NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 2

[Kanyewest]

Oh...this just in: Heat +11 In Finals With LeBron On Floor, -24 On Bench

After game 3, Heat -10 in Finals with LeBron on the floor, -22 on bench.

[dobrojim]

Leonard and Green were better than HOFers Lebron, Wade, and Allen - by a lot. I'm not sure basketball can be played much better than Leonard and Green played it - at both ends of the court.

your mention of the Heat having multiple HOFers (more than the Spurs) reminds
me that last year, Danny Green was poised to become Finals MVP after 5 games.
I posted at the time that NBA Finals MVPs were almost always HOFers in contrast
to MLB world series MVPs who quite often were shooting stars who go out in a blaze
of glory, hot for 2 weeks, then a reversion to their usual production.

Does this continue to bode more fairly for the Heat? Stay tuned.

[FAH1223]

Everyone says the Spurs are the older team. But they actually are the younger team and play with the much quicker pace than Miami.

[FAH1223]

Oh and here's a good write up on Leonard by Woj. Remembering Draft Night 2011

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-kawhi- ... 09439.html

The shy, reticent California kid responsible for transforming the San Antonio Spurs, delivering a gassed dynasty its second wind, had come to the franchise with brazen strength, a stout spirit and a flawed shot. Hours after the NBA draft three years ago, the Spurs hurried Kawhi Leonard through his "Welcome to the NBA" news conference and out onto the practice court with shooting coach Chip Engelland.

As the clock lurched toward midnight on July 1, Engelland worked to change Leonard's release point, reshaping his shot and retraining his mind to trust what suddenly felt so awkward. Time was running out together, and soon the Spurs would leave a 20-year-old to administer his own reclamation. No coaches, no calls, no contact.

"He had come in, worked with Chip for three days and then – the lockout happened," Spurs general manager R.C. Buford told Yahoo Sports on Tuesday night. "There was intention in the [shooting] prescription given him. It was not just drill work."

Five months passed, the lockout ended and it didn't take long for the Spurs to realize Leonard had dutifully done the work asked of him and returned a different basketball player. In the Spurs' wildest dreams, they imagined Leonard as a relentless rebounder and a determined defender. Yet once Leonard developed a shot, he had a chance to be a star. Most of all, the Spurs had a chance to retool the Big Three, supplement the supporting cast and make a run again.


Leonard had 29 points, two steals and two blocked shots in a telltale 111-92 victory over the Miami Heat in Game 3 of the NBA Finals. Leonard did a magnificent job on LeBron James, holding him to 22 points and playing a part in disrupting him into seven turnovers. No one could see this Spurs resurgence coming on Tuesday night, the way no one could see Leonard becoming this kind of a star, this kind of a franchise-changer in the winter of Tim Duncan's and Manu Ginobili's careers.

Leonard is the reason the Spurs are chasing championships again. He changed everything for the Spurs. He gave them size and strength and athleticism to partner with his calculating, cunning basketball mind. Eventually, he gave them a startling offensive game to go with his stifling defense. Against Oklahoma City and Miami, he gave them a defender for Kevin Durant and LeBron James. Yes, Kawhi Leonard gave the Spurs a chance again.

"You could've never predicted this," Buford said.

No one ever saw him coming on draft night three years ago. Before that draft, Leonard had to slow down his workout schedule with an Achilles and ankle injury, forcing him to skip a late June session with the Milwaukee Bucks. Between the poor shooting and those injury doubts, there was an uneasiness of teams on draft night. This gave the Spurs a chance.

Around 3 o'clock on draft day in 2011, Buford called Leonard's agent, Brian Elfus, in his New York hotel room. San Antonio had done a thorough job of scouting and researching Leonard, but this was the first time Elfus had heard directly from Buford on him. He had been projected too high of a draft pick for the Spurs to be able to bring him into town for a workout.

"How's he feeling?" Buford asked Elfus. The agent informed Buford that he had taken Leonard to a specialist in the city that day, and his Achilles and ankle had fully checked out. Buford had history with Elfus, the Spurs had a solid doctor's physical on Leonard and soon Buford was back shopping guard George Hill for a lottery pick.

The Spurs had a small list of players in the 2011 draft that they were willing to trade Hill to obtain. As the top part of the lottery passed, the Spurs expected the Utah Jazz to select Leonard at No. 12, only the Jazz passed on him for Alec Burks. Leonard kept falling. They were sure he'd go 13 or 14, but the Morris twins were selected back-to-back. Somehow, Leonard made it to the Pacers at No. 15. Somehow, they had him. The Pacers desperately needed a veteran guard, and had long valued Hill. The Spurs so adored Hill, had become so fond of him, and Buford and Gregg Popovich loved the idea – if they had to trade him – of sending Hill back to his hometown of Indianapolis.

