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Rui Hachimura

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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1581 » by prime1time » Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:23 pm

TGW wrote:
prime1time wrote:
TGW wrote:
Uh no. Rui’s got a lot of work to do to become a good player. Right now, he’s barely above replacement level. He hasn’t been awful but hes definitely not making anyone eat crow. Get real.

I'm so tired of this sentiment. Rui has done more than enough already to justify drafting him. And the only reason people on this thread insist on not giving him his due is because they keep on changing the goal post. How many players each draft end up being good players? And for the ones that do, how many do it in a year and a half? What the Hachimura detractors have done is create a standard that is almost impossible for Hachimura to reach at this point in his career. He's a second year player who shows good potential. Funny how for many people on this board that's a negative statement. The vast majority of drafted NBA players never become good players. The fact that we are a year and a half in and Rui still has a realistic path to become a good player justifies the draft pick.


You're in love with everyone on this team. Only problem is that all these awesome players have accumulated a 11-18 record. Maybe that's a sign that you need to re-evaluate how you evaluate players.

btw, I don't hate Hachimura. He has some talent, but to claim that he's a good player right now is delusional.

You should check your reading comprehension. Kind of weird to quote someone then write a response that in no way, shape or form addresses what they wrote. As far as your other point, it lacks any semblance of credibility. You can go in the Bonga thread I've clearly pointed out his flaws. You can go in the Westbrook thread, once again I've clearly pointed out his flaws. Even in the Beal thread I've pointed out ways he can improve. And if you really want to get down to it, you and I don't even disagree with what we objectively see from Hachimura.

I wrote, "The fact that we are a year and a half in and Rui still has a realistic path to become a good player justifies the draft pick." In response you wrote, "You're in love with everyone on this team. Only problem is that all these awesome players have accumulated a 11-18 record. Maybe that's a sign that you need to re-evaluate how you evaluate players." Maybe instead of challenging how I evaluate players, you should evaluate your reading comprehension. What I take exception to, is some poster's obsession with framing everything Hachimura does in a negative light. He's a young player who has the potential to develop into a good player. For most fan bases that's a good thing. In our forum, we just have posters running around constantly reminding everyone that the player that we just drafted last year isn't a good player. It's quite bizarre. If Hachimura was 28 or a 10 year vet I could understand. But he's 23.

Read on Twitter
?s=20

I posted this very tweet when I saw it. As for my evaluations of Hachimura, maybe you should actually (and it might sound crazy) read what I wrote. Hachimura needs to improve his 3-point shooting. He needs to improve his help defense. He needs to either draw charges or contest at the rim. He needs to continue to develop his handles so he can initiate offense and lead the break more fluidly. With that being said, posters like yourself constantly move the goal post. I was told that Rui couldn't play adequate one-on-one defense. Now he does, and yet his detractors can't even point out when they've been proved wrong. Rui is taking more 3's this year and making them at a higher percentage. Showing clear-cut improvement. Yet, once again his detractors can't acknowledge the improvement.

I challenge you to reference any post where I said that Rui is a good player right now. If I did, I take it back. With young players the question isn't where they are right now, it's are they improving. When someone points out that he's improving and you find the need to jump in and say that he's not a good player, don't be surprised when someone calls you out on it.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1582 » by prime1time » Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:27 pm

TGW wrote:Oh and I made a mistake in saying Rui's was barely above replacement level. I was wrong. He's actually well below replacement level. His BPM is -2.8, and according to basketball reference, "Below -2.0 are many end-of-bench players".

Ahhh yes, "I'm not a Rui hater" quickly shows his true colors. Regardless I'm done responding until the next time someone wants to point out how a young player has improved and you want to focus on where he is currently. What you choose to fixate on, says more about you than it says about Rui.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1583 » by NatP4 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:42 pm

What exactly is his path to becoming a good player?
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1584 » by pcbothwel » Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:20 pm

NatP4 wrote:What exactly is his path to becoming a good player?


Per 36: 20 & 8 with a TS of 60% and strong man defense.
- I really dont see this as a stretch. He's already shown a high skill level in scoring in multiple ways. Even if his 3 ball never gets above the 33-34% range, he'll get to the line and hit his FT's.
- He's already shown to be good, but inconsistent on ball defender.

Its not an AS, but you didnt say great... you said good.
So... Tobias Harris/Granger type. 3rd best player on a top 4 seed in his prime.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1585 » by DCZards » Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:43 pm

NatP4 wrote:What exactly is his path to becoming a good player?

His path to becoming a good/valuable player is to continue to work on those things that will help his team win, including improving his 3pt shooting and his emerging ability to defend 3-4 positions.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1586 » by tontoz » Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:41 pm

I am still undecided on Rui. Doesn't seem to have a high motor or high iq which you would want at the 4. However he has shown enough game that I can't say he won't become a good player.

