Official Trade Thread Part XLVI

[dckingsfan]

And now they're stuck with Beal so it's all good.

Yep, with one move we took a team out of the running when we will be relevant in '29. Awesome contract (given how it turned out). If we could just do that 28 more times

[gambitx777]

...and beal the agents and the suns **** us one more time lol.

Just one more once...

a. Beal didn't do anything wrong to us. This is a business. It was his JOB to get himself the best contract he was able to get.
b. Beal's agent didn't do anything wrong to us. This is a business. They represent Brad's interests. It's their job to max out his benefit.
c. The Suns didn't do anything wrong to us. They made an offer. No doubt there was some back & forth, & in the end we took the best offer we could get for Bradley Beal, because -- after all -- this is a business.

We gave Brad an absolutely idiotic contract -- that's where the problem was. There & nowhere else.

You will have to pry this tin foil hat of my cold dead corps cuz I will never not believe they **** us.
(I am some percentage of joking lol, maybe like 40/60) Lol .

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[Benjammin]

I am so tired of reading the Lakers are going to trade for JV using Gabe Vincent (a negative asset) and a single second round pick. If the Wizards do something like that it would be idiotic. At least get a Rui sized barrel full of second round picks.

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[doclinkin]

...Im still pissed about Tyus Jones. Guy is a near 60 TS PG with 7:1 AST:TOV ratio, and we got NOTHING for him.

Tyus signed a 1 year deal for $3 million with the Suns. There was no trade market for him.

Thank you for making this point. I wonder how long we'll have to read these kinds of comments about Jones.

No one wanted Tyus Jones. No one. He signed for the vet minimum.



Why was that? I don't know, & it makes no sense to me. But that's the way it was. Hence, there's nothing whatever to "still" -- or EVER be pissed about.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/42091791/the-quiet-free-agent-signing-unlock-kd-booker-suns-big-3

In any other year, Jones would've been paid handsomely as the top point guard on the free agent market with a reputation as a mature leader. And indeed, Jones did weigh more lucrative interest from the Wizards, Detroit Pistons, San Antonio Spurs and Brooklyn Nets, league sources said, with offers ranging from $8 million to $12 million annually.

Reports said we had sign and trades lined up, with some of the above teams bidding against each other. He chose instead to go to PHX, signed for a cheap one year deal but a likely starting job. He bet on himself that he can earn more next year coming off a year as the starting PG on a playoff bound team. Nothing we can do if he turns down more money for a better situation.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

And now they're stuck with Beal so it's all good.

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His first four years, he missed 81 games, the equivalent of a full regular season. (20 a season). His last four Wizards seasons, Beal missed 25, 22, 42, and 32 games. (Almost 32 a game) Then he hit 30 years of age.

Phoenix really did the Wizards a favor taking that albatross contract away.

Teams make stupid decisions. I think the Commanders were stupid to sign Lattimore. Too many games unavailable.

[gambitx777]

Schroeder and a second
For
Melton and 3 seconds.

Interesting.
That sort of sets the market as trade season begins.

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[AFM]

I feel like I haven’t watched Schroeder play in years. He basically got 2 extra seconds? How much better is he than Kuzma?

[trast66]

I feel like I haven’t watched Schroeder play in years. He basically got 2 extra seconds? How much better is he than Kuzma?

Prior to this season they seem comparable, Kuzma probably an edge. This season though has been one of Schroeders better seasons and Kuzmas worst. And Kuz has 2 years after this season on contract and Schroeder expiring.

Sacramento probably desperate enough to send 2 2nds and Kuz a better fit for Sac than GS. I think our only hope for a first is if GM LeBron is interested.

Agree that trade is an indicator of how Kuz may be valued.

[Hidden Eye]

Kuzma has to get traded

His body language has been bad, came in to training camp not in shape. As a LEADER you have to set the standard.

He isn't playing like he has motivation to do anything on court except shoot airballs and play soft. He added nothing new to this game except huff and puff and get tired playing for 3 minutes.

I'd keep the 3 vets for sure.

You can't overturn 8-10 players for the next 3-4 years and think its gonna pan out. That's a very hard task to do.