"The next time I heard from the Spurs," Elfus said Tuesday night, "they called me as Kawhi was walking across the podium."

[closg00]

You're killing me FAH1223. We had Leonard in for pre-draft workouts but our genius GM couldn't get-past his fixation on Jan Vesely.

[Dat2U]

Oh and here's a good write up on Leonard by Woj. Remembering Draft Night 2011

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-kawhi- ... 09439.html

The shy, reticent California kid responsible for transforming the San Antonio Spurs, delivering a gassed dynasty its second wind, had come to the franchise with brazen strength, a stout spirit and a flawed shot. Hours after the NBA draft three years ago, the Spurs hurried Kawhi Leonard through his "Welcome to the NBA" news conference and out onto the practice court with shooting coach Chip Engelland.

As the clock lurched toward midnight on July 1, Engelland worked to change Leonard's release point, reshaping his shot and retraining his mind to trust what suddenly felt so awkward. Time was running out together, and soon the Spurs would leave a 20-year-old to administer his own reclamation. No coaches, no calls, no contact.

"He had come in, worked with Chip for three days and then – the lockout happened," Spurs general manager R.C. Buford told Yahoo Sports on Tuesday night. "There was intention in the [shooting] prescription given him. It was not just drill work."

Five months passed, the lockout ended and it didn't take long for the Spurs to realize Leonard had dutifully done the work asked of him and returned a different basketball player. In the Spurs' wildest dreams, they imagined Leonard as a relentless rebounder and a determined defender. Yet once Leonard developed a shot, he had a chance to be a star. Most of all, the Spurs had a chance to retool the Big Three, supplement the supporting cast and make a run again.


Leonard had 29 points, two steals and two blocked shots in a telltale 111-92 victory over the Miami Heat in Game 3 of the NBA Finals. Leonard did a magnificent job on LeBron James, holding him to 22 points and playing a part in disrupting him into seven turnovers. No one could see this Spurs resurgence coming on Tuesday night, the way no one could see Leonard becoming this kind of a star, this kind of a franchise-changer in the winter of Tim Duncan's and Manu Ginobili's careers.

Leonard is the reason the Spurs are chasing championships again. He changed everything for the Spurs. He gave them size and strength and athleticism to partner with his calculating, cunning basketball mind. Eventually, he gave them a startling offensive game to go with his stifling defense. Against Oklahoma City and Miami, he gave them a defender for Kevin Durant and LeBron James. Yes, Kawhi Leonard gave the Spurs a chance again.

"You could've never predicted this," Buford said.

No one ever saw him coming on draft night three years ago. Before that draft, Leonard had to slow down his workout schedule with an Achilles and ankle injury, forcing him to skip a late June session with the Milwaukee Bucks. Between the poor shooting and those injury doubts, there was an uneasiness of teams on draft night. This gave the Spurs a chance.

Around 3 o'clock on draft day in 2011, Buford called Leonard's agent, Brian Elfus, in his New York hotel room. San Antonio had done a thorough job of scouting and researching Leonard, but this was the first time Elfus had heard directly from Buford on him. He had been projected too high of a draft pick for the Spurs to be able to bring him into town for a workout.

"How's he feeling?" Buford asked Elfus. The agent informed Buford that he had taken Leonard to a specialist in the city that day, and his Achilles and ankle had fully checked out. Buford had history with Elfus, the Spurs had a solid doctor's physical on Leonard and soon Buford was back shopping guard George Hill for a lottery pick.

The Spurs had a small list of players in the 2011 draft that they were willing to trade Hill to obtain. As the top part of the lottery passed, the Spurs expected the Utah Jazz to select Leonard at No. 12, only the Jazz passed on him for Alec Burks. Leonard kept falling. They were sure he'd go 13 or 14, but the Morris twins were selected back-to-back. Somehow, Leonard made it to the Pacers at No. 15. Somehow, they had him. The Pacers desperately needed a veteran guard, and had long valued Hill. The Spurs so adored Hill, had become so fond of him, and Buford and Gregg Popovich loved the idea – if they had to trade him – of sending Hill back to his hometown of Indianapolis.

"The next time I heard from the Spurs," Elfus said Tuesday night, "they called me as Kawhi was walking across the podium."

But Vesely could really really dunk! And plus he was a crowd favorite overseas.

Honestly, I totally missed on Kawhi... because of his jump shot and also because he was a weaker finisher than expected in college. I was wrong, but I found it interesting how well San Antonio game planned that draft & the impending lockout, making sure they got Kawhi and got him some valuable shooting lessons/plans prior to the lockout.

