Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVI

[Mauro Pedrosa]

Most Magic fans wouldn't want to trade Gordon, who has a pretty great and declining contract, for Wall who has an albatross.

Ideally it would be Vucevic and Fournier (Vuc is expring, Fournier next season) and a 1st rounder (could be unprotected) for Wall

[DANNYLANDOVER]

Wall to PHX for Elie Okobo, Josh Jackson, and their 2019 first-round pick.

That would give us a quick retool.

I’d possibly accompany that with a Porter trade, but only if it fetched the right player.

I'd drive him to Phoenix for that trade, but no shot. I doubt we'd even get that for Beal.

[pcbothwel]

Wall to PHX for Elie Okobo, Josh Jackson, and their 2019 first-round pick.

That would give us a quick retool.

I’d possibly accompany that with a Porter trade, but only if it fetched the right player.

I'd drive him to Phoenix for that trade, but no shot. I doubt we'd even get that for Beal.

No chance I take that for Beal. I like Okobo, but he was a 2nd round pick a few months ago and has done nothing since.

Josh Jackson is a bust. He is about to turn 22 and is an absolutely atrocious player. He cant score from 1 ft., FT line, or 3...Nothing.
Doesnt rebound, turns the ball over, and fouls too much... He is a Bender/Anthony Bennett level bust.

He is a homeless mans Michael Kidd Gilchrist.... Oh, and he makes 7M per year...lol. He will be Non-tendered in 11 months.

Personnally, I think the Suns team is in bad shape. They whiffed badly on Bender, Chriss, and Jackson.
I think Booker is highly overrated and never becomes an elite offensive player while being a sieve on Defense.
Ayton looks great, but If he is your best player by far then you are a 30 win team.
Bridges will be a good compliment, but his ceiling is a Covington type player.

I think this is a Lotto team for the next 4-5 year without question.

[Ruzious]

Beal or Wall to NY for Hezonja, Lee, and Baker (filler) and their UNPROTECTED 1st round pick. NY moves Hardaway to the 3 if it's Beal in the deal. Wash then trades Lee for a 2nd rounder and filler. Hezonja's a UFA but shouldn't cost too much. I think he's still got a lot of untapped potential, but the key is getting the Knix pick.

[Error Afflalo]

Most Magic fans wouldn't want to trade Gordon, who has a pretty great and declining contract, for Wall who has an albatross.

Ideally it would be Vucevic and Fournier (Vuc is expring, Fournier next season) and a 1st rounder (could be unprotected) for Wall

I'd do that deal.

Edit: Fournier has a $17M player option for 20-21, which changes things a bit.

[Illmatic12]

let’s try to actually give Wall the tools he needs, for once, and actually go “all in,” for once.

That sounds great in theory, but the problem is we literally have nothing to offer in a trade except Brown and future picks. Going further into the tax is just not an option, the financial costs are too high. And I'll say it before PIF jumps in: we can't keep sacrificing future picks in win-now deals because it's those picks that give us the cheap players - players we need on the roster so we don't have to keep trading even more picks to save salary.

We have plenty to trade, for the right deal. Tristan is not going to cost much. And yes, trading future picks means we give up future cheap players. Balance that against the plummeting trade value of our current players (when losing); the cheap vets who clamor to winning teams; and the increased trade value of winning players. How much more would we get for Otto if we were a winning franchise currently?

We also have to think addition by subtraction. Which players off the team would heal the locker room? Which players in their place would help heal the chemistry? Which players if traded (Rivers) would be replaced by better players on our bench, thus making them happier and upping their trade value?

We need a mobile big with leadership skills. I’d love for that to be MIllsap or a Gasol, but Tristan will do. But, it needs to happen for this team to live up to potential. That potential will be higher with Howard, but it will still be decreasing from what it could have been with the type of player I, and Wall, has been begging for. We can go a little deeper into the tax, next year, if we get value back that will push our talent to higher trade levels. Then, after winning, deal with the tax — at Allstar or during the off-season. That is going all in.

You shouldn't only be talking about the players healing chemistry, you should be talking about the coach.

Scott Brooks has a track record of sabotaging his own team by not creating a system or putting his players in defined roles. When your gameplan is basically "Wall/Beal or Durant/Westbrook iso, everyone else stand around" it is naturally going to create chemistry issues , discontent and a lack of cohesion. Scotty tries to counteract that by overplaying the bench , but that just creates even more tension because the starters become tired of bailing the team out every time when the all-bench lineup blows leads.

