Otto Porter Part 2

[Wizardspride]

https://sports.yahoo.com/kings-want-pay-otto-porter-like-star-wizards-decision-make-022000394.html

A maximum-salaried deal for a player with four years of NBA service time pays 25 percent of next year’s salary cap, or just under $24.8 million. With standard raises, a full four-year max would pay Porter a little over $106.5 million through the end of the 2021-22 season.

According to Haynes and Spears, Porter hasn’t yet signed the Kings’ offer sheet. He’s reportedly still got a couple of meetings lined up with other suitors, with the Brooklyn Nets — who tried a couple of times last summer to poach RFA wings, but to no avail — reportedly interested in Porter’s services. If Porter holds off on signing any offer sheets until after meeting with Washington, Grunfeld and the Wizards’ brass would have the opportunity to negotiate with Porter on structuring the deal in ways that might guarantee Porter more money but lower the annual salary cap hit — Jake Whitacre of Bullets

[tontoz]

The Wizards aren't going to let Porter walk. The only way i can see Porter not being here next year is if they do a SNT deal for Milsap. Granted i would not be in favor of that but i think it is a possibility.

Then again looking at the Hawks roster they may be high on Prince, in which case a deal is very unlikely.

Hey, If Sacramento really wants him...WCS and Justin Jackson is a really good start.
Not to mention we get a massive TPE that could be used for another deal over the next year.. just a thought

Kings won't do that. JJ yes, WCS no way. Wiz should let Porter walk so they have cap room to go after boogie. If there is one guy boogie wants to play with its wall and then you'd be contenders in the east.

Won't have the cap space to sign Cousins. If i remember right we wouldn't have much more than the MLE if we renounce Porter.

[VeeJay24]

What's the general feeling among Wizards fans on this? I know I can't say **** with the position we're in but I would hate to be forced into maxing Porter.

A max considering his form after the ASB is scary to me

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porteot01/splits/2017

I think Washington's mediocre at best. They'll NEVER get better as long as Grunfeld and Leonsis maintain status quo.

Otto Porter is a selfless, solid player. He did slump in March and April, and I think the prospects for his improvement would improve if he were to be allowed to move on.

I don't think IF HE STAYS A WIZARD he's going to get the minutes or the touches to justify the contract he's going to sign. I don't think Porter has the confidence of John Wall. I think I HATE being a fan of the Wizards the past few years (I've been a fan for 45 years). I am not at all confident than Scott Brooks is a great coach. He prefers Markieff Morris get more attempts than Gortat or Porter.

I won't be surprised if the Wizards do let Otto go. Wall's comments were damning. Porter's the fourth wheel on this team. I hope Porter signs with Sacramento and the becomes the best player he can be. I'm sick of being a Wizards fan. Can't explain how I feel other than to say I'm sick of Grunfeld's crap plus I don't think Brooks did a good job at all in the Celtics series. Wall speaking out for Paul George demotivated me.

What WILL happen is Otto's going to be maxed out but the Wizards won't be a lick better next season. They'll be worse.

This!!!!! Is exactly what I was saying and to the guy saying I hope he doesn't want to be here....don't think for me. I am a Hoya fan, I am also a Wizards fan; more importantly I am a Otto Porter fan!!!! Let me clarify my statements; Otto damn sure would love to be here; but he is not a fool, it comes a point when you have had enough of the garbage. If you really wanted him here you wouldn't be letting other teams do the negotiating for you. Deal would've been done from the start of FA. Everyone and their mother knew Otto was going to get the Max. Hell, I heard it said on a national radio program before the allstar break; deal should've been open & shut. Grunfield has never liked Otto; his actions are quite clear. Leonis needs to wake up get this clown Grunfield out of town. If he doesn't want to spend then sell the team to someone who does. Just to remind folks the Wizards matching Otto would take them into the Luxury Tax and then there's the Wall extension that Wall hasn't signed yet. We will see if Ted wants to paid the Luxury Tax or if Grunfield gets spooked by Wall's reluctance to sign the extension offer.

[Wizardspride]

What's the general feeling among Wizards fans on this? I know I can't say **** with the position we're in but I would hate to be forced into maxing Porter.

A max considering his form after the ASB is scary to me

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porteot01/splits/2017

I think Washington's mediocre at best. They'll NEVER get better as long as Grunfeld and Leonsis maintain status quo.

Otto Porter is a selfless, solid player. He did slump in March and April, and I think the prospects for his improvement would improve if he were to be allowed to move on.