[Ruzious]

Reading how SA almost immediately from day 1 stuck Leonard with a top shooting coach for 3 full days, it makes you wonder - how would Leonard and Danny Green have developed with the Wizards?

[dobrojim]

not sure we should dump Green and KL together. Green was cut by > 1 team incl SAS.

shooting is what cooled my jets as far as KL went at the time of the draft. I would say
that was the overriding question about him.

[queridiculo]

Who knows how they would have developed.

What I do know is that Vesely was absolutely the worst possible choice to make at that spot.

[Ruzious]

not sure we should dump Green and KL together. Green was cut by > 1 team incl SAS.

shooting is what cooled my jets as far as KL went at the time of the draft. I would say
that was the overriding question about him.

That's part of the point - considering how the Spurs almost immediately got Leonard to change the fundamentals of his shot.

Obviously Green isn't as good as Leonard, but he's developed into I think a top 5 perimeter defender in the game - he had the best defensive +/- on the Spurs -6.8 and seems to always come up with great defensive plays down the stretch of close games, and a very efficient role-playing offensive player. The Spurs did cut him at one point, but they did it because of roster numbers problem, and they picked him back up as soon as the opportunity arose. I was maybe his biggest fan coming out of UNC, but I'm still surprised he's become as good as he has.

[Dat2U]

Reading how SA almost immediately from day 1 stuck Leonard with a top shooting coach for 3 full days, it makes you wonder - how would Leonard and Danny Green have developed with the Wizards?

Leonard probably would have been decent, but certainly wouldn't have the standing he has now around the league. My guess is he'd be a nice role player (not a future face of a franchise) and we'd be openly questioning whether or not to give him a big pay day in free agency.

Danny Green probably would have been cut before he could develop.

[TGW]

Let's not compare the Spurs and Wizards...it's like comparing a perfectly aged filet mignon to Arby's.

[Ruzious]

Let's not compare the Spurs and Wizards...it's like comparing a perfectly aged filet mignon to Arby's.

As Ken Beatrice and his good friend, Bernie Streeter, used to say about Arby's ""It's not fast food! It's fresh food, served fast!".

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Just loving watching the Spurs beat down the Heat. Great to watch how they play on both ends of the court and how their focus never wanes.

Tears on my pillow over Kahwi. Dude is so good... But I agree he wouldn't have developed as much here.

We are so going to regret another few years of EG and Half Witt.

[Illuminaire]

I argued long and hard for Kawhi back during that draft, but even I didn't think he'd become this much of an impact player. My projection for him was a super-roleplayer... which is what he is, except I never expected him to develop an off the dribble game.

I didn't have the reservations about his shooting that some did, because his numbers on set shots (and free throws) were encouraging in college. I thought he had the ability to improve there and become the ultra deluxe version of the 3&D wing, complete with PF-quality rebounding and at-the-rim finishing ability.

I have to agree with everyone here who thinks he wouldn't be quite this good on the Wizards. I can't see their management being so proactive with this shot, or so steady with his development. But he would still have had his drive to improve, he would still have worked on things... and he would still have been a glorious do-it-all defensive roleplayer that great teams love to have.

Excuse me. I just looked at his box score again... I need to go pour another shot. -.-

[tontoz]

The Heat got blown out twice in a row at home. Feels like an early Christmas present.

[gesa2]

I argued long and hard for Kawhi back during that draft, but even I didn't think he'd become this much of an impact player. My projection for him was a super-roleplayer... which is what he is, except I never expected him to develop an off the dribble game.

I didn't have the reservations about his shooting that some did, because his numbers on set shots (and free throws) were encouraging in college. I thought he had the ability to improve there and become the ultra deluxe version of the 3&D wing, complete with PF-quality rebounding and at-the-rim finishing ability.

I have to agree with everyone here who thinks he wouldn't be quite this good on the Wizards. I can't see their management being so proactive with this shot, or so steady with his development. But he would still have had his drive to improve, he would still have worked on things... and he would still have been a glorious do-it-all defensive roleplayer that great teams love to have.

Excuse me. I just looked at his box score again... I need to go pour another shot. -.-

I think about how hard you pushed for him every time I see Leonard play Illuminaire. You get big props for this call.

[FAH1223]

If Spurs win on Sunday, who's Finals MVP?

[pancakes3]

If Spurs win on Sunday, who's Finals MVP?

Honestly? Diaw.

[fishercob]

The Heat got blown out twice in a row at home. Feels like an early Christmas present.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYGlEIywBCE[/youtube]