Brooks as a person is a nice guy, but his coaching style is borderline toxic.

The only player who I honestly think is inherently negative to chemistry is Markieff . If we exchanged Markieff for a no-nonsense starting PF, swapped Oubre for say, Ariza, and ran it back with a new head coach I think the Wall/Beal/Porter core would be much more successful. But Ernie has already gotten the team so far down the hole with salaries that it'll be difficult to find that glue guy frontcourt player , unless we land a diamond in the rough ala Draymond.

[Mauro Pedrosa]

Most Magic fans wouldn't want to trade Gordon, who has a pretty great and declining contract, for Wall who has an albatross.

Ideally it would be Vucevic and Fournier (Vuc is expring, Fournier next season) and a 1st rounder (could be unprotected) for Wall

I'd do that deal.

Edit: Fournier has a $17M player option for 20-21, which changes things a bit.

I forgot about that. If you wanted pure salary relief you could add Augustin or whatever

[queridiculo]

The only player who I honestly think is inherently negative to chemistry is Markieff . If we exchanged Markieff for a no-nonsense starting PF, swapped Oubre for say, Ariza, and ran it back with a new head coach I think the Wall/Beal/Porter core would be much more successful. But Ernie has already gotten the team so far down the hole with salaries that it'll be difficult to find that glue guy frontcourt player , unless we land a diamond in the rough ala Draymond.

I don't think the salary cap is the issue with respect to the Morris situation.

Washington has had opportunities to address the position. How many times has Ilyasova for example been on the move now?

The trouble is that Grunfeld thinks Morris is a productive player, heck, there's even evidence to suggest that they consider him a core piece.

That's where it starts. To Ernest this is a borderline All-Star that can defend multiple positions, that brings toughness and that can score.

None of those things are true of course.

Morris can't be bothered to put forth effort more than once every blue moon, he doesn't defend anybody, can't rebound worth a damn and is a net negative on offense the vast majority of times.

The trouble with Grunfeld is that he imagines players at their best being their normal, and that there's some sort of magic formula out there that will result in them consistently playing that way.

So when Morris pops off like he did against the Blazers he'll be like, "see, I told you the kid can play!", completely ignoring that this was just a statistical outlier.

[payitforward]

quote="badinage"]Wall to PHX for Elie Okobo, Josh Jackson, and their 2019 first-round pick. ...
No chance I take that for Beal. I like Okobo, but he was a 2nd round pick a few months ago and has done nothing since.

Josh Jackson is a bust. ...

Personnally, I think the Suns team is in bad shape. They whiffed badly on Bender, Chriss, and Jackson.
I think Booker is highly overrated and never becomes an elite offensive player while being a sieve on Defense.
Ayton looks great, but If he is your best player by far then you are a 30 win team.
Bridges will be a good compliment, but his ceiling is a Covington type player.

I think this is a Lotto team for the next 4-5 year without question.

I agree entirely about the Suns as a team. & all the more about Booker.

Which means, of course, that they are very likely to have 1 of the top 3 picks next year. Hence the trade, in essence, gives us Okobo (who is a promising rookie) & the #1, 2 or 3 pick next year in return for Beal. The trade also gets us out of the tax this year & makes it possible to stay out of the tax next year as well.

That's a lot. By saying "No chance I take that..." you imply that you think we can get more than that for Beal. I'd be quite surprised if that were true.

I think that's a terrific trade for us. Naturally, I'd like them to give us Richaun Holmes as well. & DeAnthony Melton too -- as long as we're asking.

I'd also be happy to throw in Austin Rivers & take back Ryan Anderson. We still get out of the tax, & they save some $. Best of all, Rivers helps insure that they have that 1-3 pick.

Who knows? Maybe we could get a R2 pick for Jackson instead of just letting him go? Probably not....

Out: Bradley Beal & Austin Rivers
In: #1-3 pick in 2019, Ryan Anderson, Elie Okobo, Richaun Holmes & DeAnthony Melton.

We would have to waive Chasson Randle to get down to 15. We'd be under the tax by @$1m.

[Dat2U]

Was just thinking, what are the salary cap implications of trading Wall now if the Wizarde have to pay out a lump sum 15% trade kicker?

Does that all hit the cap this year? If so, then we can forgetaboutit, lol.

