Cleveland Cavaliers VS Washington Wizards

[LyricalRico]

^ Agreed. I also have a lot of respect for Byron Scott as a head coach. He's the perfect guy for a team like Cleveland. Nothing fancy, but he won't let them feel sorry for themselves after losing LeBron and he's going to make sure they play hard with good fundamentals.

I actually wouldn't mind having him here. Flip was the right hire last year IMO when this was a veteran team planning to contend. But now that we're rebuilding, a Byron Scott type would probably be better.

[DallasShalDune]

I think its amazing that Gil gained 15 lb in 3 weeks. I don't think I could do that if I tried. I'm pretty sit-on-my-butt all day, but it takes me months to gain weight, not a matter of weeks.

[20MexicanosIn1Van]

I think one of the primary reasons John Wall gets a lot of turnovers is that he doesn't have great handles.

[Pollinator]

Not having seen the game but looking at the box score, that was my initial thought as well. What accounted for the Cavs putting up so many points?

Cleveland guards were penetrating past our "perimeter defense" with absolute impunity. Hinrich and Arenas just weren't able to stay in front of their man. Wall was better, but maybe just by a little bit. This was especially bad in the 4th quarter where we got run off the court in the last 5 minutes, and this is something that's happened all year. The last two games we've given up 31 in the 4th q to both the Knicks and Cavs, we've also given up 40 to the 76ers and 29 to Atlanta. The only other game was 22 points scored by Orlando in the season open when the whole 2nd half was basically garbage time.

Everyone is pointing the finger at McGee for losing that rebound off a missed free throw to Sideshow Bob leading to a 3 ball for the Cavs, but even if he had gotten that rebound, with the way our guards were playing D we would've lost the game just like we've lost all the others down the stretch if we weren't already being blown the **** out.

[JonathanJoseph]

A few thoughts:

I'm not surprised nor disappointed in where the Wiz are. I still feel good about my 42 win prediction which accounted for a slow start. But now i know a little more.

It's been said by everyone, but Arstrong and Yi are what is killing this team right now. It's hard to fathom how bad Armstrong has been, i expected him to be at least competent but that doesn't appear to be the case. Yi is a complete enigma. In isolation, he appears to be able to play but when the lights are on he appears both completely lost on the court and soft as Charmin. I still have a little hope for Yi, not Armstong.

Blatche is getting better by the game. Feel great about where things are moving for him in bo shot selection and rebouncding, which are key. Blatche's passing is truly outstanding and he's not forcing shots like he was in the first 2 games. He'll be fine.

McGee also flashed some actual NBA defense yesterday. This would be a huge, huge development if he can continue to do that. His rebounding was also pretty good.

Wall looks like a rookie. As i said after game 1, let's just wait until 10 games under his belt before making any judgements. The kid is a stud, how quickly he can harness his talent is all that's left to find out. I'm betting sooner rather than later.

Thorton has played quite well, somewhat surprisingly. Looks like between Al and Howard, we are fine at the 3.

If Armstong continues to be awful, Seraphin may get a trial by fire sooner than anyone anticipated. But my guess is he needs a year of seasoning at least.

Didn't like Flips rotations at the end of the game (i would have gone Thornton at the 4), but there's a lot of overracting here. Of course the chemistry and rotations aren't set so of course the coaching looks bad. Remember how bad the team looked during the 16 game losing streak until they figured out the chemistry/rotations and then the same team looked very well coached. I suspect the same thing will happen here, again some time after the 10-15 game mark. This is why I'm still quite optimistic.

Last but not least, Gilbert Arenas. Let me say how GREAT it is to see Arenas on the court and note that I'm a fan who wants to see him end his career in Washington. Has anyone else noticed how incredibly well Arenas is playing? Sure he looks out of shape and the shot is a little off, but it's Gilberts floor game that has been truly outstanding.

Arenas seems to have figured out the mental part of the game to match his physical talent. Arenas had 2 turnovers due to dropped/missed passes by Wall/Blatche, but both coukd have easily been assists. Yi and Armstrong have dropped other nice passes from Arenas and others haven't finished. Arenas could very, very easily have about 6-7 assists and ZERO turnovers though 2 games. And Arenas is going out of his way to be the best possible teammate.

Really really looking forward to seeing the Wall/Arenas backcourt get a feel for each other. Could easily be the best backcourt in the NBA very soon and the Wizards are going to start winning games sooner than people think.

