Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

...why Deni is doing what he's doing...he's a damn good player.

Yup!
& improving.
& his new level of play has had a huge positive impact on the Blazers' record.
& if he was still a Wizard he'd be having the same kind of effect on our record.
& you could forget about any real shot at a top pick in the '25 draft.
& you could forget about keeping our 2026 R1 pick.

So, when you think about what we got for Deni, here's your list:

1. a solid chance at a top 3 pick in 2025.
2. we get to keep our 2026 R1 pick.
3. a chance at turning that 2026 pick into a top 3 prospect in the 2026 draft.
4. possibly a meaningfully higher R1 pick in the 2027 draft than if we hadn't made the trade.
5. Bub Carrington.
6. a R1 pick in 2029.
7. a R2 pick in 2028.
8. a R2 pick in 2030.
9. Malcolm Brogdon.

The difference with POR and WAS though is they have a coach trying to win. Everyone is trying to say that POR is tanking, but I don't think that was their plan, at the very least everyone is not on board. Hell if they hadn't got off to such a bad start, Avdija included, they would likely be at least a play in team. Now that fan base may want them to tank, that's what I've read on their forums, but I'm not sure coaching and management is aligned with that. Is that a bad strategy? Probably, but it's not an apples to apples situation. Which is a long way of saying that yes if you are trying to win Deni is a difference maker, but that's not to say you can't strategize to diminish his impact thus still being able to pull a tank. Utah is doing just that with Markkanen. I've already said it would likely take some ingenuity to do the tank right with Deni, but they could of come up with a strategy, they're paid handsomely to do so.

As for what we got, I'll reply:

1. See strategy above.
2. See strategy above.
3. Double dipping off of point 2, common PIF...
4. Well I guess we can try to stretch the impact into oblivion if you'd like.
5. A 14th pick in a bad draft, who has played up to that bad draft moniker. Not worth giving up a really good bird in hand.
6. Second best POR pick that year, likely high teens, lows 20s. Not worth giving up a really good bird in hand.
7. Margins.
8. Margins.
9. Will walk for nothing.

[payitforward]

You're leaving out the single most important benefit of the Deni trade. After all, who is playing half or more of the minutes Deni would have played?

Spoiler:

Justin Champagnie!

Not only that but...

Spoiler:

overall he's playing as well as Deni! Maybe better!

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

You're leaving out the single most important benefit of the Deni trade. After all, who is playing half or more of the minutes Deni would have played?

Spoiler:

Justin Champagnie!

Not only that but...

Spoiler:

overall he's playing as well as Deni! Maybe better!

Triggered Millennial.

[AFM]

You're leaving out the single most important benefit of the Deni trade. After all, who is playing half or more of the minutes Deni would have played?

Spoiler:

Justin Champagnie!

Not only that but...

Spoiler:

overall he's playing as well as Deni! Maybe better!

Triggered Millennial.

Millennial does not mean you're a millennium years old.

[smoothSeph]

Lol denis rookie season was a disaster and bub lookts 1000x better rofl

He was like 6ppg averaging 32mpg

Well, it was more like 23 mpg, but don't let things like facts get in the way of your stupidity.

And Deni's value was on the defensive end of the court. That's why he played that many minutes on a good team. I know you really want to believe that Carrington's 9 points a game in 29 minutes on poor shooting percentages on one of the worst teams in NBA history is "100000000X times better than Deni" but in reality Bub and Deni had similar statisitical rookie seasons. Deni was just a better defender and that's what he brought to the court, not scoring.

Deni also could barely play defense without fouling. I feel like you’re blending a couple years of Deni into his rookie year because 90% of this board wanted absolutely nothing to do with him. He did nothing well as a rookie, he showed occasional flashes sure but to have that take on Bub then glorify Deni’s rookie year is… interesting.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

You're leaving out the single most important benefit of the Deni trade. After all, who is playing half or more of the minutes Deni would have played?

Spoiler:

Justin Champagnie!

Not only that but...

Spoiler:

overall he's playing as well as Deni! Maybe better!

Triggered Millennial.

Millennial does not mean you're a millennium years old.

Don't joke tongue and cheek about PIF's age like that.

