Official Trade Thread - Part XXV

[verbal8]

The only player I would give Beal/Porter/pick for is Durant. Love is a great player, but I wouldn't blow my team up and leave me with nothing.

Dealing Beal for Love, does make it a lot harder to build a contender. Beal isn't great yet, but he still is one of the most promising young SGs in the NBA. I think Minnesota would be unlikely to deal Love to the Wizards without getting Beal back. I think they may be willing to pull the trigger without a pick, because the big pick value is improving their pick this year.

[verbal8]

Raf, I love Bradley Beal. But he's pretty must just potential at this point (despite his raw scoring numbers, he's actually performing worse this year than he did last season). If you can get a legit superstar like Kevin Love, and the price is Brad, I think you have to do it. Love is only 25.

Wall and Love would be one of the best duo's in the entire league. Surround them with shooters and defenders and you have a team that contends for conference and league titles for years to come.

Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't consider Kevin Love to be alpha in the same tier as Lebron or Durant. I would give up multiple picks for Love for sure, but not in addition to trading Beal and Porter. There's no way.

I agree that he is a step below the Lebron/Durant - MVP candidate tier. However that tier is very small and Wall would have to be in it for the Wizards to be a championship team. I looked through the drafts back to 1999 quickly and he would rarely do worse than 3rd in any re-draft.

If both Wall and Love are a tier below, then maybe the Wizards have a Stockton/Malone Jazz level run of competitive play-off squads - although the limitations there may have been the surrounding talent as much the stars of those teams, well that and that pesky Jordan guy.

[dckingsfan]

The team is obviously not happy with him. Suspended for 2 games.

Heck they might deal him for Singleton and Maynor at this point.

Make it so!

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... dre-Miller

Apparently there is other trade interest in Andre Miller. Looking at the Warriors they would probably use a TPE to get him. That probably means the Wizards can't move Maynor in a deal to acquire him, unless the Nuggets think he has some value as a replacement PG. The would probably jump on Booker and Maynor, but I think that is giving up too much.

It really comes down to if the Nuggets had any interest in Vesley or Seraphin. One of them and Singleton matches up salary. To be more competitive with a pure cap space offer the Wizards could kick in the cash to pay salaries for the rest of the season.

Sacramento could offer Outlaw(or maybe Jimmer) and Hamady Ndiaye.

Yep, agreed - no chance to move Maynor in this deal. Best we could hope for would be cap space clearing with Vesely and Singleton. Still - it would be a very nice piece of the puzzle.

[Rafael122]

Raf, I love Bradley Beal. But he's pretty must just potential at this point (despite his raw scoring numbers, he's actually performing worse this year than he did last season). If you can get a legit superstar like Kevin Love, and the price is Brad, I think you have to do it. Love is only 25.

Wall and Love would be one of the best duo's in the entire league. Surround them with shooters and defenders and you have a team that contends for conference and league titles for years to come.

Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't consider Kevin Love to be alpha in the same tier as Lebron or Durant. I would give up multiple picks for Love for sure, but not in addition to trading Beal and Porter. There's no way.

I agree that he is a step below the Lebron/Durant - MVP candidate tier. However that tier is very small and Wall would have to be in it for the Wizards to be a championship team. I looked through the drafts back to 1999 quickly and he would rarely do worse than 3rd in any re-draft.

If both Wall and Love are a tier below, then maybe the Wizards have a Stockton/Malone Jazz level run of competitive play-off squads - although the limitations there may have been the surrounding talent as much the stars of those teams, well that and that pesky Jordan guy.

It's not NBA 2K14 though, the trade may work on there, but how can you build a team around Wall and Love when your other pieces consist of Webster, Kevin Martin and JJ Barea. Who are they going to scare with that? That doesn't even send you to the conference finals. How are the Wizards better?

[fishercob]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't consider Kevin Love to be alpha in the same tier as Lebron or Durant. I would give up multiple picks for Love for sure, but not in addition to trading Beal and Porter. There's no way.

I agree that he is a step below the Lebron/Durant - MVP candidate tier. However that tier is very small and Wall would have to be in it for the Wizards to be a championship team. I looked through the drafts back to 1999 quickly and he would rarely do worse than 3rd in any re-draft.

If both Wall and Love are a tier below, then maybe the Wizards have a Stockton/Malone Jazz level run of competitive play-off squads - although the limitations there may have been the surrounding talent as much the stars of those teams, well that and that pesky Jordan guy.

It's not NBA 2K14 though, the trade may work on there, but how can you build a team around Wall and Love when your other pieces consist of Webster, Kevin Martin and JJ Barea. Who are they going to scare with that? That doesn't even send you to the conference finals. How are the Wizards better?

