Political Roundtable Part XXVII

[pancakes3]

By that logic, youth sports shouldn't exist bc little kids aren't at full physical capacity yet.

Please stop posting. If this is you at full brain function, you're not capable of debating politics in a meaningful way.

[bsilver]

I recently read an interesting book about the assassination of James Garfield.

I too was thinking of Garfield recently. It was in response to Zonk's comments about making the DOJ independent, and Barr's actions. Garfield was assassinated by a loon who thought that he deserved a political appointment and when he was snubbed, he shot Garfield.

Trump has abused the spoils system on a pretty gross level thus far. These are just random thoughts, really.

Mention of the spoils system reminds me of another just read book, "The Fifth Risk", by Michael Lewis. It's about what happens if the people given control of government have no idea how it works, and the subsequent consequences. Which is what happened after the last election. It's interesting that there was one person who was initially running the Trump transition that was actually competent and did care that it go smoothly. That was Chris Christie, but he was fired early on because he was hated by Jared Kushner.

I wouldn't recommend the The Fifth Risk. It's an easy read, but too depressing - at least for me. The Garfield book is definitely worth reading, Destiny of the Republic: A Tale of Madness, Medicine and the Murder of a President, by Candace Millard.

[Ruzious]

By that logic, youth sports shouldn't exist bc little kids aren't at full physical capacity yet.

Please stop posting. If this is you at full brain function, you're not capable of debating politics in a meaningful way.

That's the way to respond to him - by not quoting him. Thank you.

So... the Trump's really should get a sponsor for the WH Scandal of the Day - another way for the family to make a buck by being fill in the blank. Today's episode starts with this conflict of interest and absence of shame story. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-democrats-ask-secret-service-for-details-about-its-payments-to-trumps-company/ar-BBZVGNV?li=BBnb7Kz

[Pointgod]

So quick question for the mods here because I’m not sure where the line is. Daoneandonly does the equivalent of a child throwing a temper tantrum and taking a dump on the living room floor but the rest of us are supposed to tip toe around this giant piece of **** but not scold him? His rants have gone into full on crazy and I think the only difference between him and STD is frequency of posts. I don’t agree with other posters here on a lot of issues but we put up actual good faith arguments and not some complete and utter nonsense.

[Zonkerbl]

Isn't one of the realgm rules that you're not supposed to tell the mods how to do their jobs? I'm going to be quiet and trust them. This is a really permissive thread on a very tolerant board.

Still, rebroadcasting a conspiracy theory baselessly accusing Clinton of pedophilia that almost resulted in innocent people being murdered... That's a lot. Not sure I'm willing to participate in a thread that's *that* permissive.

And that's all I'm going to say.

[Zonkerbl]

BTW I didn't say the doj needs to be independent. I said it needs to be restructured, and later said there has to be an independent body responsible for investigating crimes committed by the executive branch.

Now "independent" is the key word here. If it answers to Congress then you're trading one kind of problem for another.

In Lesotho the DCEO is toothless because the prime minister makes all the appointments. I don't think having parliament make the appointments is a good solution (because the appointments are still political). Requiring the appointments to be merit based (e.g. you present the PM with a list of candidates who have been proven to be technically qualified) would help somewhat, I think. Trump right now wants to replace OIGs around the government with unqualified loyal toadies. If you have to prove you are qualified to be an OIG *first* then that problem is assuaged somewhat.

Would be good to do that with judges also. Trump is filling the bench with unqualified loyalists. Now, the way the system works, mostly what that means is those judges will get overturned all the time and never get promoted. It's really not in your interest to appoint losers to the bench. Still, it adds unnecessary friction to the system. Problem is ensuring the evaluation of merit doesn't get injected with political bias, which is why we don't currently have a competence or merit-based threshold you have to reach before you can be nominated to a judgeship.

But with investigations of crimes of the executive branch, we're past that point. There's a constant drumbeat of demand for politically motivated criminal investigations of the executive branch from the Republican side, and those need to be done by an independent body that won't just rubberstamp Trump's political vendettas (like Barr is doing now). And on the other side, crimes committed by the president and his lackies need to be investigated seriously, credibly, competently.