[LyricalRico]

Didn't like Flips rotations at the end of the game (i would have gone Thornton at the 4)

Interesting thought. I remember when we first acquired Al Thornton, I mused that he might be better as a backup PF than a starting SF (his role with the Clippers). But the problem is that I don't think you can play an undersized PF next to the options the Wiz have at C. Playing Thornton alongside a big, strong center would make more sense IMO.

[DallasShalDune]

Didn't like Flips rotations at the end of the game (i would have gone Thornton at the 4)

Interesting thought. I remember when we first acquired Al Thornton, I mused that he might be better as a backup PF than a starting SF (his role with the Clippers). But the problem is that I don't think you can play an undersized PF next to the options the Wiz have at C. Playing Thornton alongside a big, strong center would make more sense IMO.

I think it would have worked in this game, just because Hinrich and Thorton were on fire and Gil and Wall are game changers. Andray and Javale both were rebounding well, so it would not have hurt us for the last 6 min of the game to have Thorton in at 4 in my opinion.

[pineappleheadindc]

I went to the game last night, sat in the row right behind Bobby Dandridge. (That is one distinguished, put-together gentleman). Some of my in-person observations, though I haven't watched the game on DVR for replays and such.

1). It takes the Wiz so damn long to get into their sets. Guys stand around looking at each other way too much.

2) After Wall picked up an early charge driving to the cup, he was never the same aggressively. Dude, if you're walking the ball up the court to get into the set, we don't need you. Anybody can do that. You have a gift, speed. Use it.

3) Was Yi and Armstrong as bad as they looked to the naked eye? OMG.

4) Remember how there was a big controversy about who would play the 3 -- particularly as JoHo recovered from surgery. Ain't no controversy any more. In fact with post-return line-up of Thornton/Howard/Young, the three is perhaps our best position. Funny how things work out.

5) Everyone say goodbye to the "Dress Your Dog" concession on the 100 level. In fact, Uncle Ted has done a good job of upgrading the stands on the ground level. (I recommend the pulled pork sandwich from a new stand that has taken the place of the old, crappy, Chinese food stand).

6) I understand that we are rebuilding and want to see if we couldn't grow a "potential" big or two into starters. But Jeebus H. Christmas, let's look at our bigs after Andray and McGee. Yi, Armstrong, N'Daiye, Seraphin, Booker. Two of them are horrble "vets", the other three don't see the court. N'Daiye and Seraphin were inactive for the game last night (with Howard). You telling me we couldn't have kept James Singleton on a 1 year (or with team option for second year) minimum contract in place of just ONE of these dudes, above? Come on. Our roster weak spot is back-up 4, (sad to say) starting 5 and back-up 5. And a rookie PG who'll go thru lots of growing pains as he begins to get a hang of the professional game. The lack of back-up bigs really hurts us.

Pine

[20MexicanosIn1Van]

1). It takes the Wiz so damn long to get into their sets. Guys stand around looking at each other way too much.

This was especially bad with Kirk in New York. The first pass would be made with 10-12 second left in the shot clock.

[Pollinator]

I went to the game last night, sat in the row right behind Bobby Dandridge. (That is one distinguished, put-together gentleman). Some of my in-person observations, though I haven't watched the game on DVR for replays and such.

1). It takes the Wiz so damn long to get into their sets. Guys stand around looking at each other way too much.

2) After Wall picked up an early charge driving to the cup, he was never the same aggressively. Dude, if you're walking the ball up the court to get into the set, we don't need you. Anybody can do that. You have a gift, speed. Use it.

3) Was Yi and Armstrong as bad as they looked to the naked eye? OMG.

Re 1): If there's one thing that's been consistent about the Flip Saunders era, it's that no one seems to know WTF to do on offense. This is not just kids like McGee, it was true for supposed wily veterans like Gil and Butler last year. Because of that I think there has to be some failure of the coaching staff to communicate what they're trying to get the team to do.

2) Wall definitely has been hit with some charges and has had his pocket picked the last two games, and is a little tentative. But he will adjust. He is special.

3) I had high hopes for Yi going into this year, but at this point, I would just as soon trade him back to China for James Singleton. Seriously- can we do this? If we had Big Game James and Shaun Livingston playing like they did last year, we'd be 3-2, maybe 4-1 right now.

[willbcocks]

Another guy that won't play also is McGee.

This is going to happen all year[/size]. I refuse to watch many more games from here on out. The purpose of this season was to let the players ride out their problems in hopes they figure it out.