TBD
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1587 » by smoothSeph » Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:02 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=21

Not bad for a below average replacement.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1588 » by NatP4 » Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:24 pm

Pretty irrelevant stat. He’s played over 30 minutes and taken over 11 shots per game in those 71 games. I would assume 90% of the players in the NBA would’ve scored atleast double digits in 53 of those games.

But it’s fun to see his name in a list with Beal and Unseld
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1589 » by smoothSeph » Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:51 pm

smoothSeph wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21

Not bad for a below average replacement.

Read on Twitter
?s=20
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1590 » by prime1time » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:43 pm

Read on Twitter

Not bad for a guy with no defensive skill
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1591 » by TGW » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:49 pm

tontoz wrote:I am still undecided on Rui. Doesn't seem to have a high motor or high iq which you would want at the 4. However he has shown enough game that I can't say he won't become a good player.

TBD


This is exactly what I said earlier in this thread. Apparently this makes you a hater according to the emotional pompom waiving fangirls on this board.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1592 » by smoothSeph » Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:12 pm

TGW wrote:
tontoz wrote:I am still undecided on Rui. Doesn't seem to have a high motor or high iq which you would want at the 4. However he has shown enough game that I can't say he won't become a good player.

TBD


This is exactly what I said earlier in this thread. Apparently this makes you a hater according to the emotional pompom waiving fangirls on this board.

That is not exactly what you said. Be a man and stand on your word.. since you want to talk about “fangirls”
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1593 » by I_Like_Dirt » Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:50 pm

NatP4 wrote:Pretty irrelevant stat. He’s played over 30 minutes and taken over 11 shots per game in those 71 games. I would assume 90% of the players in the NBA would’ve scored atleast double digits in 53 of those games.

But it’s fun to see his name in a list with Beal and Unseld
The bigger thing is that you have to be good enough to play those minutes. Most NBA players don't play that many minutes early on regardless of whether or not the team is good or bad. The catch is that it's not necessarily a sign of high potential but a high floor.

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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1594 » by The Consiglieri » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:42 pm

JWizmentality wrote:
smoothSeph wrote:
Read on Twitter


Another day another example of the worst defensive player in the league struggling vs extremely subpar offensive talent.

Don't mind me I'll just be re watching 1:32 for the next half an hour.


But Brandon Clarke tho....



That was about 50% of the hating, the looney belief that the team could, should, and would draft exactly who you wanted (when I see that, I tend to think fans are much younger than me (46), as four decades of draft watching have proven x1000, that unless I love a top 2-3 pick, and my team has a top 2-3 pick, chances are, we're not taking "my guy", and I shouldn't obsess on my guy, and lose my ---- when he isn't the selection. After having watched dozens and dozens of draft, for every Fred Smoot or Juwon Howard, there are a million Guggs, LaRon Landry's, and Otto Porter's over the years that convinced me a thousand times over that I simply cannot get married to particular prospects at slot, but rather should just tier out guys and be done with it), time and experience will prove that you'll be endlessly miserable if you want and expect the team to take "your guy's". Totally fine w/people having their "guy" and valuing them, and being right over and over (CCJ in the aughts did that a ton), PIF and many many others did that with Clarke and nailed it while the NBA stumbled around blindly, I think most of us nailed MPJR while the NBA exec's went full moron, and this past year everyone loved Haliburton and for good reason, and plenty of teams swung and missed yet again. However, your team will have a board, with loads of guys on it, and if you're gonna lose it every time they don't take your fav, well, like I said, you're gonna spend every draft day as Irate and miserable as I was for decades.

I still lose my ----,no doubt, but these days its more about bad process, than it is about specific players like Clarke or Haliburton. The redskins just blindly going Chase Young over QB was epic bad process then and it is now. We all knew that barring injury Young would be an all world DE, but the league is filled with all world DE's over the years that played for ---- teams that were totally irrelevant. When you note that around 80% of the teams that made conference title games in the past decade has HOF QB's or QB's drafted in round 1 starting for them, you should note that unless you are a well oiled machine like the Ravens, you probably won't survive trying team building a different way than by first getting a franchise QB. Alas, the redskins never learn and probably never will. They couldn't even get tanking right this past season and lost out one of the best QB classes in decades in the process. Oh well. Wizards are doing exactly the same thing now in terms of ruining a wonderful tanking season.

