Bradley Beal - Part II

[Induveca]

Cousins is a young guy who averaged 24/13 last season, that is why you trade Beal/Gortat for him. His offensive numbers would surely go up playing with Wall.

Do you look solely at the numbers and totally disregard the baggage that comes along with a trade for Cousins? George Karl knows that Demarcus is a 24/13 guy yet he (and probably others in the Kings org.) was perfectly willing to trade him. That speaks volumes.

For the record, I'm not against a trade for Cousins but I'm a lot more wary of adding him to the Zards than some of you. I'm also not convinced that Wall or KD would want him as a teammate.

So basically you are channeling your inner Abe Pollin in the months leading up to the Webber trade? The thing is Cousins has never had *ANY* off-court issues. He averaged 24/13 last year, if that's "mailing it in" as McQueen alluded to......yes PLEASE get him to the Wizards.

Take Beal/Gortat/and a 1st rounder. NO problem.

[J-Ves]

Take Beal/Gortat/and a 1st rounder. NO problem.

Hell, I'd throw Oubre in there as well if it got it done. The best part is it doesn't interfere with our pursuit of KD.
1. If KD comes here a tiro of Wall, DMC, KD plus Porter and a bunch of minimum salary ring chasing shooter types creates a true title contender as early as next year.
2. if KD doesn't come here we still have a top PG and top center along with a great glue guy in Porter. We will have a decent amount of cap space to fill out the roster and we will be one of the favorites in the east for years to come.

[WizarDynasty]

dmc and wall alpha personalities ===that emotional and basketball passion transform a team into a title contender. Separated their weak, combine them and they are like an old transformer cartoon character. Devastator.
almost like klay and steph.
unselfish basketball players that play with passion are what make wall and dmc soul mate basketball players.
Klay and steph...splash brothers because they have been training that quick release three pointer are their lives.

dmc and wall have been playing with passion all their lives so they read each others passion as if it is a second language. what would drives them to greatness. so powerful that it would defeat even the great splash brother dynamic.
wall and dmc are skilled but not the most skilled at their positions. they both have the most passion for the game at their respective positions and when you put those two energies together over time, something magical happens. Kind of like Magic and Kareem.
sums is greater than separate parts.
Beal and wall dynamic is more of a parasite host relationship. Beal makes people pay for doubling wall...but beal can't return the energy. If you treat both of these parts as if they are equal, then team dynamic is destroyed.
If beal had a post game that he could go to that wasn't reliant on wall breaking down a defense like klay thompson does, then the two could be consider equals.

[stevemcqueen1]

I think we need a special wing of the HoF thread for WizD.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

No BS, I love his posts.

WD says things that I just don't read elsewhere. Disqualify all you want, there are invariably nuggets of pure genius in his strongest takes.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

dmc and wall alpha personalities ===that emotional and basketball passion transform a team into a title contender. Separated their weak, combine them and they are like an old transformer cartoon character. Devastator.
almost like klay and steph.
unselfish basketball players that play with passion are what make wall and dmc soul mate basketball players.
Klay and steph...splash brothers because they have been training that quick release three pointer are their lives.

dmc and wall have been playing with passion all their lives so they read each others passion as if it is a second language. what would drives them to greatness. so powerful that it would defeat even the great splash brother dynamic.
wall and dmc are skilled but not the most skilled at their positions. they both have the most passion for the game at their respective positions and when you put those two energies together over time, something magical happens. Kind of like Magic and Kareem.
sums is greater than separate parts.

Beal and wall dynamic is more of a parasite host relationship. Beal makes people pay for doubling wall...but beal can't return the energy. If you treat both of these parts as if they are equal, then team dynamic is destroyed.
If beal had a post game that he could go to that wasn't reliant on wall breaking down a defense like klay thompson does, then the two could be consider equals.

WD, I totally agree with you that combined those guys are greater than their separate parts.

I want Cousins MORE than Durant.

I think Gortat would be a good foil to take any flack away from Cousins. I think Otto Porter is PERFECT for both Wall and Cousins.

I would trade the rest of the Wizards away just to keep Wall, Cousins, Porter, and Gortat.

I would trade a whole heap of first round picks away, just to get that core.