[queridiculo]

Was just thinking, what are the salary cap implications of trading Wall now if the Wizarde have to pay out a lump sum 15% trade kicker?

Does that all hit the cap this year? If so, then we can forgetaboutit, lol.

I'm skeptical about Zach Lowe interpretation about implications of the trade kicker.

What mechanics would make this kick in retroactively?

[Dat2U]

Was just thinking, what are the salary cap implications of trading Wall now if the Wizarde have to pay out a lump sum 15% trade kicker?

Does that all hit the cap this year? If so, then we can forgetaboutit, lol.

I'm skeptical about Zach Lowe interpretation about implications of the trade kicker.

What mechanics would make this kick in retroactively?

I'm surmising here but here's my understanding of it.

Wall's salary cannot exceed the max salary for his time in the league.

In Otto's case if he's moved, his trade kicker is actually voided b/c he would currently exceed the max salary for his time in the league.

Because Wall is currently under his old deal and he's only making 17 mil, the kicker is immediately applied and has to be paid out before his new deal starts.

[Illmatic12]

The only player who I honestly think is inherently negative to chemistry is Markieff . If we exchanged Markieff for a no-nonsense starting PF, swapped Oubre for say, Ariza, and ran it back with a new head coach I think the Wall/Beal/Porter core would be much more successful. But Ernie has already gotten the team so far down the hole with salaries that it'll be difficult to find that glue guy frontcourt player , unless we land a diamond in the rough ala Draymond.

I don't think the salary cap is the issue with respect to the Morris situation.

Washington has had opportunities to address the position. How many times has Ilyasova for example been on the move now?

The trouble is that Grunfeld thinks Morris is a productive player, heck, there's even evidence to suggest that they consider him a core piece.

That's where it starts. To Ernest this is a borderline All-Star that can defend multiple positions, that brings toughness and that can score.

None of those things are true of course.

Morris can't be bothered to put forth effort more than once every blue moon, he doesn't defend anybody, can't rebound worth a damn and is a net negative on offense the vast majority of times.

The trouble with Grunfeld is that he imagines players at their best being their normal, and that there's some sort of magic formula out there that will result in them consistently playing that way.

So when Morris pops off like he did against the Blazers he'll be like, "see, I told you the kid can play!", completely ignoring that this was just a statistical outlier.

Agreed . This all goes back to Grunfeld and his poor evaluation/lack of ambition . Looks at a team that wins 45-50 games and competes in the second round, squints his eyes and convinces himself (and Ted) that he's got a Finals contender. Looks at a player that has a hot streak, squints at his eyes and imagines them as a consistent All-Star. Unfortunately Leonsis, who doesn't understand how the NBA works, buys it hook line and sinker and continues giving Ernie extensions on the basis that he's made all these awesome moves.

Markieff had a really good 2-3 month stretch in 2017 where he played damn near like an All-Star, but outside of that stretch (when we had the 17-game home win streak) he's never been close to that level again. It seems like he became a made man in the Wizards organization and ever since then has never been held accountable for his poor play. I also think he negatively impacted the rest of our core players in the locker room - Keef has this overinflated opinion of himself (I remember him saying he was better than Paul Millsap. lol) and is always the one talking about "we're better than Boston, we were the better team etc" .. then will go out and make boneheaded plays and dumb tech fouls.

Scott Brooks is clearly intimidated by him and won't say anything , and is afraid to bench him. Markieff should have been benched against Dallas with the way he was playing, but Brooks subbed him in and he killed our chances of making the comeback. His brother is basically the same talent level and is a 25mpg player off the bench in Boston, yet the Wizards have elevated Keef into this core starter when they should have been aggressively looking to upgrade that position for years now.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Bridges will be a good compliment, but his ceiling is a Covington type player.

I agree in general with most of what you're saying but I disagree on Bridges. I don't totally hate the Covington comparison but he's a significantly better shooter than Convington and Covington with a better shot is an allstar. Honestly, for defensive reasons I'm not sure which of Ayton or Bridges winds up being the better player. Bridges is really good. He may never hit his ceiling and Ayton may very well be a much better player but Bridges can flat out play.

[pcbothwel]

quote="badinage"]Wall to PHX for Elie Okobo, Josh Jackson, and their 2019 first-round pick. ...
No chance I take that for Beal. I like Okobo, but he was a 2nd round pick a few months ago and has done nothing since.

Josh Jackson is a bust. ...

