Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII

[hands11]

CHA and BOS are probably the two teams most hungry for the 8th slot.

Gotta wonder if IND would rather tank for the best pick they can get at this point. They had a chance to make a run but at 17-31 and 2-8 over the last 10 games. Gotta wonder if they really want to make the playoffs.

Sure, making them is always good.

Just not sure what they would be thinking right now.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/indiana.htm" target="_blank

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings" target="_blank

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/schedule/_/ ... ana-pacers" target="_blank

[LyricalRico]

CHA and BOS are probably the two teams most hungry for the 8th slot.

Gotta wonder is IND would rather tank for the best pick they can get at this point. They had a chance to make a run but at 17-31 and 2-8 over the last 10 games. Gotta wonder if they really want to make the playoffs.

Sure, making them is always good.

Just not sure what they would be thinking right now.

You could be right about Indy. Here's how I'd rank those 3 teams in terms of who goes for the playoffs the hardest:

CHA
IND
BOS

I think MJ is desperate to get the Hornets back to the playoffs. Indy is probably on the fence, but they don't seem like a tanking kind of organization to me. Actually, Boston seems most likely to rather have the lottery pick after completely dismantling their squad.

[miller31time]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/561213569426284545[/tweet]

Do we throw a 2nd rounder at them and see if they bite? Lord knows the 2nd rounder would be sold for cash or simply provide EG a European vacation anyway...

[nate33]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/561213569426284545[/tweet]

Do we throw a 2nd rounder at them and see if they bite? Lord knows the 2nd rounder would be sold for cash or simply provide EG a European vacation anyway...

If we were picking in the 31-40 range, I'd be hesitant about giving up a pick, but we're going to pick 51st or so. Historically, nobody good ever gets drafted in the 50-60 range.

In the last 9 years (99 picks between 50 and 60) there has been exactly one good player drafted: Isaiah Thomas. Two other decent players were drafted: De Colo and Mills. You have to go all the way back to the draft of 2005 to find some more good players. Amir Johnson and Gortat went 56th and 57th in that draft. However, both guys were late-bloomers whose value didn't get recognized until free agency. Neither played more than 1100 minutes in any season while under their rookie deal.

[TheSecretWeapon]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/561213569426284545[/tweet]

Do we throw a 2nd rounder at them and see if they bite? Lord knows the 2nd rounder would be sold for cash or simply provide EG a European vacation anyway...

If we were picking in the 31-40 range, I'd be hesitant about giving up a pick, but we're going to pick 51st or so. Historically, nobody good ever gets drafted in the 50-60 range.

In the last 9 years (99 picks between 50 and 60) there has been exactly one good player drafted: Isaiah Thomas. Two other decent players were drafted: De Colo and Mills. You have to go all the way back to the draft of 2005 to find some more good players. Amir Johnson and Gortat went 56th and 57th in that draft. However, both guys were late-bloomers whose value didn't get recognized until free agency. Neither played more than 1100 minutes in any season while under their rookie deal.

You KNOW that words like "nobody" and "ever" are begging for a contrarian response, right?

While MOST players picked in that 50-60 range don't become significant contributors, they do show up from time to time. From the last 10 drafts:

- Amir Johnson
- Marcin Gortat
- Ramon Sessions
- Isaiah Thomas
- Ryan Gomes
- Patty Mills

Then some other guys who have shown some flashes or made contributions like: Ryan Hollins, Lavoy Allen, AJ Price, Nando De Colo, James Ennis.

From 1985-2004 (start of the lottery era, ending before the group listed above), players picked from 50-60 include:

- Manu Ginobili
- Anthony Mason
- Kyle Korver
- Steve Kerr
- Sam Mitchell
- Luis Scola
- Fred Hoiberg
- Shandon Anderson
- Drazen Petrovic
- Rasual Butler
- Lawrence Funderburke
- Donald Royal

Just eyeballing the count, it looks like a contributor gets found in the 50-60 range roughly every other year. Obviously not a high payoff, but definitely more than "nobody" or "ever".

[jivelikenice]

Give them the 2nd round pick and move on....

[payitforward]

Kevin -- I do think that *undrafted* guys should be on this list as well -- after all, the question is "how valuable is a pick in the 50-60 range?" Well, one thing you can do it with it is pick someone who in fact went undrafted.

[miller31time]

All of this is well and good but I see it as getting Mo Williams for free (if they accept a 2nd round pick for him) because the likelihood is that we sell the pick anyway.

[nate33]

You KNOW that words like "nobody" and "ever" are begging for a contrarian response, right?

While MOST players picked in that 50-60 range don't become significant contributors, they do show up from time to time. From the last 10 drafts:

- Amir Johnson
- Marcin Gortat
- Ramon Sessions
- Isaiah Thomas
- Ryan Gomes
- Patty Mills

Then some other guys who have shown some flashes or made contributions like: Ryan Hollins, Lavoy Allen, AJ Price, Nando De Colo, James Ennis.