McGee 32 Minutes
Blatche 33 Minutes
Wall 43 minutes

Questioning the coach is obviously a part of evaluating the team, but he played the guys our future depends on big minutes tonight. Our PF is rounding into shape and our C has asthma and has never been a 35 mpg player. The backups spotted the frontcourt when they were out of shape. Armstrong came in because McGee was getting constantly abused in the 4th, losing his man repeatedly and allowing inside layups. Obviously Armstrong sucks, but Mcgee was sucking too. The options were suck or suck. The problem, on top of the normal developing team's dilemma of not being very good, is our GM signed **** players with cap space.

[willbcocks]

My evals keep coming in late as I was waiting to get the internet hooked up at my new place--got it today so hopefully I can see some games live.

Thoughts

Wall: Agree with Pine that he needs to bring the ball up faster, and that the team needs to get into its sets faster. He's making some silly mistakes, and needs to work on his handle as well as his jumper. The effort on defense also goes up and down during the game. I'm happy with him playing big minutes. We want him to be a superstar guard, so he will have to do it eventually. I think he will always be a 3.5/4 turnover/game player...but with 11 assists, that's fine with me.

Blatche: Great game, really solid on the boards and played good defense. Patient on offense, loved how excited he was after making a great assist to Mcgee. People have been doubting him on other boards thinking he'll slack off now that he's gotten paid, but I think he's a guy who, despite the posture, really wants to play good basketball. Very glad we have him inked for 5 years, he and Wall will be nasty on the pick and roll once the team has shooters to swing it to. If he rebounds every game with the attitude he had tonight, he will be very valuable to our team.

Thorton: Great game, love the energy, wish he could shoot the three. Until Wall develops a reliable shot, our offense is going to stagnate without three point shooters at BOTH the 2 and 3. For the moment Gil can be one of those guys, but we still need one more and Kirk is not the man for the job. I hope the guy earns a paycheck, from another team, for his hard work here, or better yet we can trade him for something.

Hinrich: also had a good game, finally. Same feeligns about him I have about Thorton--let's milk them for what they're worth and trade them near the deadline.

Mcgee: another solid game. Again losing his focus late in the game, but unlike last year, at least he has his focus most of the time he's out there.

Arenas: not getting around picks fast enough, though this is probably more an indictment of our picks then his movement. Wall gave him a lot of passes at his feet, also was wide open a couple times and no one gave him the ball. Legs look very awkward when moving to the side, especially noticeable on defense. He simply is not a quick player anymore. Still too early to evaluate Wall and Gil's tandem potential, but I am not seeing it at this point. Let's build the trade value.

Flip: Like others, I don't think the zone is working. Also, we are not a team of fast learners or veteranss--I think focusing on man defense and simplifying things would have a positive effect, particularly on McGee.

[JonathanJoseph]

My evals keep coming in late as I was waiting to get the internet hooked up at my new place--got it today so hopefully I can see some games live.

Thoughts

Wall: Agree with Pine that he needs to bring the ball up faster, and that the team needs to get into its sets faster. He's making some silly mistakes, and needs to work on his handle as well as his jumper. The effort on defense also goes up and down during the game. I'm happy with him playing big minutes. We want him to be a superstar guard, so he will have to do it eventually. I think he will always be a 3.5/4 turnover/game player...but with 11 assists, that's fine with me.

Blatche: Great game, really solid on the boards and played good defense. Patient on offense, loved how excited he was after making a great assist to Mcgee. People have been doubting him on other boards thinking he'll slack off now that he's gotten paid, but I think he's a guy who, despite the posture, really wants to play good basketball. Very glad we have him inked for 5 years, he and Wall will be nasty on the pick and roll once the team has shooters to swing it to. If he rebounds every game with the attitude he had tonight, he will be very valuable to our team.

Thorton: Great game, love the energy, wish he could shoot the three. Until Wall develops a reliable shot, our offense is going to stagnate without three point shooters at BOTH the 2 and 3. For the moment Gil can be one of those guys, but we still need one more and Kirk is not the man for the job. I hope the guy earns a paycheck, from another team, for his hard work here, or better yet we can trade him for something.

Hinrich: also had a good game, finally. Same feeligns about him I have about Thorton--let's milk them for what they're worth and trade them near the deadline.

Mcgee: another solid game. Again losing his focus late in the game, but unlike last year, at least he has his focus most of the time he's out there.

Arenas: not getting around picks fast enough, though this is probably more an indictment of our picks then his movement. Wall gave him a lot of passes at his feet, also was wide open a couple times and no one gave him the ball. Legs look very awkward when moving to the side, especially noticeable on defense. He simply is not a quick player anymore. Still too early to evaluate Wall and Gil's tandem potential, but I am not seeing it at this point. Let's build the trade value.

