Political Roundtable Part XXI

[dckingsfan]

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Good.

Not a fan of hers.

And I'll admit its primarily due to my dislike of Bernie.

And the dislike of Bernie (from my side) is about not coming up with real solutions vs. the "populist" surface level proposals.

[Wizardspride]

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Good.

Not a fan of hers.

And I'll admit its primarily due to my dislike of Bernie.

And the dislike of Bernie (from my side) is about not coming up with real solutions vs. the "populist" surface level proposals.

I consider myself a populist and even I think some of Bernie's solutions are unrealistic.


As you say many of his proposals are "surface level".

That's one thing I'll give HRC: I'm far from her biggest fan but she's a policy wonk. Can't say the same for Bernie.....

[Zonkerbl]

My problem with this graph is it doesn't show how much larger the readership on the lower right side is than on the lower left side. It makes it look like there's an equal amount of kookiness on both sides and it's just not true. Fox News and Breitbart have a HUGE number of viewers/subscribers relative to their nutcase brethren on the other side.

[Zonkerbl]

I don't agree with all of Bernie's policies but they are all achievable. They have all been implemented in numerous countries in Europe. The $15/hour minimum wage is on the high side of what is provided in the EU but not unheard of.

[gtn130]

My problem with this graph is it doesn't show how much larger the readership on the lower right side is than on the lower left side. It makes it look like there's an equal amount of kookiness on both sides and it's just not true. Fox News and Breitbart have a HUGE number of viewers/subscribers relative to their nutcase brethren on the other side.

Yeah this is a great point. I'm pretty far to the left and haven't even heard of half the stuff in the bottom left quadrant. Patribotics? Real Farmacy? Nope, never heard of those. Have heard of the others and have never read them.

Meanwhile Fox News and Breitbart are squarely in that same quadrant on the right. Both sides are exactly the same! I am very smart!

[dckingsfan]

I don't agree with all of Bernie's policies but they are all achievable. They have all been implemented in numerous countries in Europe. The $15/hour minimum wage is on the high side of what is provided in the EU but not unheard of.

Not as he has outlined them (IMO) not withstanding the minimum wage.

[Wizardspride]

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[Pointgod]

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Good.


Not a fan of hers.


And I'll admit its primarily due to my dislike of Bernie.

While the whole shtick of let's hate on more centrist Democrats and do the republicans work for them is tiring she has her finger on the pulse of the issues that Democrats can win on going forward. These are issues that both Democrats and Republicans will support. While I understand why her primary win was pretty epic I don't see it as a blueprint for all Democratic candidates nationwide.

[zero2hero]

Lol. The Hill doesn't skew conservative at all.

[bsilver]

My problem with this graph is it doesn't show how much larger the readership on the lower right side is than on the lower left side. It makes it look like there's an equal amount of kookiness on both sides and it's just not true. Fox News and Breitbart have a HUGE number of viewers/subscribers relative to their nutcase brethren on the other side.

Americans on the right are much more likely to want to listen to one-sided biased reporting. Look at talk radio. At any hour you can find at least one program, and sometime multiple right-wing programs. OTOH left-wing talk radio was a total failure.

There's a lot of people on the right willing to believe anything. Somewhere between 43 (CNN 2015) and 54% (Public Policy Polling 2015) of Republicans think Obama is a Muslim.

I'm sure there's gullible people on the left, but they don't seem to want to get their information from the media.

[dckingsfan]

OTOH left-wing talk radio was a total failure.

This is pretty interesting in and of itself. Have you stumbled across any of the articles on the "why?" of this? Not having done any research, I would guess that it is a demographic issue - young people don't listen to the radio?

[gtn130]

OTOH left-wing talk radio was a total failure.

This is pretty interesting in and of itself. Have you stumbled across any of the articles on the "why?" of this? Not having done any research, I would guess that it is a demographic issue - young people don't listen to the radio?

If 'radio' doesn't include podcasts then it's not really even a worthwhile comparison. Podcasts are huge among liberals.

[I_Like_Dirt]

If 'radio' doesn't include podcasts then it's not really even a worthwhile comparison. Podcasts are huge among liberals.