Otherwise the DOJ can continue to operate the way it always has. The POTUS is the chief law enforcement officer at the federal level, as it should be and there's no reason to change that. As long as the POTUS agrees to abide by the law, which up until this point he has. Now Trump has forced us to take this step.

Now the trick is to set this up in a way that the Republicans can't just turn right around and use it to undermine the rule of law, like they've done with every other institution so far this presidency. And it's hard to anticipate how they'll do it - they've got the best lawyers in the world working on destroying democracy right now and they're doing a good job.

Ideally we would just sweep the three branches and drive the fascists out of office for several decades, but that's just not the way the political game works here - even if we win in 2020, it's likely most voters will pat themselves on the back and say "mission accomplished." But those billionaire funded lawyers aren't going away, and complacency will almost certainly lose the House to the fascists again in 2022. So we have to design all these institutions very surgically with fascist manipulation in mind. Like, what is merit exactly? Who gets put on the panel deciding who meets the merit bar and who doesn't? Very tricky.

[Ruzious]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/barr-blasts-trumps-tweets-impossible-for-me-to-do-my-job-abc-news-exclusive/ar-BBZYHjr?li=BBnb7Kz
It's like Piggy from Lord of the Flies trying to stand up to Jack. But apparently this is real life.

[pancakes3]

i don't think this is Barr taking a principled stand but rather Barr trying to tell Trump any way hi can to stop making these things public when it'd be much easier to abuse power on the down low. the entire "put pressure on the prosecutors" would have 1/10 of the press but for Trump tweeting his displeasure.

but call me a cynic.

[Kanyewest]

Read on Twitter

[Ruzious]

For today's episode of WH Daily Douche, our scandal of the day is https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/barr-blasts-trumps-tweets-impossible-for-me-to-do-my-job-abc-news-exclusive/ar-BBZYHjr?li=BBnb7Kz Trump is threatening NY and Andrew Cuomo if NY doesn't drop all investigations regarding the Administration and his personal finances. He's also requiring NY to lower taxes. Apparently NY State AG Letitia James has been doing her job really well, and Trump's not happy about that. She ain't backing down.

[verbal8]

i don't think this is Barr taking a principled stand but rather Barr trying to tell Trump any way hi can to stop making these things public when it'd be much easier to abuse power on the down low. the entire "put pressure on the prosecutors" would have 1/10 of the press but for Trump tweeting his displeasure.

but call me a cynic.

Until proven otherwise, I am going to go with the cynical interpretation.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Andrew Yang dropping out probably helps out Bernie.

Probably. The interesting thing about Yang is he's basically the only Democratic candidate where I think he'd make a solid VP candidate. Normally I don't like the idea of picking another of the candidates is a great idea and I still think that could easily be the best course of action; it still absolutely is in the case of all the other candidates. Yang, though, brings in potential voters that legitimately won't vote at all if he's not there and that's something the Democrats need. I don't even think it matters who the winner is; Yang would be a solid choice. Of course, it doesn't have to be him but the more I think about it the more it makes sense.

[dckingsfan]

Andrew Yang dropping out probably helps out Bernie.

Probably. The interesting thing about Yang is he's basically the only Democratic candidate where I think he'd make a solid VP candidate. Normally I don't like the idea of picking another of the candidates is a great idea and I still think that could easily be the best course of action; it still absolutely is in the case of all the other candidates. Yang, though, brings in potential voters that legitimately won't vote at all if he's not there and that's something the Democrats need. I don't even think it matters who the winner is; Yang would be a solid choice. Of course, it doesn't have to be him but the more I think about it the more it makes sense.

Perfect for Bloomberg who is now third in the polls and will quickly pass Biden.

[Pointgod]

So this **** Trump is just doing the quid pro quo out in the open now. This is insane, I’m trying to figure out when will people give a damn.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/13/trump-new-york-investigations-114991

Hours before New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo was set to meet the president at the White House, Trump tweeted that Cuomo “must understand” that National Security far exceeds politics,” a reference to his administration’s recent decision to halt New York’s access to the Global Entry and other “trusted traveler” programs that allow New Yorkers faster border crossings and shorter airport lines.