Flip: Like others, I don't think the zone is working. Also, we are not a team of fast learners or veteranss--I think focusing on man defense and simplifying things would have a positive effect, particularly on McGee.

Agreed on all but for 2 points.

1) None of the *&^% players acquired for cap space are signed for any longer than this season, save Hinrich. Either Yi picks it up quickly or EG will be very active at the trade deadline and he'll have lots of ammunition in expiring contracts. It's early and it appears that neither Armstrong nor Yi will work out here but it's not a coincidence that neither is signed for longer than this year. Let's stop acting like the GM's plan is bad because it isn't completed after 5 games.

2) Arenas may not look "quick", and I think he'll look quicker when he drops the 10 lbs, but he got everywhere on the floor he wanted with the basketball in his hands. Everywhere. Even if Arenas has lost 1.5 steps since the 06-07 version he still looks like he's got the mental side of the game figured out. And his defense looked pretty decent at times.

[willbcocks]

I think he will be able to make up for it with craftiness to some extent, but I disagree that he got everywhere he wanted to on the floor. He was not able to turn the corner and drive by his man with consistency and had trouble getting into the lane.

I don't think he will ever be able to attack the seams like he used to, but luckily he's a very good shooter so unlike a stackhouse type player, his game shouldn't decline too much if he's on the right team.

RE: Capspace and the **** players who use it up

EG did not compound the problem by signing **** players with long contracts, but nevertheless his contracts to Armstrong and Yi look like wasted cap space. Without expirings we would have had valuable cap space remaining, so that's a net negative, not a plus.

I think there weren't better options on the table so EG went for it, which is just like his MO. I think he should have been more patient.

[pineappleheadindc]

One last note about the Cleveland game.

It was really disappointing to see how many uncontested jump shots and cuts to the hoop we gave up. We wend under screens on their 3 point shooters a lot. Really frustrating.

[Hoopalotta]

I said it earlier, but it is interesting to note about the Yi trade that it is, in real dollar terms, just about the absolute cheapest move we could have made with the $3 million coming back. In cap space terms, no, but in real dollar terms the only thing cheaper would have been to sign someone to the rookie minimum (that calculation is based on assigning Quintin Ross no value).

Then throw in the fact that Yi and Wall have the same agent and Wall and Yao work with the same shoe company. I just find it very hard to beliyive that this doesn't work to Wall's advantage.

So, it seems unlikely that we just happened to inadvertently pull what borders on the cheapest possible roster move which also offers marketing opportunities for our incoming first overall pick.

Edit - beliyive is trademarked to some guy on the Nets board. I had to pay $.12 in royalties for this post.

[Wizardspride]

I think he will be able to make up for it with craftiness to some extent, but I disagree that he got everywhere he wanted to on the floor. He was not able to turn the corner and drive by his man with consistency and had trouble getting into the lane.

I'm in a wait-and-see-mode with Gilbert.

While I don't expect him to be quite a quick as he was in his All-star days, I think he'll recover much of it.

Consider the weight gain, not to mention the fact that he's played so little basketball over the last 3 years.

And I also suspect that the tendon in his ankle isn't fully healed yet.

But with that being said, I expect the start of his season to be much like last seasons.

Starting off slow and improving/becoming more explosive as the year goes on (minus the suspension, of course).

[Hoopalotta]

Will-B is well poised emotionally to brook with a rebuilding year.

Eye's on the prize, gentlemen - evaluation and development.

[JonathanJoseph]

I think he will be able to make up for it with craftiness to some extent, but I disagree that he got everywhere he wanted to on the floor. He was not able to turn the corner and drive by his man with consistency and had trouble getting into the lane.

I don't think he will ever be able to attack the seams like he used to, but luckily he's a very good shooter so unlike a stackhouse type player, his game shouldn't decline too much if he's on the right team.

RE: Capspace and the **** players who use it up

EG did not compound the problem by signing **** players with long contracts, but nevertheless his contracts to Armstrong and Yi look like wasted cap space. Without expirings we would have had valuable cap space remaining, so that's a net negative, not a plus.

I think there weren't better options on the table so EG went for it, which is just like his MO. I think he should have been more patient.

OK, so what big men were available on cheap 1 year contracts besides Yi/Armstrong? I think the answer is Josh Powell who went to Atlanta, but I'm not sure there are that many competent big men willing to sign for 1 year, veteran minimum contracts.

[Zonkerbl]

Gilbert's D still sucks. Big salty chocolate balls.