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Political Roundtable Part XXV

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1561 » by dckingsfan » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:44 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Just to be clear... Bernie is saying that it is okay for hospitals to go chapter. Given the low margin's for hospitals, if your receivables drop by 40% or even half that - you are going to have to restructure.

Assume you are good with the government running our hospital systems?

FAH1223 wrote:
Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter


M4All isn't calling for nationalizing hospitals though. There are hospital monopolies and then there are hospitals few and far between as rural America has been devastated.

"Sanders and his allies may have sound, practical reasons for taking a soft (or at least, opaque) line on providers. Doctors and hospitals have powerful lobbies and enjoy much more public trust than private insurance companies or big pharma. Nurses unions and progressive physicians groups are important pillars of the single-payer movement, and some within their ranks might be alienated by calls for “soaking hospitals.” Further, as mentioned above, there’s the difficulty inherent to reducing costs in the hospitals and specialties that are overpaid, without reducing the supply of well-run rural hospitals and much-needed primary-care doctors."

Read on Twitter


There has to be a national rate setting.

That would possibly be the worst of all possible outcomes. Please remember what happened when Nixon and Carter put in price controls... it was ugly.

Venezuela did this recently with price controls on food - again, not a good ending.

And yes, Doctors, Nurses and hospitals should be concerned. Medicare pays 40% of what insurers pay. This will certainly bankrupt hospitals which will cause them to default on agreements with the nurses unions.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1562 » by FAH1223 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:50 pm

dckingsfan wrote:That would possibly be the worst of all possible outcomes. Please remember what happened when Nixon and Carter put in price controls... it was ugly.

Venezuela did this recently with price controls on food - again, not a good ending.

And yes, Doctors, Nurses and hospitals should be concerned. Medicare pays 40% of what insurers pay. This will certainly bankrupt hospitals which will cause them to default on agreements with the nurses unions.


You do know that Maryland has an All-Payer rate setting, right?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1563 » by dobrojim » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:11 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
dobrojim wrote:Again, getting rid of the EC doesn't require an amendment. The Constitution explicitly leaves it up to each state to decide how to assign Electors.

How does that remove the problem?


The EC would still exist but the result of it would always be that the popular
vote winner would get at least 270 EC votes.
Follow the link from a couple posts back.

in a nutshell, a state agrees that when enough other states also agree to award
their electors to the natl popular vote leader to reach 270 EC votes, they're all in.
It's still technically the EC but the method of awarding electors in states totaling
at least 270 electors is to give them all to the popular vote winner.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1564 » by dckingsfan » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:15 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:That would possibly be the worst of all possible outcomes. Please remember what happened when Nixon and Carter put in price controls... it was ugly.

Venezuela did this recently with price controls on food - again, not a good ending.

And yes, Doctors, Nurses and hospitals should be concerned. Medicare pays 40% of what insurers pay. This will certainly bankrupt hospitals which will cause them to default on agreements with the nurses unions.

You do know that Maryland has an All-Payer rate setting, right?

Okay? I am unsure if you are defending federal price controls? Have you done research on other federal price controls?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1565 » by closg00 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:59 pm

Enjoy this nugget
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1566 » by FAH1223 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:07 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Okay? I am unsure if you are defending federal price controls? Have you done research on other federal price controls?


One perennial issue with any government insurance program is choosing provider rates, and there is no one clear best answer. No matter how high the fees are, providers are always going to claim they aren’t high enough. For example, hospitals in America constantly claim to be losing money on Medicaid and Medicare patients despite all the economic evidence against cost shifting. Providers will try to scare the public with claims that low fees will result in a lack of appropriate care or rationing. These are actual potential concerns if rates are truly too low, but providers will claim they exist regardless, making it difficult to separate the noise from reality.


https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2019/04/22/hospitals-will-do-fine-under-medicare-for-all/
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1567 » by dckingsfan » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:13 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Okay? I am unsure if you are defending federal price controls? Have you done research on other federal price controls?


One perennial issue with any government insurance program is choosing provider rates, and there is no one clear best answer. No matter how high the fees are, providers are always going to claim they aren’t high enough. For example, hospitals in America constantly claim to be losing money on Medicaid and Medicare patients despite all the economic evidence against cost shifting. Providers will try to scare the public with claims that low fees will result in a lack of appropriate care or rationing. These are actual potential concerns if rates are truly too low, but providers will claim they exist regardless, making it difficult to separate the noise from reality.

https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2019/04/22/hospitals-will-do-fine-under-medicare-for-all/

Yeah, not exactly a compelling argument. Go no further than: “most hospitals would have access to the financial reserves that they have built up over the last decades”. That is the - yeah, they are going to hemorrhage money statement.

