Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII

[Induveca]

Stoudemire would be amazing.....and I think we'd have a shot. He's stated emphatically in the media he wants to keep his family/home in New York for life, but expects a buyout. 3 hour Amtrak ride to DC makes us the closest contender distance wise. Private jets are even very affordable with the new "empty leg" services.....he could head home for off days.

Crossing my fingers we land him after the ASG.

[hands11]

I've wanted George for quite a while now. While last year's run was fun, I knew it would result in locking up a mediocre coach longterm.

He isn't locked up long term. He has one more year on his contract. They could axe him whenever they wanted. His contact isn't all that big. And after next year, its an option year. Would love a George type or SVG but I understand why they resigned Randy. Just thankfully they did it to a good contract that wasn't to much or to long.

And the team isn't getting older

They have a few older players. One is a HOF player. The other is Miller who while not HOF, dude is up there in career assists. 9th all time where he will stay because he is 675 behind Gary Patton.

There is so much disinformation posted on this board by people that should know better.

Biggest decision they have to make right now is regarding Miller. That's where they need to add younger legs, 3 pt shooting and solid level of defense. They just have to do that without giving up to much or losing what Miller actually provides while not giving up important assets. And they have to decide to make that emotions transition. Miller has been good for the team and for Wall. And he won't likely be on the team next year.

Do they stick it out with him for one more playoff run and let him ride into the sun set or do they make a good move that could help the team get farther this year.

Its a tough business to be in. Sometimes you have to make emotionally tough moves. I would feel bad for Miller if he isn't moved to a playoff team. But thats what might need to happen for this team to maximize this years opportunity. At a personal level, I would envy the person needed to make that decision. Its harder then some hear make it out to be. Not easy firing good people just because they are getting to old to do what you need from them.

They could do that by trading with NY. They could get something like Pablo Prigioni and Larkin for Miller, 2nd and Thomas. Blair if they want him. NY is looking a accumulate assets. Pablo has been made available. Maybe Larkin can't be had. Not sure. Might not be the guy was want as a project back up PG. I would rather get a long armed prospect longer term.

We add not one PG, but two. One near the same age as Miller but who is quicker and shoots the 3 ball and a 2nd youngster.

Wall/Pablo/Larkin
Beal/Otto/Temple
PP/Rasual/Webster
Nene/Hump/Gooden
Gortat/Kevin/Blair ( if not traded in NY deal )

And even if we didn't get Larkin, you can sign a FA like Nate Robinson or DL call up. Hell, I still wouldn't mind Klem Birch on a 10 day contract. If Blair is still here, they can move him if they want Klem. Move Gooden to 3rd center and Klem 3rd PF

Andrew Goudelock will be available for nothing.
Or just grab a S Curry

Wall/Pablo/Larkin
Beal/Otto/Temple
PP/Rasual/Webster
Nene/Hump/Birch
Gortat/Kevin/Gooden

Lots of options for that 15th slot without giving up the bank once you add Pablo or C.J. Watson

[jangles86]

I've wanted George for quite a while now. While last year's run was fun, I knew it would result in locking up a mediocre coach longterm.

He isn't locked up long term. He has one more year on his contract. They could axe him whenever they wanted. His contact isn't all that big. And after next year, its an option year. Would love a George type or SVG but I understand why they resigned Randy. Just thankfully they did it to a good contract that wasn't to much or to long.

And the team isn't getting older

They have a few older players. One is a HOF player. The other is Miller who while not HOF, dude is up there in career assists. 9th all time where he will stay because he is 675 behind Gary Patton.

There is so much disinformation posted on this board by people that should know better.

Biggest decision they have to make right now is regarding Miller. That's where they need to add younger legs, 3 pt shooting and solid level of defense. They just have to do that without giving up to much or losing what Miller actually provides while not giving up important assets. And they have to decide to make that emotions transition. Miller has been good for the team and for Wall. And he won't likely be on the team next year.

Do they stick it out with him for one more playoff run and let him ride into the sun set or do they make a good move that could help the team get farther this year.

Its a tough business to be in. Sometimes you have to make emotionally tough moves. I would feel bad for Miller if he isn't moved to a playoff team. But thats what might need to happen for this team to maximize this years opportunity. At a personal level, I would envy the person needed to make that decision. Its harder then some hear make it out to be. Not easy firing good people just because they are getting to old to do what you need from them.

They could do that by trading with NY. They could get something like Pablo Prigioni and Larkin for Miller, 2nd and Thomas. Blair if they want him. NY is looking a accumulate assets. Pablo has been made available. Maybe Larkin can't be had. Not sure. Might not be the guy was want as a project back up PG. I would rather get a long armed prospect longer term.

