Bradley Beal - Part II

[DCZards]

The Wiz actually save money - significant money - in a Beal, Gortat, and Oubre (even more if you put Porter in and take Oubre out) trade for Cousins and McLemore. They can then afford to get front court depth and sign Sato next offseason. Maybe most importantly, it should make the team much more appealable to Durant.

I disagree with your assumption that KD would prefer Cousins and McLemore over Beal, Gortat and Porter/Oubre. I certainly am not sure I would.

I also think you're overlooking the reality that there are probably lot of NBA players who would prefer not to have Cousins as a teammate. KD might be one of them.

[stevemcqueen1]

But you're gutting the foundation of our build in that trade for Cousins Ruz. That's simply an unacceptable level of risk IMO. I've liked and followed Cousins since Kentucky, but he is not a reliable foundation player for a high quality franchise. He needs to be as far removed from any sort of load-bearing role or position of leadership as possible. He needs to be like the fourth or fifth most important player and personality on a winner. Trade Beal and Gortat for him and suddenly DeMarcus Cousins is the second most important voice in the locker room... by far. That's poison.

[nate33]

But you're gutting the foundation of our build in that trade for Cousins Ruz. That's simply an unacceptable level of risk IMO. I've liked and followed Cousins since Kentucky, but he is not a reliable foundation player for a high quality franchise. He needs to be as far removed from any sort of load-bearing role or position of leadership as possible. He needs to be like the fourth or fifth most important player and personality on a winner. Trade Beal and Gortat for him and suddenly DeMarcus Cousins is the second most important voice in the locker room... by far. That's poison.

C'mon now. How in the world is Cousins NOT going to be one of the more important voices in a locker room? He's a top 10-20 player in the NBA.

You gotta make this trade for cap reasons alone. Wall and Cousins would have a combined salary equal to just 32% of the cap in 2017. With that as the foundation, it would be very easy to add more talent. If we made that trade, my guess is that Kevin Durant would sign a 1+1 contract in OKC for another year and then come join us in 2017. (That way, he'd be eligible for a 35% max contract, and it also lines up for when Westbrook and Ibaka are also free agents.) Who wouldn't want to come join a team that has the best passer in the game and the most physical low post presence in the game?

[Induveca]

But you're gutting the foundation of our build in that trade for Cousins Ruz. That's simply an unacceptable level of risk IMO. I've liked and followed Cousins since Kentucky, but he is not a reliable foundation player for a high quality franchise. He needs to be as far removed from any sort of load-bearing role or position of leadership as possible. He needs to be like the fourth or fifth most important player and personality on a winner. Trade Beal and Gortat for him and suddenly DeMarcus Cousins is the second most important voice in the locker room... by far. That's poison.

Why would you would take a possible 25/15 guy away from any sort of "load-bearing" role or position? Is this where we hear the inherent evil of being an outspoken, emotional young man who has never once been in trouble outside of the NBA practice court? Yet we applaud Morey when he signs a two time DWI guy in Lawson?

It's laughable, people need to cut Cousins a break. He's a damn good player.

[DCZards]

C'mon now. How in the world is Cousins NOT going to be one of the more important voices in a locker room? He's a top 10-20 player in the NBA.

Being a great player doesn't necessarily make you a respected locker room leader or someone who teammates look up to or listen to off the court.

In fact, sometimes your team leader is an average player who might not even play a lot. I remember reading years ago that Corliss Williamson was widely considered the off-court/lockerroom leader of the Sac King--and he was barely getting 10-15 minutes a game at the time. I guess it's not surprising that Williamson is now an assistant coach with the Kings.

[nate33]

C'mon now. How in the world is Cousins NOT going to be one of the more important voices in a locker room? He's a top 10-20 player in the NBA.

Being a great player doesn't necessarily make you a respected locker room leader or someone who teammates look up to or listen to off the court.

In fact, sometimes your team leader is an average player who might not even play a lot. I remember reading years ago that Corliss Williamson was widely considered the off-court/lockerroom leader of the Sac King--and he was barely getting 10-15 minutes a game at the time. I guess it's not surprising that Williamson is now an assistant coach with the Kings.

Name me a team other than the Spurs where Cousins wouldn't be one of the 3 most important people in the locker room.

I'm not saying it's ideal. Obviously, one wants better personalities than Cousins leading a team. I'm just saying that McQueen's expectations are unrealistic. You are not going to put together a team where Cousins is "the fourth or fifth most important player and personality".

[No-Man]

I have Beal making the All Star and winning the MIP next season, I am hoping for a fully healthy year.

[DCZards]

C'mon now. How in the world is Cousins NOT going to be one of the more important voices in a locker room? He's a top 10-20 player in the NBA.

Being a great player doesn't necessarily make you a respected locker room leader or someone who teammates look up to or listen to off the court.

