Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

[Ruzious]

They couldn't leave well enough alone and trust the process

And really, who didn't see this kind of thing happen when Philly traded for Butler? This is a recent post from a Philly fan:

So we want the ball out of Ben's hands in the half court and in Jimmy's. Well...those 3 awful possessions late in game 7 where Jimmy had the ball we had 2 shot clock violations and 1 terrible shot late. 3 biggest possessions of the season and we get 1 shot off? Are you kidding me?

Yeah, they completely reversed the process - there was never an in-between. They went from putting everything off to the future to "the future is now".

[payitforward]

Aren't you a huge McConnel fan? Shouldn't he get more burn at PG? I think they got Harris for the playoffs more than anything else - not sure it makes sense for them to re-sign him.

McConnell is unrestricted. But, sure.

Maybe they can trade for Fultz...?

As to Harris, do you recollect what they gave up for him? 3 months ago? Their 2020 R1 pick (lottery protected), Miami's 2021 R1 pick (unprotected & almost certainly a lottery pick), Landry Shamet (a R1 pick 9 months ago, 9th among rookies in minutes & a very promising young player), their 2021 R2 pick, & Detroit's 2023 R2 pick.

If they really only got him for the playoff run, then Elton Brand should be fired immediately. Actually, their ownership should commit hara-kiri for all the awful hirings & other decisions they've made the last few years. I'm looking forward to their firing Brett Brown any day now.

You can stick a fork in the Sixers. They're done.

So you're saying Philly should pay what it takes to keep Harris? I'm guessing Harris costs far more than McConnel will.

Btw, they also got Boban and Scott in the trade. Was it a smart trade? - hell no. I believe I said at the time that I finally agreed with you on something. We used to agree most of the time. But I don't think re-signing Harris for the money it will take will make the trade any less bad.

We still agree most of the time, Ruz -- or at least I agree with you most of the time! But people don't go back & forth in debate about the things they agree on!

No, I don't think Philly should pay Harris -- he will be overpaid by a lot. I really had high hopes for him coming out of college, but he hasn't developed into the player I hoped he'd become. Not altogether his fault in that he has the "tweener" problem -- doesn't rebound well enough to play the 4 & not mobile enough for a 3.

What I think is in the last sentence of my previous post: they're done. Or, more accurately, they've done themselves in. They've got a couple of outstanding players, of course, so it they retain Butler & get really lucky in this draft, they won't tumble. But... imagine that team if they'd retained Hinkie & done a good job in the 2015 & 2017 drafts! Whoa!

As to Boban & Scott, like Harris they are unrestricted. Scott was terrible as usual (shot the 3 well, but look at TS%; awful at everything else). Boban is really good, of course. But, will they be smart enough to retain him?

[dckingsfan]

I'm not as high on Tatum as you are. He's good, but he can't handle bigs like Giannis. Then again, that's an awfully tough criteria. He's not the 3 point shooter it looked like he would be in the first half of his rookie season. I guess teams adjusted, and he didn't/couldn't make a counter adjustment.

I think Chicago is a solid trade partner with Washington. They have a high pick (4 now - but we'lll see tomorrow night) and Lavine. They have a good future starting 5 (particularly the front court with Markkanen, Carter, and Otto), but they're lacking that one #1 option on offense with some experience to lead them, and Beal could be that guy. And I think Dunn needs someone like Beal to become a more effective PG. But the Bulls might be sold on Lavine - considering he put up some impressive numbers last season (though a lot of turnovers) and looked physically stronger.

I think Chicago is dreaming of Morant

I don't know - I think that team is sorely lacking in on-court maturity and leadership, and a rookie from a small conference isn't as good for them as a young proven all-star.

They need to trust the process - take Morant and go with
Morant, Levine, Porter, Markkanen and Carter
and off the bench
Dunn, Valentine, Felicio

They also have Hutchison and Blakeney that won't receive any real playing time. 2019-20 isn't there year. It is the year after. Although that team will challenge for a playoff spot in the east, IMO.