And they cite Canada. But Canada doesn't have the EHR overhead (put on by the federal government); Our patients in general are older and sicker than Canada's; our healthcare providers are more unionized; we have more litigation; and a host of other differences that make the assumption that the costs will come down to Canada levels a pipedream.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1568 » by Wizardspride » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:42 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=19



Read on Twitter
?s=19

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1569 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:40 am

GOP lawmaker quits party because of Trump's 'disregard for the truth'

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An Iowa state lawmaker has said he is leaving the Republican Party because of his loathing of President Trump.

Rep. Andy McKean, 69, the longest serving Republican currently in the Iowa legislature, announced Tuesday he would register as a Democrat after being registered as a Republican for almost 50 years.

“With the 2020 presidential election looming on the horizon, I feel, as a Republican, that I need to be able to support the standard bearer of our party. Unfortunately, that is something I’m unable to do..." he said in a statement.

McKean blamed Trump for fueling an “unprecedented divisiveness” and said he sets a poor example by hurling insults at those who disagree with him and his “frequent disregard for the truth.”

“If this is the new normal, I want no part of it,” he said.

McKean has served in the legislature for decades, though he was not a member from 2002 to 2016.

Spoiler:
“Upon returning to Des Moines after a 15 year hiatus, I found a very different place,” he said. “The legislature is considerably more partisan and regimented than it used to be. I have found that difficult to adjust to and believe it often stands in the way of good legislation. I’m also concerned by the increasing influence big money is having on the legislative process.”

“In addition, I found a very changed Republican caucus,” he continued. “I found myself increasingly uncomfortable with the stance of my party on the vast majority of high profile issues and often sympathetic with concerns raised by the minority caucus.”
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1570 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:06 pm

The Mueller Report Was My Tipping Point

I was a Trump transition staffer, and I’ve seen enough. It’s time for impeachment

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My permanent job is as a law professor at the George Mason University Antonin Scalia Law School, which is not political, but where my colleagues have held many prime spots in Republican administrations. I’ve worked on every Republican presidential transition team for the past 10 years and recently served as counsel to the Republican-led House Financial Services Committee.

This weekend, I read Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report twice, and realized that enough was enough—I needed to do something. If you think calling for the impeachment of a sitting Republican president would constitute career suicide for someone like me, you may end up being right. But I did exactly that this weekend, tweeting that it’s time to begin impeachment proceedings.

Read on Twitter


There is a point [where] expectation turns from a mix of loyalty and pragmatism into something more sinister, a blind devotion that serves to enable criminal conduct. The Mueller report was that tipping point for me, and it should be for Republican and independent voters, and for Republicans in Congress. In the face of a Department of Justice policy that prohibited him from indicting a sitting president, Mueller drafted what any reasonable reader would see as a referral to Congress to commence impeachment hearings.

Republicans who stand up to Trump today may face some friendly fire. Today’s Republican electorate seems spellbound by the sound bites of Twitter and cable news, for which Trump is a born wizard. Yet, in time, we can help rebuild the Republican Party, enabling it to rise from the ashes of the post-Trump apocalypse into a party with renewed commitment to principles of liberty, opportunity, and the rule of law.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1571 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:09 pm

Trump says he is opposed to White House aides testifying to Congress, deepening power struggle with Hill

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President Trump on Tuesday said he is opposed to current and former White House aides providing testimony to congressional panels in the wake of the special counsel report, intensifying a power struggle between his administration and House Democrats.

In an interview with The Washington Post, Trump said that complying with congressional requests was unnecessary after the White House cooperated with special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s probe of Russian interference and the president’s own conduct in office.

“There is no reason to go any further, and especially in Congress where it’s very partisan — obviously very partisan,” Trump said.

Trump’s comments came as the White House made it clear that it plans to broadly defy requests for information from Capitol Hill, moving the two branches of government closer to a constitutional collision.

On Tuesday, two White House officials said the administration plans to fight a subpoena issued by the House Judiciary Committee for former White House counsel Donald McGahn by asserting executive privilege over his testimony. Efforts to block Congress have also extended to Trump’s finances. On Monday, the Trump Organization filed a lawsuit to prevent an accounting firm from complying with a committee subpoena for eight years’ worth of Trump’s financial records.