In fact, sometimes your team leader is an average player who might not even play a lot. I remember reading years ago that Corliss Williamson was widely considered the off-court/lockerroom leader of the Sac King--and he was barely getting 10-15 minutes a game at the time. I guess it's not surprising that Williamson is now an assistant coach with the Kings.

Name me a team other than the Spurs where Cousins wouldn't be one of the 3 most important people in the locker room.

I'm not saying it's ideal. Obviously, one wants better personalities than Cousins leading a team. I'm just saying that McQueen's expectations are unrealistic. You are not going to put together a team where Cousins is "the fourth or fifth most important player and personality".

There's a difference between being important and being a leader. As a basketball player, Cousins would be "important" in just about any looker room. But when it comes to leadership, having your teammates/co-workers respect in areas such as maturity and decisionmaking are often more important than being the best performer.

[DCZards]

Here's a clip of Cousins yelling at and cursing out his teammates during a game against the Wizards in 2014.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODbiPWIpUMk

[nate33]

There's a difference between being important and being a leader. As a basketball player, Cousins would be "important" in just about any looker room. But when it comes to leadership, having your teammates/co-workers respect in areas such as maturity and decisionmaking are often more important than being the best performer.

I don't know if you are arguing with me or agreeing with me.

If your point is that Cousins is a lousy teammate and team leader, then I agree with you. It's a real problem.

I'm just saying that it's a problem that you can't avoid simply by making him the "fifth most important player and personality" because that's impossible.

If you trade for Cousins, you need to accept that there could be some locker room issues. That's the only reason Cousins is potentially available in the first place. Hopefully, those locker room issues will be diminished as Cousins continues to mature, and one hopes that Wall would help to lead the locker room into a better direction.

[tontoz]

Please get rid of Wittman before trading Beal.
Beal under a decent coach will be an all star.

Beal struggles to make a routine pullup j, even if he is wide open. Doubt a coach will make a big difference there.

[stevemcqueen1]

But you're gutting the foundation of our build in that trade for Cousins Ruz. That's simply an unacceptable level of risk IMO. I've liked and followed Cousins since Kentucky, but he is not a reliable foundation player for a high quality franchise. He needs to be as far removed from any sort of load-bearing role or position of leadership as possible. He needs to be like the fourth or fifth most important player and personality on a winner. Trade Beal and Gortat for him and suddenly DeMarcus Cousins is the second most important voice in the locker room... by far. That's poison.

Why would you would take a possible 25/15 guy away from any sort of "load-bearing" role or position? Is this where we hear the inherent evil of being an outspoken, emotional young man who has never once been in trouble outside of the NBA practice court? Yet we applaud Morey when he signs a two time DWI guy in Lawson?

It's laughable, people need to cut Cousins a break. He's a damn good player.

Setting aside that he's not actually getting 15 RPG, I wouldn't trade 75% of my foundation for him because he's a malcontent and head case that feuds with teammates, coaches, broadcasters, officials, and executives, tanks performances out of spite, and hasn't led his team to 30 wins in five years despite being such a big talent.

Cousin has caught a break by virtue of the fact nobody really watched him mail in the remainder of last season after Malone got fired.

[stevemcqueen1]

C'mon now. How in the world is Cousins NOT going to be one of the more important voices in a locker room? He's a top 10-20 player in the NBA.

Being a great player doesn't necessarily make you a respected locker room leader or someone who teammates look up to or listen to off the court.

In fact, sometimes your team leader is an average player who might not even play a lot. I remember reading years ago that Corliss Williamson was widely considered the off-court/lockerroom leader of the Sac King--and he was barely getting 10-15 minutes a game at the time. I guess it's not surprising that Williamson is now an assistant coach with the Kings.

Name me a team other than the Spurs where Cousins wouldn't be one of the 3 most important people in the locker room.

I'm not saying it's ideal. Obviously, one wants better personalities than Cousins leading a team. I'm just saying that McQueen's expectations are unrealistic. You are not going to put together a team where Cousins is "the fourth or fifth most important player and personality".

You're right, it is unrealistic for us (and most teams), and that's exactly why I'd pass on him. He's still viewed as a foundation piece and an essential player when he shouldn't be. Kevin Love was a similar case before this past season. People thought Golden State was crazy for not wanting to deal Klay Thompson for him because Love was such a superior individual talent. But Thompson was an essential member of a title team that just put up one of the ten greatest seasons in NBA history.

And the team that did end up with Love? He's like the fourth most important player/voice in that locker room. And that's the only way to handle and be successful with the Talented Headcase. Never actually depend on him, never let him hold you hostage. Cleveland could have let Love walk for nothing this summer and still expected to win 55+ games and get back to the Finals and compete for a ring.