I don't think IF HE STAYS A WIZARD he's going to get the minutes or the touches to justify the contract he's going to sign. I don't think Porter has the confidence of John Wall. I think I HATE being a fan of the Wizards the past few years (I've been a fan for 45 years). I am not at all confident than Scott Brooks is a great coach. He prefers Markieff Morris get more attempts than Gortat or Porter.

I won't be surprised if the Wizards do let Otto go. Wall's comments were damning. Porter's the fourth wheel on this team. I hope Porter signs with Sacramento and the becomes the best player he can be. I'm sick of being a Wizards fan. Can't explain how I feel other than to say I'm sick of Grunfeld's crap plus I don't think Brooks did a good job at all in the Celtics series. Wall speaking out for Paul George demotivated me.

What WILL happen is Otto's going to be maxed out but the Wizards won't be a lick better next season. They'll be worse.

This!!!!! Is exactly what I was saying and to the guy saying I hope he doesn't want to be here....don't think for me. I am a Hoya fan, I am also a Wizards fan; more importantly I am a Otto Porter fan!!!! Let me clarify my statements; Otto damn sure would love to be here; but he is not a fool, it comes a point when you have had enough of the garbage. If you really wanted him here you wouldn't be letting other teams do the negotiating for you. Deal would've been done from the start of FA. Everyone and their mother knew Otto was going to get the Max. Hell, I heard it said on a national radio program before the allstar break; deal should've been open & shut. Grunfield has never liked Otto; his actions are quite clear. Leonis needs to wake up get this clown Grunfield out of town. If he doesn't want to spend then sell the team to someone who does. Just to remind folks the Wizards matching Otto would take them into the Luxury Tax and then there's the Wall extension that Wall hasn't signed yet. We will see if Ted wants to paid the Luxury Tax or if Grunfield gets spooked by Wall's reluctance to sign the extension offer.

No incentive for the Wizards to offer Otto a max deal right of the gate considering they could match any offer.

Has nothing to do with not really wanting him.

It's just smart business. Let the market set the price and don't bid against yourself.

And it looks like the Wiz will actually save money (4 years 106m) versus adding a 5th year.

[pcbothwel]

The Wizards aren't going to let Porter walk. The only way i can see Porter not being here next year is if they do a SNT deal for Milsap. Granted i would not be in favor of that but i think it is a possibility.

Then again looking at the Hawks roster they may be high on Prince, in which case a deal is very unlikely.

Hey, If Sacramento really wants him...WCS and Justin Jackson is a really good start.
Not to mention we get a massive TPE that could be used for another deal over the next year.. just a thought

Kings won't do that. JJ yes, WCS no way. Wiz should let Porter walk so they have cap room to go after boogie. If there is one guy boogie wants to play with its wall and then you'd be contenders in the east.

Wizards dont have cap room chief...
JJ and WCS are both VERY mediocre prospects. The wizards would simply resign otto if thats the offer

[queridiculo]

Leonsis is the biggest turd of an owner in the NBA. The fact that Grunfeld still has a job after the Nicholson and Mahinmi deals is **** absurd.

Every exec that had part in the 2016/17 offseason decision making process should be out of a job right now.

[gambitx777]

https://sports.yahoo.com/kings-want-pay-otto-porter-like-star-wizards-decision-make-022000394.html

A maximum-salaried deal for a player with four years of NBA service time pays 25 percent of next year’s salary cap, or just under $24.8 million. With standard raises, a full four-year max would pay Porter a little over $106.5 million through the end of the 2021-22 season.

According to Haynes and Spears, Porter hasn’t yet signed the Kings’ offer sheet. He’s reportedly still got a couple of meetings lined up with other suitors, with the Brooklyn Nets — who tried a couple of times last summer to poach RFA wings, but to no avail — reportedly interested in Porter’s services. If Porter holds off on signing any offer sheets until after meeting with Washington, Grunfeld and the Wizards’ brass would have the opportunity to negotiate with Porter on structuring the deal in ways that might guarantee Porter more money but lower the annual salary cap hit — Jake Whitacre of Bullets

What probably ly going to end up happening is Otto going to get max offers from kings and nets , go back to eg to see if he can get more and the end play will be Otto signing with us for 5 years 111 million 1 year and a bit more, so it would lower the cap hit a smidge and give him an extra fully garunteed deal.

[SacTown Kings]

Hey, If Sacramento really wants him...WCS and Justin Jackson is a really good start.
Not to mention we get a massive TPE that could be used for another deal over the next year.. just a thought

Kings won't do that. JJ yes, WCS no way. Wiz should let Porter walk so they have cap room to go after boogie. If there is one guy boogie wants to play with its wall and then you'd be contenders in the east.

