Official Trade Thread - Part XXX

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Brad Beal question:

Would you guys consider a Clarkson/Randle for Beal type of S&T in the off-season? How do you guys feel about Beal?

Deal!

[TylersLakers]

I would NOT make that Beal for Clarkson/Randle trade. I'd like Clarkson as a 3rd guard; not as a starter. And Randle's an offensive-minded player who's very inefficient on offense and very limited on defense - though he is a good rebounder. I'd rather try to work a trade with Boston involving Avery Bradley and either Olynyk or one of their picks.

Actually, the trade is impossible in any case, as Clarkson is a UFA at the end of the season. Randle is, in effect, a rookie; I haven't watched the Lakers much, but you are certainly right that he's inefficient.

I think I responded as I did, because I'm worried that the two options are to max him or let him walk. Neither is terribly attractive....

Clarkson is an RFA. Didn't look into trade rules about sign and trading RFA's. If I was the Lakers, I'd even be willing to take on Morris' contract.

If the Lakers get the #1 pick and get Simmons, Randle is a tough guy to fit alongside him.

[payitforward]

I would NOT make that Beal for Clarkson/Randle trade. I'd like Clarkson as a 3rd guard; not as a starter. And Randle's an offensive-minded player who's very inefficient on offense and very limited on defense - though he is a good rebounder. I'd rather try to work a trade with Boston involving Avery Bradley and either Olynyk or one of their picks.

Actually, the trade is impossible in any case, as Clarkson is a UFA at the end of the season. Randle is, in effect, a rookie; I haven't watched the Lakers much, but you are certainly right that he's inefficient.

I think I responded as I did, because I'm worried that the two options are to max him or let him walk. Neither is terribly attractive....

Clarkson is an RFA. Didn't look into trade rules about sign and trading RFA's. If I was the Lakers, I'd even be willing to take on Morris' contract.

If the Lakers get the #1 pick and get Simmons, Randle is a tough guy to fit alongside him.

Ooops, my mistake. But, are you saying that now you'd want Beal *and* Morris for Clarkson and Randle? Or...?

[queridiculo]

Willing to take on Morris contract as if it's such an incredible burden? It's less than $8 million a year, which once all the calculations are done with the new cap figures may end up being right around MLE level money.

I certainly wouldn't give any team wanting to trade for Beal a discount for taking Morris, especially not when you consider that the Wizards will likely end up surrendering a lottery pick this year when it's all said and done.

Beyond their lottery pick, the Lakers have absolutely nothing I'd consider in a sign and trade.

[Ruzious]

LOL to the Lakers fan, the Wiz likely gave up a lottery pick to get Morris. I didn't like the trade, but it's kinda an indication that they want to keep him.

[TylersLakers]

LOL to the Lakers fan, the Wiz likely gave up a lottery pick to get Morris. I didn't like the trade, but it's kinda an indication that they want to keep him.

I figured the Lakers taking on Morris' contract would just give you guys more cap space to work with. With that said, I'd do that trade with or without Morris included.

[deneem4]

I wouldn't do it...honestly I like randle and clarkson but we could've had clarkson and randle wont be above average (considering wizards development team) until maybe 2 years from now

[deneem4]

It's a good deal though and I think randle will be a monster

[Sluggerface]

Brad Beal question:

Would you guys consider a Clarkson/Randle for Beal type of S&T in the off-season? How do you guys feel about Beal?

Deal!

Both players are going to get overpaid in the offseason. Might as well go with the better of the two (Brad).

[pcbothwel]

Exactly,
Unless he suffers a catastrophic injury, I think we've seen what Beal's floor is. And that player is not an asset if we match at his max (4/96M), but he can be dumped on another team after a year. OTOH, If Beal takes the leap to the next level, then we would have no issue.

I'd also question the thought of him getting the max. Its not so much production, because there are many teams willing to take the gamble on a player that simply turns out average (Harrison Barnes will get the max). But his injury history could cripple a team if he turns into Derrick Rose.
I'd love to sign him to a Wes Mathews type contract (4/70M) if thats all someone offers him, but I doubt it.

[Ruzious]

Beal's stats stayed relatively flat from year 1 through year 3. But year 4 - despite having 4 - count em 4 - different injuries, he's showed significant improvement and reason to believe there's more to come. His eFG went from 3 straight years at 48 to 52 this season, TS% from 52 to 55, PER from 14.6 to 16.1, and points per 40 minutes from 18.8 to 22.5. His other stats have stayed fairly similar, and maybe they continue to, but he's become a quality scorer with the potential to be one of the top 2's in the game. The idea of giving him a max contract this offseason isn't as difficult to take as it used to be. But given his injuries, I don't think anyone else is going to offer him the max, and the Wiz might not have to - to keep him.