Doesn't matter if you did/didn't draft the player all matter is where they fit with the 3-4 year window and a lot of players on roster today fit it.

[dckingsfan]

Kuzma has to get traded

His body language has been bad, came in to training camp not in shape. As a LEADER you have to set the standard.

He isn't playing like he has motivation to do anything on court except shoot airballs and play soft. He added nothing new to this game except huff and puff and get tired playing for 3 minutes.

I'd keep the 3 vets for sure.

You can't overturn 8-10 players for the next 3-4 years and think its gonna pan out. That's a very hard task to do.

Doesn't matter if you did/didn't draft the player all matter is where they fit with the 3-4 year window and a lot of players on roster today fit it.

Yeah, he does seem to have checked out and you are right, that doesn't set a good standard for the younger guys. I think the problem is the disconnect on his value - right now at best SRP(s).

I would say that Brogdon also, but in a different way - he has only played in 9 games this season. I think he wants to stay healthy for that move to another team. His value is that he is an expiring contract AND he could possibly help a contender.

I don't think teams see that with Kuz right now.

As for our other expiring contracts of Bagley and Holmes (250K for next season), they also don't have much value beyond their expiring contract status.

I still think it will be "difficult" to move them this year - but this FO seems pretty good at getting deals done. See below, it makes it difficult to "aggregate Bagley and Holmes for example.

2nd apron teams:
Those four squads aren’t allowed to execute trades where they take in more money than they give out. They can’t “aggregate” players in deals, pairing more than one player together in the same trade. They can’t use trade exceptions and can’t send out cash. They can’t sign players who previously made more than the midlevel exception on the buyout market.

1st apron teams:
Fifteen more teams are hard-capped at the first apron, a $178.1 million threshold for this season, with fewer but still constricting restrictions. Teams above the first apron cannot take in more money than they send out in trades and cannot use the full midlevel exception ($12.8 million).

On the edge:
On the other side are teams that won’t want to take on money because they are too close to the tax and under no circumstances could justify going into it. The Brooklyn Nets, Atlanta Hawks, Indiana Pacers and Memphis Grizzlies are all within $2 million of the tax. That’s less than a veteran’s minimum contract. The Sacramento Kings are $2.1 million short of the tax line. The Portland Trail Blazers are $3.7 million away, and the Chicago Bulls are $4.5 million away. Technically, those teams are allowed to add money. But realistically, it’s not happening, which will affect the rest of the league.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5992089/2024/12/13/nba-trade-season-knicks-lakers-nets/

[AFM]

Just trade him for whatever. If he's not a real asset then to quote the incoming president, it is what it is. Management gambled that his trade value would be higher this year than last. Then he came in out of shape and has played worse than usual. His value is now lower, even with the descending contract. To me its obvious the young guys look better when Kuz isn't playing. I don't mind them playing with Poole, by all accounts he's a hell of a hard worker. But Kuzma apparently didn't work at all this offseason. Time to cut ties.

[pcbothwel]

Just trade him for whatever. If he's not a real asset then to quote the incoming president, it is what it is. Management gambled that his trade value would be higher this year than last. Then he came in out of shape and has played worse than usual. His value is now lower, even with the descending contract. To me its obvious the young guys look better when Kuz isn't playing. I don't mind them playing with Poole, by all accounts he's a hell of a hard worker. But Kuzma apparently didn't work at all this offseason. Time to cut ties.

Multiple times over the last 2 years, Kuz went on 15-25 game stretches of producing 25 / 7 / 4 on a TS of ~58 as the number 1 option.
Im willing to bet on that happening again and a team believing he can thrive as a 4th option in a clear hierarchy.
Personally, I dont mind Kuz on this team. Great Tank commander, and I like his archetype with Bilal & George. Kuz isnt the biggest/fastest/strongest/most skilled, but he is skilled and physical. Like Deni, I want Bilal & George to learn from Kuz on how to attack the basket.