I havent played video games for at least 15 years, so I can't address your first comment.

But the last is easy. How are the Wizards better? They're replacing Bradley Beal and Otto Porter -- combined PER of 17.8 and WS/48 of right around 0 for Kevin Love's PER of 28.4 and .277!

There's only one Lebron, yes. But love is 3rd in the league in DReb%, 7th in total Reb%, 3rd in PER, 5th in individual ORtg (and first among high-usage guys), 4th in WS/48/ Kevin Love IS elite.

So, if it costs you Beal and Porter, to get an elite 25-year old big man, you do it!

Wall, Webster, Love, Nene, Rice and Maynor would be under contract headed into the summer. You'd have Bird Rights on Ariza and Gortat plus the full MLE. It's a good summer to be shopping for backup guards. You could build a contender starting from that. I don't even think it would be that hard, and I think Ted would strategically pay the luxtax once the revenues kicked up significantly.

[Rafael122]

I agree that he is a step below the Lebron/Durant - MVP candidate tier. However that tier is very small and Wall would have to be in it for the Wizards to be a championship team. I looked through the drafts back to 1999 quickly and he would rarely do worse than 3rd in any re-draft.

If both Wall and Love are a tier below, then maybe the Wizards have a Stockton/Malone Jazz level run of competitive play-off squads - although the limitations there may have been the surrounding talent as much the stars of those teams, well that and that pesky Jordan guy.

It's not NBA 2K14 though, the trade may work on there, but how can you build a team around Wall and Love when your other pieces consist of Webster, Kevin Martin and JJ Barea. Who are they going to scare with that? That doesn't even send you to the conference finals. How are the Wizards better?

I havent played video games for at least 15 years, so I can't address your first comment.

But the last is easy. How are the Wizards better? They're replacing Bradley Beal and Otto Porter -- combined PER of 17.8 and WS/48 of right around 0 for Kevin Love's PER of 28.4 and .277!

There's only one Lebron, yes. But love is 3rd in the league in DReb%, 7th in total Reb%, 3rd in PER, 5th in individual ORtg (and first among high-usage guys), 4th in WS/48/ Kevin Love IS elite.

So, if it costs you Beal and Porter, to get an elite 25-year old big man, you do it!

Wall, Webster, Love, Nene, Rice and Maynor would be under contract headed into the summer. You'd have Bird Rights on Ariza and Gortat plus the full MLE. It's a good summer to be shopping for backup guards. You could build a contender starting from that. I don't even think it would be that hard, and I think Ted would strategically pay the luxtax once the revenues kicked up significantly.

Is the team better than Miami or Indy tho?

Wall - $13.7
Nene - $13
Love - $15.7
Ariza - $6.5 (guessing)
Gortat - $10 (guessing)
Webster - $5.3
Maynor - $2.1

Roughly $67 million on 7 players, and half a team to fill out. We're just not a good partner for Minnesota and it might only get us 1 or 2 wins in the conference semifinals.

[fishercob]

It's not NBA 2K14 though, the trade may work on there, but how can you build a team around Wall and Love when your other pieces consist of Webster, Kevin Martin and JJ Barea. Who are they going to scare with that? That doesn't even send you to the conference finals. How are the Wizards better?

I havent played video games for at least 15 years, so I can't address your first comment.

But the last is easy. How are the Wizards better? They're replacing Bradley Beal and Otto Porter -- combined PER of 17.8 and WS/48 of right around 0 for Kevin Love's PER of 28.4 and .277!

There's only one Lebron, yes. But love is 3rd in the league in DReb%, 7th in total Reb%, 3rd in PER, 5th in individual ORtg (and first among high-usage guys), 4th in WS/48/ Kevin Love IS elite.

So, if it costs you Beal and Porter, to get an elite 25-year old big man, you do it!

Wall, Webster, Love, Nene, Rice and Maynor would be under contract headed into the summer. You'd have Bird Rights on Ariza and Gortat plus the full MLE. It's a good summer to be shopping for backup guards. You could build a contender starting from that. I don't even think it would be that hard, and I think Ted would strategically pay the luxtax once the revenues kicked up significantly.

Is the team better than Miami or Indy tho?

Wall - $13.7
Nene - $13
Love - $15.7
Ariza - $6.5 (guessing)
Gortat - $10 (guessing)
Webster - $5.3
Maynor - $2.1

Roughly $67 million on 7 players, and half a team to fill out. We're just not a good partner for Minnesota and it might only get us 1 or 2 wins in the conference semifinals.