[Sluggerface]

Beal's stats stayed relatively flat from year 1 through year 3. But year 4 - despite having 4 - count em 4 - different injuries, he's showed significant improvement and reason to believe there's more to come. His eFG went from 3 straight years at 48 to 52 this season, TS% from 52 to 55, PER from 14.6 to 16.1, and points per 40 minutes from 18.8 to 22.5. His other stats have stayed fairly similar, and maybe they continue to, but he's become a quality scorer with the potential to be one of the top 2's in the game. The idea of giving him a max contract this offseason isn't as difficult to take as it used to be. But given his injuries, I don't think anyone else is going to offer him the max, and the Wiz might not have to - to keep him.

538 had his jump coming next season, and I could see that. I just question how valuable Brad at his peak will be. For all the improvements he's made as an isolation scorer, he's still far behind the curve in what it takes to be a primary option.

[Ruzious]

Beal's stats stayed relatively flat from year 1 through year 3. But year 4 - despite having 4 - count em 4 - different injuries, he's showed significant improvement and reason to believe there's more to come. His eFG went from 3 straight years at 48 to 52 this season, TS% from 52 to 55, PER from 14.6 to 16.1, and points per 40 minutes from 18.8 to 22.5. His other stats have stayed fairly similar, and maybe they continue to, but he's become a quality scorer with the potential to be one of the top 2's in the game. The idea of giving him a max contract this offseason isn't as difficult to take as it used to be. But given his injuries, I don't think anyone else is going to offer him the max, and the Wiz might not have to - to keep him.

538 had his jump coming next season, and I could see that. I just question how valuable Brad at his peak will be. For all the improvements he's made as an isolation scorer, he's still far behind the curve in what it takes to be a primary option.

Well, Wiggins is the only non-big younger than Beal who's scoring more per 40 minutes (23.6 vs 22.5), and Beal has a higher eFG and TS% than Wiggins, so Beal is looking better as a scorer than his contemporaries. If he can get to the line more, he can become an elite scorer.

Btw, Zach Lavine is next at 20.7. It'll be fun to watch Beal vs Lavine on Friday. I'd like to see Beal take advantage of his physical strength against Lavine.

[LyricalRico]

I would NOT make that Beal for Clarkson/Randle trade. I'd like Clarkson as a 3rd guard; not as a starter. And Randle's an offensive-minded player who's very inefficient on offense and very limited on defense - though he is a good rebounder.

I tend to agree with this, although Clarkson as a third guard would be interesting. I think I'd be more interested in Lou+Nance+pick than Randle+Clarkson.

I still think letting Beal walk might be the best option. But I fear EG will either overpay to resign him or make a bad trade just to say he got something in return.

Man, it would be tough to let Beal walk for nothing. At a minimum, I'd wait it out until he signed the QO to get one more year out of him at what would still be a bargain given the new cap.

And speaking of the new cap, with most teams having some level of room, a Beal S&T wouldn't necessarily have to include a bunch of bad contracts to make the numbers work. We could take back players that make less than a maxed out Beal but are still good value for us (like Ruz's Bradley+Olynyk idea).

You're right that letting Bradley Beal go w/ nothing coming back would be awful. And, he keeps giving hints of a very high upside, doesn't he?

I'd hate to max him, though. Do you have any sense of prediction about this? Do you think it's likely we'll max him?

I actually would say that Beal's money might be tied to KD2DC. If Durant comes here and takes up all the cap space, we HAVE to keep Beal to have another piece to a contender. We can't let him walk in this scenario because we won't get a comparable combination of players with his cap hold at next year's prices, so he can just sit back and say "max me".

No Durant probably means we follow nate's idea (I think it was nate's): Go with the idea that nobody is likely to offer Beal the full max in dollars+years on the open market. So wait for Beal to sign a sub-max 4 year deal, or a 2+1 max offer sheet with another team and then match.

[payitforward]

I tend to agree with this, although Clarkson as a third guard would be interesting. I think I'd be more interested in Lou+Nance+pick than Randle+Clarkson.



Man, it would be tough to let Beal walk for nothing. At a minimum, I'd wait it out until he signed the QO to get one more year out of him at what would still be a bargain given the new cap.

And speaking of the new cap, with most teams having some level of room, a Beal S&T wouldn't necessarily have to include a bunch of bad contracts to make the numbers work. We could take back players that make less than a maxed out Beal but are still good value for us (like Ruz's Bradley+Olynyk idea).

You're right that letting Bradley Beal go w/ nothing coming back would be awful. And, he keeps giving hints of a very high upside, doesn't he?

I'd hate to max him, though. Do you have any sense of prediction about this? Do you think it's likely we'll max him?

I actually would say that Beal's money might be tied to KD2DC. If Durant comes here and takes up all the cap space, we HAVE to keep Beal to have another piece to a contender. We can't let him walk in this scenario because we won't get a comparable combination of players with his cap hold at next year's prices, so he can just sit back and say "max me".

No Durant probably means we follow nate's idea (I think it was nate's): Go with the idea that nobody is likely to offer Beal the full max in dollars+years on the open market. So wait for Beal to sign a sub-max 4 year deal, or a 2+1 max offer sheet with another team and then match.

