed will go about 20 picks later.
TBey and Tillman will both go in the 30's.
Carey will go late 20's.
Both Flynn and Pritchard will go in the 30's.
Both Mays and Hinton will go in the 40's. ...

Since some guys rising means other guys falling, it looks like you are saying that from my ridiculous vision we could get: Bane, Carey, Tillman, Bey, Mays or Hinton -- i.e. 5 of the 6 -- plus one guy who falls. (Plus, the lynchpin, of course: Nathan Knight undrafted)

So, who's the guy that falls to us @#52?

Don't bet the mortgage on Ruz' crystal ball. That's one smart crystal ball.

With crystal balls... it's all about where the cracks are.

The draft won't be held till Nov 18th? That's gonna drive me nuts.

As must be obvious from my post above -- it's already driven me totally b@****...

[King Ken]

I'm kind of surprised there's not much talk about Precious Achiuwa here. I think he might be my clear pick given what I imagine might happen draft wise. I've got a feeling Obi Toppin will fall to us, but we might pass. I just don't see how anyone in the top 10 has the luxury of drafting a pure scoring 4 who is an upright, up and down player who isn't great on the boards and can't be expected to play the 5.

Basically what I'm saying is I think there's no chance that Haliburton, Okongwu, or even Vassell will be there at 9.

In such a scenario, I'm hoping that Boston would be desperate for say Nesmith, Cole, or Toppin.

We get #14 and #26, pickup Achiuwa and Tyler Bey. We'd have so much flexibility at the 4 and 5 spots between Hachimura, Bey, Bryant , Achiuwa that I might actually look to move Bertans in a sign and trade or something or later at the deadline.

Toppin might not end up a good NBA player, but he's the kind of prospect teams drool over - I can't see him sliding past 6. I'd pass on Precious that high because he's so limited offensively. And while he's a strong and explosive athlete, I don't believe he's the 6'9 that he's listed at - gotta see what he measures at at the combine. If I'm right, that might scare some teams. Hmm, that last sentence didn't come out right. But it would be funny if someone named Precious won a ring (Lord of the Rings reference).

I think Obi will be a good NBA player and possibly a great one.

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It's interesting how divided people are on Obi Toppin.

He can put the ball in the basket, that's for sure. OTOH, he's not a very good rebounder for a 4.

Say a little more about why you like him, please.

[doclinkin]

Arizona freshman Josh Green is a sleeper. He will be a winning player in this league.

[Dat2U]

It's interesting how divided people are on Obi Toppin.

He can put the ball in the basket, that's for sure. OTOH, he's not a very good rebounder for a 4.

Say a little more about why you like him, please.

Upright is correct. Stiff. Cannot move laterally at all But a literally a pogo stick who runs like a gazelle, has good touch and a high IQ. Sounds alot like Antwan Jamison. Higher vert but doesn't have the diversity of moves/shots Jamison had. Both couldn't move their feet on D.

We got Rui. We should keep Bertans. They are mostly 4s. Obi is strictly a 4. I don't see a fit or need.

[Ruzious]

I think there is some versatility to Toppin's game if he ends up with a D'Antoni type coach - or a coach that's willing to borrow parts of D'Antoni's offense. He has the frame to add more muscle and be a small-ball center. Of course, there are going to be defensive issues no matter where you play him - but he'll score so well (and efficiently) that his team will still be competitive. I expect he'll be an adequate rebounder in the NBA. I wouldn't be looking to draft him, because he's not a good fit for the Wiz, and fit really does matter with a player like him.

[Ruzious]

Arizona freshman Josh Green is a sleeper. He will be a winning player in this league.

Better prospect than more heralded teammate Nico Mannion and less heralded teammate Zeke Nnaji. Reminds me of Josh Richardson.

[Ruzious]

Really, the team can't compete without adding a defensive big, but imo it's vital the big is a 2-way player. I think the only option that fits that is Okongwu. There will be some nice trade-down options, but it'll still be a disappointment if we don't end up with Okongwu.

[payitforward]

From JW thread, but really belongs here:

I think it's possible to get both those energy defenders in the draft. The big would be Okongwu at 9. The perimeter defender would be Pif's unusual find, Nate Hinton https://www.thestepien.com/2019/09/12/draft-notes-nate-hintons-uniqueness/.

There's a pack of them in this draft. I do like HInton a mess. Perimeter wise this draft has:

Vassell -- constant effort 40 feet from the basket and across the court. Pretty three ball, from deep, catch and shoot game strong.
Josh Green -- smart high effort defender, knows how to play the player and the spacing game. Underrated, long career glue guy.
Tyler Bey -- raw athleticism and tools in the vein of Matrix Shawn Marion. If he can develop his tools he will be a star. Lob threat.
Hinton -- Heady tough smart gutsy baller at both ends. Locker room intangibles. Gamer, plays with love of the game.
Saddiq Bey -- BBIQ defender with lesser athleticism but a solid 3&D game.

each as as go-get-it defenders on the outside.

