Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[nate33]

Here's a question:

Suppose we had the #1 pick in the draft -- would you trade it for Joel Embiid? Or would you hold on to it, & draft James Wiseman?

(I know that wouldn't be legal as a straight-up trade, but forget that for a moment)

Embiid, for sure.

Add Wall and Embiid to the current roster and we're a contender.

[Ruzious]

Of course, Philly wouldn't do that, and if they would, we'd have to include some trade filler.

[pcbothwel]

Of course, Philly wouldn't do that, and if they would, we'd have to include some trade filler.

I think I would pass. The only way to make it work is if we add in Thomas Bryant, Ish Smith, and Rui... No way in Hell am I giving up TB and Rui along with the 1st pick in the draft for a Bigman that is perpetually hurt.

The Salaries simply dont match unless you throw in Rui and/or Troy Brown.

[gambitx777]

I would rather take James Wiseman. He hasn't show health issues yet and even if he's embid lite. He's 18-19 and cost controlled for 5 years.

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[nate33]

I would rather take James Wiseman. He hasn't show health issues yet and even if he's embid lite. He's 18-19 and cost controlled for 5 years.

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I get this sentiment. If we didn't already have an All-NBA PG at the tail end of his prime and another All-Star SG at his peak, I could buy the argument of taking the long term asset over an injury-prone Embiid.

But that's not the case. The fact is, we do have two star players in their prime, and the opportunity to add a top 10 player at the center position should not be passed up.

But as Ruzious points out, this is a pointless discussion. It would cost way more than Wiseman and filler to get Embiid.

[gambitx777]

I wouldn't call it pointless but he'll I'm still hopeful Wiseman falls to us one way or another. I think he fits the team well and he has a lot of potential . That would allow us to bring Bryant off the bench which is where he plays his best ball imo.

I would rather take James Wiseman. He hasn't show health issues yet and even if he's embid lite. He's 18-19 and cost controlled for 5 years.

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I get this sentiment. If we didn't already have an All-NBA PG at the tail end of his prime and another All-Star SG at his peak, I could buy the argument of taking the long term asset over an injury-prone Embiid.

But that's not the case. The fact is, we do have two star players in their prime, and the opportunity to add a top 10 player at the center position should not be passed up.

But as Ruzious points out, this is a pointless discussion. It would cost way more than Wiseman and filler to get Embiid.

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[payitforward]

I would rather take James Wiseman. He hasn't show health issues yet and even if he's embid lite. He's 18-19 and cost controlled for 5 years.

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I get this sentiment. If we didn't already have an All-NBA PG at the tail end of his prime and another All-Star SG at his peak, I could buy the argument of taking the long term asset over an injury-prone Embiid.

But that's not the case. The fact is, we do have two star players in their prime, and the opportunity to add a top 10 player at the center position should not be passed up.

But as Ruzious points out, this is a pointless discussion. It would cost way more than Wiseman and filler to get Embiid.

It's "pointless" in the sense that it could never happen -- not to mention that we don't have that #1 pick anyway!

But, I don't think it's pointless as something to ponder. As everyone knows, I'm pretty much always for trading down in the draft, because (to me at least) the data indicates that you usually do as well & can sometimes do much better. Yet, that leaves a question -- under what circumstances do you bet the long(er) shot?

It was doc comparing Wiseman's physical profile to David Robinson that raised the subject in my mind.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Simmons is like Magic Johnson without a shot.

Beal is like Jeff Malone on steroids. Bradley is a Joe Dumars but not as good defensively and maybe a little bit better offensively.

Simmons has a lot more to offer than what he is showing in Philadelphia. Philadelphia might win a championship with Beal. The Wizards would have to move Wall to SG.

Bradley is very good at what he does. Embiid playing with Beal might put Bradley in the Hall of Fame one day. That said the Wizards would be picking up a top talent if they acquired Ben Simmons.

Trading Beal for Simmons would be a disaster. Simmons is the same exact player he's been since .he came into his league. If you want Simmons that badly, wait for his value to fall and then pair him with Beal. Beal is just getting started. Coming off arguably the best month of his career. I can't think of one player that has gotten to where Brad is and stops improving. Each night he goes out and carries the offense. And pretty soon he'll have seen all the ways defenses can try to stop him. He is now 13th in the league in PER. And I expect that he will continue to climb. This season has been an adjustment for him due to the new role he's been asked to carry so it should come as no surprise that he's gotten better over time.

Personally I'm not a fan of Simmons. His lack of shooting is disastrous and he's soft. But Simmons' and Beal could potentially work. All in all, nothing has changed in my approach. We build around Beal. Talk of trading him now is even more silly than before. But if we are to trade him, I'd expect an Anthony Davis/Paul George esque return.

In addition, the Simmons Giannis comparisons are bizarre to me. Look at how much Giannis has improved each year. Then look at Simmons.

I mean... even this season with Beal scoring over 30 a game and Simmons starting out the season poorly and not being a great fit for Philly, Simmons has a 7.1 win share for the season, while Beal has a 4.8. And Simmons is about 3 years younger? Maybe there's a chance Simmons is a little better basketball player going forward?

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I totally agree. Ben Simmons needs to be in a 5 out system.

Ruz... prime is making a very serious point when it comes to Simmons. For a guy to be the same player at 23 as he was at 19 is greatly concerning. He has gotten worse across the board. Rebounding, Usage, AST% to TOV%, BPPM, On/Off, etc.