[payitforward]

They couldn't leave well enough alone and trust the process

And really, who didn't see this kind of thing happen when Philly traded for Butler? This is a recent post from a Philly fan:

Yeah, they completely reversed the process - there was never an in-between. They went from putting everything off to the future to "the future is now".

Yup, & "now" the future is yesterday!

Looks like we're all in violent agreement about Philly. Like I wrote yesterday, ownership should commit hara-kiri!

[NYG]

Do the lotto results give the Lakers a shot at Beal?

[NYG]

Do the lotto results give the Lakers a shot at Beal?

4, Ingram, Kuzma and Hart for Beal? Or does the new regime absolutely want to keep Beal and make it work with him in Washington first?

[TGW]

Do the lotto results give the Lakers a shot at Beal?

4, Ingram, Kuzma and Hart for Beal? Or does the new regime absolutely want to keep Beal and make it work with him in Washington first?

We'll have no idea until a new GM is hired. The owner loves Beal, so it's going to be a hard sell for any GM that wants to trade him.

[NYG]

Do the lotto results give the Lakers a shot at Beal?

4, Ingram, Kuzma and Hart for Beal? Or does the new regime absolutely want to keep Beal and make it work with him in Washington first?

We'll have no idea until a new GM is hired. The owner loves Beal, so it's going to be a hard sell for any GM that wants to trade him.

I’m not a Lakers or Wizards fan, but how is the value on that deal if they went the trade Beal route?

[nate33]

4, Ingram, Kuzma and Hart for Beal? Or does the new regime absolutely want to keep Beal and make it work with him in Washington first?

We'll have no idea until a new GM is hired. The owner loves Beal, so it's going to be a hard sell for any GM that wants to trade him.

I’m not a Lakers or Wizards fan, but how is the value on that deal if they went the trade Beal route?

I think the #4 pick in this draft is like a #10 pick in a normal draft. And Kuzma and Hart aren't star caliber talents, they're just guys who can eat up a few minutes. So, no. The deal doesn't interest me at all.

Beal is 25. There is no rush. I'm totally happy keeping Beal long term. If someone blows me away with an offer, I'll listen. But this is not a blow me away offer.

[Ruzious]

Do the lotto results give the Lakers a shot at Beal?

4, Ingram, Kuzma and Hart for Beal? Or does the new regime absolutely want to keep Beal and make it work with him in Washington first?

I think the Lakers would have to offer the 4th pick, Ingram, and Hart to get the discussion started.

[pcbothwel]

We'll have no idea until a new GM is hired. The owner loves Beal, so it's going to be a hard sell for any GM that wants to trade him.

I’m not a Lakers or Wizards fan, but how is the value on that deal if they went the trade Beal route?

I think the #4 pick in this draft is like a #10 pick in a normal draft. And Kuzma and Hart aren't star caliber talents, they're just guys who can eat up a few minutes. So, no. The deal doesn't interest me at all.

Beal is 25. There is no rush. I'm totally happy keeping Beal long term. If someone blows me away with an offer, I'll listen. But this is not a blow me away offer.

Exactly.
Lets be clear, this is not the NFL. Top 4 teams in each conference are not Overly worried about the first half of the season. Its Post AS break into the playoffs that matter. So trading Beal in January probably gets us just as good a package as he does now.

We are in the driver seat. The FA class this year is REALLY good, but there are simply too many Buyers. And next years UFA class is ATROCIOUS outside of AD.
If AD gets moved to LAL or NYK, Beals value sky rockets.

[thricethefun]

If the Knicks offered #3, and the 2 future Mavs picks for Beal would you do it? I might

[Illmatic12]

If the Knicks offered #3, and the 2 future Mavs picks for Beal would you do it? I might

One of the Mavs picks is protected, and the other unprotected pick is in a year where Dallas stands to be pretty good with Luka + healthy Porzingis. #3 pick is Barrett who is fine but probably wouldn’t go that high in most draft classes so he’s more like a typical ~5th pick.