[pcbothwel]

Another trade topic is what to do with the $12.5M TPE that expires in February. To me, this TPE will/should be used in conjunction with a Brogdon/JV/Kuz trade to extract more assets. My top candidates right now making between 10-11.5M are:
PJ Tucker/Terrance Mann, Divincenzo, Maxi Kleber, and Gabe Vincent/Vanderbilt.
The two LA teams NEED to make a move as their window is closing FAST.

Examples:
LAL: is 17M over the tax (Paying 53M in penalties). A JV, Brogdon, Gill for Vanderbilt, DLo, Vincent, and JHS trade would improve their team and save them ~40M!!! ... What is that worth to them?

LAC: Talent doesnt match up, but a PJ Tucker/Cam Cristie for Gill + TPE trade saves them 10M and gets them under the tax. Not sure how much that means to them though.

PHO: JV, TPE + Filler for Nurkic + Okogie saves the Suns 50M!!!

GSW: JV + Gill for GP2 + Looney/SloMo saves GSW 15M, while also getting them out of the repeater tax (BIG)

TWolves: I'd love to work something here with Randle, Divencenzo, and Kuzma (I think Kuz is a great fit for them), but hard to see how it would all play out.

[AFM]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5967281/2024/12/17/nba-trade-board-jimmy-butler-zach-lavine-cam-johnson/


Athletic has an article on all the top trade candidates and their projected value

Val and Brogdon both expected to get second(s) but here’s their take on kuzma:

The Wizards might end up regretting not trading Kuzma at last year's deadline or in the offseason. His numbers are down across the board. Last year, he averaged 22.2 points per game. This year, he's at just 15.8. His rebounding is down, and his assists have been cut in half. Defensively, there hasn't been much worth getting excited about. And he's shooting just 42 percent from the field and 28 percent from 3 on much lower 3-point volume. There may not be a player in the league who has seen such a substantial downgrade in his performance this season.

Could another team potentially sell itself on Kuzma returning to form once he gets out of the Wizards' situation? Maybe. Kuzma's contract was seen as a bargain for his production this time last year. He makes $23.5 million this year on a descending deal that will only see him make $19.4 million in 2026-27 after the salary cap has jumped multiple times. He's dealt with a rib injury throughout the early portion of the season, so the first goal should be to recover from that. I think he'd have to start playing better, though, for him to become a real trade target.

[pcbothwel]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5967281/2024/12/17/nba-trade-board-jimmy-butler-zach-lavine-cam-johnson/


Athletic has an article on all the top trade candidates and their projected value

Val and Brogdon both expected to get second(s) but here’s their take on kuzma:

The Wizards might end up regretting not trading Kuzma at last year's deadline or in the offseason. His numbers are down across the board. Last year, he averaged 22.2 points per game. This year, he's at just 15.8. His rebounding is down, and his assists have been cut in half. Defensively, there hasn't been much worth getting excited about. And he's shooting just 42 percent from the field and 28 percent from 3 on much lower 3-point volume. There may not be a player in the league who has seen such a substantial downgrade in his performance this season.

Could another team potentially sell itself on Kuzma returning to form once he gets out of the Wizards' situation? Maybe. Kuzma's contract was seen as a bargain for his production this time last year. He makes $23.5 million this year on a descending deal that will only see him make $19.4 million in 2026-27 after the salary cap has jumped multiple times. He's dealt with a rib injury throughout the early portion of the season, so the first goal should be to recover from that. I think he'd have to start playing better, though, for him to become a real trade target.

Could not care less about their take on Kuz this season... For god sake, he has played in 12 games this season. Extrapolating that into him being "Up" or "Down" compared to other seasons is nonsensical.
Lets talk through this.
- Kuz came into the year and clearly not in great shape.
- He played poorly the 1st 2 games of the year and then he put up 25/11/7 as part of a win over ATL.
- Then, he hurt his groin in practice and missed 5 games.
- He came back chucking for a few games and clearly not in shape/healthy...obviously.
- He then seemed to settle back into his rough career norms for a few games
- Then he hurt his ribs and has been out for the last 3 weeks.