[Kanyewest]

Lol denis rookie season was a disaster and bub lookts 1000x better rofl

He was like 6ppg averaging 32mpg

Well, it was more like 23 mpg, but don't let things like facts get in the way of your stupidity.

And Deni's value was on the defensive end of the court. That's why he played that many minutes on a good team. I know you really want to believe that Carrington's 9 points a game in 29 minutes on poor shooting percentages on one of the worst teams in NBA history is "100000000X times better than Deni" but in reality Bub and Deni had similar statisitical rookie seasons. Deni was just a better defender and that's what he brought to the court, not scoring.

Deni also could barely play defense without fouling. I feel like you’re blending a couple years of Deni into his rookie year because 90% of this board wanted absolutely nothing to do with him. He did nothing well as a rookie, he showed occasional flashes sure but to have that take on Bub then glorify Deni’s rookie year is… interesting.

I don't even think that was Deni's fault to be honest. The refs rarely gave him the benefit of the doubt, maybe because he was a rookie. It seemed like Deni got more respect from the refs and the rule changes that have allowed for more physical play have made Deni more valuable.

[smoothSeph]

Well, it was more like 23 mpg, but don't let things like facts get in the way of your stupidity.

And Deni's value was on the defensive end of the court. That's why he played that many minutes on a good team. I know you really want to believe that Carrington's 9 points a game in 29 minutes on poor shooting percentages on one of the worst teams in NBA history is "100000000X times better than Deni" but in reality Bub and Deni had similar statisitical rookie seasons. Deni was just a better defender and that's what he brought to the court, not scoring.

Deni also could barely play defense without fouling. I feel like you’re blending a couple years of Deni into his rookie year because 90% of this board wanted absolutely nothing to do with him. He did nothing well as a rookie, he showed occasional flashes sure but to have that take on Bub then glorify Deni’s rookie year is… interesting.

I don't even think that was Deni's fault to be honest. The refs rarely gave him the benefit of the doubt, maybe because he was a rookie. It seemed like Deni got more respect from the refs and the rule changes that have allowed for more physical play have made Deni more valuable.

I don’t think it was really his fault either, it’s part of the growing process. Kyshawn had the same issue earlier in the season. I just want people to be honest.

[Endless Loop]

You're leaving out the single most important benefit of the Deni trade. After all, who is playing half or more of the minutes Deni would have played?

Spoiler:

Justin Champagnie!

Not only that but...

Spoiler:

overall he's playing as well as Deni! Maybe better!

Just so I can get this all straight, you're saying that Champagnie is playing as well as or better than Deni, AND that having Deni would have resulted in several more wins than the Wiz + Champagnie have, which would have hurt the tank.

Just making sure I understand the argument.

[TGW]

I just want people to be honest.

I've been consistent regarding Deni since before he was drafted. Don't confuse me with other posters.

I said this in 2020:

Dat--what's your scouting report on Deni Avidja?

I see all-star potential.

On his defense rookie year:

There was another play where he funneled Grant into Bryant, but at an angle where Bryant could put his body in between Grant and the basket and contest the shot (it was a miss). It was textbook.

He has good basketball IQ. Once his skills catch up to his instincts, he'll be a very good player.

Some more his rookie year:

I really enjoy when deni does well because he busts his butt every game and gets the shortest leash. Good for him.

[smoothSeph]

I just want people to be honest.

I've been consistent regarding Deni since before he was drafted. Don't confuse me with other posters.

I said this in 2020:

Dat--what's your scouting report on Deni Avidja?

I see all-star potential.

On his defense rookie year:

There was another play where he funneled Grant into Bryant, but at an angle where Bryant could put his body in between Grant and the basket and contest the shot (it was a miss). It was textbook.

He has good basketball IQ. Once his skills catch up to his instincts, he'll be a very good player.

Some more his rookie year:

I really enjoy when deni does well because he busts his butt every game and gets the shortest leash. Good for him.

That’s great, seems like you were spot on with his potential. Doesn’t change the fact his rookie year wasn’t good. You said it yourself, “busts his butt.” That term indicates trying, not success.

But I’m not really here to argue. Just want to make sure Bub is getting some attention that’s all.

[doclinkin]

You're leaving out the single most important benefit of the Deni trade. After all, who is playing half or more of the minutes Deni would have played?