But back on topic, I definitely think at least half of the Hachimura hate was all about who wasn't the pick instead of whether it was bad process and bad evaluation or not. As it was, he was reasonable, maybe a slight upside reach w/some concern, but not at all a bad pick per se, and happily it looks like it's coming around. Hopefully the same happens with Deni. I would've loved to have Clarke with a trade down but failing that, Hachimura is great too, and those inside NBA scout types seem to really love him in terms of upside long term. Will be really funny if he ends up panning out as a top 5 or 6 guy from the class a few years down the road.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1595 » by The Consiglieri » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:55 pm

TGW wrote:
tontoz wrote:I am still undecided on Rui. Doesn't seem to have a high motor or high iq which you would want at the 4. However he has shown enough game that I can't say he won't become a good player.

TBD


This is exactly what I said earlier in this thread. Apparently this makes you a hater according to the emotional pompom waiving fangirls on this board.


You definitely do not sound undecided in your posts about Rui, and that's fine, it's emphatically clear you think he sucks. Emphatically clear. You're being disingenuous here. You're not in neutral, "lets wait and see" mode at all, and that's fine, opinions are what boards are for, and you (or is it PIF?) definitely marshal some evidence to back up your takes. I disagree w/you guys, I'm just not married to this opinion to the degree I am that failing to trade Beal earlier and failing to tank this year was a catastrophe (pending the lottery). Maybe I'm wrong about my take w/regards to that, who knows, in regards to Hachimura, I'm cautiously optimistic and very happy that seemingly people around the NBA are excited about him and can point to some trend lines that are positive, mixed in w/others that aren't so much. We'll see how it plays out given time, maybe you will have nailed this. I imagine we both hope not, it will suck if you're right about him obviously.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1596 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:36 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:
smoothSeph wrote:
Read on Twitter


Another day another example of the worst defensive player in the league struggling vs extremely subpar offensive talent.

Don't mind me I'll just be re watching 1:32 for the next half an hour.


But Brandon Clarke tho....



That was about 50% of the hating, the looney belief that the team could, should, and would draft exactly who you wanted (when I see that, I tend to think fans are much younger than me (46), as four decades of draft watching have proven x1000, that unless I love a top 2-3 pick, and my team has a top 2-3 pick, chances are, we're not taking "my guy", and I shouldn't obsess on my guy, and lose my ---- when he isn't the selection. After having watched dozens and dozens of draft, for every Fred Smoot or Juwon Howard, there are a million Guggs, LaRon Landry's, and Otto Porter's over the years that convinced me a thousand times over that I simply cannot get married to particular prospects at slot, but rather should just tier out guys and be done with it), time and experience will prove that you'll be endlessly miserable if you want and expect the team to take "your guy's". Totally fine w/people having their "guy" and valuing them, and being right over and over (CCJ in the aughts did that a ton), PIF and many many others did that with Clarke and nailed it while the NBA stumbled around blindly, I think most of us nailed MPJR while the NBA exec's went full moron, and this past year everyone loved Haliburton and for good reason, and plenty of teams swung and missed yet again. However, your team will have a board, with loads of guys on it, and if you're gonna lose it every time they don't take your fav, well, like I said, you're gonna spend every draft day as Irate and miserable as I was for decades.

I still lose my ----,no doubt, but these days its more about bad process, than it is about specific players like Clarke or Haliburton. The redskins just blindly going Chase Young over QB was epic bad process then and it is now. We all knew that barring injury Young would be an all world DE, but the league is filled with all world DE's over the years that played for ---- teams that were totally irrelevant. When you note that around 80% of the teams that made conference title games in the past decade has HOF QB's or QB's drafted in round 1 starting for them, you should note that unless you are a well oiled machine like the Ravens, you probably won't survive trying team building a different way than by first getting a franchise QB. Alas, the redskins never learn and probably never will. They couldn't even get tanking right this past season and lost out one of the best QB classes in decades in the process. Oh well. Wizards are doing exactly the same thing now in terms of ruining a wonderful tanking season.

But back on topic, I definitely think at least half of the Hachimura hate was all about who wasn't the pick instead of whether it was bad process and bad evaluation or not. As it was, he was reasonable, maybe a slight upside reach w/some concern, but not at all a bad pick per se, and happily it looks like it's coming around. Hopefully the same happens with Deni. I would've loved to have Clarke with a trade down but failing that, Hachimura is great too, and those inside NBA scout types seem to really love him in terms of upside long term. Will be really funny if he ends up panning out as a top 5 or 6 guy from the class a few years down the road.


You are right this is no longer the aughts.

2020 was damn near the end of me.

Hard to be right about **** when you’re living in a veteran shelter. I have not studied the draft well for about three years now.

That said I’m eating clean, living in a much better situation, And I’m still me.

Rui Hachimura is evolving into a better than serviceable Blair (I swear to God AutoCorrect did that!!). and I will be the first to admit that I never anticipated he would become a better defense of player as quickly as he has.

Talk to text reminded me that I was right about DeJuan Blair. I was trying to humbly admit that I was wrong about a lot of stuff this last draft.

