Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

[Frichuela]

The one thing that gives me a glimmer of hope is that the Wizards front office is typically very tight-lipped. The fact that every reporter is out there touting the Wizards' interest in Sabonis and Grant might be a smokescreen.

Nobody predicted the Gafford trade until it happened, and even the Westbrook trade was rather surprising given the fact that Westbrook himself has been pushing it for a while before it happened.

I mean, in the unexpected scenario that they finally decide to trade Beal, and given reports PHI is looking to offload Tobias Harris, what of the following 3-team trade scenario (works in the trade checker):

WAS trades Beal, Dinwiddie, Rui and Bertans and get Simmons, Sabonis + fodder (Warren, Lamb)
PHI trades Simmons + Harris and gets Beal, Dinwiddie and Bertans
IND trades Sabonis + fodder (Warren, Lamb) and gets Harris+Rui

For IND to have extra incentive for the trade, I'd package whatever draft compensation we can get by trading Bryant and Harrell to the highest bidder.

WAS roster for next season:

Simmons/Vet PG
KCP/Vet SG
Deni/Kispert
Kuzma/Vet PF
Sabonis/Gafford

A Simmons/Deni/Kuzma/Sabonis core surrendered by shooters (KCP, Kispert) could work.

The point of going after Sabonis is that he would be an ideal big man to pair with Beal. I don't think Sabonis makes a lot of sense in the context of a Simmons trade.

If we acquire Simmons, we need to be an up-tempo team that spreads the floor on offense and switches everything on defense. Sabonis does not fit into that type of system. Sabonis is a slow-it-down half-court guy.

Also, Indy isn't trading Sabonis for Harris and Rui. Pacer fans everywhere are vomiting right now.

Most probably

Seriously, yes, I see your point. It's just that I think Sabonis fits great with Wes Jr as a poor man's Jokic...but I hear you about the Simmons/Sabonis ill fit.

So, simpler version of the trade:

WAS trades Beal, Dinwiddie and Bertans and get Simmons and Harris.

In this scenario, we keep Bryant as a stretch 5 but trade Harrell for whatever we can get. Roster going forward:

Simmons/Vet PG
KCP/Kispert
Harris/Deni
Kuzma/Rui
Bryant/Gafford

I guess the idea would be to feature, particularly in the clutch, a line-up without a pure center. And go: Simmons/KCP/Harris/Kuzma/Deni (or Rui).

[FAH1223]

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[80sballboy]

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[keynote]

If Simmons doesn't mesh well with Embiid in the half court, he certainly won't mesh with Sabonis, who has a worse outside J than Embiid.

I still want Simmons to play point 5. That would mean using Gafford as a supersub and trading Bryant and Trezz for future assets/young backcourt help. It should be easier to find one or two Desmond Bane/young Avery Bradley-type 3-and-D guards to defend PGs than it is to find a true playmaking, defensive-minded PG with a jumper.

[80sballboy]

If Simmons doesn't mesh well with Embiid in the half court, he certainly won't mesh with Sabonis, who has a worse outside J than Embiid.

I still want Simmons to play point 5. That would mean using Gafford as a supersub and trading Bryant and Trezz for future assets/young backcourt help. It should be easier to find one or two Desmond Bane/young Avery Bradley-type 3-and-D guards to defend PGs than it is to find a true playmaking, defensive-minded PG with a jumper.

I 100% agree that Simmons should be a point forward or center and is not a true point guard. He can defend 1 through 5, but I'd like to see another quicker and athletic point guard who can shoot with him. Obviously, if they trade for him, they need to surround him with shooters and well, Sabonis is 32% from 3pt this season. Of course, Tommy would do cartwheels to get a 25-year old former Gonzaga star.

[80sballboy]

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[GutUNC]

If Simmons doesn't mesh well with Embiid in the half court, he certainly won't mesh with Sabonis, who has a worse outside J than Embiid.

I still want Simmons to play point 5. That would mean using Gafford as a supersub and trading Bryant and Trezz for future assets/young backcourt help. It should be easier to find one or two Desmond Bane/young Avery Bradley-type 3-and-D guards to defend PGs than it is to find a true playmaking, defensive-minded PG with a jumper.

