Discuss Ernie Grunfeld's GM skills here (Part 2)

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Marcin has been very solid for them. His numbers are good. Not in Harrell territory & not near, but he's contributing.

IOW, the Clippers were able to acquire a productive veteran player whom they don't have to keep beyond this year for a guy who is w/o question one of the bottom 20% of players in the NBA (while making $12.5m this year).

They improved their team; we got worse. That's all I can understand about that trade.

Harrell is kind of amazing -- especially in that he is the second incredible R2 bargain Center they picked -- DeAndre Jordan being the first.

[FAH1223]

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[I_Like_Dirt]

Harrell is kind of amazing -- especially in that he is the second incredible R2 bargain Center they picked -- DeAndre Jordan being the first.

The Rockets picked Harrell. He's only a Clipper thanks to the Chris Paul trade.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I laughed out loud at this line:

"We like to talk about the damaged Redskins fanbase and what they've been through," Loverro said. "Those are flesh wounds compared to what the basketball fans in this town have been through.

Amen.

The movie entitled, "Twelve Years a Slave", was about a free Black man who was essentially kidnapped and unlawfully enslaved for 12 grueling years. As a fan of the Wizards, I have been ruminating over and mostly loathing the work of one Ernie Grunfeld. At least a dozen years...

Just today the Lakers lost by 32 points to Denver. Lebron James had an off night. TWELVE YEAR PRO Paul Millsap had 20 and 11 in just over 20 minutes. Why do I bring this player up?

(Many of you recall)



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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Marcin has been very solid for them. His numbers are good. Not in Harrell territory & not near, but he's contributing.

IOW, the Clippers were able to acquire a productive veteran player whom they don't have to keep beyond this year for a guy who is w/o question one of the bottom 20% of players in the NBA (while making $12.5m this year).

They improved their team; we got worse. That's all I can understand about that trade.

Harrell is kind of amazing -- especially in that he is the second incredible R2 bargain Center they picked -- DeAndre Jordan being the first.

On top of that, DOC RIVERS RESPECTS this veteran enough to start Marcin Gortat while only giving up token minutes. Marcin communicates positively with his teammates. Dude never plays in the fourth quarter but he CONSISTENTLY is cheering for teammates. Standing at the bench. Ready and engaged, fully supportive of his teammates Harrell and Bobab Marinovic.

I'm glad by associated with a NEGATIVE, PLAYER HATING, poorly managed team didn't ruin Gortat or his legacy. He STARTS on the team with the beat record in the west at the moment.

Ironically, the Wizards beat the Clippers after Gortat fouls sent him to the bench (in his usual minutes played).

Gortat is 34-35 years old and on his last legs but is STILL a solid NBA player. Screen assists and rebounds are a constant. Selfless guy who is healthy and fit.

Harrell is way better, but content coming off the bench but finishing games. Good coach, too.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Marcin has been very solid for them. His numbers are good. Not in Harrell territory & not near, but he's contributing.

IOW, the Clippers were able to acquire a productive veteran player whom they don't have to keep beyond this year for a guy who is w/o question one of the bottom 20% of players in the NBA (while making $12.5m this year).

They improved their team; we got worse. That's all I can understand about that trade.

Harrell is kind of amazing -- especially in that he is the second incredible R2 bargain Center they picked -- DeAndre Jordan being the first.

Right. They IMPROVED as I rightly predicted. You knew as well Gortat did NOT quut.

Steven A is despotic as far as I'm concerned. Kisses EGs ass. Loves Brooks. Spouts a bunch.

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[TheBabyMaker]

Marcin has been very solid for them. His numbers are good. Not in Harrell territory & not near, but he's contributing.

IOW, the Clippers were able to acquire a productive veteran player whom they don't have to keep beyond this year for a guy who is w/o question one of the bottom 20% of players in the NBA (while making $12.5m this year).

They improved their team; we got worse. That's all I can understand about that trade.

Harrell is kind of amazing -- especially in that he is the second incredible R2 bargain Center they picked -- DeAndre Jordan being the first.

Right. They IMPROVED as I rightly predicted. You knew as well Gortat did NOT quut.

Steven A is despotic as far as I'm concerned. Kisses EGs ass. Loves Brooks. Spouts a bunch.

Sent from my SM-J337T using RealGM mobile app

I'm wrongful sorry, Id rather have Gortat back than this clown we have in Rivers. Me pesonaly would not have made that trade and you know I'm not a Gortat fan but he is one of the most maturists players in the league.