Well, I don't see how Durant is coming here, do you? So your take is we'll wait and match -- probably match whatever he signs, since no matter how you look at it simply casting Beal away as a failed pick will be hard to swallow.

It's a gamble, however we do it. But, at least there's some chance it could pay off.

[TGW]

The term "KD2DC" should be banned from the Wizards forum. Not even worth discussing.

[nate33]

Beal's stats stayed relatively flat from year 1 through year 3. But year 4 - despite having 4 - count em 4 - different injuries, he's showed significant improvement and reason to believe there's more to come. His eFG went from 3 straight years at 48 to 52 this season, TS% from 52 to 55, PER from 14.6 to 16.1, and points per 40 minutes from 18.8 to 22.5. His other stats have stayed fairly similar, and maybe they continue to, but he's become a quality scorer with the potential to be one of the top 2's in the game. The idea of giving him a max contract this offseason isn't as difficult to take as it used to be. But given his injuries, I don't think anyone else is going to offer him the max, and the Wiz might not have to - to keep him.

I'm not quite so impressed. I guess you got these stats a day ago after his terrific night in the first Atlanta game. After the dud last night, his numbers dropped a bit. His ORtg is back down to 103 and his PER is down to 15.8. I wouldn't characterize his improvement over last year as "significant". I'd use the term "incremental". He has made a nice improvement in his 2P%. Unfortunately, his defense has regressed and he's had a slight dip in rebounds, assists, steals and blocks.

I will say that he seems like he is poised to make a significant leap at some point in the future. We are seeing glimpses of a very well rounded game now that he's gotten so much better at going to the basket and hitting those 12-foot floaters. He's doing everything at a just below-average efficiency right now on high volume, which doesn't really help a team that much (and it can actually hurt). But if he just gets a little better, he'll be a high volume scorer at a slightly above-average efficiency, and that's a really good thing.

[Ruzious]

Beal's stats stayed relatively flat from year 1 through year 3. But year 4 - despite having 4 - count em 4 - different injuries, he's showed significant improvement and reason to believe there's more to come. His eFG went from 3 straight years at 48 to 52 this season, TS% from 52 to 55, PER from 14.6 to 16.1, and points per 40 minutes from 18.8 to 22.5. His other stats have stayed fairly similar, and maybe they continue to, but he's become a quality scorer with the potential to be one of the top 2's in the game. The idea of giving him a max contract this offseason isn't as difficult to take as it used to be. But given his injuries, I don't think anyone else is going to offer him the max, and the Wiz might not have to - to keep him.

I'm not quite so impressed. I guess you got these stats a day ago after his terrific night in the first Atlanta game. After the dud last night, his numbers dropped a bit. His ORtg is back down to 103 and his PER is down to 15.8. I wouldn't characterize his improvement over last year as "significant". I'd use the term "incremental". He has made a nice improvement in his 2P%. Unfortunately, his defense has regressed and he's had a slight dip in rebounds, assists, steals and blocks.

I will say that he seems like he is poised to make a significant leap at some point in the future. We are seeing glimpses of a very well rounded game now that he's gotten so much better at going to the basket and hitting those 12-foot floaters. He's doing everything at a just below-average efficiency right now on high volume, which doesn't really help a team that much (and it can actually hurt). But if he just gets a little better, he'll be a high volume scorer at a slightly above-average efficiency, and that's a really good thing.

Well yeah, I didn't expect his stats to improve coming off a god-awful game.

[payitforward]

Beal's numbers haven't improved this year overall. His fouls are a little up, his turnovers are up, his assists are slightly down, his steals are slightly down, and his rebounding is down.

As to scoring, his 3pt. % is down, his FT% is down, and his 2 pt. % is up. That last jump has pushed his TS% up to .55 -- that's in the top 20% of SGs, which is good.

Overall, however, he has performed at an average or below level. And, again overall, I don't see any meaningful improvement in his game. Add to that the fact that he's only been able to play 46 of 71 games so far, and I'm not seeing a lot to get excited about -- much though I wish I did!

OTOH, he is only 22. At the age Bradley is today, Dwyane Wade had not yet started his 2d season in the NBA. His rookie numbers were about the same as Beal's.

[Dark Faze]

He's definitely improved. It's not even debatable lol. Raising your TS by nearly 3 percentage points is significant. Turnovers are up a bit as to be expected with a rise in free throw attempts. Simply put, he's averaging the least amount of minutes he ever has while significantly improving his PER 36 scoring.

His handle has improved, 2point percentage up nearly 5 percentage points.

He's an awful player if you're expecting him to be a first or even second option for your offense, and that's the only lens we've ever looked at him through and continue to judge him by. And that's a failure of our GM that we continue to rely on two players who aren't anywhere close to first options and putting them in that role (John, Brad).

We've got to find a way to get a first option scorer on the team so John and Brad can do what they do best.