This touches on the bigger issue dc is asking about. The real key here is that the medium, in its own way, is still the message. You see a divide that often falls on urban/young and rural/old lines and... let's just say it's not surprising where radio falls. I feel it goes quite a bit deeper than that and takes off in several different directions from the starting point, but assuming the medium is the message actually makes for a rather interesting and logical set of conclusions overall.

[bsilver]

OTOH left-wing talk radio was a total failure.

This is pretty interesting in and of itself. Have you stumbled across any of the articles on the "why?" of this? Not having done any research, I would guess that it is a demographic issue - young people don't listen to the radio?

If 'radio' doesn't include podcasts then it's not really even a worthwhile comparison. Podcasts are huge among liberals.

I wasn't including podcasts. You really think podcasts are huge with all liberals or just the younger ones? Most of the liberals I know do most of their listening to NPR. There's definitely an age divide.

[gtn130]

If 'radio' doesn't include podcasts then it's not really even a worthwhile comparison. Podcasts are huge among liberals.

This touches on the bigger issue dc is asking about. The real key here is that the medium, in its own way, is still the message. You see a divide that often falls on urban/young and rural/old lines and... let's just say it's not surprising where radio falls. I feel it goes quite a bit deeper than that and takes off in several different directions from the starting point, but assuming the medium is the message actually makes for a rather interesting and logical set of conclusions overall.

It really depends what is actually meant by 'left-wing talk radio' - there is no analog to Rush Limbaugh on the left in terms of a massively popular left-wing grifting fear-mongering conspiracy theorist. Those people exist on Twitter in the form of Louise Mensche, Eric Garland et al - Russiagate grifter hacks who are spinning up a bunch of garbage about Trump-Russia to make money. The difference is their audiences are far smaller compared to Limbaugh.

If we're talking about the medium, then I think it really just comes down to technology and how people consume media - young people want content on-demand on their devices. The next generation of right-wingers is already consuming more bullsh*t Gamergate Alt-Right content than they could ever dream of on YouTube.

[gtn130]

This is pretty interesting in and of itself. Have you stumbled across any of the articles on the "why?" of this? Not having done any research, I would guess that it is a demographic issue - young people don't listen to the radio?

If 'radio' doesn't include podcasts then it's not really even a worthwhile comparison. Podcasts are huge among liberals.

I wasn't including podcasts. You really think podcasts are huge with all liberals or just the younger ones? Most of the liberals I know do most of their listening to NPR. There's definitely an age divide.

The podcast industry is absolutely booming. Pod Save America (Crooked Media), the multitudinous Vox podcasts, Chapo Trap House - there's an infinite number of liberal and left-wing podcasts with huge audiences raking in huge amounts of ad $$

[I_Like_Dirt]

It really depends what is actually meant by 'left-wing talk radio' - there is no analog to Rush Limbaugh on the left in terms of a massively popular left-wing grifting fear-mongering conspiracy theorist. Those people exist on Twitter in the form of Louise Mensche, Eric Garland et al - Russiagate grifter hacks who are spinning up a bunch of garbage about Trump-Russia to make money. The difference is their audiences are far smaller compared to Limbaugh.

If we're talking about the medium, then I think it really just comes down to technology and how people consume media - young people want content on-demand on their devices. The next generation of right-wingers is already consuming more bullsh*t Gamergate Alt-Right content than they could ever dream of on YouTube.

It's true about what you mean about left wing talk radio, but again, even there, I'd suggest that people looking for an overarching leader to follow tends to lean right, on average. Yes, the left will look for dreamers to follow as well, which sometimes lends itself to abuse in its own way, but it isn't the same kind of messaging there overall. The opposing sides of the spectrum are looking for different kinds of power dynamics, therefore the media are different to account for the different messages. What's more interesting is how certain types of messaging - think twitter and reddit, as examples - can actually capture both target audiences fairly easily, while the two populations largely manage to keep themselves entirely separate but for a few trolls and such. I'm still trying to figure out what I think about that.

[stilldropin20]

I know SD20 is a fan but...