The administration is continuing to work on a legal rationale for not turning over Trump’s taxes, White House aides said.
Washington Post
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1572 » by dobrojim » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:22 pm

well knowing that pubs dismiss any information from non favorably aligned sources
I believe even more fervently that this is a chillingly accurate portrayal of where
the GOP is.

Or as a FB friend of mine posted, this stink won't wash off.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/22/opinion/trump-republican-party.html?fbclid=IwAR0dHSLYWy9yQKDtw1E4Qwu3EKKnUKm87kx_ixL-R9tgApw4Qm7PfcbXjzI
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1573 » by Pointgod » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:15 pm

dobrojim wrote:well knowing that pubs dismiss any information from non favorably aligned sources
I believe even more fervently that this is a chillingly accurate portrayal of where
the GOP is.

Or as a FB friend of mine posted, this stink won't wash off.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/22/opinion/trump-republican-party.html?fbclid=IwAR0dHSLYWy9yQKDtw1E4Qwu3EKKnUKm87kx_ixL-R9tgApw4Qm7PfcbXjzI


We need more articles like this and people speaking out in the “mainstream” news. Like I keep telling everyone on this board, at the moment the problem with American politics is the Republican Party as a whole, not just Trump. This guy has some truth bombs:

Ouch
If the Republican agenda is so unpopular, how does the party win elections? Partly by lying about its policies. But mainly the G.O.P.’s political achievements depend on identity politics — white identity politics. Exploiting racial resentment to capture white working-class voters, while pursuing policies that benefit only the wealthy, has been the core of the party’s political strategy for decades. That’s why, in an increasingly diverse country, Republican support has stayed overwhelmingly white.


This is something the media has failed in and continues to fail in covering. Trump is not a populist, looking at the numbers don’t show he’s a populist either
In a fundamental sense, Trumpism is the culmination of that strategy. Commentators keep calling Trump a “populist,” but the only way in which he actually caters to working-class white voters is by appealing to their racial animus. He may be successful in doing so partly because it’s the only thing about his political persona that’s sincere: All indications are that he really is a racist.


And boom. This sums up the Republican Party and Trump in one succinct paragraph.

And these policies have endeared him to the G.O.P.’s money men. “Deep-pocketed Republicans who snubbed Donald Trump in 2016 are going all in for him in 2020,” reports Politico.

They’re doing so even though they know that Trump was installed in office in part thanks to Russian aid, that his financial entanglements with foreign governments pose huge conflicts of interest and that he consistently shows a preference for dictatorships over our democratic allies.

As I said, the modern G.O.P. is perfectly willing to sell out America if that’s what it takes to get tax cuts for the wealthy.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1574 » by closg00 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:54 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Trump says he is opposed to White House aides testifying to Congress, deepening power struggle with Hill

Image

President Trump on Tuesday said he is opposed to current and former White House aides providing testimony to congressional panels in the wake of the special counsel report, intensifying a power struggle between his administration and House Democrats.

In an interview with The Washington Post, Trump said that complying with congressional requests was unnecessary after the White House cooperated with special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s probe of Russian interference and the president’s own conduct in office.

“There is no reason to go any further, and especially in Congress where it’s very partisan — obviously very partisan,” Trump said.

Trump’s comments came as the White House made it clear that it plans to broadly defy requests for information from Capitol Hill, moving the two branches of government closer to a constitutional collision.

On Tuesday, two White House officials said the administration plans to fight a subpoena issued by the House Judiciary Committee for former White House counsel Donald McGahn by asserting executive privilege over his testimony. Efforts to block Congress have also extended to Trump’s finances. On Monday, the Trump Organization filed a lawsuit to prevent an accounting firm from complying with a committee subpoena for eight years’ worth of Trump’s financial records.

The administration is continuing to work on a legal rationale for not turning over Trump’s taxes, White House aides said.
Washington Post


...and with this, we are officially living under a Dictatorial government, enabled by a feckless party.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1575 » by popper » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:27 pm

closg00 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
Trump says he is opposed to White House aides testifying to Congress, deepening power struggle with Hill

Image

President Trump on Tuesday said he is opposed to current and former White House aides providing testimony to congressional panels in the wake of the special counsel report, intensifying a power struggle between his administration and House Democrats.

In an interview with The Washington Post, Trump said that complying with congressional requests was unnecessary after the White House cooperated with special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s probe of Russian interference and the president’s own conduct in office.

“There is no reason to go any further, and especially in Congress where it’s very partisan — obviously very partisan,” Trump said.