IF I COULD, I would KEEP BEAL. PARASITE/HOST or not, Beal's got a squeaky clean reputation but he's that guy with the temper that makes things happen positive (or negatively). I would keep Beal just because he's going to have to be the spokesperson for Wall and Cousins IMO.

That kid Oubre isn't ready ... yet.

Wall with Cousins should have happened ... like yesterday ... as far as I'm concerned.

MARKETING! Wall's got a strong, positive appeal. Cousins has a strong personality that is waiting for a national stage. Meta World Peace went from Malice at the Palace brawl villain to cult hero. As a Laker, he was able to tell the story about the guy who got stabbed to death with a piece of a broken off wooden chair leg following an argument on the basketball court--to a national audience, and as a CHAMPION Laker.

Cousins just needs to be associated with wins, and his BS will be celebrated. (Because as far as I know he's actually not afoul of the law and even his suspensions aren't Larry Sanders' type stuff. ... not yet, any way.

[FAH1223]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WizOfAwes/status/625367748076507138[/tweet]

[fishercob]

The rookie extension impact for 2016

In Washington, the rookie extension of Beal will be front and center. It is well known in NBA circles that the Wizards are lining up their books to make a run at DC native Kevin Durant next summer. Washington right now has roughly $27 million in cap space in 2016-17. The Wizards’ cap space could jump to $38 million when you factor in four players that have partial or non-guaranteed contracts. The above mentioned cap space does factor in the $14.2 million cap hold for Beal.

So what do the Wizards and Beal do in the next three months?

What we saw this past free agency is that wings are paid at a premium. Because Washington already tagged Wall as its “Designated Player”, the most years and money in an extension that the Wizards can offer Beal is four years with a maximum salary of $90.8 million. Bypassing the rookie extension could accomplish something for Washington and Beal. Similar to what San Antonio did with Kawhi Leonard, Washington could elect to keep Beal’s $14.2 million cap hold on the books and go into free agency with the maximum amount of cap space possible.

Signing a max free agent and core pieces would allow Washington to circle back to Beal and give him and his agent Mark Bartelstein the contract they would be looking for – five years at $117 million. Bartelstein and the Wizards will have to be on the same page when free agency begins, similar to what happened with Leonard and the Spurs. If not, expect teams to start circling the wagons looking to make Beal very wealthy.

I'm not worried. Maxing out Beal is an overpay. If you do so in conjunction with getting Durant, it's well worth it. If you strike out on KD and still max Beal out, it's far from ideal -- but given Beal's age, there will be a trade market for him if the Wizards were to choose that route at some point.

Hopefully this is a Kawhi type situation.

[Higga]

I don't think its fair to say Beal does nothing to help Wall, calling him a parasite. When Beal is healthy and on, teams have to respect his shot. That opens up the floor for Wall. Defenders can't sag off the SG to assist guarding Wall.

I'd love Cousins too, he'd be my #2 option after Durant, but I don't see how we can trade for him at this point. Wish he didn't sign that extension...

[AFM]

dmc and wall alpha personalities ===that emotional and basketball passion transform a team into a title contender. Separated their weak, combine them and they are like an old transformer cartoon character. Devastator.
almost like klay and steph.
unselfish basketball players that play with passion are what make wall and dmc soul mate basketball players.
Klay and steph...splash brothers because they have been training that quick release three pointer are their lives.

dmc and wall have been playing with passion all their lives so they read each others passion as if it is a second language. what would drives them to greatness. so powerful that it would defeat even the great splash brother dynamic.
wall and dmc are skilled but not the most skilled at their positions. they both have the most passion for the game at their respective positions and when you put those two energies together over time, something magical happens. Kind of like Magic and Kareem.
sums is greater than separate parts.
Beal and wall dynamic is more of a parasite host relationship. Beal makes people pay for doubling wall...but beal can't return the energy. If you treat both of these parts as if they are equal, then team dynamic is destroyed.
If beal had a post game that he could go to that wasn't reliant on wall breaking down a defense like klay thompson does, then the two could be consider equals.