BTW did Steven A. ever call out John Wall to his face. He sounds like a loudmouth Punk to me that sucks EGD. Don't watch his shows.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Marcin has been very solid for them. His numbers are good. Not in Harrell territory & not near, but he's contributing.

IOW, the Clippers were able to acquire a productive veteran player whom they don't have to keep beyond this year for a guy who is w/o question one of the bottom 20% of players in the NBA (while making $12.5m this year).

They improved their team; we got worse. That's all I can understand about that trade.

Harrell is kind of amazing -- especially in that he is the second incredible R2 bargain Center they picked -- DeAndre Jordan being the first.

Right. They IMPROVED as I rightly predicted. You knew as well Gortat did NOT quut.

Steven A is despotic as far as I'm concerned. Kisses EGs ass. Loves Brooks. Spouts a bunch.

Sent from my SM-J337T using RealGM mobile app

I'm wrongful sorry, Id rather have Gortat back than this clown we have in Rivers. Me pesonaly would not have made that trade and you know I'm not a Gortat fan but he is one of the most maturists players in the league.

BTW did Steven A. ever call out John Wall to his face. He sounds like a loudmouth Punk to me that sucks EGD. Don't watch his shows.

Rivers is what he is...I'm actually liking the guy for speaking out and doing his best.

No need to apologize for being wrong because I KNOW YOU WOULD NOT HAVE...That was a dumb idea.

-Starting C
-Bench guy at dime-a-dozen position

Media and IMO NBA RACISM in the form of non-Negro bashing. (Forget players only...NothingButAfricans...NBA )

@CCJKEN1 on Twitter...if you need to know what I look like to see why I might have varied opinions from others

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

He seems like a punk ass to me as well ...but I RESPECT that he spoke to the Wizards in person.

Dude's been around the NBA and NFL a long time.

I hate his vindictive attitude. Calling for jobs. Clowning on people's names. Reversing course in ways sorta like EG--never does put self at risk per se. Snipes at the weak or lowly/vulnerable figures in sports.

It is what it is...

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[BigA]

I laughed out loud at this line:

"We like to talk about the damaged Redskins fanbase and what they've been through," Loverro said. "Those are flesh wounds compared to what the basketball fans in this town have been through.

Amen.

The movie entitled, "Twelve Years a Slave", was about a free Black man who was essentially kidnapped and unlawfully enslaved for 12 grueling years. As a fan of the Wizards, I have been ruminating over and mostly loathing the work of one Ernie Grunfeld. At least a dozen years...

Just today the Lakers lost by 32 points to Denver. Lebron James had an off night. TWELVE YEAR PRO Paul Millsap had 20 and 11 in just over 20 minutes. Why do I bring this player up?

(Many of you recall)

The movie they're making about Ernie is tentatively titled "Fifteen Years a Douchebag."

[FAH1223]

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[nate33]

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Kevin is right. Ernie is really bad as a GM, but Wes Unseld was on the short list of worst-of-all-time bad GMs.

I think that's one of the reasons EG is still around. The Wizards have never known competence from a GM. Their expectations are way too low. John Nash was lousy too.

[The Consiglieri]

In fairness to Unseld (and I have no idea why I'm being fair to him w/regards to his GM work), that abomination of a trade was all about this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1998/11/13/judge-rules-woman-must-pay-for-defaming-juwan-howard/309ce8b0-932b-405d-a2da-960e69219669/?utm_term=.11428ff8391d

Twenty years ago Howard and Webber were coming off a horrifying debacle of a season, positive pot test rumors, and then this sexual assault lie hit the press, and the team basically immediately kicked Webber to the curb to get out of the news cycle. It was literally the stupidest, most moronic, most horse ---- trade of the nineties, and EVERYONE EVERYWHERE knew we were swindled the second the trade was announced. You don't trade young and big for old and small, and yet we did it twice in two ----ing years (sending out Wallace for Strickland, and then two years later Webber for Richmond). I imagine that even though Howard was the subject of the fictional complaint, with both Howard and Webber implicated, they just wanted to do a deal to get out of that cycle one way or the other.

Maybe I'm naive but I just find it hard to believe that anyone sane could make a trade like that purely for basketball reasons. It smelled like an owner getting it in both ears from friends or having these sorts of players on his team, and ordering his GM to make an idiotic trade. Of course I could be wrong. As mentioned earlier, we made a similarly horrible trade two years earlier for Rod Strickland and Duckworth, and would later deal Ben Wallace for a used Ike Austin Jersey, and Rip Hamilton for a box of Mike and Ike's and an Almond Joy.