We add not one PG, but two. One near the same age as Miller but who is quicker and shoots the 3 ball and a 2nd youngster.

Wall/Pablo/Larkin
Beal/Otto/Temple
PP/Rasual/Webster
Nene/Hump/Gooden
Gortat/Kevin/Blair ( if not traded in NY deal )

And even if we didn't get Larkin, you can sign a FA like Nate Robinson or DL call up. Hell, I still wouldn't mind Klem Birch on a 10 day contract. If Blair is still here, they can move him if they want Klem. Move Gooden to 3rd center and Klem 3rd PF

Andrew Goudelock will be available for nothing.
Or just grab a S Curry

Wall/Pablo/Larkin
Beal/Otto/Temple
PP/Rasual/Webster
Nene/Hump/Birch
Gortat/Kevin/Gooden

Lots of options for that 15th slot without giving up the bank once you add Pablo or C.J. Watson

Couple of things

When did Porter become a 2 guard?

Can you please stop bringing up Pablo Freakin Prigioni!!! EG is not going to trade for a 40 year old vet back up PG when we've already got one! You're bringing him up more then Ersan Illyasova is brought up around here!

[ozthegandp]

I thought we cant trade our first this year. Didnt we trade last yr's for gortat?

[nate33]

I thought we cant trade our first this year. Didnt we trade last yr's for gortat?

You can trade two consecutive firsts; you just can't trade two future consecutive firsts.

[hands11]

I've wanted George for quite a while now. While last year's run was fun, I knew it would result in locking up a mediocre coach longterm.

He isn't locked up long term. He has one more year on his contract. They could axe him whenever they wanted. His contact isn't all that big. And after next year, its an option year. Would love a George type or SVG but I understand why they resigned Randy. Just thankfully they did it to a good contract that wasn't to much or to long.

And the team isn't getting older

They have a few older players. One is a HOF player. The other is Miller who while not HOF, dude is up there in career assists. 9th all time where he will stay because he is 675 behind Gary Patton.

There is so much disinformation posted on this board by people that should know better.

Biggest decision they have to make right now is regarding Miller. That's where they need to add younger legs, 3 pt shooting and solid level of defense. They just have to do that without giving up to much or losing what Miller actually provides while not giving up important assets. And they have to decide to make that emotions transition. Miller has been good for the team and for Wall. And he won't likely be on the team next year.

Do they stick it out with him for one more playoff run and let him ride into the sun set or do they make a good move that could help the team get farther this year.

Its a tough business to be in. Sometimes you have to make emotionally tough moves. I would feel bad for Miller if he isn't moved to a playoff team. But thats what might need to happen for this team to maximize this years opportunity. At a personal level, I would envy the person needed to make that decision. Its harder then some hear make it out to be. Not easy firing good people just because they are getting to old to do what you need from them.

They could do that by trading with NY. They could get something like Pablo Prigioni and Larkin for Miller, 2nd and Thomas. Blair if they want him. NY is looking a accumulate assets. Pablo has been made available. Maybe Larkin can't be had. Not sure. Might not be the guy was want as a project back up PG. I would rather get a long armed prospect longer term.

We add not one PG, but two. One near the same age as Miller but who is quicker and shoots the 3 ball and a 2nd youngster.

Wall/Pablo/Larkin
Beal/Otto/Temple
PP/Rasual/Webster
Nene/Hump/Gooden
Gortat/Kevin/Blair ( if not traded in NY deal )

And even if we didn't get Larkin, you can sign a FA like Nate Robinson or DL call up. Hell, I still wouldn't mind Klem Birch on a 10 day contract. If Blair is still here, they can move him if they want Klem. Move Gooden to 3rd center and Klem 3rd PF

Andrew Goudelock will be available for nothing.
Or just grab a S Curry

Wall/Pablo/Larkin
Beal/Otto/Temple
PP/Rasual/Webster
Nene/Hump/Birch
Gortat/Kevin/Gooden

Lots of options for that 15th slot without giving up the bank once you add Pablo or C.J. Watson

Couple of things

When did Porter become a 2 guard?

Can you please stop bringing up Pablo Freakin Prigioni!!! EG is not going to trade for a 40 year old vet back up PG when we've already got one! You're bringing him up more then Ersan Illyasova is brought up around here!

Have you been following the team ?

They always wanted to get Otto minutes at the 2 and have done it before. And last game he started there. Did you miss the game ?

Besides, Randy is always saying his 2 and 3 are interchangeable. Its really about who they are guarding.