[EyePlay2Win]

Beal is not a parasite to Wall. He eases Wall's burden. Wall doesn't have to "chuck" or "volume score" as the team's best player because Beal is an excellent shooter/good scorer. This allows Wall to concentrate in setting tempo/pace and running the offense. They both are good man defenders so that is not a Beal weakness either. They both block shots during the transition break so one doesn't have to worry about getting back because the other is weak in that area. Wall is free to penetrate knowing Beal can defend the break. Beal can shoot long 3's and follow his rebound knowing Wall will get back on defense to defend the rim.

They both play off each other. #bestbackcourt(potentially)

[Illmatic12]

If you look at the last two postseasons (especially in 2014) Beal was the one who looked like the alpha, and Wall was the parasite. In that Pacers series John was afraid to shoot the damn ball, meanwhile his backcourt mate had been going h2h vs Paul George and Jimmy Butler. So from what I've seen.. both players have at various times shown that they are capable/willing to put the team on their back. A 'parasite' doesn't put up 34/7/6 in a playoff game vs the #1 seed, when his 'host' is sidelined with injury

Brad is just young and doesn't have experience doing it over the full regular season. His first few years he was deferring to the vets like Nene, Pierce who had seniority. In a few years as Beal becomes one of the elite SGs in the league, no one will be talking about him being a 'parasite'..

[queridiculo]

5 years $117 million? If that's what it's going to take to extend Beal I'd have no problem passing on a deal to explore trade opportunities.

[nate33]

5 years $117 million? If that's what it's going to take to extend Beal I'd have no problem passing on a deal to explore trade opportunities.

Agreed.

And my guess is that EG agrees with you. There is no reason to give a max extension right now if he isn't going to give management a financial incentive to do so.

I'd be willing to extend him to a Wesley Matthews level contract (starting at $16M or so with 7.5% raises), but if he wants more, he's going to have to wait until next summer.

My guess is that he is going to wait until next summer, at which point someone will offer him a max contract and we will match. And that's fine with me - as long as we get to take a shot at Durant first.

[doclinkin]

5 years $117 million? If that's what it's going to take to extend Beal I'd have no problem passing on a deal to explore trade opportunities.

Agreed.

And my guess is that EG agrees with you. There is no reason to give a max extension right now if he isn't going to give management a financial incentive to do so.

I'd be willing to extend him to a Wesley Matthews level contract (starting at $16M or so with 7.5% raises), but if he wants more, he's going to have to wait until next summer.

My guess is that he is going to wait until next summer, at which point someone will offer him a max contract and we will match. And that's fine with me - as long as we get to take a shot at Durant first.

The idea that occurred to me is that Beal could be part of double sign and trade with OKC to reuinte him with his college coach and ensure OKC they get compensation for letting Durant go. Ernie I'm sure would happily lard the deal with draft picks.

The fear being then a health related #SoWizards thing happens with KD while Beal earns every penny of the contract.

Talk me out of this vision, anyone.

[nate33]

5 years $117 million? If that's what it's going to take to extend Beal I'd have no problem passing on a deal to explore trade opportunities.

Agreed.

And my guess is that EG agrees with you. There is no reason to give a max extension right now if he isn't going to give management a financial incentive to do so.

I'd be willing to extend him to a Wesley Matthews level contract (starting at $16M or so with 7.5% raises), but if he wants more, he's going to have to wait until next summer.

My guess is that he is going to wait until next summer, at which point someone will offer him a max contract and we will match. And that's fine with me - as long as we get to take a shot at Durant first.

The idea that occurred to me is that Beal could be part of double sign and trade with OKC to reuinte him with his college coach and ensure OKC they get compensation for letting Durant go. Ernie I'm sure would happily lard the deal with draft picks.

The fear being then a health related #SoWizards thing happens with KD while Beal earns every penny of the contract.

Talk me out of this vision, anyone.

I really don't think a S&T for Durant is in the cards. Presumably, Durant's reason to come to Washington would be to win (in a weaker conference) while also getting to play close to home. Losing Beal would make Durant's goal of a championship much harder. Neither Durant nor the Wizards have any incentive to move Beal in the trade.

[Dat2U]

5 years $117 million? If that's what it's going to take to extend Beal I'd have no problem passing on a deal to explore trade opportunities.