So it's not like grand Mal stupidity was beyond Wes, or Jordan for that matter, and certainly not EG.

The biggest problem with EG, is that he's been allowed to be around for three god ----ed botched rebuilds of the wizards. How in the hell is that justified? You guys need to leave the arena empty until the clown is fired. If Ted allows him to do ANY trade whatsoever w/the last remaining assets of his latest crap rebuild, NOBODY in DC should attend a game until EG is fired, or Ted sells the team period. You don't allow an incompetent on his last legs (really since 2009) GM trade young assets or picks EVER, you fire them before they can do that, and nix any such idiotic deal.

What the hell is wrong with Ted? Well, AOL, so we know he aint a genius. But it's also worth mentioning he totally botched the Caps GM position as well allowing GMGM to throw priceless assets away for nothing before he fired him in trades very much analogous to the Webber trade, just in a less well followed sport.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

In fairness to Unseld (and I have no idea why I'm being fair to him w/regards to his GM work), that abomination of a trade was all about this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1998/11/13/judge-rules-woman-must-pay-for-defaming-juwan-howard/309ce8b0-932b-405d-a2da-960e69219669/?utm_term=.11428ff8391d

Twenty years ago Howard and Webber were coming off a horrifying debacle of a season, positive pot test rumors, and then this sexual assault lie hit the press, and the team basically immediately kicked Webber to the curb to get out of the news cycle. It was literally the stupidest, most moronic, most horse ---- trade of the nineties, and EVERYONE EVERYWHERE knew we were swindled the second the trade was announced. You don't trade young and big for old and small, and yet we did it twice in two ----ing years (sending out Wallace for Strickland, and then two years later Webber for Richmond). I imagine that even though Howard was the subject of the fictional complaint, with both Howard and Webber implicated, they just wanted to do a deal to get out of that cycle one way or the other.

Maybe I'm naive but I just find it hard to believe that anyone sane could make a trade like that purely for basketball reasons. It smelled like an owner getting it in both ears from friends or having these sorts of players on his team, and ordering his GM to make an idiotic trade. Of course I could be wrong. As mentioned earlier, we made a similarly horrible trade two years earlier for Rod Strickland and Duckworth, and would later deal Ben Wallace for a used Ike Austin Jersey, and Rip Hamilton for a box of Mike and Ike's and an Almond Joy.

So it's not like grand Mal stupidity was beyond Wes, or Jordan for that matter, and certainly not EG.

The biggest problem with EG, is that he's been allowed to be around for three god ----ed botched rebuilds of the wizards. How in the hell is that justified? You guys need to leave the arena empty until the clown is fired. If Ted allows him to do ANY trade whatsoever w/the last remaining assets of his latest crap rebuild, NOBODY in DC should attend a game until EG is fired, or Ted sells the team period. You don't allow an incompetent on his last legs (really since 2009) GM trade young assets or picks EVER, you fire them before they can do that, and nix any such idiotic deal.

What the hell is wrong with Ted? Well, AOL, so we know he aint a genius. But it's also worth mentioning he totally botched the Caps GM position as well allowing GMGM to throw priceless assets away for nothing before he fired him in trades very much analogous to the Webber trade, just in a less well followed sport.

https://ca.nba.com/news/nba-players-of-the-week-kawhi-leonard-toronto-raptors-paul-millsap-denver-nuggets/1hacqlltapnmj1eu8k1lynhqwm

NBA Players of the Week: Kawhi Leonard of the Toronto Raptors and Paul Millsap of the Denver Nuggets

This is Leonard's fifth time taking home Player of the Week honours and Millsap's first time since the 2015-16 season

Way back in 2005 there was debate over who the Wizards should draft. PAUL MILLSAP was the name I shouted from the rafters, so to speak. I remember the talk of his being from LA Tech, a very small program. Dude is 34 and STILL at the top of his game. http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Paul-Millsap-299/

Ernie didn't know. HE DRAFTED OLEKSIY PECHEROV.

Later, the debacle of the 2011 draft. I liked virtually everyone EXCEPT FOR TWO players. "Don't draft Jan Vesely or Chris Singleton".

In addition to Kawhi Leonard, I liked Kenneth Faried and Marshon Brooks. OTHERS liked a host of good players like Klay Thompson and Nikola Vucevic. But WHO does EG draft? Jan Vesely.