As for adding a player...

J. Michael ✔ @JMichaelCSN
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Said on our pregame show last nite, Wiz are looking at FA from overseas & players bought out 1st #WizardsTalk #NBA #WizWolves @CSNWizards
7:41 PM - 8 Feb 2015

FAs ?
Overseas ?
Players Bought out ?

As for Prigioni. No, I won't stop. He would be a solid addition given the price ( 2nd ), what he offers and what the team needs

[Dark Faze]

Why do people keep mentioning Pablo? He's worse than Miller and he's exactly what we don't need for the second unit-- a slow, can't create for himself guy who's old.

[Wizardspride]

Why do people keep mentioning Pablo? He's worse than Miller and he's exactly what we don't need for the second unit-- a slow, can't create for himself guy who's old.

People don't keep mentioning Pablo. HANDS11 keeps mentioning him.


He doesn't think the Wiz are an old team.

[Dark Faze]

We won't do this, but Adams is out for 3 weeks and the Thunder really can't afford to lose many games. I'd love to do a Gortat for Perkins and whatever expiring or low cost filler they want to give us.

It'd lead to a first round exit, but that might happen anyway and it gets us out of Gortats contract and lets us go after a guy like Monroe in the off season.

[sashae]

@hands11 the Wizards are the /oldest team in the league/ at an average age of 29.0. If you go by minutes the Wizards are the 21st in the league in rotation-adjusted real age. There are three core players in Wall, Beal and Porter that are young, and EVERY OTHER PLAYER ON THE TEAM is on the downside of their career. There's no way of arguing this -- we've got no young bigs whatsoever (#kslife is not a foundational player) and no young promise whatsoever otherwise. That is a /problem/ -- no way around it.

[Dark Faze]

Its Ernies typical MO--overrate his core and then start grabbing whatever vets he can, get to the playoffs and then quickly treadmill and degrade until he drafts another set of players, labels them as a franchise quality core and then starts the process all over again. Mix with absolutely average if not below average coaching and you have the Wizards philosophy in a nut shell.

i'm losing hope

[TheSecretWeapon]

@hands11 the Wizards are the /oldest team in the league/ at an average age of 29.0. If you go by minutes the Wizards are the 21st in the league in rotation-adjusted real age. There are three core players in Wall, Beal and Porter that are young, and EVERY OTHER PLAYER ON THE TEAM is on the downside of their career. There's no way of arguing this -- we've got no young bigs whatsoever (#kslife is not a foundational player) and no young promise whatsoever otherwise. That is a /problem/ -- no way around it.

Basketball-Reference has minutes-weighted age in the "Miscellaneous Stats" section of its Season Summary page. The Wizards are 7th in minutes weighted age at 28.7. Dallas, Memphis and San Antonio are the oldest teams at 29.8.

Interesting to see OKC, Golden State and Toronto younger than average.

[nate33]

Its Ernies typical MO--overrate his core and then start grabbing whatever vets he can, get to the playoffs and then quickly treadmill and degrade until he drafts another set of players, labels them as a franchise quality core and then starts the process all over again. Mix with absolutely average if not below average coaching and you have the Wizards philosophy in a nut shell.

i'm losing hope

While I agree that this has been his MO on the past, I'm a bit more optimistic this time around. EG appears to have made a real effort to add vets with short-term contracts, and he doesn't fall in love with them and elect to resign them for cap crippling contracts. The decision to dump Ariza and sign Paul Pierce, for example, was actually a forward-thinking move designed to put us in better position to contend in the future, even though it made us older in the short term. The same goes signing Humphries to a 2-year deal instead of resigning Booker to a long deal.

It really seems to me that EG is thinking that Wall, Beal and Porter (and Gortat) are his core, and that all the other vets are merely stopgaps to help teach Wall, Beal and Porter how to win while still maintaining future flexibility. One can question his wisdom on Gortat, but the rest of his recent moves seem pretty sound in terms of long-term planning.

Even if we fail in our KD2DC plan, we will still have flexibility. We could try and sign Henson and Whiteside, for example. Or maybe wait a year and go after guys like Adams and Gobert.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that EG doesn't have a fundamental flaw in his long term strategy. His real problem is his inability to draft well. He has made exactly one above-average pick since the Blatche selection 19 picks ago. (That one good pick was Booker.) Literally every other pick he has made since Blatche has performed equal or below what one would expect out of a pick at that spot in the draft. He is 1 for 18. (I'm ignoring Wall in this analysis. Wall might indeed measure up to a #1 overall pick, but even if so, it's not like EG gets credit for making the obvious, consensus pick.)