So THAT's the criteria we are using to evaluate trades now -- whether it makes us better than Miami or Indiana today?

I don't think this trade makes us better than either team today, but I do think it stacks us up better against them than we are now, and certainly positions ourselves better in 2 years, maybe 1. Plus, like every team, Miami and Indy are both one injury away from being "out of the way." There's already noise about how much longer Miami can keep their top 3 together. We know Indy won't pay the luxury tax -- George's extension doesn't kick in until next year and they're going to have to shell out $7M -$9M/yr for Stephenson.

Maybe you S&T Gortat for multiple rotation players. Maybe you pay the lux tax for a year before you're "ready." Maybe both. There would be lots of ways to go about building from that core. Lots of guys would want to come play with Wall and Love. That is for sure.

[Benjammin]

Love (with a long-term deal) for Beal and Porter is a no-brainer for me but I think the Wolves could do better.

[Rafael122]

I havent played video games for at least 15 years, so I can't address your first comment.

But the last is easy. How are the Wizards better? They're replacing Bradley Beal and Otto Porter -- combined PER of 17.8 and WS/48 of right around 0 for Kevin Love's PER of 28.4 and .277!

There's only one Lebron, yes. But love is 3rd in the league in DReb%, 7th in total Reb%, 3rd in PER, 5th in individual ORtg (and first among high-usage guys), 4th in WS/48/ Kevin Love IS elite.

So, if it costs you Beal and Porter, to get an elite 25-year old big man, you do it!

Wall, Webster, Love, Nene, Rice and Maynor would be under contract headed into the summer. You'd have Bird Rights on Ariza and Gortat plus the full MLE. It's a good summer to be shopping for backup guards. You could build a contender starting from that. I don't even think it would be that hard, and I think Ted would strategically pay the luxtax once the revenues kicked up significantly.

Is the team better than Miami or Indy tho?

Wall - $13.7
Nene - $13
Love - $15.7
Ariza - $6.5 (guessing)
Gortat - $10 (guessing)
Webster - $5.3
Maynor - $2.1

Roughly $67 million on 7 players, and half a team to fill out. We're just not a good partner for Minnesota and it might only get us 1 or 2 wins in the conference semifinals.

So THAT's the criteria we are using to evaluate trades now -- whether it makes us better than Miami or Indiana today?

I don't think this trade makes us better than either team today, but I do think it stacks us up better against them than we are now, and certainly positions ourselves better in 2 years, maybe 1. Plus, like every team, Miami and Indy are both one injury away from being "out of the way." There's already noise about how much longer Miami can keep their top 3 together. We know Indy won't pay the luxury tax -- George's extension doesn't kick in until next year and they're going to have to shell out $7M -$9M/yr for Stephenson.

Maybe you S&T Gortat for multiple rotation players. Maybe you pay the lux tax for a year before you're "ready." Maybe both. There would be lots of ways to go about building from that core. Lots of guys would want to come play with Wall and Love. That is for sure.

It's not really a criteria but those are the two best teams in the East. Trading for Love doesn't make the Wizards better than either of them.

Now if the remote possibility exists that they can get Love in free agency and pair him Wall, Beal, Porter, etc...then you have something. But gutting the team for one guy, who isn't an Alpha-male type...then you're the Knicks.

Bill Simmons proposed a trade that would send Carlos Boozer, Mirotic, Jimmy Butler, and 2 first round picks (one of which is the Bobcats pick and their own). This was months back, back before the season even started. As it stands now, those 2 picks will be lottery picks (b/c of Rose's injury and Charlotte slumping) combined with Minnesota's own lottery pick. A promising prospect in Mirotic and a nice player in Butler.

But we're sitting here asking if a trade that starts with Beal, Porter, and two first round picks would work. Why is our trade package different?

Why can't we trade Porter, 2 first round picks w/no protection, and Nene for Love and Brewer? Why do the Wizards have to give up more? Granted Porter and Beal haven't proven much, but both aren't even old enough to drink, and both guys got taken in the top 5 in back to back drafts.

[fishercob]

So THAT's the criteria we are using to evaluate trades now -- whether it makes us better than Miami or Indiana today?

I don't think this trade makes us better than either team today, but I do think it stacks us up better against them than we are now, and certainly positions ourselves better in 2 years, maybe 1. Plus, like every team, Miami and Indy are both one injury away from being "out of the way." There's already noise about how much longer Miami can keep their top 3 together. We know Indy won't pay the luxury tax -- George's extension doesn't kick in until next year and they're going to have to shell out $7M -$9M/yr for Stephenson.