Personnally, I think the Suns team is in bad shape. They whiffed badly on Bender, Chriss, and Jackson.
I think Booker is highly overrated and never becomes an elite offensive player while being a sieve on Defense.
Ayton looks great, but If he is your best player by far then you are a 30 win team.
Bridges will be a good compliment, but his ceiling is a Covington type player.

I think this is a Lotto team for the next 4-5 year without question.

I agree entirely about the Suns as a team. & all the more about Booker.

Which means, of course, that they are very likely to have 1 of the top 3 picks next year. Hence the trade, in essence, gives us Okobo (who is a promising rookie) & the #1, 2 or 3 pick next year in return for Beal. The trade also gets us out of the tax this year & makes it possible to stay out of the tax next year as well.

That's a lot. By saying "No chance I take that..." you imply that you think we can get more than that for Beal. I'd be quite surprised if that were true.

I think that's a terrific trade for us. Naturally, I'd like them to give us Richaun Holmes as well. & DeAnthony Melton too -- as long as we're asking.

I'd also be happy to throw in Austin Rivers & take back Ryan Anderson. We still get out of the tax, & they save some $. Best of all, Rivers helps insure that they have that 1-3 pick.

Who knows? Maybe we could get a R2 pick for Jackson instead of just letting him go? Probably not....

Out: Bradley Beal & Austin Rivers
In: #1-3 pick in 2019, Ryan Anderson, Elie Okobo, Richaun Holmes & DeAnthony Melton.

We would have to waive Chasson Randle to get down to 15. We'd be under the tax by @$1m.

PIF,
Dont disagree...but PHX isnt trading for Beal with Booker. So its a wasted discussion.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

quote="badinage"]Wall to PHX for Elie Okobo, Josh Jackson, and their 2019 first-round pick. ...
No chance I take that for Beal. I like Okobo, but he was a 2nd round pick a few months ago and has done nothing since.

Josh Jackson is a bust. ...

Personnally, I think the Suns team is in bad shape. They whiffed badly on Bender, Chriss, and Jackson.
I think Booker is highly overrated and never becomes an elite offensive player while being a sieve on Defense.
Ayton looks great, but If he is your best player by far then you are a 30 win team.
Bridges will be a good compliment, but his ceiling is a Covington type player.

I think this is a Lotto team for the next 4-5 year without question.

I agree entirely about the Suns as a team. & all the more about Booker.

Which means, of course, that they are very likely to have 1 of the top 3 picks next year. Hence the trade, in essence, gives us Okobo (who is a promising rookie) & the #1, 2 or 3 pick next year in return for Beal. The trade also gets us out of the tax this year & makes it possible to stay out of the tax next year as well.

That's a lot. By saying "No chance I take that..." you imply that you think we can get more than that for Beal. I'd be quite surprised if that were true.

I think that's a terrific trade for us. Naturally, I'd like them to give us Richaun Holmes as well. & DeAnthony Melton too -- as long as we're asking.

I'd also be happy to throw in Austin Rivers & take back Ryan Anderson. We still get out of the tax, & they save some $. Best of all, Rivers helps insure that they have that 1-3 pick.

Who knows? Maybe we could get a R2 pick for Jackson instead of just letting him go? Probably not....

Out: Bradley Beal & Austin Rivers
In: #1-3 pick in 2019, Ryan Anderson, Elie Okobo, Richaun Holmes & DeAnthony Melton.

We would have to waive Chasson Randle to get down to 15. We'd be under the tax by @$1m.

Trade for Jackson and Holmes.

THEN the Wizards would be set.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Was just thinking, what are the salary cap implications of trading Wall now if the Wizarde have to pay out a lump sum 15% trade kicker?

Does that all hit the cap this year? If so, then we can forgetaboutit, lol.

Right.

John is not going anywhere.



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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The only player who I honestly think is inherently negative to chemistry is Markieff . If we exchanged Markieff for a no-nonsense starting PF, swapped Oubre for say, Ariza, and ran it back with a new head coach I think the Wall/Beal/Porter core would be much more successful. But Ernie has already gotten the team so far down the hole with salaries that it'll be difficult to find that glue guy frontcourt player , unless we land a diamond in the rough ala Draymond.

I don't think the salary cap is the issue with respect to the Morris situation.

Washington has had opportunities to address the position. How many times has Ilyasova for example been on the move now?

The trouble is that Grunfeld thinks Morris is a productive player, heck, there's even evidence to suggest that they consider him a core piece.