Rui is an integral part of this team. Score one for Tommy Shepherd!
Tre Johnson is the future of the Wizards.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1597 » by doclinkin » Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:27 am

Bumping this for appreciation of Rui's career game vs Milwuakee;

https://nbafullhd.com/milwaukee-bucks-vs-washington-wizards-13-mar-2021-replays-full-game/
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1598 » by nate33 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:50 pm



I like that he shot 3's with confidence today, not pump faking just because somebody was within 10 feet of him. The one at 1:26 had a guy closing pretty quickly but Rui launched it anyway. He really needs to continue doing this. Not only are they good shots, but the threat of him shooting a quick 3 will increase spacing and make life easier on his teammates.

He also had a few grown ass man rebounds in traffic, which was nice to see. Rui has great hands, good athleticism and isn't afraid of contact. I just don't understand why he can't rebound more consistently. He really should be able to improve on this.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1599 » by payitforward » Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:50 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:...That was about 50% of the hating, the looney belief that the team could, should, and would draft exactly who you wanted.... Totally fine w/people having their "guy" and valuing them, and being right over and over (CCJ in the aughts did that a ton), PIF and many many others did that with Clarke and nailed it[/size] while the NBA stumbled around blindly, I think most of us nailed MPJR while the NBA exec's went full moron, and this past year everyone loved Haliburton and for good reason, and plenty of teams swung and missed yet again. However, your team will have a board, with loads of guys on it, and if you're gonna lose it every time they don't take your fav, well, like I said, you're gonna spend every draft day as Irate and miserable as I was for decades.

...I definitely think at least half of the Hachimura hate was all about who wasn't the pick instead of whether it was bad process and bad evaluation or not. As it was, he was reasonable, maybe a slight upside reach w/some concern, but not at all a bad pick per se.... I would've loved to have Clarke with a trade down but failing that, Hachimura is great too, and those inside NBA scout types seem to really love him in terms of upside long term. Will be really funny if he ends up panning out as a top 5 or 6 guy from the class a few years down the road.

While this is thoughtful & considered, I don't see a way to agree with much of it.

Rui had a great game last night vs. the Bucks. But the idea of him "panning out as... top 5 or 6" is pure fantasy. & it was precisely "bad process and bad evaluation" that bothered me. If you recall, Tommy said that "we were all in on Rui." Has it looked to you like he was worth being all in on given his overall performance in what is now over 2300 minutes?

To me it looks like at least 50% of that "all in" was about his sizable & utterly unique marketing value. As far as evaluation in that draft, I had him somewhere around the #20 prospect.

This has nothing to do with Mr. Unnameable, whom I wouldn't have taken at #9 either. Trading down was the right "process."

That said, I don't think there has been any "hating" of Rui at all. How could you hate him? -- he's a great kid; that's obvious!! You can hate the pick without that making you want to dislike Rui -- or even make you want him not to work out. I want every one of these kids to work out!

By now this subject has been talked to death. I wanted to trade down & get Clarke plus one of Johnson or Thybulle. Turns out that would have been an enormously better move. Way way better.

Hey... I can be wrong -- I have been many times & I'm sure I will be many times again. But not this time. That's as far as it goes.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1600 » by payitforward » Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:02 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:
TGW wrote:
tontoz wrote:I am still undecided on Rui. Doesn't seem to have a high motor or high iq which you would want at the 4. However he has shown enough game that I can't say he won't become a good player.

TBD


This is exactly what I said earlier in this thread. Apparently this makes you a hater according to the emotional pompom waiving fangirls on this board.


You definitely do not sound undecided in your posts about Rui, and that's fine, it's emphatically clear you think he sucks. Emphatically clear. You're being disingenuous here. You're not in neutral, "lets wait and see" mode at all, and that's fine, opinions are what boards are for, and you (or is it PIF?) definitely marshal some evidence to back up your takes...

Sorry, but this does not describe me. I've made myself clear a thousand times.

1. Picking Rui # 9 in the 2019 draft was not a good move. Note that this is not the same as saying Rui can't become a terrific player.

2. As a rookie, Rui did the single most important positive thing possible -- he proved that he was not a bust & not going to be one. I only wrote these exact words about 2 dozen times.

3. Rui has the potential to become an outstanding NBA player. These words too I have written about 2 dozen times. Beginning I guess about 10-12 games into his rookie year. "Has the potential to become" is not the same "is destined to become."

4. So far, Rui hasn't been very good at all. Great game vs. the Bucks -- all praise for that. If he keeps that up then he will make it true that he has the potential to be outstanding. Overall, however, he wasn't "good" as a rookie by any measure. &, overall, he hasn't gotten better as a 2d year player.

That's as far as it goes. There is no more to say than that.

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