Wizards dont have cap room chief...
JJ and WCS are both VERY mediocre prospects. The wizards would simply resign otto if thats the offer

Didn't realize how screwed the Wiz are in their cap space. Might as well resign Otto since you won't be able to improve via cap space. WCS is more than a mediocre prospect.

[pcbothwel]

Kings won't do that. JJ yes, WCS no way. Wiz should let Porter walk so they have cap room to go after boogie. If there is one guy boogie wants to play with its wall and then you'd be contenders in the east.

Wizards dont have cap room chief...
JJ and WCS are both VERY mediocre prospects. The wizards would simply resign otto if thats the offer

Didn't realize how screwed the Wiz are in their cap space. Might as well resign Otto since you won't be able to improve via cap space. WCS is more than a mediocre prospect.

We are not "screwed" with our capspace per se. Our back-court is made up of two elite players that are top 5 at their position. You combine that with Otto and there is no way any team would have cap space. Teams like Portland, Toronto, Charlotte, etc. are more in the screwed camp. They are in lux tax, have limited upside, and are committed...

WCS: I think he certainly has a role in this league. But he is 24 and regressed this year statistically. I think Giles would be a good substitute then. Him and Jackson are decent prospects, but that TPE is also real nice for the Wiz.

[vincecarter4pres]

https://sports.yahoo.com/kings-want-pay-otto-porter-like-star-wizards-decision-make-022000394.html

A maximum-salaried deal for a player with four years of NBA service time pays 25 percent of next year’s salary cap, or just under $24.8 million. With standard raises, a full four-year max would pay Porter a little over $106.5 million through the end of the 2021-22 season.

According to Haynes and Spears, Porter hasn’t yet signed the Kings’ offer sheet. He’s reportedly still got a couple of meetings lined up with other suitors, with the Brooklyn Nets — who tried a couple of times last summer to poach RFA wings, but to no avail — reportedly interested in Porter’s services. If Porter holds off on signing any offer sheets until after meeting with Washington, Grunfeld and the Wizards’ brass would have the opportunity to negotiate with Porter on structuring the deal in ways that might guarantee Porter more money but lower the annual salary cap hit — Jake Whitacre of Bullets

What probably ly going to end up happening is Otto going to get max offers from kings and nets , go back to eg to see if he can get more and the end play will be Otto signing with us for 5 years 111 million 1 year and a bit more, so it would lower the cap hit a smidge and give him an extra fully garunteed deal.

I'll be honest, I don't see the logic behind this for Otto and I'm sure his agent would beg him not to do this.

It guarantees him only $5 million more, but severely shrinks the yearly earnings. Even if he had borderline played himself out of the league by the time 4 seasons is up, he could probably still secure a 1 year redemption deal for 2/3rd's of that $5 million.

I get the logic for the Wizards, lower their luxury tax bill, but what that has to do with Porter I don't get.

$26.5 million a season opposed to $22.2 million a season.

I'd imagine he might go back to Washington and say, I have a max deal on the table with a 15% trade kicker for 4 years. Give me 4 years with the added raise percentages and I'll stay. If not, I sign the offer sheet and the balls in your court and if the cap rises dramatically and you try to trade me, at least a portion of that 15% TK will come into play and make it even more difficult to move me.

And even for the extra raise percentages, he's probably still better off just signing and getting matched, that way if he doesn't live up to the deal, most of the onus is on the Wiz for matching instead of him demanding the extra, nickel and diming the organization and there's a chance the TK keeps him out of the rumors as much.

I'm still wondering if it's a lot more likely him and his agent go back to the Wiz and say, please work out a S&T. They are under no obligation to honor his request, but it could be best for all parties involved depending on the return.

If he was going to sign with Brooklyn for example, I could see something along the lines of Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Trevor Booker, one of Joe Harris, Sean Kilpatrick, Goodwin or Dinwiddie and cash offered. It's not a bad move for all sides.

Ultimately I expect him to just sign a max with one of Sacramento or Brooklyn and Washington to match though.

[gambitx777]

https://sports.yahoo.com/kings-want-pay-otto-porter-like-star-wizards-decision-make-022000394.html

What probably ly going to end up happening is Otto going to get max offers from kings and nets , go back to eg to see if he can get more and the end play will be Otto signing with us for 5 years 111 million 1 year and a bit more, so it would lower the cap hit a smidge and give him an extra fully garunteed deal.

I'll be honest, I don't see the logic behind this for Otto and I'm sure his agent would beg him not to do this.

It guarantees him only $5 million more, but severely shrinks the yearly earnings. Even if he had borderline played himself out of the league by the time 4 seasons is up, he could probably still secure a 1 year redemption deal for 2/3rd's of that $5 million.