I 100% agree that Simmons should be a point forward or center and is not a true point guard. He can defend 1 through 5, but I'd like to see another quicker and athletic point guard who can shoot with him. Obviously, if they trade for him, they need to surround him with shooters and well, Sabonis is 32% from 3pt this season. Of course, Tommy would do cartwheels to get a 25-year old former Gonzaga star.

You don't want Simmons at the 5. It's the one spot he isn't a plus plus defender and your rebounding craters.

[nate33]

It should be easier to find one or two Desmond Bane/young Avery Bradley-type 3-and-D guards to defend PGs than it is to find a true playmaking, defensive-minded PG with a jumper.

Aaron Holiday can sort of fill that role right now.

My vision is more of a 5-forward lineup where everyone on the court can guard 1 through 5 and we switch everything. Simmons, Avdija, Kuzma and Hachimura share the court together, with the 5th guy most likely being a shooter like Bertans, Kispert or KCP. Keep Holiday around if you really need an on-ball defender at PG, and keep Gafford when you need a true big against a guy like Embiid or Valanciunas.

[pcbothwel]

Agreed. Ben is a Forward that needs to play with a stretch 5 (Bryant/Turner) and guard that can score/create in the half court.

Beal and Simmons would actually play well together.

[JAR69]

Teeth will be gnashed between now and the trade deadline.

The idea of "adding a piece" by trading young assets or picks to try to keep Beal is borderline insane. The only way it isn't is if Beal has or will agree to get paid what he's worth, not a supermax. Sure - if you can add Sabonis cheaply, you do it. But that's deeply unrealistic - other teams will outbid us.

I'd be happier with standing pat and just letting Beal go at the end of the year. I used to think that was the worst possible outcome. Now it is clear that a supermax or ruining a rebuild in an attempt to keep him would be worse.

This franchise.

[80sballboy]

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[keynote]

It should be easier to find one or two Desmond Bane/young Avery Bradley-type 3-and-D guards to defend PGs than it is to find a true playmaking, defensive-minded PG with a jumper.

Aaron Holiday can sort of fill that role right now.

My vision is more of a 5-forward lineup where everyone on the court can guard 1 through 5 and we switch everything. Simmons, Avdija, Kuzma and Hachimura share the court together, with the 5th guy most likely being a shooter like Bertans, Kispert or KCP. Keep Holiday around if you really need an on-ball defender at PG, and keep Gafford when you need a true big against a guy like Embiid or Valanciunas.

Perhaps. But I figure it's harder to find rangy, 6'7"+ switchable defenders who can hit 3s than it is to find 6'2"-6'3" shooters who can defend PGs. Having a point 4/5 unlocks the ability to play the easier-to-find Holiday-type. In contrast, everybody else with a traditional PG needs a roster full of Mikal Bridgeses.

If Rui's 3 point shot is legit, and if Advija can take a leap, then maybe we can make your plan work.

[nate33]

Teeth will be gnashed between now and the trade deadline.

The idea of "adding a piece" by trading young assets or picks to try to keep Beal is borderline insane. The only way it isn't is if Beal has or will agree to get paid what he's worth, not a supermax. Sure - if you can add Sabonis cheaply, you do it. But that's deeply unrealistic - other teams will outbid us.

I'd be happier with standing pat and just letting Beal go at the end of the year. I used to think that was the worst possible outcome. Now it is clear that a supermax or ruining a rebuild in an attempt to keep him would be worse.

This franchise.

Agreed. I'm bracing for disaster.

If we trade Deni, Kuzma and future firsts for a guy like Sabonis, and then max out Beal, we will still be a 40-ish win team over the next two years. Sabonis will then depart via free agency in 2024, Beal will be an overpaid albatross, and the picks we need to rebuild will be depleted.

Basically, the only young pick/prospect I'm willing to trade for a vet is Hachimura, since he is redundant with Kuzma. If we can get Sabonis for Rui plus vets like Kuzma, KCP and Harrell, then that might be okay. But if we involve Avdija, future picks, or Kispert, it'll be a disaster.

And I want no part of Jerami Grant at all. Is he even better than Kuzma? I'd trade Rui and Bertans for him, but that's about it.