Maybe you S&T Gortat for multiple rotation players. Maybe you pay the lux tax for a year before you're "ready." Maybe both. There would be lots of ways to go about building from that core. Lots of guys would want to come play with Wall and Love. That is for sure.

It's not really a criteria but those are the two best teams in the East. Trading for Love doesn't make the Wizards better than either of them.

Again, no one said it did. But it's also not hard to envision how the Wizards could contend with those teams within a year or two.

Now if the remote possibility exists that they can get Love in free agency and pair him Wall, Beal, Porter, etc...then you have something. But gutting the team for one guy, who isn't an Alpha-male type...then you're the Knicks.

Wait, you'd rather have the remote possibility of adding Love to Beal and Porter than the certainty of acquiring him for them? I'd take door number two myself. That said, it's pretty clear we will not have the cap space to acquire love should he hit unrestricted free agency, so that possibiliy is even more remote. I don't really understand this nonsense about Love not being an "alpha male." He's one of the single best players in the league.

Bill Simmons proposed a trade...

K.

Why can't we trade Porter, 2 first round picks w/no protection, and Nene for Love and Brewer? Why do the Wizards have to give up more? Granted Porter and Beal haven't proven much, but both aren't even old enough to drink, and both guys got taken in the top 5 in back to back drafts.

If you're so concerned about beating Miami and Indiana after a Love trade, I don't necessarily understand the rush in include Nene. But to answer your question as to "why can't we?" it's because Love is basically a first team all-NBA talent who is 25 and is worth more.

[Dark Faze]

Love would have to agree to an extension upon signing for us to move significant assets for him, and in that case why wouldn't he just be patient and come to us via free agency? Why should we give up a guy like Beal just to get Love a year sooner? And of course renting him for significant assets in hopes of luring him into staying with us would be the worst possible mistake we could make with LA waiting in the wings.

Here's my plan--get guys that have salaries that match production. If you do that you can become a winner. Nene is vastly overpaid for his production right now. Gortat isn't going to be worth his argued market value of 11+ a year, all our first round picks besides Porter/Beal aren't worth the money they are getting, Maynor isn't worth 2 mill...I mean cmon.

You look at a great GM like Masai who was recently quoted as saying that despite them going 9-3 or whatever since the Gay trade and having a great shot at the playoffs, that won't prevent them from making "longterm" trades.

If we wanted to be a perenial playoff team for years to come we'd trade guys that are expiring for value. Atlantas a team that is desperate to keep the ball rolling. We can help them continue their treadmill run by offering a rental of Gortat for their first this year. Shop Nene and Ariza for a pick.

Wall makes an all-star game before the tanking begins. We gave him a max contract. He should be happy with just one last tank year.

We get our pick back from PHX this year for dipping into the lottery, have a ton of money in the off-season and have another first or two from trades.

Who knows? Maybe you move up and can get a guy like Smart and move him to Orlando for Vucevic. Maybe we can offer all our picks for Love.

[verbal8]

Here's my plan--get guys that have salaries that match production. If you do that you can become a winner. Nene is vastly overpaid for his production right now. Gortat isn't going to be worth his argued market value of 11+ a year, all our first round picks besides Porter/Beal aren't worth the money they are getting, Maynor isn't worth 2 mill...I mean cmon.

I am not sure I would take it so far as to actually try to miss the play-offs this year, but I agree with the goal of acquiring players on good deals. Look at the interest Milsap attracts in the trade market. I think with fewer real bad free agency deals, the value of expiring contracts in the trade market has decreased.

Gortat does seem like he will likely be overpaid, so if he can be turned into a reasonably priced asset, it needs to be explored.

[stevemcqueen1]

Gutting the team to try and tank this season isn't really a plan.

We've barely developed our four straight top six picks as is. What are we going to do with more draft picks when we would have trouble just putting a line up on the court where everyone isn't trying to learn on the job?

We're not going to just abandon everything we've tried to build thus far, the few things that have worked, to tank again. Nor should we.

Gutting the team to trade for Love isn't really much of a plan either, assuming Minnesota would actually deal him. How do we build a team after we get him? Not going to have draft picks or cap space moving forward, and the only young player with any sort of upside left would be Wall. Trading for Love accelerates the window we need to contend to now because you don't have any young assets left to wait around on. You'd have to be satisfied with the team you'd have after getting Love.