That's where it starts. To Ernest this is a borderline All-Star that can defend multiple positions, that brings toughness and that can score.

None of those things are true of course.

Morris can't be bothered to put forth effort more than once every blue moon, he doesn't defend anybody, can't rebound worth a damn and is a net negative on offense the vast majority of times.

The trouble with Grunfeld is that he imagines players at their best being their normal, and that there's some sort of magic formula out there that will result in them consistently playing that way.

So when Morris pops off like he did against the Blazers he'll be like, "see, I told you the kid can play!", completely ignoring that this was just a statistical outlier.

Agreed . This all goes back to Grunfeld and his poor evaluation/lack of ambition . Looks at a team that wins 45-50 games and competes in the second round, squints his eyes and convinces himself (and Ted) that he's got a Finals contender. Looks at a player that has a hot streak, squints at his eyes and imagines them as a consistent All-Star. Unfortunately Leonsis, who doesn't understand how the NBA works, buys it hook line and sinker and continues giving Ernie extensions on the basis that he's made all these awesome moves.

Markieff had a really good 2-3 month stretch in 2017 where he played damn near like an All-Star, but outside of that stretch (when we had the 17-game home win streak) he's never been close to that level again. It seems like he became a made man in the Wizards organization and ever since then has never been held accountable for his poor play. I also think he negatively impacted the rest of our core players in the locker room - Keef has this overinflated opinion of himself (I remember him saying he was better than Paul Millsap. lol) and is always the one talking about "we're better than Boston, we were the better team etc" .. then will go out and make boneheaded plays and dumb tech fouls.

Scott Brooks is clearly intimidated by him and won't say anything , and is afraid to bench him. Markieff should have been benched against Dallas with the way he was playing, but Brooks subbed him in and he killed our chances of making the comeback. His brother is basically the same talent level and is a 25mpg player off the bench in Boston, yet the Wizards have elevated Keef into this core starter when they should have been aggressively looking to upgrade that position for years now.

The thing about Scott Brooks being "intimidated" is if true IT MAKES ZERO SENSE.

$35M is guaranteed. After this season $14M, regardless.

2-8 and at THE BOTTOM except for Lue/Lebronless Cleveland and same record Phoenix. Coach is already be tuned out.

Now, with Howard healthy and a FULL ROSTER is the time for a supposedly good coach TO TEACH WHILE PLAYERS LEARN. SB needs to sell hope tix and he needs to SHOW he has a huge pair of balls.



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[queridiculo]

The thing about Scott Brooks being "intimidated" is if true IT MAKES ZERO SENSE.

$35M is guaranteed. After this season $14M, regardless.

2-8 and at THE BOTTOM except for Lue/Lebronless Cleveland and same record Phoenix. Coach is already be tuned out.

Now, with Howard healthy and a FULL ROSTER is the time for a supposedly good coach TO TEACH WHILE PLAYERS LEARN. SB needs to sell hope tix and he needs to SHOW he has a huge pair of balls.

I found this quote from an on air interview with Brooks referenced in the Post piece somewhat troubling.

Coincidentally, during his weekly appearance with the Sports Junkies on 106.7 The Fan, the mild-mannered Brooks was asked about his ability to “play the bad cop” with his players when necessary.

“It’s a players’s league, but it’s an effort league,” Brooks said. “If you want to have a good team, you gotta play with great effort. You can’t coach the players like you would be coaching college. You can’t coach the players like I was coached in the ’80s or ’90s. It’s a different way of doing things. You have to be able to get through to guys, but you gotta have the right guys being able to do it, too. You have to have guys that are committed to doing it, too. If you have that, then your job becomes to really coach the technical side of things. We have to give better defensive effort. I have to do a better job of making sure we are into the game plan.”

What this sounds like to me is a guy that's afraid to ruffle feathers and coach players.

He's making a bunch of excuses about how players of today are different etc., but I can guarantee you one thing hasn't changed.

These guys want to win, and there are plenty of coaches around the league that have proven that if you can earn the players respect you CAN coach them like you would be coaching college players.

It's also curious that Brooks is basically making a case for being relieved from his duty with his comment.

These guys have played with up and down effort since he's arrived here, so following his logic he's unable to get through to them so it's either getting the right players, whatever that means, or getting rid of the coach.

[dckingsfan]

So, we are saying we need to trade Brooks - are there any teams that would trade their coach?