From 1985-2004 (start of the lottery era, ending before the group listed above), players picked from 50-60 include:

- Manu Ginobili
- Anthony Mason
- Kyle Korver
- Steve Kerr
- Sam Mitchell
- Luis Scola
- Fred Hoiberg
- Shandon Anderson
- Drazen Petrovic
- Rasual Butler
- Lawrence Funderburke
- Donald Royal

Just eyeballing the count, it looks like a contributor gets found in the 50-60 range roughly every other year. Obviously not a high payoff, but definitely more than "nobody" or "ever".

Well, I did mention Thomas, Mills, Gortat and Johnson. The only other guys in the last 9 years that you named are Gomes and Sessions. Gomes was an undersized, overweight defensive sieve, who was available for the vet minimum when his rookie contract expired. That "flashes" group is no better that what one would expect to find on waivers every year. Sessions is a good catch though. He was a useful player by his 2nd season. Though, having only been signed to a 2-year deal, he left via free agency after that.

In 9 years, there have been exactly 3 players drafted 50th or higher who have been a bargain on a production/cost basis during their rookie deal relative to what was available on waivers. That's Isaiah Thomas, Ramon Sessions and Patty Mills. 3 out of 99.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

2014 draft undrafted include Tarik Black, Langston Galloway, and Travis Wear.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

2013 undrafted: Will Cherry, Ian Clark, Robert Covington, Matthew Dellavadova, Brandon Davies, and Phil Pressey

2013 #50 2nd round pick James Ennis

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

2012 undrafted: Kent Bazemore, Jorge Gutierrez, Henry Sims, Hollis Thompson

2012 2nd round picks: #49 Kyle O'Quinn, #58 Ryan Kelly, #60 Robert Sacre

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

2011 undrafted: Dwight Buycks, Zoran Dragic, Ben Hansbrough, Justin Holiday, Xavier Silas, Greg Smith, Malcolm Thomas

2011 second round: #50 Lavoy Allen, #55 E'Twaun Moore, #60 Isaiah Thomas

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

In 9 years, there have been exactly 2 players drafted 50th or higher who have been a bargain on a production/cost basis during their rookie deal relative to what was available on waivers. That's Isaiah Thomas and Patty Mills.

Kent Bazemore of the Hawks plays significant minutes on a team that has not lost in quite a while.

Justin Holiday plays significant minutes on the team with the league's best record.

How would you rate Ryan Kelly, Phil Pressey, Tarik Black and Greg Smith (the Mavericks like him)? I would say each is a bargain in terms of production/cost!

Robert Covington might be every bit as good as Otto Porter.

I only went back five years but I think your premise is most incorrect, nate.

[nate33]

In 9 years, there have been exactly 2 players drafted 50th or higher who have been a bargain on a production/cost basis during their rookie deal relative to what was available on waivers. That's Isaiah Thomas and Patty Mills.

Kent Bazemore of the Hawks plays significant minutes on a team that has not lost in quite a while.

Justin Holiday plays significant minutes on the team with the league's best record.

How would you rate Ryan Kelly, Phil Pressey, Tarik Black and Greg Smith (the Mavericks like him)? I would say each is a bargain in terms of production/cost!

Robert Covington might be every bit as good as Otto Porter.

I only went back five years but I think your premise is most incorrect, nate.

CCJ, you are missing my point. I never said that you need a high pick to acquire talent. I agree with you that a prudent GM can find good young talent cheaply. I'm only saying that really late 2nd round picks are not particularly useful. At that point, it's a total crapshoot. You're better off just keeping the roster spot open and then scouring the D-League, summer leagues and training camps to fill the spot once you see these guys playing against NBA-caliber talent.

If you can use that late pick to acquire a respectable veteran that fills a need like Mo Williams, go ahead and do it. As you pointed out, there are plenty of other ways to acquire decent young talent.

[gambitx777]

I like the idea of a trade with the pacers but not for CJ Watson. I'm thinking this
Donald Sloan and Shayne Whittington
for
Blair, Thomas, and a 2016 second round pick - 2017 second if needed.

Sloan and Whittington would instantly get playing time over gooden and Miller. Sloan is a nice complement to wall. He is a solid defender and can pass well. Whittington is a decent young big body who can get you rebounds, blocks, steals and some points in low minutes, he is also a solid passer for a big dude. We can also cut Gooden after the deal is done so we can add another player.

Blair gives them a need, they need another center who gives them versatility. Plus it gives them that open spot to use that trade exception on and a couple of second round picks and a prospect to flip or keep for later.

[dckingsfan]

I think that EG would have to trade Miller before Witt decided on not using any of his vets...

[jangles86]

Mo Williams for 2nd rounder & Dejuan Blair (With or without Garrett Temple)
Mo Williams for 2nd & Andre Miller


Get'er done.

[gambitx777]

Donald Sloan, the more I think about trading for him the more I start to like the Idea.

[jivelikenice]

I'd prefer Stuckey. Gives you real scoring punch.