Spoiler:

Justin Champagnie!

Not only that but...

Spoiler:

overall he's playing as well as Deni! Maybe better!

Triggered Millennial.

Millennial! PIF is about 5 years too old to even be a Boomer. He may act juvenile, but factually his grandparents were probably alive during the Civil war. Good old PIF. Grandad of the boards.

[doclinkin]

You’re absolutely right about Bub’s shortcomings. He needs to get much better at finishing at the basket and drawing contact. No argument there.

But he’s already an above average midrange shooter, an above average rebounder for a PG, a better defender than you give him credit for, and a poised oncourt leader with a very good assist/TO ratio, especially for a 19 yr old who’s being asked to play more minutes than any rookie in the NBA.

Think about it. Many rookies hit a wall about two-thirds of the way through the season. Bub in his 76th game of the season just played 41 mins against a team competing for the playoffs…and scored 19 pts, had 7 assists, and knocked down 5 threes.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Carrington is completely useless. He will stick in the NBA for awhile and has some NBA skills. My issue with Bub is mainly that I don't see much growth in his game. I think he's an average prospect with a low ceiling. I like guards that attack the paint and draw fouls, and are bulldogs defensively (think prime Kyle Lowry). Bub is a game manager that shoots the ball well off the dribble. His archtype is available in the 20's/second round every year IMO. Again, he'll stick because he has a useful nba skillset, but he's not a guy you build around.

We have zero players you would reliably build around. But you have no idea what Bub may become. Give him an offseason to add muscle and find out if he starts to finish inside. Because if you look at the shooting stats Bub has had more dunks (18) and finished at a higher percentage (.889) during his rookie year than Deni did (15 dunks. .733 finishing percentage). And Bub is 5 inches shorter, 6 months younger than Deni was, but still finished better with a dunk.

You've got amnesia over the fact that we all got frustrated at Deni for pulling up short and lofting an assortment of weak floaters in the 3-10 foot + 10-16 foot range instead of going strong to the rack. He was scared to go inside and had no finishing ability there. Yes Bub also doesn't hit lay-ups. But lets not make Deni out to be a god of the interior. He was timid, scared to attack inside, more willing to pass than attack when he had the ball from the midrange and in. It wasn't until Deni's 3rd year that he made as many dunks as efficiently as Bub has this year (16 of 18).

The key for any young player is how they adjust, especially between seasons. Bub knows that the knock on his game is that he doesn't finish on the inside. He's admitted as much. He's also right to say that for him a middy is the same as a lay-up given that he was hitting 60% on pull up jumpers inside the line for much of this year. But you think he won't work to get stronger? Let him grow into his body, he's at the tail end of a 7 inch growth spurt. Then find out what he can do. He's not scared to go on the inside, if he was he wouldn't be racking up so many rebounds from the guard position. He just needs strength to absorb contact and skills work on that inside play. But he's got a frame that will take muscle quickly as soon as his metabolism lets him. And given that he plays 30 mins a game without taking a break, its a good sign that he should have stamina and quick recovery for weight room workouts. He's operating with the equivalent of natural creatine in his system. Do you ever see him gassed and panting? I don't. Bodes well for his ability to add gains in the weight room. I think prime Lowry is a good comp, but I think Bub gets there quicker than Lowry did.

[nate33]

You've got amnesia over the fact that we all got frustrated at Deni for pulling up short and lofting an assortment of weak floaters in the 3-10 foot + 10-16 foot range instead of going strong to the rack. He was scared to go inside and had no finishing ability there. Yes Bub also doesn't hit lay-ups. But lets not make Deni out to be a god of the interior. He was timid, scared to attack inside, more willing to pass than attack when he had the ball from the midrange and in. It wasn't until Deni's 3rd year that he made as many dunks as efficiently as Bub has this year (16 of 18).

C'mon Doc. It's disingenuous to compare total numbers rather than per minute numbers. Bub was gifted 2200 minutes in a tanking season which had as much garbage time as meaningful minutes. He also played with Sarr and Vukcevic as stretch-5's to unclog the lane.