Sure, his TS is a little higher, but thats because he is simply shooting 60% of his FGA come within 3 feet of the basket.
The problem is people always look at Ben Simmons with a glass half full mindset...which is,
"look how good he his and he cant even shoot..."
The counter would be, he is so terrible as a shooter and limited offensively, that any decline either as a playmaker or defensively tanks his value as he cant shoot.
I HATE the comp to Giannis. Giannis has a usage above 30% each of the last 3 years and hasnt been below 20% since he was 20. His FT shooting hasnt been below 70% since he was a rookie and Simmons just crossed 60% this year at a meager 62%.

Simmons is more Kirilenko/Draymond than he is anywhere near Giannis.
His limitations, lack of improvement, and general apathy about being great are HUGE red flags

I think a big problem this year is that Philly constructed a roster even less suited to coexist with Simmons than the roster of last year.

In Simmons' rookie year, he had that long stretch with Embiid out and Redick, Bellineli, Covington and Ilyasova to spread the floor for him. That's why he was so good. This current roster is a terrible fit for Simmons. It's bad enough to pair him with Embiid, but at least give him a shooter better than Josh Richardson.

Look at how much Westbrook has played ever since Houston committed to a 5-out offense. Simmons would do the same.

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[nate33]

Bradley is a Joe Dumars but not as good defensively and maybe a little bit better offensively.

Bradley Beal is WAY better offensively than Joe Dumars.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

In the movie The Blind Side the character played by Sandra Bullock said Thank Me Later. I'm about to say something outrageous and you can thank me later.

Iff which means if and only if in mathematics) Beal take to court together and things don't go well and at the same time things are not working out so great for Simmons and Embiid; make just about any form of Beal trade you can make to get Simmons.

In about 3 years this guy will be able to score as well as Beal is right now.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2879041-liangelo-ball-reportedly-nearing-g-league-contract-agreement.amp.html

Yeah I said Liangelo the other Ball brother. He is an up and coming Jordan...McCrea.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Okay I'll buy that. I am getting older you know.

Bradley is a Joe Dumars but not as good defensively and maybe a little bit better offensively.

Bradley Beal is WAY better offensively than Joe Dumars.

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[gambitx777]

I man good for him! I hope he gets a deal somewhere

In the movie The Blind Side the character played by Sandra Bullock said Thank Me Later. I'm about to say something outrageous and you can thank me later.

Iff which means if and only if in mathematics) Beal take to court together and things don't go well and at the same time things are not working out so great for Simmons and Embiid; make just about any form of Beal trade you can make to get Simmons.

In about 3 years this guy will be able to score as well as Beal is right now.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2879041-liangelo-ball-reportedly-nearing-g-league-contract-agreement.amp.html

Yeah I said Liangelo the other Ball brother. He is an up and coming Jordan...McCrea.

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[payitforward]

I don't think Embiid is anywhere near as good as you guys think. I don't think he's as good as Nikola Jokic, & I don't think he's as good as Karl-Anthony Towns either.

Above all...

Spoiler:

I'm doing everything I can to move the conversation here away from the Beal-Simmons trade sinkhole!

[nate33]

I don't think Embiid is anywhere near as good as you guys think. I don't think he's as good as Nikola Jokic, & I don't think he's as good as Karl-Anthony Towns either.

Above all...

Spoiler:

I'm doing everything I can to move the conversation here away from the Beal-Simmons trade sinkhole!

Embiid is inconsistent and injury prone, but when he is at his best, he is easily the best of those 3 guys because he is such a game changer on defense. His defensive impact doesn't show up in the box score.

You can make the argument that KAT and Jokic are better 82-game players, but I don't think they can dominate a playoff series like Embiid can - particularly if you get some spacing around him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't think Embiid is anywhere near as good as you guys think. I don't think he's as good as Nikola Jokic, & I don't think he's as good as Karl-Anthony Towns either.

Above all...

Spoiler:

I'm doing everything I can to move the conversation here away from the Beal-Simmons trade sinkhole!

He's not, pif.

Just posted this in who's the best C:

Joker https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jokicni01.html
Joel https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/embiijo01.html
KAT https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/townska01.html

As of 3/3/2020, ninety-two percent of y'all are wrong. You didn't say Karl-Anthony Townes.



Embiid is by far the best at drawing fouls and scoring from the FT line.
The Joker is far far far better at passing the ball. His assists and assists/turnover margin is leagues better.

Karl-Anthony Towns is A FORTY PERCENT THREE POINT SHOOTER.

He shoots and converts from the outside like no other. HIS SCORING AND REBOUNDING IS EVERY BIT AS GOOD AS EMBIID. In fact, both Towns and Embiid average 23/2/3. Towns is a lot less turnover prone. He's also, A FAR BETTER PASSER THAN EMBIID and is trending higher on assists.

THE ANSWER is KAT.

Thanks to the rest of you for participating. Kudos to the elite 8 percent.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Right NOW, the Joker is the best equipped in the playoffs; but, I'd take KAT over him in a heartbeat.

[nate33]

Right NOW, the Joker is the best equipped in the playoffs; but, I'd take KAT over him in a heartbeat.

The problem with KAT is that he's a lousy defender.

If you center isn't that great on offense, you can find offense at other positions. But if your center stinks at defense, you're just not going to be a good defensive team. It's almost impossible to compensate for bad defense at the center position.

KAT is truly remarkable as an offensive player though.

[payitforward]

Interesting discussion...

Who are the ten best players in the league right now?

[nate33]

Interesting discussion...

Who are the ten best players in the league right now?

Giannis
Kawhi
Lebron
Davis
Doncic
Harden

Embiid
Jokic
Lillard
C.Paul

Those players in the top 6 are pretty much indisputable. Maybe someone can find someone else who they'd consider top 6, but not enough guys to bump any of those top 6 out of the top 10.

The last 4 players are a bit more debatable. I could listen to arguments for guys like Butler, Towns and Tatum.