[Dark Faze]

My main issue is Gortat needs to be moved. He's the only problem I have from a long term perspective.

[TheSecretWeapon]

While I agree that this has been his MO on the past, I'm a bit more optimistic this time around. EG appears to have made a real effort to add vets with short-term contracts, and he doesn't fall in love with them and elect to resign them for cap crippling contracts. The decision to dump Ariza and sign Paul Pierce, for example, was actually a forward-thinking move designed to put us in better position to contend in the future, even though it made us older in the short term. The same goes signing Humphries to a 2-year deal instead of resigning Booker to a long deal.

The problem with this theory is that Grunfeld offered Ariza a four-year, $32 million contract to stay with the team. Signing Pierce to a shorter deal was Plan B. And, he gave four years to Webster. I guess, if we want to be optimistic, we could say that once Ariza decided to leave, Grunfeld adopted this plan to acquire veterans on short deals to preserve the flexibility to pursue Durant and/or other free agents.

It really seems to me that EG is thinking that Wall, Beal and Porter (and Gortat) are his core, and that all the other vets are merely stopgaps to help teach Wall, Beal and Porter how to win while still maintaining future flexibility. One can question his wisdom on Gortat, but the rest of his recent moves seem pretty sound in terms of long-term planning.

Even if we fail in our KD2DC plan, we will still have flexibility. We could try and sign Henson and Whiteside, for example. Or maybe wait a year and go after guys like Adams and Gobert.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that EG doesn't have a fundamental flaw in his long term strategy. His real problem is his inability to draft well. He has made exactly one above-average pick since the Blatche selection 19 picks ago. (That one good pick was Booker.) Literally every other pick he has made since Blatche has performed equal or below what one would expect out of a pick at that spot in the draft. He is 1 for 18. (I'm ignoring Wall in this analysis. Wall might indeed measure up to a #1 overall pick, but even if so, it's not like EG gets credit for making the obvious, consensus pick.)

Mostly agree. Grunfeld definitely has done a better job lately of evaluating established NBA players than he has players entering the draft. Even then, however, he massively whiffed on Maynor.

[Dark Faze]

The fact that he was about to lock us into this team for many years to come just shows how terrible Grunsfeld is. Wall, Beal, Porter/Ariza, and Gortat locked into 4/5 year deals is an absolute recipe for mediocrity. It would end with a bunch of 1st/2nd round losses and then Wall leaving when his contract is up.

[dckingsfan]

Why do people keep mentioning Pablo? He's worse than Miller and he's exactly what we don't need for the second unit-- a slow, can't create for himself guy who's old.

People don't keep mentioning Pablo. HANDS11 keeps mentioning him.


He doesn't think the Wiz are an old team.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyZaUwG50zI[/youtube]

[dckingsfan]

Mostly agree. Grunfeld definitely has done a better job lately of evaluating established NBA players than he has players entering the draft. Even then, however, he massively whiffed on Maynor.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4O9MPV_uf8[/youtube]

[nate33]

The fact that he was about to lock us into this team for many years to come just shows how terrible Grunsfeld is. Wall, Beal, Porter/Ariza, and Gortat locked into 4/5 year deals is an absolute recipe for mediocrity. It would end with a bunch of 1st/2nd round losses and then Wall leaving when his contract is up.

I think Ariza is better than Pierce for this team (though Pierce has been great). Also if Ariza was indeed locked into a 4-year $32M deal, particularly if it was with salary decreases like the one he signed with Houston, then he would be a fairly good bargain and an easily movable contract. And it wouldn't mean the team was locked into the current roster. We'd still be on pace to have roughly $16M in cap room in 2016 on a team with Wall, Beal, Porter, Ariza, Humphries and Gortat. Maybe that's not a true contender, but it's a fair bit better than mediocre, and there are assets available to trade for the next available disgruntled superstar (Love, Cousins, etc.).

Again, I don't want it to sound like I think EG has done a great job or anything. Clearly, he hasn't. I'm just saying the characterization that he overrates his core and grabs whatever vets he can is a bit of a stretch. He seems to be following a coherent plan. The difference between (recent) EG and other good GM's isn't in his strategy, it's in his talent evaluation. He doesn't find underrated talents and sign them to cheap long term deals (Danny Green, Monta Ellis, Brandan Wright, etc.) and he's terrible at finding useful players in the draft. You gotta give him credit this year for signing Humphries and Pierce to bargain contracts though.

[Dark Faze]

I just don't see how that core is a fair bit better than mediocre. By east standards maybe we'd be okay, but when the western conference enters the picture we're indeed just around that mediocre level.