Trump’s comments came as the White House made it clear that it plans to broadly defy requests for information from Capitol Hill, moving the two branches of government closer to a constitutional collision.

On Tuesday, two White House officials said the administration plans to fight a subpoena issued by the House Judiciary Committee for former White House counsel Donald McGahn by asserting executive privilege over his testimony. Efforts to block Congress have also extended to Trump’s finances. On Monday, the Trump Organization filed a lawsuit to prevent an accounting firm from complying with a committee subpoena for eight years’ worth of Trump’s financial records.

The administration is continuing to work on a legal rationale for not turning over Trump’s taxes, White House aides said.
Washington Post


...and with this, we are officially living under a Dictatorial government, enabled by a feckless party.


No. We are officially living under a Constitutional Republic where an independent judiciary is called upon from time to time to adjudicate differing interpretations of law. The courts will decide what is required under the law on this issue just as they have been doing on other related issues for past 200 plus years.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1576 » by dobrojim » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:54 pm

It's hard to be confident (since Bush v Gore) that the court, when acting in extremis,
can be counted on to behave independently. I hope like all get out that I'm simply being cynical.

Dear Popper, I'm guessing I should assume given all the time that has past that you
will not be responding to the post I made a while back in which I mentioned DJT's > 9000 lies
or false of misleading statements (about 11 per day as POTUS). How in a Consitutional Republic can we forge
a consensus when one side is so generally incapable of good faith reality based discussion?
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

Those who are convinced of absurdities, can be convinced to commit atrocities
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1577 » by TGW » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:05 pm

JWizmentality wrote:Been telling you guys TGW is STD's alt account. :lol:


Image

Actually I'm Putin's alt account.

Or Noam Chomsky's alt account. So yea, I'm smarter than you.

Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1578 » by popper » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:53 pm

dobrojim wrote:It's hard to be confident (since Bush v Gore) that the court, when acting in extremis,
can be counted on to behave independently. I hope like all get out that I'm simply being cynical.

Dear Popper, I'm guessing I should assume given all the time that has past that you
will not be responding to the post I made a while back in which I mentioned DJT's > 9000 lies
or false of misleading statements (about 11 per day as POTUS). How in a Consitutional Republic can we forge
a consensus when one side is so generally incapable of good faith reality based discussion?


Sorry. I thought you’d seen my posts where on more than one occasion I called Trump a liar and an embarrassment. I’ll repeat it again - Trump lies a lot.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1579 » by I_Like_Dirt » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:09 pm

dckingsfan wrote:That would possibly be the worst of all possible outcomes. Please remember what happened when Nixon and Carter put in price controls... it was ugly.

Venezuela did this recently with price controls on food - again, not a good ending.

And yes, Doctors, Nurses and hospitals should be concerned. Medicare pays 40% of what insurers pay. This will certainly bankrupt hospitals which will cause them to default on agreements with the nurses unions.



Agreed. Rate setting is a terrible idea. If it's going to work you're going to have to have some serious enforcement of you're going to see internal collusion due to limited competition and the system will be eaten out from the inside as industry informs politicians on best practices.

I don't love the idea of nationalizing a lot of things but the hospital system needs to be, to a point, if M4A is actually something people want. You can have certain services left out of that equation, and there should be, though they will often be poached over as some of the more potentially profitable ones, but realistically, if there is going to be a reshaping of costs within the medical system, the balance of power is going to invariably need to be tilted away from private interests and towards the public interest. People may not like the government, and often for good reason, but it very much is a question of if you dislike government to the point where you're willing to run inequalities to exponential degrees over time.

If you don't tilt towards substantial nationalization, you're probably just wading into a mess that causes a lot more problems and doesn't actually solve any existing ones long term, either. The only reason not to be aboard for full nationalization would be an approach by stages to get past all the stigma that comes with such terminology. Intended or not, I get the impression that's already happened a bit with Obamacare where as a solution, it's a rather terrible one but it has opened the door to greater potential discussion on the subject and increased acceptance that there is potential good to be had from heading towards a M4A future amongst large sections of the population that would have otherwise rejected the concept of nationalization completely.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV 

Post#1580 » by JWizmentality » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:36 pm

TGW wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:Been telling you guys TGW is STD's alt account. :lol:


Image

Actually I'm Putin's alt account.

Or Noam Chomsky's alt account. So yea, I'm smarter than you.



I need my wisdom teeth pulled, when can I make an appointment bud? :D

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