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Political Roundtable Part XII

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1521 » by Kanyewest » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:03 pm

Illuminaire wrote:I'm sort of with Nate on this one. I don't think it's all that unheard of for quiet backchannel communication to happen. Flynn talking to people isn't an issue to me.

Lying about it to his own boss, THAT is a problem. (And of course, if he was working for any end but the good of America, then that is a major problem too. I'm going to wait and see on that part of things. Too much hysteria in the news cycle, it usually takes a few weeks before the sober facts are available and the hyperbole is filtered out)

This is more of a black eye on Flynn than anyone else, but it does reflect poorly on Donald's hiring practices. That is one obvious, ongoing negative about the Trump whitehouse... everything is done quickly, but it's not always done well. I hope they learn from these early mistakes and take a more considered approach to future decisions.


It doesn't look good. From afar, it looks like Flynn was actively working against the Russian Sanctions that the Obama Administration had put forward against Russia. It may be why Russia didn't follow suit and respond with their own sanctions afterwards. It is illegal to work against what the current presidency so I have to disagree that it doesn't look good for Trump administration if he knew what Flynn was talking about.

But yeah Flynn looks pretty incompetent especially since it is well known that conversations are recorded by the intelligence community.

The timing of the firing of the acting attorney general also does not look good for the Trump. She had inadvertantly told Trump in a letter that Flynn had been compromised by the Russians a few days before she was let go. Ultimately, the press might have re-evaluate the reasons on why she was fired.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1522 » by DCZards » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:04 pm

sfam wrote:We have the President lying on TV on this literally just yesterday ("Questions about the NSA Advisor? I haven't seen those reports.." - even though the WH was informed right after taking office). Why on earth would you think Trump had no knowledge of Flynns actions during the campaign and after winning, but prior to taking office? This is like a critical concern.


Pres. Trump "lying"? I'm shocked. :)

Donald "The Novice" Trump has put together an incompetent, inexperienced team and cabinet that is essentially a house of cards. Expect more of this kind of implosion.

As for Flynn, I'm glad the arrogant, dangerous traitor was the first to bite the dust.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1523 » by AFM » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:12 pm

Doug_Blew wrote:Any updates on Pizza Gate?

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate

PIZZAGATE is real!

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PIZZAGATE IS REAL!!!!!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1524 » by bealwithit » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:19 pm

sfam wrote:
nate33 wrote:I still don't think that Flynn committed any type of crime by talking to Russia before the Inauguration. As Charles Krauthammer said yesterday, "It's a cover up with out a crime". That said, Flynn apparently lied to Pence. Trump has few people he can trust, he certainly can't have a guy in his inner circle that he can't trust. I'm glad he resigned. Looks like the best outcome for all.

It's definitely a black eye for the Trump administration, but life goes on.

This really is amazing. Republicans to a person were ready to draw and quarter Hillary for not having direct control over the specific security procedures taking place at every post around the world.

Strangely now, Trump holds no responsibility for the actions of his National Security Advisor, literally the most important appointment the POTUS makes. We have a situation where the Russians impacted our election in Trump's direction, and where Trump has continually been appeasing Putin. Obama put sanctions and penalties on Russia specifically for influencing our election. Trump's NSA advisor calls the Russians the day of the sanctions saying not to worry about them - that this will be taken care of later. People not connected to the Republican party might wonder if there was a payback happening. People might really start to wonder how much Trump owes Puting financially

As far as the Republicans are now concerned, no worries here though, its in the past. Nothing to see here. Just a random NSA advisor going rogue!

And they knew about this on January 23, when the now fired acting Attorney General told the WH council. Trump didn't know about this? Are you freaking kidding me????

This! Is! The! Story! Folks!
He knew and didn't care to make a move until that NYT story dropped last night. They rolled Conway out to say the President had full confidence in Flynn and then he was gone hours later.

Also, this will probably be overlooked by many.
Abe says Trump encouraged him to boost ties, dialogue with Putin
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/02/14/national/politics-diplomacy/abe-says-trump-encouraged-boost-ties-dialogue-putin/#.WKMtAvkrK03
For people already cool with being BFFs with Russia, I guess you won't care, but this is yet another example of Trump being favorable to them. The actual things Abe says he agreed with are fine too I just cannot believe Obama was hounded for being soft on Russia and then this guy is your new face of the Republican Party.
From 2014: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/02/mike-rogers-russia_n_4884922.html
Then later: http://www.politico.com/blogs/donald-trump-administration/2016/11/mike-rogers-resigns-trump-transition-231401
At least someone's got a clue.