Trump continued, “New York must stop all of its unnecessary lawsuits & harrassment, start cleaning itself up, and lowering taxes.”

Trump’s invocation of “lawsuits & harrassment” was a reference to the state’s numerous lawsuits against his administration and also against Trump’s business, which is based in New York.

[Pointgod]

Andrew Yang dropping out probably helps out Bernie.

Probably. The interesting thing about Yang is he's basically the only Democratic candidate where I think he'd make a solid VP candidate. Normally I don't like the idea of picking another of the candidates is a great idea and I still think that could easily be the best course of action; it still absolutely is in the case of all the other candidates. Yang, though, brings in potential voters that legitimately won't vote at all if he's not there and that's something the Democrats need. I don't even think it matters who the winner is; Yang would be a solid choice. Of course, it doesn't have to be him but the more I think about it the more it makes sense.

Perfect for Bloomberg who is now third in the polls and will quickly pass Biden.

Doing the math, Bernie is all but guaranteed the nomination if other candidates don’t drop out early. If some establishment idiots convinced Bloomberg to get into the race, well congratulations you just handed Bernie the nomination you morons. It’s hilariously stupid. Bloomberg is not winning the nomination, former Republican and notorious racist is not going to appeal to the Democratic base.

[dckingsfan]

Probably. The interesting thing about Yang is he's basically the only Democratic candidate where I think he'd make a solid VP candidate. Normally I don't like the idea of picking another of the candidates is a great idea and I still think that could easily be the best course of action; it still absolutely is in the case of all the other candidates. Yang, though, brings in potential voters that legitimately won't vote at all if he's not there and that's something the Democrats need. I don't even think it matters who the winner is; Yang would be a solid choice. Of course, it doesn't have to be him but the more I think about it the more it makes sense.

Perfect for Bloomberg who is now third in the polls and will quickly pass Biden.

Doing the math, Bernie is all but guaranteed the nomination if other candidates don’t drop out early. If some establishment idiots convinced Bloomberg to get into the race, well congratulations you just handed Bernie the nomination you morons. It’s hilariously stupid. Bloomberg is not winning the nomination, former Republican and notorious racist is not going to appeal to the Democratic base.

Careful what you wish for... If Biden drops out... you could actually see Bloomberg get enough votes for a contested convention. That is all that would have to happen.

[daoneandonly]

yea youth sports is the same as power to elect officials, what a stupid asinine argument. But then again you're a blatant liar too, the guy who said he can have friendly debates with nate and then post crap like this

lol, nate, you dumb muphuckaaaaaa are you serious? you really don't find anything wrong with SD?! you're just going sit on your maga lard azz out in the middle of flyover country pretending everything's good?! wake up!!!! HE NOT POSTING IN GOOD FAITH. he's screaming into the void, trying to bait people into engaging with him because he's a sad, insecure, lonely man..

all you do is attack people who don't line up to your easy, hand out, everything free, work for nothing line of thinking. Nate, SD, popp, myself, you just cant have a nice discussion with someone who sees things differently. You call people sad, insecure, lonely, strong words from a guy who has virtual friends that he needs applause and and-1s from to make his day.

[dckingsfan]

[Pointgod]

i don't think this is Barr taking a principled stand but rather Barr trying to tell Trump any way hi can to stop making these things public when it'd be much easier to abuse power on the down low. the entire "put pressure on the prosecutors" would have 1/10 of the press but for Trump tweeting his displeasure.

but call me a cynic.

Until proven otherwise, I am going to go with the cynical interpretation.

Bill Barr is a piece of **** and this is all just political theatre. If he was serious about holding the independence of the justice department and pushing back against Trump he’d reverse the changes to the sentencing guidelines for Roger Stone and recuse himself from all cases related to Trump. He won’t because he doesn’t care.

[Wizardspride]

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