EG has skills to stay employed. He knows how to keep his job despite results.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

In fairness to Unseld (and I have no idea why I'm being fair to him w/regards to his GM work), that abomination of a trade was all about this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1998/11/13/judge-rules-woman-must-pay-for-defaming-juwan-howard/309ce8b0-932b-405d-a2da-960e69219669/?utm_term=.11428ff8391d

Twenty years ago Howard and Webber were coming off a horrifying debacle of a season, positive pot test rumors, and then this sexual assault lie hit the press, and the team basically immediately kicked Webber to the curb to get out of the news cycle. It was literally the stupidest, most moronic, most horse ---- trade of the nineties, and EVERYONE EVERYWHERE knew we were swindled the second the trade was announced. You don't trade young and big for old and small, and yet we did it twice in two ----ing years (sending out Wallace for Strickland, and then two years later Webber for Richmond). I imagine that even though Howard was the subject of the fictional complaint, with both Howard and Webber implicated, they just wanted to do a deal to get out of that cycle one way or the other.

Maybe I'm naive but I just find it hard to believe that anyone sane could make a trade like that purely for basketball reasons. It smelled like an owner getting it in both ears from friends or having these sorts of players on his team, and ordering his GM to make an idiotic trade. Of course I could be wrong. As mentioned earlier, we made a similarly horrible trade two years earlier for Rod Strickland and Duckworth, and would later deal Ben Wallace for a used Ike Austin Jersey, and Rip Hamilton for a box of Mike and Ike's and an Almond Joy.

So it's not like grand Mal stupidity was beyond Wes, or Jordan for that matter, and certainly not EG.

The biggest problem with EG, is that he's been allowed to be around for three god ----ed botched rebuilds of the wizards. How in the hell is that justified? You guys need to leave the arena empty until the clown is fired. If Ted allows him to do ANY trade whatsoever w/the last remaining assets of his latest crap rebuild, NOBODY in DC should attend a game until EG is fired, or Ted sells the team period. You don't allow an incompetent on his last legs (really since 2009) GM trade young assets or picks EVER, you fire them before they can do that, and nix any such idiotic deal.

What the hell is wrong with Ted? Well, AOL, so we know he aint a genius. But it's also worth mentioning he totally botched the Caps GM position as well allowing GMGM to throw priceless assets away for nothing before he fired him in trades very much analogous to the Webber trade, just in a less well followed sport.

https://ca.nba.com/news/nba-players-of-the-week-kawhi-leonard-toronto-raptors-paul-millsap-denver-nuggets/1hacqlltapnmj1eu8k1lynhqwm

NBA Players of the Week: Kawhi Leonard of the Toronto Raptors and Paul Millsap of the Denver Nuggets

This is Leonard's fifth time taking home Player of the Week honours and Millsap's first time since the 2015-16 season

Way back in 2005 there was debate over who the Wizards should draft. PAUL MILLSAP was the name I shouted from the rafters, so to speak. I remember the talk of his being from LA Tech, a very small program. Dude is 34 and STILL at the top of his game. http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Paul-Millsap-299/

Ernie didn't know. HE DRAFTED OLEKSIY PECHEROV.

Later, the debacle of the 2011 draft. I liked virtually everyone EXCEPT FOR TWO players. "Don't draft Jan Vesely or Chris Singleton".

In addition to Kawhi Leonard, I liked Kenneth Faried and Marshon Brooks. OTHERS liked a host of good players like Klay Thompson and Nikola Vucevic. But WHO does EG draft? Jan Vesely.

EG has skills to stay employed. He knows how to keep his job despite results.

[payitforward]

The strange thing is that it is impossible to say what would be sufficient set of conditions for Ernie to be relieved of his duties. That is, right now we project to win 32 games. If we go on to do exactly that, would that suffice to get Ernie fired?

Put another way, after starting 2-9, we have gone 7-5 in our last 12 games. Can Ted think we've somehow righted the ship?

Can he think so, even though 4 of those wins were at home over teams with a combined 17-30 road record? & 1 other win was against a team without its best player. & 1 other win was on the road against the Heat, who are 5-8 at home. & overall only 2 of those wins were against teams with a winning record. Put another way, we have one really good win in that stretch of 12 games -- beating the Clippers.

I fear that it does seem possible, even likely, that Ted imagines us to have gotten past our problems, fixed them. That he's relieved because he thinks we're doing well. Somehow.

I don't know how many of you have ever run an organization, but I can tell you this -- when an employee has no standard of success he has to meet, when there is essentially no penalty for failure, that is a sick organization, & it will fail.