We need the transcripts of those calls immediately.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1525 » by sfam » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:26 pm

closg00 wrote:The Republican investigation into what happened at Benghazi was the longest and most expensive in U.S. history, yet these coward Republicans are pretending this Russian thing is nothing to investigate. More stunning hypocrisy.

Chaffetz Won't Investigate Flynn: 'It's Taking Care Of Itself' http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jason-chaffetz-michael-flynn_us_58a31aa2e4b03df370da45b9


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Exactly. This stuff really does go directly to the fragility of our system and the continuing lack of trust, rightfully so.

Investigations used to be associated with the national interest. Clearly this is no longer the case. A sitting National Security Advisor who is compromised by the Russians is like top of the heap of things needing investigation.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1526 » by sfam » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:29 pm

DCZards wrote:
sfam wrote:We have the President lying on TV on this literally just yesterday ("Questions about the NSA Advisor? I haven't seen those reports.." - even though the WH was informed right after taking office). Why on earth would you think Trump had no knowledge of Flynns actions during the campaign and after winning, but prior to taking office? This is like a critical concern.


Pres. Trump "lying"? I'm shocked. :)

Donald "The Novice" Trump has put together an incompetent, inexperienced team and cabinet that is essentially a house of cards. Expect more of this kind of implosion.

As for Flynn, I'm glad the arrogant, dangerous traitor was the first to bite the dust.

We seem to take it for granted that our President is a pathological liar. This will actually be a problem when a world crisis happens. Literally, nobody in the world will trust a word the Trump administration will say. The opponents of the crisis will pounce. Just imagine trying to nail Iran for their normal crazy behavior and follow-up lies. Now the clear response will be, "Who are you calling a liar? Look in the mirror."

EDIT: This should be a great thing that Flynn is gone. Hopefully we get at least another adult not beholden to Trump. Even if they are all ex-Generals, I'll take that over crazy islamophobic liars.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1527 » by dckingsfan » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:44 pm

sfam wrote:
DCZards wrote:
sfam wrote:We have the President lying on TV on this literally just yesterday ("Questions about the NSA Advisor? I haven't seen those reports.." - even though the WH was informed right after taking office). Why on earth would you think Trump had no knowledge of Flynns actions during the campaign and after winning, but prior to taking office? This is like a critical concern.


Pres. Trump "lying"? I'm shocked. :)

Donald "The Novice" Trump has put together an incompetent, inexperienced team and cabinet that is essentially a house of cards. Expect more of this kind of implosion.

As for Flynn, I'm glad the arrogant, dangerous traitor was the first to bite the dust.

We seem to take it for granted that our President is a pathological liar. This will actually be a problem when a world crisis happens. Literally, nobody in the world will trust a word the Trump administration will say. The opponents of the crisis will pounce. Just imagine trying to nail Iran for their normal crazy behavior and follow-up lies. Now the clear response will be, "Who are you calling a liar? Look in the mirror."

EDIT: This should be a great thing that Flynn is gone. Hopefully we get at least another adult not beholden to Trump. Even if they are all ex-Generals, I'll take that over crazy islamophobic liars.

There is also the law of irrationality. No one wanted to f&k with Reagan. But they were happy to do so with Carter. Why? They weren't sure of the response they would get from Reagan.

Obama was a bit of the same way. Opponents didn't need to worry that he might escalate a situation. If there was risk, he was happy to sit on the sidelines.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1528 » by DCZards » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:05 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
sfam wrote:
DCZards wrote:
Pres. Trump "lying"? I'm shocked. :)

Donald "The Novice" Trump has put together an incompetent, inexperienced team and cabinet that is essentially a house of cards. Expect more of this kind of implosion.

As for Flynn, I'm glad the arrogant, dangerous traitor was the first to bite the dust.

We seem to take it for granted that our President is a pathological liar. This will actually be a problem when a world crisis happens. Literally, nobody in the world will trust a word the Trump administration will say. The opponents of the crisis will pounce. Just imagine trying to nail Iran for their normal crazy behavior and follow-up lies. Now the clear response will be, "Who are you calling a liar? Look in the mirror."

EDIT: This should be a great thing that Flynn is gone. Hopefully we get at least another adult not beholden to Trump. Even if they are all ex-Generals, I'll take that over crazy islamophobic liars.

There is also the law of irrationality. No one wanted to f&k with Reagan. But they were happy to do so with Carter. Why? They weren't sure of the response they would get from Reagan.

Obama was a bit of the same way. Opponents didn't need to worry that he might escalate a situation. If there was risk, he was happy to sit on the sidelines.


I'm not so sure that having an "irrational" president is a good thing, especially one that is both narcissistic and inexperienced. We ALL should be worried about how that kind of individual might respond to a crisis.