Point being, whatever skillset/value was put on Kuzma before this year should not be changed because a small sample size of games, being in & out of the lineup.
"Oh look, a player in his prime is shooting 28% on 58 3PA this year...this is definitely concerning and hurts his value. Nevermind the consistent 34% on nearly 1,700 3PA's in his previous 4 years"

[AFM]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5967281/2024/12/17/nba-trade-board-jimmy-butler-zach-lavine-cam-johnson/


Athletic has an article on all the top trade candidates and their projected value

Val and Brogdon both expected to get second(s) but here’s their take on kuzma:

The Wizards might end up regretting not trading Kuzma at last year's deadline or in the offseason. His numbers are down across the board. Last year, he averaged 22.2 points per game. This year, he's at just 15.8. His rebounding is down, and his assists have been cut in half. Defensively, there hasn't been much worth getting excited about. And he's shooting just 42 percent from the field and 28 percent from 3 on much lower 3-point volume. There may not be a player in the league who has seen such a substantial downgrade in his performance this season.

Could another team potentially sell itself on Kuzma returning to form once he gets out of the Wizards' situation? Maybe. Kuzma's contract was seen as a bargain for his production this time last year. He makes $23.5 million this year on a descending deal that will only see him make $19.4 million in 2026-27 after the salary cap has jumped multiple times. He's dealt with a rib injury throughout the early portion of the season, so the first goal should be to recover from that. I think he'd have to start playing better, though, for him to become a real trade target.

Could not care less about their take on Kuz this season... For god sake, he has played in 12 games this season. Extrapolating that into him being "Up" or "Down" compared to other seasons is nonsensical.
Lets talk through this.
- Kuz came into the year and clearly not in great shape.
- He played poorly the 1st 2 games of the year and then he put up 25/11/7 as part of a win over ATL.
- Then, he hurt his groin in practice and missed 5 games.
- He came back chucking for a few games and clearly not in shape/healthy...obviously.
- He then seemed to settle back into his rough career norms for a few games
- Then he hurt his ribs and has been out for the last 3 weeks.

Point being, whatever skillset/value was put on Kuzma before this year should not be changed because a small sample size of games, being in & out of the lineup.
"Oh look, a player in his prime is shooting 28% on 58 3PA this year...this is definitely concerning and hurts his value. Nevermind the consistent 34% on nearly 1,700 3PA's in his previous 4 years"

That works both ways. What about when fans say we should play Kuz or whoever minutes to showcase him?

[The Consiglieri]

...and beal the agents and the suns **** us one more time lol.

Just one more once...

a. Beal didn't do anything wrong to us. This is a business. It was his JOB to get himself the best contract he was able to get.
b. Beal's agent didn't do anything wrong to us. This is a business. They represent Brad's interests. It's their job to max out his benefit.
c. The Suns didn't do anything wrong to us. They made an offer. No doubt there was some back & forth, & in the end we took the best offer we could get for Bradley Beal, because -- after all -- this is a business.

We gave Brad an absolutely idiotic contract -- that's where the problem was. There & nowhere else.

Nah, there was more to it then that:
#1: He should have been traded the instant Wall went down getting out of the shower because after that injury Wall's potential and the team's hope going forward was completely extinguished. At the time I could forgive a GM spending some time figuring out whether to trade Beal during the '18-'19 deadline, or wait it out into summer '19 or 2020, one could debate when he should've been traded post-Wall's career killing injury, but make no mistake, HE HAD TO BE TRADED.

#2 Idiot ownership and idiot GM bought the idiotic nonsense that Beal and his people spouted about being happy here, as did about 90% of this board at the time, or maybe I'm being mean in saying that, perhaps it was only 70% of this board, but way too many DC fans ate that bull---- up, hook, line, sinker, just gold fish. It was shocking at the time, but thread upon thread was just loaded, loaded, loaded with people saying, "Until Beal says he wants out, we have to go by what him and ownership have said about him being happy here". I could not believe for the life of me, after everything DC sports fans have dealt with in general for decades, and with NBA players in particular (who are absolutely notorious for breaking promises left and right) how many here bought the obvious bull---- lies he and his agent were peddling, but a ton of the fan base did, and as a result, they collectively (Beal+FA+Fan Base) drove his trade value to zero and then -273.15 for the science dorks out there.