I get the logic for the Wizards, lower their luxury tax bill, but what that has to do with Porter I don't get.

$26.5 million a season opposed to $22.2 million a season.

I'd imagine he might go back to Washington and say, I have a max deal on the table with a 15% trade kicker for 4 years. Give me 4 years with the added raise percentages and I'll stay. If not, I sign the offer sheet and the balls in your court and if the cap rises dramatically and you try to trade me, at least a portion of that 15% TK will come into play and make it even more difficult to move me.

And even for the extra raise percentages, he's probably still better off just signing and getting matched, that way if he doesn't live up to the deal, most of the onus is on the Wiz for matching instead of him demanding the extra, nickel and diming the organization and there's a chance the TK keeps him out of the rumors as much.

I'm still wondering if it's a lot more likely him and his agent go back to the Wiz and say, please work out a S&T. They are under no obligation to honor his request, but it could be best for all parties involved depending on the return.

If he was going to sign with Brooklyn for example, I could see something along the lines of Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Trevor Booker, one of Joe Harris, Sean Kilpatrick, Goodwin or Dinwiddie and cash offered. It's not a bad move for all sides.

Ultimately I expect him to just sign a max with one of Sacramento or Brooklyn and Washington to match though.

It does make sense for him because your are getting caught up in yearly earnings.
the over all money is the same, spreading it out helps him because if he suffers an ending level injury this money is still guaranteed. Plus the more you spread it out the less he looses to taxes per year, plus 5 mill is 5 mill man, COnsidering we are going to match no matter what it would be smart for him to take the 5 year deal from us, with more over all money attached.

[verbal8]

A 5th year with only 5 million guaranteed might happen. However no matter how it is structured, ~110 million over 5 years will be less appealing that the Kings offer.

To draw a more everyday financial parallel, you might get a deal on a 3 year lease, but it won't be 50% rent the final year.

[80sballboy]

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0673302941293090613-4

Washington had been preparing that Otto Porter would receive a max offer sheet. The Andrew Nicholson trade at the deadline gave the Wizards some tax relief in case a team would sign Porter to a contract. Washington would not have cap relief to sign a player if they let Porter walk.
Bobby Marks, ESPN

[nate33]

https://sports.yahoo.com/kings-want-pay-otto-porter-like-star-wizards-decision-make-022000394.html

What probably ly going to end up happening is Otto going to get max offers from kings and nets , go back to eg to see if he can get more and the end play will be Otto signing with us for 5 years 111 million 1 year and a bit more, so it would lower the cap hit a smidge and give him an extra fully garunteed deal.

I'll be honest, I don't see the logic behind this for Otto and I'm sure his agent would beg him not to do this.

It guarantees him only $5 million more, but severely shrinks the yearly earnings. Even if he had borderline played himself out of the league by the time 4 seasons is up, he could probably still secure a 1 year redemption deal for 2/3rd's of that $5 million.

I get the logic for the Wizards, lower their luxury tax bill, but what that has to do with Porter I don't get.

$26.5 million a season opposed to $22.2 million a season.

I'd imagine he might go back to Washington and say, I have a max deal on the table with a 15% trade kicker for 4 years. Give me 4 years with the added raise percentages and I'll stay. If not, I sign the offer sheet and the balls in your court and if the cap rises dramatically and you try to trade me, at least a portion of that 15% TK will come into play and make it even more difficult to move me.

And even for the extra raise percentages, he's probably still better off just signing and getting matched, that way if he doesn't live up to the deal, most of the onus is on the Wiz for matching instead of him demanding the extra, nickel and diming the organization and there's a chance the TK keeps him out of the rumors as much.

I'm still wondering if it's a lot more likely him and his agent go back to the Wiz and say, please work out a S&T. They are under no obligation to honor his request, but it could be best for all parties involved depending on the return.

If he was going to sign with Brooklyn for example, I could see something along the lines of Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Trevor Booker, one of Joe Harris, Sean Kilpatrick, Goodwin or Dinwiddie and cash offered. It's not a bad move for all sides.

Ultimately I expect him to just sign a max with one of Sacramento or Brooklyn and Washington to match though.

You are right that a mere $6M guaranteed in a 5th year would probably not be enough to convince Porter not to sign the offer sheet. He'd need more incentive than that. Something like 5 years, $121M ought to do it. It's basically guaranteeing him a 5th year at $15M. If you do a 5 year $121M contract with 7.5% raises, the first year is just $21M.