[JAR69]

Teeth will be gnashed between now and the trade deadline.

The idea of "adding a piece" by trading young assets or picks to try to keep Beal is borderline insane. The only way it isn't is if Beal has or will agree to get paid what he's worth, not a supermax. Sure - if you can add Sabonis cheaply, you do it. But that's deeply unrealistic - other teams will outbid us.

I'd be happier with standing pat and just letting Beal go at the end of the year. I used to think that was the worst possible outcome. Now it is clear that a supermax or ruining a rebuild in an attempt to keep him would be worse.

This franchise.

Agreed. I'm bracing for disaster.

If we trade Deni, Kuzma and future firsts for a guy like Sabonis, and then max out Beal, we will still be a 40-ish win team over the next two years. Sabonis will then depart via free agency in 2024, Beal will be an overpaid albatross, and the picks we need to rebuild will be depleted.

Basically, the only young pick/prospect I'm willing to trade for a vet is Hachimura. If we can get Sabonis for Rui plus vets like Kuzma, KCP and Harrell, then that might be okay. But if we involve Avdija, future picks, or Kispert, it'll be a disaster.

And I want no part of Jerami Grant at all. Is he even better than Kuzma? I'd trade Rui and Bertans for him, but that's about it.

Agree 100%. It isn't even that terrible if we just let Beal expire. We have about $70 million guaranteed for next year (Dinwiddie, Bertans, Kuzma, Hachimura, Avjida, Kispert, Gafford, Todd, and KCP's $5 milion guarantee). That's dreck, but a top ten pick plus a few cheap free agents will get you 30 wins. Use the space to acquire picks. Or sign one or two younger, upside free agents. Just give us hope, some change to dream.

[Arsenal]

If Simmons doesn't mesh well with Embiid in the half court, he certainly won't mesh with Sabonis, who has a worse outside J than Embiid.

I still want Simmons to play point 5. That would mean using Gafford as a supersub and trading Bryant and Trezz for future assets/young backcourt help. It should be easier to find one or two Desmond Bane/young Avery Bradley-type 3-and-D guards to defend PGs than it is to find a true playmaking, defensive-minded PG with a jumper.

I 100% agree that Simmons should be a point forward or center and is not a true point guard. He can defend 1 through 5, but I'd like to see another quicker and athletic point guard who can shoot with him. Obviously, if they trade for him, they need to surround him with shooters and well, Sabonis is 32% from 3pt this season. Of course, Tommy would do cartwheels to get a 25-year old former Gonzaga star.

You don't want Simmons at the 5. It's the one spot he isn't a plus plus defender and your rebounding craters.

This. Simmons makes the most sense as a 4 on D.

A center who can shoot like Thomas Bryant is the best fit w/him.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

If we trade Beal, we might as well keep Dinwiddie to command the tank. I can't see us using a pick to dump him or even just outright dumping him for nothing.

I see what you did there, wrong thread/team

[doclinkin]

I'm bracing for disaster.

If we trade Deni, Kuzma and future firsts for a guy like Sabonis,

It's Indianapolis. They would want Deni and Kispert most. Carlisle likes scrappy defenders, no doubt he's coveting Avdija. And all things being equal, a team like Indiana (and Utah) like to get as pale complected a team as they can manage while staying competitive. Anything else is salary filler and future considerations.

[nate33]

I'm bracing for disaster.

If we trade Deni, Kuzma and future firsts for a guy like Sabonis,

It's Indianapolis. They would want Deni and Kispert most. Carlisle likes scrappy defenders, no doubt he's coveting Avdija. And all things being equal, a team like Indiana (and Utah) like to get as pale complected a team as they can manage while staying competitive. Anything else is salary filler and future considerations.

That argument may apply to Utah, but I don't think it does for Indy. They only have 3 white guys on the roster: McConnell, Sabonis and Bitadze. And two of them are centers, a position where white guys are fairly common.

I agree that they'd want Deni and Kispert the most. But it's because they're better players/prospects than Rui, not because they are white.

[closg00]

[closg00]

Reading the Wizards section you get a sense of Ernie Grunfeld deja-vu
https://hoopshype.com/team/washington-wizards/