DeMarcus Cousins is an exponentially bigger head case than Love.

It's a desperate franchise that trades the majority of their core away for Cousins and gives him the reins to the team. We really do have a bright future and have no reason to be that desperate. If Cousins were to come here as a free agent hired gun type somewhere down the line in his career, then I'd be fine with that. Until then I'm also fine letting him play out his career as The Guy for some other team that loses 50 games a season.

[nate33]

I wouldn't trade 75% of my foundation for him.

Just for the record, I wouldn't trade 75% of the foundation for him either. I assume you are suggesting that a Cousins trade would involve Beal, Gortat AND one of Porter/Oubre.

I absolutely would not include Porter or Oubre. It would have to be Beal + Gortat, and maybe a lotto protected future 1st.

[stevemcqueen1]

If you trade for Cousins, you need to accept that there could be some locker room issues. That's the only reason Cousins is potentially available in the first place. Hopefully, those locker room issues will be diminished as Cousins continues to mature, and one hopes that Wall would help to lead the locker room into a better direction.

Why take on the headache though? Why put yourself in a situation where you have to hope the leopard changes his spots? Why give Wall someone he has to constantly baby sit or else the locker room will fall apart? We're going to be good next year, and continue to get better, whether or not we trade for Cousins.

[stevemcqueen1]

I wouldn't trade 75% of my foundation for him.

Just for the record, I wouldn't trade 75% of the foundation for him either. I assume you are suggesting that a Cousins trade would involve Beal, Gortat AND one of Porter/Oubre.

I absolutely would not include Porter or Oubre. It would have to be Beal + Gortat, and maybe a lotto protected future 1st.

Yeah, I was talking about Beal + Gortat + Porter/Oubre. But I wouldn't trade Beal + Gortat either. That's still 50% of the foundation, maybe more since Wall and Beal are probably more accurately some split of 75% of the foundation with Gortat and Porter filling in the final 25%.

I'd probably do Porter plus Gortat for him, but I would still be scared as hell to do it. I'd be praying I could bring in KD to further isolate Cousins from any real position of leadership. In that situation, he actually would be the fourth most essential player on the team, which I feel is the appropriate way to deal with him.

In the end though, I'd just pass on him and keep my eye on trying to sign Durant and add him to this existing core we've already built. That'd be more than enough to compete for rings. If we don't sign him, or if he never comes back from his injury, then maybe I'd be more open to Cousins. We're not at that bridge though. Cousins getting traded to someone else and becoming unavailable is a risk I'd be willing to take.

[tontoz]

Cousins is a young guy who averaged 24/13 last season, that is why you trade Beal/Gortat for him. His offensive numbers would surely go up playing with Wall.

[DCZards]

Cousins is a young guy who averaged 24/13 last season, that is why you trade Beal/Gortat for him. His offensive numbers would surely go up playing with Wall.

Do you look solely at the numbers and totally disregard the baggage that comes along with a trade for Cousins? George Karl knows that Demarcus is a 24/13 guy yet he (and probably others in the Kings org.) was perfectly willing to trade him. That speaks volumes.

For the record, I'm not against a trade for Cousins but I'm a lot more wary of adding him to the Zards than some of you. I'm also not convinced that Wall or KD would want him as a teammate.

[tontoz]

Cousins is a young guy who averaged 24/13 last season, that is why you trade Beal/Gortat for him. His offensive numbers would surely go up playing with Wall.

Do you look solely at the numbers and totally disregard the baggage that comes along with a trade for Cousins? George Karl knows that Demarcus is a 24/13 guy yet he (and probably others in the Kings org.) was perfectly willing to trade him. That speaks volumes.

I have been criticizing CCJ for his Wall/Cousins comparisons for years, primarily because of all the baggage Cousins brings.

But the NBA is about talent. Cousins has a lot of it. If we can get Cousins without giving up Wall I think we have to consider it.

The Kings organization is a joke. Would Cousins be better behaved in a better organization that was actually winning? Maybe. He didn't seem to have a problem with Malone and didn't want him fired.

[nate33]

I wouldn't trade 75% of my foundation for him.

Just for the record, I wouldn't trade 75% of the foundation for him either. I assume you are suggesting that a Cousins trade would involve Beal, Gortat AND one of Porter/Oubre.

I absolutely would not include Porter or Oubre. It would have to be Beal + Gortat, and maybe a lotto protected future 1st.

Yeah, I was talking about Beal + Gortat + Porter/Oubre. But I wouldn't trade Beal + Gortat either. That's still 50% of the foundation.

Yes, but you are getting back a foundational piece who is better and much younger than Gortat. You are also saving about $20M a year in salary. Use that $20M to add a foundational piece to replace Beal. Guys like Wes Matthews have been available for less than that.