I didn't have any problem with Obama's rational approach to foreign affairs...and his efforts to avoid escalating situations. Obama got us out of two wars and didn't get us into any others. That's a good thing, imo.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1529 » by bealwithit » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:23 pm

DCZards wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
sfam wrote:We seem to take it for granted that our President is a pathological liar. This will actually be a problem when a world crisis happens. Literally, nobody in the world will trust a word the Trump administration will say. The opponents of the crisis will pounce. Just imagine trying to nail Iran for their normal crazy behavior and follow-up lies. Now the clear response will be, "Who are you calling a liar? Look in the mirror."

EDIT: This should be a great thing that Flynn is gone. Hopefully we get at least another adult not beholden to Trump. Even if they are all ex-Generals, I'll take that over crazy islamophobic liars.

There is also the law of irrationality. No one wanted to f&k with Reagan. But they were happy to do so with Carter. Why? They weren't sure of the response they would get from Reagan.

Obama was a bit of the same way. Opponents didn't need to worry that he might escalate a situation. If there was risk, he was happy to sit on the sidelines.


I'm not so sure that having an "irrational" president is a good thing, especially one that is both narcissistic and inexperienced. We ALL should be worried about how that kind of individual might respond to a crisis.

I didn't have any problem with Obama's rational approach to foreign affairs...and his efforts to avoid escalating situations. Obama got us out of two wars and didn't get us into any others. That's a good thing, imo.

Yeah, I thought Trump supporters wanted no more wars in the Middle East. Now they find irrationality to be a positive quality? Huh? Can't wait for war with Iran when Donald tweets out his "irrational" response to something they do.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1530 » by closg00 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:56 pm

The Iranians tested a missile shortly after Trump had taken office, clearly they didn't get the memo about shaking in their shoes.


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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1531 » by dckingsfan » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:59 pm

And Trump has already back down from One China - so there is that... just saying that being to predictable isn't always helpful.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1532 » by sfam » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:24 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
sfam wrote:
DCZards wrote:
Pres. Trump "lying"? I'm shocked. :)

Donald "The Novice" Trump has put together an incompetent, inexperienced team and cabinet that is essentially a house of cards. Expect more of this kind of implosion.

As for Flynn, I'm glad the arrogant, dangerous traitor was the first to bite the dust.

We seem to take it for granted that our President is a pathological liar. This will actually be a problem when a world crisis happens. Literally, nobody in the world will trust a word the Trump administration will say. The opponents of the crisis will pounce. Just imagine trying to nail Iran for their normal crazy behavior and follow-up lies. Now the clear response will be, "Who are you calling a liar? Look in the mirror."

EDIT: This should be a great thing that Flynn is gone. Hopefully we get at least another adult not beholden to Trump. Even if they are all ex-Generals, I'll take that over crazy islamophobic liars.

There is also the law of irrationality. No one wanted to f&k with Reagan. But they were happy to do so with Carter. Why? They weren't sure of the response they would get from Reagan.

Obama was a bit of the same way. Opponents didn't need to worry that he might escalate a situation. If there was risk, he was happy to sit on the sidelines.

That was probably true for actual nation states like Russia. The Red Line thing was horrific. Obama shouldn't have asked permission from Congress - who did not provide it BTW - a VERY different situation from all of previous history - you literally could not have gotten a more political response to an international crisis. More importantly he should have found a way to implement Responsibility to Protect somewhere in Syria. He determined this was impossible, and he may be right, but it led to a massive exodus.

But this is not the case regarding non-state actors. NOBODY in ISIS regardless of the country is sad to see Obama go. The number of drone strikes to senior leaders was significantly ramped up with Obama, in a ton of countries. Nobody in ISIS, Al Qaeda or other groups like them sees Obama as weak. They were quite afraid of Obama and are thrilled Trump has replaced him.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1533 » by gtn130 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:26 pm

Read on Twitter


Yep. Totally. Good stuff.

Wikileaks isn't partisan at all.

Little known fact about me is that I, gtn130, in fact side with them over the intelligence community.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1534 » by sfam » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:34 pm

If I was going to hallucinate about what I think actually happened, I think Trump was actually directing Flynn's interactions with Russia prior to the election and prior to taking office on Dec 30th when the discussion about election sanctions took place. Trump is like insanely interested in all things Russia - its not plausible Trump wasn't intimately aware. It is totally plausible that he did not share this with Pence.

This explains why Trump didn't mind that Pence was lied to on Jan 15th, even after learning about it on the 26th, according to Spicey, today. Trump knew what Flynn was doing, knew it was sketchy, and didn't want to be caught with it. Flynn is his scapegoat.