So those draft assets aren’t necessarily as good as they seem.

If NYK built a package based around the #3 + Mitchell Robinson then we’re a lot closer.

[nate33]

If the Knicks offered #3, and the 2 future Mavs picks for Beal would you do it? I might

I might do it too. I don't think Porzingis is half as good as the hype so I'm not so certain Dallas will avoid the lottery in the competitive West.

That said, I'm struggling to see how to make it work if we assume that New York is going after Durant plus one more max or near-max guy. They don't really have any filler contracts other than Ntilikina's $4.8M. They'd have to include Knox and Smith just to make the salaries work out, at which point, New York might start to balk. They're going to need someone other than vet minimum guys to round out the roster.

[Mizerooskie]

I’m not a Lakers or Wizards fan, but how is the value on that deal if they went the trade Beal route?

I think the #4 pick in this draft is like a #10 pick in a normal draft. And Kuzma and Hart aren't star caliber talents, they're just guys who can eat up a few minutes. So, no. The deal doesn't interest me at all.

Beal is 25. There is no rush. I'm totally happy keeping Beal long term. If someone blows me away with an offer, I'll listen. But this is not a blow me away offer.

Exactly.
Lets be clear, this is not the NFL. Top 4 teams in each conference are not Overly worried about the first half of the season. Its Post AS break into the playoffs that matter. So trading Beal in January probably gets us just as good a package as he does now.

We are in the driver seat. The FA class this year is REALLY good, but there are simply too many Buyers. And next years UFA class is ATROCIOUS outside of AD.
If AD gets moved to LAL or NYK, Beals value sky rockets.

This this this. The only way I trade Beal this summer is if Memphis takes Barrett and the Knicks offer Morant + 2 Mavs 1sts + a young player.

Otherwise, wait it out. We're talking about arguably the top true SG (given Harden is a PG) in the game, and he's only 25.

[doclinkin]

...With better spacing, Philly would not have lost to Toronto. ...

Just noticed this.... How true.

Also with one more rebound. Also with one fewer turnover or one fewer steal.

In other words, Philly came within the thinnest possible margin of going to the ECF. A thinner margin would not be possible.

In game 7, the Sixers had 15 turnovers, 4 steals & 5 offensive rebounds. That's a minus 6 on the total. Toronto had 10 turnovers, 10 steals & 16 offensive rebounds. That's a plus 16.

A 22 possession difference overall. If you don't have the ball, your spacing doesn't affect much. Overall, in game 7, the Sixers got to take 65 shots. I'm not sure I've ever seen a box score in which one team took that few shots. Toronto took 89 shots. Philly did get 11 more FTAs.

The game was close only b/c Toronto was absolutely awful offensively. They went 34-89.

I noticed Toronto went super big for long stretches with Kawhi at the 2 & Siakam at the 3. Probably because Ibaka was better than Danny Green in the series but while it made for terrible offense, it made life miserable for Philly's offense and they dominated the boards in game 7.

It seems alot of small ball theories that clearly work in the regular season go out the window in a 7 game series.

What I've been banging on for a while. And Why I fully expect the Bucks to win the shiny wastebasket this year.

[Dat2U]

So here's my latest attempt at a competitive team this year in effort to keep Beal. This is not an easy exercise!

Trade down with Boston from 9 to get the 14 & 20.

Draft: Tyler Herro & Luka Samanic

FA: Sign Rudy Gay to MLE. Taj Gibson to BAE. Alex Caruso & Furkan Korkmaz to vet minimum

Resign: Tomas Satoransky, Thomas Bryant, Jeff Green

C Bryant / Howard / Mahinmi
F Gibson / Green / Samanic
F Gay / Brown Jr / Korkmaz
G Beal / Herro / McRae
G Satoransky / Caruso / Wall

Does this team make the playoffs in the East?