Deni only played 1257 minutes because he was on a playoff team in his rookie season. He also had Alex Len and Robin Lopez clogging the lane on offense, making driving to the rim that much more difficult, not to mention Westbrook who couldn't shoot outside of 15 feet either.

[Kanyewest]

32 points, 9 rebounds, 7 assists on 12 of 18 shooting for Bub.

[doclinkin]

You've got amnesia over the fact that we all got frustrated at Deni for pulling up short and lofting an assortment of weak floaters in the 3-10 foot + 10-16 foot range instead of going strong to the rack. He was scared to go inside and had no finishing ability there. Yes Bub also doesn't hit lay-ups. But lets not make Deni out to be a god of the interior. He was timid, scared to attack inside, more willing to pass than attack when he had the ball from the midrange and in. It wasn't until Deni's 3rd year that he made as many dunks as efficiently as Bub has this year (16 of 18).

C'mon Doc. It's disingenuous to compare total numbers rather than per minute numbers. Bub was gifted 2200 minutes in a tanking season which had as much garbage time as meaningful minutes. He also played with Sarr and Vukcevic as stretch-5's to unclog the lane.

Deni only played 1257 minutes because he was on a playoff team in his rookie season. He also had Alex Len and Robin Lopez clogging the lane on offense, making driving to the rim that much more difficult, not to mention Westbrook who couldn't shoot outside of 15 feet either.

Oh Deni didn't have all-star Beal and Davis Bertans' to open things up? Garrison Matthews and Raul Neto hitting nearly 40%.

And what rookie season. I cited Deni's 3rd year when he finally had enough dunks to match Bub's rookie year. A 3rd year when Deni's eFG% was .497 as compared to rookie Bub's .485. He played 2020 minutes that year. The bending over backwards that people do for Deni now is irksome considering how frustrating and inconsistent his development was over his early career. Yes we knew he was a good defender. He also faded out of the picture at times in puzzling ways. Got himself benched. Wiz fans were patient with him, though there was a cluster of folks who blamed everybody but Deni for anything that happened in his career. All I am advocating is that folks give Bub 25% of the grace that Deni got before they rush to judge him. People can't seem to judge him on his own merits so I will point out that even by comparison to the Sainted Deni, rookie Bub is doing damn good. And has the moxie to get out there and fight it out even in a losing season. He's hitting marks that the bigger faster more athletic Deni didn't hit until years later in his career, despite plenty of opportunities in those 3 years to seize a role for himself.

We were all happy Deni broke out. After Rui was traded. Many of us were relieved like 'its about time'. But lets not pretend that Deni was dominant early. If you don't think Bub has as high an upside as Deni, consider the possibility that your judgement is shaded by the fact that your feelins were hurt that we lost the kid. Because I'd bet a year long signature bet that Bub gets his first career triple double at a younger age/early point in his career than Deni did, who finally got one this year.

Hell Bub nearly had one tonight. I'm saying nobody has any idea how good this kid can be after 4 years. Early returns show serious promise.

[doclinkin]

32 points, 9 rebounds, 7 assists on 12 of 18 shooting for Bub.

Only one turnover. 7-10 from 3. But but but he doesn't make lay-ups. I dunno. I'll take it. I said in the game thread seems like he's playing his heart out for Big Bub. No quit in the kid. Attacking playoff bound teams and giving them notice that their time at the top may be limited.

[nate33]

We were all happy Deni broke out. After Rui was traded. Many of us were relieved like 'its about time'. But lets not pretend that Deni was dominant early. If you don't think Bub has as high an upside as Deni, consider the possibility that your judgement is shaded by the fact that your feelins were hurt that we lost the kid. Because I'd bet a year long signature bet that Bub gets his first career triple double at a younger age/early point in his career than Deni did, who finally got one this year.

Hell Bub nearly had one tonight. I'm saying nobody has any idea how good this kid can be after 4 years. Early returns show serious promise.

I do really like Bub. Though I still consider him a high-floor low-ceiling guy. We shall see.

[nate33]

Deni with 26 points, 15 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals and 2 blocks tonight. (7 turnovers though.)

[DCZards]

Deni with 26 points, 15 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals and 2 blocks tonight. (7 turnovers though.)

So it was a good night, right? Deni excelled…we still support/love him…and Bub excelled as well.