Beal & Gortat for Cousins anyone? At those prices for Beal, I'd make Cousins my #1 target. If Beal/Gortat gets us in the discussion for Cousins we should be all over that!

Cousins, Durant & Wall sounds like a frighteningly good team that might wing a few rings. I can't see how getting Cousins doesn't help us in getting Durant. And if my 5th grade math is correct, we'd likely gain some additional cap room to enter the off-season with (since Beal's cap hold & Gortat's salary is replaced with just Cousins salary & a minimum salary cap hold.

[nate33]

5 years $117 million? If that's what it's going to take to extend Beal I'd have no problem passing on a deal to explore trade opportunities.

Beal & Gortat for Cousins anyone? At those prices for Beal, I'd make Cousins my #1 target. If Beal/Gortat gets us in the discussion for Cousins we should be all over that!

Cousins, Durant & Wall sounds like a frighteningly good team that might wing a few rings. I can't see how getting Cousins doesn't help us in getting Durant. And if my 5th grade math is correct, we'd likely gain some additional cap room to enter the off-season with (since Beal's cap hold & Gortat's salary is replaced with just Cousins salary & a minimum salary cap hold.

Yes Beal + Gortat for Cousins is a no-brainer trade I'd make a hundred times over. It's debatable how much it would help us in the short term, but the long term talent advantage of Cousins over Beal is huge, and the cap savings is even better.

With Cousins replacing Beal + Gortat, we would have enough room for Durant plus ANOTHER $15M or so in additional cap room.

Hell, we could use that money to go after Bradley Beal in free agency.

[fishercob]

5 years $117 million? If that's what it's going to take to extend Beal I'd have no problem passing on a deal to explore trade opportunities.

Beal & Gortat for Cousins anyone? At those prices for Beal, I'd make Cousins my #1 target. If Beal/Gortat gets us in the discussion for Cousins we should be all over that!

Cousins, Durant & Wall sounds like a frighteningly good team that might wing a few rings. I can't see how getting Cousins doesn't help us in getting Durant. And if my 5th grade math is correct, we'd likely gain some additional cap room to enter the off-season with (since Beal's cap hold & Gortat's salary is replaced with just Cousins salary & a minimum salary cap hold.

I'd make that deal. The Wizards would have a shooting guard problem -- a rotation of Anderson, Neal, Temple and maybe Webster -- but you could live with it for a year.

I don't think Sacramento would do the deal, though. My guess is they underrate Gortat. Plus, they'd likely need to have a deal in place for Ben McLemore and I think they'd go out to the trade market and realize there isn't much demand for his services.

[Dat2U]

5 years $117 million? If that's what it's going to take to extend Beal I'd have no problem passing on a deal to explore trade opportunities.

Beal & Gortat for Cousins anyone? At those prices for Beal, I'd make Cousins my #1 target. If Beal/Gortat gets us in the discussion for Cousins we should be all over that!

Cousins, Durant & Wall sounds like a frighteningly good team that might wing a few rings. I can't see how getting Cousins doesn't help us in getting Durant. And if my 5th grade math is correct, we'd likely gain some additional cap room to enter the off-season with (since Beal's cap hold & Gortat's salary is replaced with just Cousins salary & a minimum salary cap hold.

I'd make that deal. The Wizards would have a shooting guard problem -- a rotation of Anderson, Neal, Temple and maybe Webster -- but you could live with it for a year.

I don't think Sacramento would do the deal, though. My guess is they underrate Gortat. Plus, they'd likely need to have a deal in place for Ben McLemore and I think they'd go out to the trade market and realize there isn't much demand for his services.

I know Sac isn't sold on McLemore, especially considering they were throwing gobs of money at Matthews & Ellis. They just couldn't get them to bite. They'd likely see Beal as a huge upgrade. I'd go as far as the right to Satoransky and a future 1st rounder to get a deal done. We do sacrifice a bit this season, but next year, we'd have Wall, Cousins, Porter, Oubre and a ton of cap room. That's a great starting point to do something really special long term.

But alas, Ernie isn't the type to take risks and trade core talent. Unless Ted says paying Beal that much is untenable, he's probably getting a max deal from us.