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candace owens is the greatest african american alive right now. Right now...and over the last 6 months no one is doing more. She HAS the ear of the president of the united States right now. He needs her and she is speaking truths on many levels. When this is all said and done over the next 2-3 years She is going to end up getting more done for african americans than anyone else alive. I would bet every penny I have on that. She loves herself. She loves people. She sees the truth. She knows the answers and she is extremely powerful. She is just now beginning to understand the power she yields. Once her following gets exponential...she will have even more power. Unlike Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton...she is going to be able to move things and initiate changes in ways those guys could only dream about. Because She refuses to accept victimhood, reparations, and entitlements as an ideology because she knows that is not the true road to true equality. Its a false road that may help mend fences but the real road to real equality is through equality of wages and job opportunities and self sustainability. Thats what she preaches. That's what she fights for. And she has a US sitting president dying to prove he is not a racists. Dying to prove it. Its the perfect storm. Democratic mayors in major cities need either help or get out of the way and let the feds in to clean up the streets once and for all and stop calling police racists for doing their jobs AND THEN let trump make deals to bring economic prosperity back to the cities. <--a campaign promise from Trump (WHO IS DYING TO MAKE GOOD ON HIS CAMPAIGN PROMISES).

Black people have the perfect storm right now and the 3 perfect weapons right now...Candace Owens, Kanye West, and President Donald trump. The 3 of them can get this done. All trump wants in return is your vote in 2020. Thats it. He is already going to win in 2020. he just wants record voting from our inner cities. And he is willing to fix the cities first to earn your vote. He's got 2 years to get it done....and this is a guy who can get it done and quick. he aint afraid of bad press while making tough decisions along the way. this is a man that can deliver. Philly, Chicago, Detroit. DC/Baltimore. I am talking to you. He knows he can never win in LA with too many latinos who wont favor his immigration stance...but their is NO REASONable reason for black people to not align themselves with trump.<--other than democratic leaders telling them not to. And I'm part latino!!! But i see myself as american first!! My allegiance is to all, first and foremost, is to all of my fellow americans. I am a hard core nationalist. I believe in our constitution. I believe in our country. I believe it is the best governing constitution in the world and capitalism is the best basis of monetary distribution system.(though it certainly needs to be tweaked in terms of the elite being able to hoard wealth).

Right now, there is a tremendous opportunity....right now...for blacks in those cities. I'd take it if I were you. Imagine for a second, our troubled inner urban cities where jobs are abundant, wages are good, everyone is working, families stay together, hard core criminals that instill fear on our streets and shooting each other are all in jail and people feel safe again. Donald trump is dying to say he "cleaned it up!! and Obama couldn't/didn't." He is literally foaming at the mouth to get that done. Even if just to pat himself on the back. Why would you not let him??? makes no sense to fight him. because all you will get is nothing and more of the same from the democrats who killed the spirit and soul of our inner cities with racists victimhood policies that disenfranchised our black neighborhoods and made them feel like they had to fight for scraps instead of their own fair piece of the pie. Donald trump is dying to cut off that slice of pie. Dying to do it. Let him do it. I would. It will take more and more local black leaders like Candace and Kanye than the bull crap lebron and Don lemmon are pulling. Change the narrative!!! Only the black people can make this happen. You do this by following the true prophets, not the false prophets.

[dckingsfan]

Interesting article by Terri Sewell and Jim Kessler in the WSJ about why the minimum wage is stuck. They argue that it is not in the best interests of many states to pass a higher minimum wage (and certainly not to the level that is being proposed).

They argue that there should be a variable minimum wage (kind of like M&IE) in different states and regions.

[Zonkerbl]

OTOH left-wing talk radio was a total failure.

This is pretty interesting in and of itself. Have you stumbled across any of the articles on the "why?" of this? Not having done any research, I would guess that it is a demographic issue - young people don't listen to the radio?

If 'radio' doesn't include podcasts then it's not really even a worthwhile comparison. Podcasts are huge among liberals.

Liberals aren't as angry as Conservatives are. Liberals are sci-fi fans, conservatives are reality tv watchers.