[nate33]

So here's my latest attempt at a competitive team this year in effort to keep Beal. This is not an easy exercise!

Trade down with Boston from 9 to get the 14 & 20.

Draft: Tyler Herro & Luka Samanic

FA: Sign Rudy Gay to MLE. Taj Gibson to BAE. Alex Caruso & Furkan Korkmaz to vet minimum

Resign: Tomas Satoransky, Thomas Bryant, Jeff Green

C Bryant / Howard / Mahinmi
F Gibson / Green / Samanic
F Gay / Brown Jr / Korkmaz
G Beal / Herro / McRae
G Satoransky / Caruso / Wall

Does this team make the playoffs in the East?

That is an interesting team. I like the addition of Gibson if we're doing a "win now" plan. That said, I really don't think a win now plan makes a lot of sense. I'm not saying blow it all up. I'm just saying we should be thinking about win in 1-3 years, not immediately. With that in mind, I still rather like the idea of keeping Jabari Parker on a 2+1 deal.

[Dat2U]

So here's my latest attempt at a competitive team this year in effort to keep Beal. This is not an easy exercise!

Trade down with Boston from 9 to get the 14 & 20.

Draft: Tyler Herro & Luka Samanic

FA: Sign Rudy Gay to MLE. Taj Gibson to BAE. Alex Caruso & Furkan Korkmaz to vet minimum

Resign: Tomas Satoransky, Thomas Bryant, Jeff Green

C Bryant / Howard / Mahinmi
F Gibson / Green / Samanic
F Gay / Brown Jr / Korkmaz
G Beal / Herro / McRae
G Satoransky / Caruso / Wall

Does this team make the playoffs in the East?

That is an interesting team. I like the addition of Gibson if we're doing a "win now" plan. That said, I really don't think a win now plan makes a lot of sense. I'm not saying blow it all up. I'm just saying we should be thinking about win in 1-3 years, not immediately. With that in mind, I still rather like the idea of keeping Jabari Parker on a 2+1 deal.

Well I find the idea that anything other than win now is acceptable to Beal to be a little farfetched despite the arguments that have been made.

Also I see you keep plugging Jabari as a candidate to return. I honestly think Jabari is the worst type of vet you can have around a young team. Disengaged, moody, inconsistent from game to game, a general indifference to defense. I'd prefer a less talented vet that can set a good example and be a leader to the young guys.

[nate33]

That is an interesting team. I like the addition of Gibson if we're doing a "win now" plan. That said, I really don't think a win now plan makes a lot of sense. I'm not saying blow it all up. I'm just saying we should be thinking about win in 1-3 years, not immediately. With that in mind, I still rather like the idea of keeping Jabari Parker on a 2+1 deal.

Well I find the idea that anything other than win now is acceptable to Beal to be a little farfetched despite the arguments that have been made.

Beal isn't stupid. He understands that you don't turn a 32 win team into a title contender with the #9 pick, no cap room, and John Wall missing the entire season. This is, at the very minimum a 2-year plan to get back to being a legitimate 2nd round playoff team, and probably more like a 3-year plan. You don't sign a 34-year-old Taj Gibson and a 33-year-old Rudy Gay if you're looking at a 2-3 year plan. You sign somebody young who will hopefully be even better in 2-3 years.

Also I see you keep plugging Jabari as a candidate to return. I honestly think Jabari is the worst type of vet you can have around a young team. Disengaged, moody, inconsistent from game to game, a general indifference to defense. I'd prefer a less talented vet that can set a good example and be a leader to the young guys.

You may well be right about that. I don't really know. It's certainly an issue I would want my GM to vet thoroughly before signing him. Maybe Parker isn't the right guy. But if not Parker, then I'd be looking for someone else who is young with upside. Or I'd be trying to absorb an over-the-hill vet in exchange for future picks. I wouldn't go all in on Rudy Gay and Taj Gibson, unless we're talking one-year vet minimum type deals (which is highly unlikely in Gay's case, and probably Gibson as well).