On the interior there's Okongwu, but also

James Wiseman
Precious Achiuwa
Isaiah Stewart
Vernon Carey

Rebounding and clogging up the middle. ...Achiuwa is old for a freshman but posted rebound blocks and steals numbers to match anyones. Stewart is a ricocheting cannonball, rebounding with effort and muscle, energetic as a meth head despite his size, he's invariably the first up the floor in both directions. Outlet threat. Vernon Carey is savvy, huge, and more skilled than he's credited for. Highly productive in college, the question is not if his game will translate, it is whether he will develop skills he needs at the next level that he wasn't asked to use in college.

And then there's Xavier Tillman who is undersized perhaps but will be a savvy defensive captain, making any team he's added to suddenly mature and tough.

I think this draft is deep in useful roster players top to bottom....

[pcbothwel]

The lack of respect Paul Reed gets is startling. 6'9, 220 with a 7'2 wingspan with quick hands and feet. The fact that a clearly worse player in Achiuwa gets talked about in the top 12 and Reed possibly going to the 2nd makes zero sense.
Reed, despite being a Junior, is only a couple months older than Precious while being better on both ends of the court.

He just averaged 12 rebounds and 5 STOCKS per 36... Thats a Zion, Clarke, Bamba, Jonathan Isaac, Noel, etc. type impact.

[nate33]

The lack of respect Paul Reed gets is startling. 6'9, 220 with a 7'2 wingspan with quick hands and feet. The fact that a clearly worse player in Achiuwa gets talked about in the top 12 and Reed possibly going to the 2nd makes zero sense.
Reed, despite being a Junior, is only a couple months older than Precious while being better on both ends of the court.

He just averaged 12 rebounds and 5 STOCKS per 36... Thats a Zion, Clarke, Bamba, Jonathan Isaac, Noel, etc. type impact.

It's weird how far he has fallen. He was in the teens a few months ago.

If Tillman isn't available at #37, I'd be happy with Reed.

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...I think this draft is deep in useful roster players top to bottom....

Ok... I've got this completely worked out now. Tell me what you think:
Trade #9 to kings for their 12, 43 & 52.
Trade #12 plus a little $$ to Sixers for their #21, 34 & 36.
21- Desmond Bane
34 - Tyler Bey
36 - Xavier Tillman
37 - Vernon Carey
43 - Malachi Flynn
52 - Nate Hinton
Undrafted FA: Nathan Knight

Two of them become 2-way players.
Pick up Bonga's option.
Cut Schofield, he's useless; eat his salary.
Sign Mathews for 3 years with a 2d-year team option.
Re-sign Bertans (b/c everybody wants to re-sign Bertans).
Hide one of the smaller guys behind one of the larger guys when the league comes around to count players on our roster. (I.e. I've taken us to 16 -- worry about that later).

For the first time in history, there are co-RoYs on the same team as Desmond Bane & Xavier Tillman sweep the board.

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Ditto on Reed if Tillman is gone. Or, on my utopian fantasy scheme, if Bey is gone at 34, take Tillman, then take Reed at 36.

The quality of players that will be available from 20-40+ in this draft is really striking. Now... might not turn out that way, but it sure looks like it to me.

[Ruzious]

The lack of respect Paul Reed gets is startling. 6'9, 220 with a 7'2 wingspan with quick hands and feet. The fact that a clearly worse player in Achiuwa gets talked about in the top 12 and Reed possibly going to the 2nd makes zero sense.
Reed, despite being a Junior, is only a couple months older than Precious while being better on both ends of the court.

He just averaged 12 rebounds and 5 STOCKS per 36... Thats a Zion, Clarke, Bamba, Jonathan Isaac, Noel, etc. type impact.

It's weird how far he has fallen. He was in the teens a few months ago.

If Tillman isn't available at #37, I'd be happy with Reed.

Paul Reed actually reminds me of a little smaller version of Willie Reed who used to play for the Knicks (as opposed to Willis Reed who... used to play for the Knicks). Willie actually had pretty decent stats for his NBA career. Maybe I saw Paul at his worst, but I just wasn't impressed with him - and he really needed to get stronger - maybe he's done that - I don't know. Measurements should be coming soon. If he's like 210 lbs, that's a bad sign for him. And he's not a Brandon Clarke level athlete to make up for it.