At some point we will find out whether what Flynn did was illegal or merely unseemly. My guess is we'll also find out Trump's knowledge about this.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1535 » by sfam » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:40 pm

DCZards wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
sfam wrote:We seem to take it for granted that our President is a pathological liar. This will actually be a problem when a world crisis happens. Literally, nobody in the world will trust a word the Trump administration will say. The opponents of the crisis will pounce. Just imagine trying to nail Iran for their normal crazy behavior and follow-up lies. Now the clear response will be, "Who are you calling a liar? Look in the mirror."

EDIT: This should be a great thing that Flynn is gone. Hopefully we get at least another adult not beholden to Trump. Even if they are all ex-Generals, I'll take that over crazy islamophobic liars.

There is also the law of irrationality. No one wanted to f&k with Reagan. But they were happy to do so with Carter. Why? They weren't sure of the response they would get from Reagan.

Obama was a bit of the same way. Opponents didn't need to worry that he might escalate a situation. If there was risk, he was happy to sit on the sidelines.


I'm not so sure that having an "irrational" president is a good thing, especially one that is both narcissistic and inexperienced. We ALL should be worried about how that kind of individual might respond to a crisis.

I didn't have any problem with Obama's rational approach to foreign affairs...and his efforts to avoid escalating situations. Obama got us out of two wars and didn't get us into any others. That's a good thing, imo.


The world has literally never been this unpredictable. It certainly has been more unstable in grand scale (WWII for instance), but there are more conflicts and more refugees than at any point in history. Putting a narcissistic idiot savant in the most powerful position in the world is probably not in the best interest of America or anyone else.

Welcome to the new reality TV show that is our actual reality. Its in everyone's interest to ramp up the craziness - CNN, the White House, the Democratic base, Congress on down. Stability is just not what we're going to see for the next 4 years.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1536 » by Illuminaire » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:42 pm

Given the intense amount of scrutiny Trump is under regarding Russia, I think it would be insane of him to try to do anything sketchy even if he is the Manchurian Candidate some believe he is. It makes way more sense to lay low and work things slow and subtle, for maximum impact and benefit to your communist masters. :P

So my best guess is that ignorance and incompetence better explain this situation than malevolence.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1537 » by Wizardspride » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:42 pm

Read on Twitter



Read on Twitter



Read on Twitter

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1538 » by sfam » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:45 pm

bealwithit wrote:
DCZards wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:There is also the law of irrationality. No one wanted to f&k with Reagan. But they were happy to do so with Carter. Why? They weren't sure of the response they would get from Reagan.

Obama was a bit of the same way. Opponents didn't need to worry that he might escalate a situation. If there was risk, he was happy to sit on the sidelines.


I'm not so sure that having an "irrational" president is a good thing, especially one that is both narcissistic and inexperienced. We ALL should be worried about how that kind of individual might respond to a crisis.

I didn't have any problem with Obama's rational approach to foreign affairs...and his efforts to avoid escalating situations. Obama got us out of two wars and didn't get us into any others. That's a good thing, imo.

Yeah, I thought Trump supporters wanted no more wars in the Middle East. Now they find irrationality to be a positive quality? Huh? Can't wait for war with Iran when Donald tweets out his "irrational" response to something they do.

The really scary part to anyone who has spent any time in countries ruled by petty dictators - their pace of news is all about responding to perceived slights. Doesn't matter when you arrive - the dictator is always outraged about someone for something dealing with respect of grabbing his perceived goods.

Trump calling out a petty dictator will only result in crazy responses by the petty dictator. Getting recognition by POTUS from a North Korean dictator for instance, is like a major win. We can only guess how Trump responds on twitter at 3:00 am when he's awake and thinking about whatever crazy thing the dictator said about his hand size.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1539 » by sfam » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:50 pm

Illuminaire wrote:Given the intense amount of scrutiny Trump is under regarding Russia, I think it would be insane of him to try to do anything sketchy even if he is the Manchurian Candidate some believe he is. It makes way more sense to lay low and work things slow and subtle, for maximum impact and benefit to your communist masters. :P

So my best guess is that ignorance and incompetence better explain this situation than malevolence.


You're assuming there is no financial liability. I honestly cannot for the life of me figure out why people are forgetting this. There is a real reason Trump won't release his taxes. My guess is that reason is tightly correlated with his intense and public love for all things Putin.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XII 

Post#1540 » by Illuminaire » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:54 pm

Actually I'm assuming that if there is financial liability, Trump would be even more careful not to make a sudden and easily discoverable move that would get him imprisoned for the rest of his life.

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