[pcbothwel]

What probably ly going to end up happening is Otto going to get max offers from kings and nets , go back to eg to see if he can get more and the end play will be Otto signing with us for 5 years 111 million 1 year and a bit more, so it would lower the cap hit a smidge and give him an extra fully garunteed deal.

I'll be honest, I don't see the logic behind this for Otto and I'm sure his agent would beg him not to do this.

It guarantees him only $5 million more, but severely shrinks the yearly earnings. Even if he had borderline played himself out of the league by the time 4 seasons is up, he could probably still secure a 1 year redemption deal for 2/3rd's of that $5 million.

I get the logic for the Wizards, lower their luxury tax bill, but what that has to do with Porter I don't get.

$26.5 million a season opposed to $22.2 million a season.

I'd imagine he might go back to Washington and say, I have a max deal on the table with a 15% trade kicker for 4 years. Give me 4 years with the added raise percentages and I'll stay. If not, I sign the offer sheet and the balls in your court and if the cap rises dramatically and you try to trade me, at least a portion of that 15% TK will come into play and make it even more difficult to move me.

And even for the extra raise percentages, he's probably still better off just signing and getting matched, that way if he doesn't live up to the deal, most of the onus is on the Wiz for matching instead of him demanding the extra, nickel and diming the organization and there's a chance the TK keeps him out of the rumors as much.

I'm still wondering if it's a lot more likely him and his agent go back to the Wiz and say, please work out a S&T. They are under no obligation to honor his request, but it could be best for all parties involved depending on the return.

If he was going to sign with Brooklyn for example, I could see something along the lines of Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Trevor Booker, one of Joe Harris, Sean Kilpatrick, Goodwin or Dinwiddie and cash offered. It's not a bad move for all sides.

Ultimately I expect him to just sign a max with one of Sacramento or Brooklyn and Washington to match though.

You are right that a mere $6M guaranteed in a 5th year would probably not be enough to convince Porter not to sign the offer sheet. He'd need more incentive than that. Something like 5 years, $121M ought to do it. It's basically guaranteeing him a 5th year at $15M. If you do a 5 year $121M contract with 7.5% raises, the first year is just $21M.

Nate, I would offer 5/120M with 8% raises (New CBA) and I would include a 10% trade kicker.
Honestly, I think about trading him if he says no. If some team offers him a 3+1 Max deal and a 15% trade kicker, that could be a bad contract.

[nate33]

Nate, I would offer 5/120M with 8% raises (New CBA) and I would include a 10% trade kicker.
Honestly, I think about trading him if he says no. If some team offers him a 3+1 Max deal and a 15% trade kicker, that could be a bad contract.

Thanks. I didn't know that 8% raises were now possible. Yes, we should definitely offer 8% raises. I wouldn't include a trade kicker though. Those things come back to bite you.

[BigA]

Would you need to make the last year a player option?

[verbal8]

Would you need to make the last year a player option?

Only if it allows for a serious discount. I don't think things would head that direction. I think the most likely scenario is a 5th year and either the first(smallest possible salary) or the fifth year(less than half guaranteed) being team friendly.

I think where a player option would come in to play is the offer sheet scenario. The offering team might want the player option(4th year) as a bit of a "poison pill". At 3 years, if the player declines, the team still retains full bird rights at that point.

[nate33]

Keep in mind that the cap is not projected to escalate in the next few years. Indeed, it may decline. With a flat or declining cap, and an increasing number of player signed to modern-cap-era contracts, there is likely to be much less cap room chasing free agents in 2020, 2021 and 2022. With that the case, it is pretty unlikely that Porter will find himself in a scenario where opting out will be a good move for him. A player option just isn't the incentive it would normally be.

[NatP4]

Keep in mind that the cap is not projected to escalate in the next few years. Indeed, it may decline. With a flat or declining cap, and an increasing number of player signed to modern-cap-era contracts, there is likely to be much less cap room chasing free agents in 2020, 2021 and 2022. With that the case, it is pretty unlikely that Porter will find himself in a scenario where opting out will be a good move for him. A player option just isn't the incentive it would normally be.

So nate, help me understand the cap situation. We sit at 98 million after the mike Scott deal, so we need to stay below the salary cap to then re sign Otto to the max? And does Bojans 4.6 QO come off whenever he signs with another team and we decline to match?

Is the more likely scenario that we acquire a TPE for Bojan, re sign Otto, go over the cap and into the luxury tax, and then use the TMLE and a TPE? I can't see them having enough room to make any trade with the an acquired TPE to take on even more salary, AND then using the full non taxpayer MLE and still being able to re sign Otto, or can they go over the salary cap and then still re sign Otto into the lux tax??? I'm forgetting how that works from the Beal situation