[TGW]

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[closg00]

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Oof!!!! Just noticing this, Ernie trades-away as-many of those 2nd rounders as possible so he doesn’t have to manage assets or “save money”

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

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Kevin is right. Ernie is really bad as a GM, but Wes Unseld was on the short list of worst-of-all-time bad GMs.

I think that's one of the reasons EG is still around. The Wizards have never known competence from a GM. Their expectations are way too low. John Nash was lousy too.

I DISAGREE. THUS, THIS BE ONE OF THEM TIMES ALL Y'ALL ARE ABOUT TO LEARN IF YOU PAY ATTENTION...


Kevin isn't always right. When I disagree with him, he's wrong.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/unselwe01x.html

July 15, 1996: Traded Mitchell Butler and Rasheed Wallace to the Portland Trail Blazers for Harvey Grant and Rod Strickland.

July 15, 1996: Signed Tracy Murray as a free agent.

July 26, 1996: Signed Lorenzo Williams as a free agent.

September 4, 1996: Signed Ashraf Amaya as a free agent.

October 2, 1996: Signed Matt Fish as a free agent.

October 2, 1996: Signed Jaren Jackson as a free agent.

October 2, 1996: Signed Ben Wallace as a free agent.

February 5, 1997: Fired Jim Lynam as Head Coach.

February 5, 1997: Appointed Bob Staak as Interim Head Coach.

February 10, 1997: Hired Bernie Bickerstaff as Head Coach.

February 20, 1997: Signed Gaylon Nickerson to the first of two 10-day contracts.

June 25, 1997: Selected God Shammgod (2nd round, 45th pick) and Predrag Drobnjak (2nd round, 48th pick) in the 1997 NBA Draft.

September 30, 1997: Signed Darvin Ham as a free agent.

October 7, 1997: Signed Charles Shackleford as a free agent.

October 27, 1997: Signed Terry Davis as a free agent.

October 30, 1997: Signed Jimmy Oliver as a free agent.

February 9, 1998: Signed Lawrence Moten to a 10-day contract.

May 14, 1998: Traded Chris Webber to the Sacramento Kings for Mitch Richmond and Otis Thorpe.

June 24, 1998: Selected Jahidi White (2nd round, 43rd pick) in the 1998 NBA Draft.

January 21, 1999: Signed Etdrick Bohannon as a free agent.

January 21, 1999: Signed Jeff McInnis as a free agent.

January 21, 1999: Signed Randell Jackson as a free agent.

March 18, 1999: Signed John Coker to the first of two 10-day contracts.

April 8, 1999: Signed John Coker to a contract for the rest of the season.

June 16, 1999: Hired Gar Heard as Head Coach.

June 30, 1999: Selected Richard Hamilton (1st round, 7th pick) and Calvin Booth (2nd round, 35th pick) in the 1999 NBA Draft.

August 11, 1999: Traded Terry Davis, Tim Legler, Jeff McInnis and Ben Wallace to the Orlando Magic for Isaac Austin.

August 17, 1999: Signed Aaron Williams as a free agent.

August 19, 1999: Signed Jonathan Kerner as a free agent.

September 20, 1999: Signed Gerard King as a free agent.

September 22, 1999: Traded a 2001 2nd round draft pick (Omar Cook was later selected) to the Orlando Magic for Laron Profit.

October 1, 1999: Signed Michael Smith as a free agent.

October 1, 1999: Signed Reggie Jordan as a free agent.

WES made TWO BAD TRADES and one was cuz his DADDY, MR. POLLIN insisted. That Webber thing was FUBAR. Not on Wes IMO.

Otherwise, the body of works SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.

ERNIE IS CONSIDERABLY WORSE OVER 15 YEARS than Wes. THE NERVE that you guys would put HOF player, GOOD head coach (always had crap talent), and BAD but NOT FREAKING HORRIBLE LIKE ERNIE GRUNFELD as an Executive.

Wes hired Bernie Bickerstaff, who gave the Bulls a GOOD FIGHT in the playoffs.
Wes drafted Rip Hamilton and real good 2nd round pick Calvin Booth. Who has Wes drafted outside of lottery EXCEPT GOOD 2nd round pick Andray Blatche. (I love the last few drafts but cannot forgive EG for the CRAP over the years).

Wes was a better executive the Ernie. PERIOD.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

WHO ELSE?



If I'm going to be cray cray I can at least dispense with false modesty. I'm usually right.