#3 It's absolutely wrong to shove all blame off Beal on this. He lied through his teeth to the fans, and to ownership the entire time. Should the FO and the fans have been more cunning, and less bumbling, naive, homers? Absolutely. But it doesn't make it any less cynical and revolting, and then after lying through his teeth, to then give back NOTHING, literally nothing, to help the organization rebuild from the Chicxulub sized crater left from the epic Wall/Beal ERA? Hell yeah that was epic scumbaggery.

I have no issues with the Suns btw, it's there job to try to run their organization well, and take advantage of moron organizations, run by idiot owners, and their hapless GM's, which is what the Suns were able to do based upon the incompetency of the prior management and current owner. It's not their fault, or ours, that our team has been owned by two absolute morons, and that our GM's over the past 44 years would probably rank at sub 5th percentile in competition with the rest of the GM's around the league between 1980-2023.

But Beal? Yeah, lying duplicitous scumbag? Absolutely.

Ownership/previous GM: Epic morons, utterly clueless rubes, or maybe, perhaps more likely, just dumb and not prioritizing winning, but rather purely ticket sales.

In fairness to Beal, I would put 95% of the blame on the FO and the owner, they are the idiots that basically made every wrong decision every single time there was an option between 2019-2023. They were complete morons and they are to blame. But I don't think that exculpates Beal, who took an insane home town contract, which is something winners around sports haven't always done, and then added to it by getting that NTC in there, and then to top it all off, once he had driven his value to that Kelvin temp of absolute zero, only then, at his least ever asset value, did he demand the trade.

So yeah. Absolutely 1000% ---- him. Complete scumbag.

But if you are going to play a professional game, well, you've got to be prepared for what he was always going to do, which is why he should have been traded in '19, '20 or '21 (I would have dealt him in '19, but I would have first checked in with my scouts to find out which class was the most attractive between '19 and '21, and targeted that class in the trade I made circa '19 or '20). Instead, we got left with ashes in our mouths, which is what happens when you tackle this bare-knuckled Front office/Agent game with the canniness and collective IQ of a common Sea Sponge.

[pcbothwel]

That works both ways. What about when fans say we should play Kuz or whoever minutes to showcase him?

Not sure what you mean. If is healthy, then he should play. The number of minutes comes down to his production, mindset/BBIQ, fitness, etc.
You hope that he gets in shape/healthy over the holidays, then puts together a strong January before the deadline (~20 games).
Brogdon and the TPE are the only assets that need to be moved.

[doclinkin]

Could not care less about their take on Kuz this season... For god sake, he has played in 12 games this season. Extrapolating that into him being "Up" or "Down" compared to other seasons is nonsensical.
Lets talk through this.
- Kuz came into the year and clearly not in great shape.
- He played poorly the 1st 2 games of the year and then he put up 25/11/7 as part of a win over ATL.
- Then, he hurt his groin in practice and missed 5 games.
- He came back chucking for a few games and clearly not in shape/healthy...obviously.
- He then seemed to settle back into his rough career norms for a few games
- Then he hurt his ribs and has been out for the last 3 weeks.

Point being, whatever skillset/value was put on Kuzma before this year should not be changed because a small sample size of games, being in & out of the lineup.

Except players who come into camp out of shape and get injured are the sort of players who stay injured. Collect nagging injuries. At age 29 he's on the far side of prime. The players who decline slowly after 30 are the ones who stay in phenomenal shape based on their work ethic and recovery power. Kuz has looked like he is on cruise control. Kinda mailing it in. He's 'Down' because he is not motivated and fired up, he knows the plan is to lose, so who cares? Reading your above summary is not the kind of resume of a player that teams want to trade for. The only thing you can sell them on is that in the past Kuz has tended to play with more energy on a team that expects to win. Maybe. He does have a championship in the COVID year. If he's on a better team maybe he's a better player.

[AFM]

My point is GMs aren't stupid and they know exactly who Kyle Kuzma is at this point. I never understood "showcasing" vets to pump their trade value. Even if he goes on a 20 game streak, GM's know exactly what that is.