Our best bet is to be patient and keep developing Wall and Beal and continue building around them. Short term the goal is to get into the playoffs each season and get those two experience and keep a constellation of decent role players around them that can do their jobs. You've got to prop them up until they're mature enough to prop you up. Long term, the goal is to develop Wall and Beal into perennial All Stars and keep our cap free enough so that we can keep Wall and Beal no matter what they cost. Plus develop our draft picks and use our remaining cap room carefully to fill out all the other roles on the roster with quality.

[Dark Faze]

What do we do with the picks? We trade them for value or we draft what we believe to be value.

2014 picks are coveted. You move a guy like Ariza to a team that's thinking WIN NOW like say the Grizzlies to get a pick, then you move that pick to a team that's thinking long term but has a value piece they'd be willing to part with, or to help facilitate a trade. It's not just about drafting guys, it's about getting value for players that don't have a long term future with your organization rather than just letting them walk. The East is awful this year, we can probably make the eight seed even while losing certain pieces.

Look at Houston. They were able to move a player in combination with a valued pick to get a superstar. Maybe we can't go quite that far, but we almost certainly should be able to do get better long term value than what we have now. Maybe a struggling team with good pieces like Denver is ready to tank and will give up a guy like Faried for a pick. Maybe you can get a promising guy like Jordan Hill and some long term bench pieces for a pick from the Lakers...there are always options when you have picks.

The key point is, the status quo here sucks. We need to maximize the value on what we have now in order to turn those assets into long term, strong options that we can grow with. It can't just be Wall, Beal and a bunch of rotating, underperforming mercenaries. We need a strong core that we can feel comfortable growing together.

Do we really think Nene, Gortat and Ariza are going to be guys that can see us to an ECF within three years? No? Then cut bait before their value further declines and your stuck with trash.

[JWallConnect]

Trade Gortat!

[nate33]

Love (with a long-term deal) for Beal and Porter is a no-brainer for me but I think the Wolves could do better.

This.

I'd trade Beal and Porter for Love so fast it would make your head spin. The rest of the team may not be suited for a championship run right away, but we'd still have a nucleus of two top 20 players (potentially top 10), both 25 or under, who compliment each other perfectly. We'd also have at least one more piece of the puzzle in Webster, and Nene is a quality 3rd big on a championship contender. Really, the only hard part left would be the acquisition of a starting center who was a rim protector. The other pieces (competent starting SG, another defensive wing, a backup combo guard) are relatively easy to find.

[Dark Faze]

Kendall Marshall with 20, 15, and 6

guys

guys

;_;

[pcbothwel]

Sooo I am not sure where to really put this post. But I just looked at our schedule through Feb 12th (1 week before trade deadline). With the opponents we face, where we play them, and the frequency of games...I see this team very much looking at 22-30 after the games against Houston on the 12th...Am I wrong?

I simply cant believe its gotten to this, but we blew so many easy games with a lot of rest, that I dont see how this team gets the 3rd/4th seed anymore (unless ATL, TOR completely fall apart)

[hands11]

Sooo I am not sure where to really put this post. But I just looked at our schedule through Feb 12th (1 week before trade deadline). With the opponents we face, where we play them, and the frequency of games...I see this team very much looking at 22-30 after the games against Houston on the 12th...Am I wrong?

I simply cant believe its gotten to this, but we blew so many easy games with a lot of rest, that I dont see how this team gets the 3rd/4th seed anymore (unless ATL, TOR completely fall apart)

Its a tough schedule. I posted about this before the MIN game. It was in either the Predict the Wiz record or Rank the conference thread. Yeah, things could get ugly fast.

Seemed like things were going well after back to back wins against DET. But after these last two games, who knows. The team has holes. Coaching. Lack of defensive center. The Booker/Gortat combo. Lack of driving players with handles. Specially at SG/SF. Lack of team focus from one game to the next.

They need to decide between Booker or Gortat as the starter and then find a complimentary player for the one the pick. These two don't compliment each other well enough. Both are incomplete as starters without the right complimentary piece next to them. Both need a better defensive presence next to them.

I wonder what they could get for Gortat if they traded him.

[nate33]

Sooo I am not sure where to really put this post. But I just looked at our schedule through Feb 12th (1 week before trade deadline). With the opponents we face, where we play them, and the frequency of games...I see this team very much looking at 22-30 after the games against Houston on the 12th...Am I wrong?

I simply cant believe its gotten to this, but we blew so many easy games with a lot of rest, that I dont see how this team gets the 3rd/4th seed anymore (unless ATL, TOR completely fall apart)

Overall, we're going to end up playing a very easy schedule because we're in the East. Looking at the tail end of the season, we could conceivably finish off with a 10-0 win streak assuming Miami is resting veterans.