Wizards vs Pacers

[DallasShalDune]

His shot at greatness is doomed if he doesn't do just what you say, DallasShalDune. It is one thing to admit the mistakes post game, but Wall needs to process in the moment. Right now, I'm not sure if he really believes he isn't all that.

Wall will be in the league forever or until he ages a bunch, just on physical talent alone.

Actually that's not the case. Wall has nothing beyond his speed and as Nivek often points out, his physical peak is in a few years. If Wall loses his speed, either to age or injury, he'll be a sub-NBA caliber PG. Without his athleticism he's got very little going for him so far.

A short nagging injury to slow him down would be a blessing right now. They he would be forced to learn the rest of the PG game while he is still young enough to use that knowledge the rest of his career.

This is why I keep saying, sometimes being to athletic can be an impediment to developing basketball skills. Oh course unless you are wise at a young age. Look at MJ. He had all the athletic advantage in the world and he used it. But he also out smarted you. That is what made him truly amazing. MJ without the smarts would not have been near what we got to see him do on the court.

I agree with this. It is not impossible to correct this, though.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I rarely post and far be it from me to correct CCJ, who has the rare ability to see the bigger picture and how the pieces fit together, however this time I do need to comment.

Cosell called Ali truculent.

Instead of watching the next tank, I recommend Youtubing the Ali-Foreman fight. When we were kings was great, but watch the Ali-Foreman fight in its entirety. The fifth round is to me the best round of boxing ever (very inspirational for me in how faith and a plan can overcome almost anything) except for Hagler-Hearns round 1. Also, the Ali-Cosell dissecting the Foreman-Frazier fight on Youtube. Watch that before watching the Ali-Foreman. Incredible.

Yep. You're right. My bad. That'll teach me for going and using a big word.

Petulant, truculent, flatulent... All sound the same. Well, flatulent actually can sound pretty nasty.

w dumseld, I'm getting old... Thoughts are fusing together and I find myself more and more musing, but not always so amusing...

To channel my inner Clyde Frazier, "Rather than being reticent, I am reluctantly seeing myself growing more and more disconsolate. I guess that is better than being incontinent."

Scary stuff, but I'm just going to go full Dr Suess today, I guess.

[jivelikenice]

No more playing Wall's defense attorney tonight. I've said what I have to say:

1. Needs to play with shooters & no ball stoppers- Maybe Beal is the right pick? (I still prefer Davis or Robinson and the shooters through FA (i.e. Lee, Delfino, Fields, etc...). and I still think you're off on your assessment of Robinson's upside CCJ

2. Needs to take the bull by the horn. This is his team, not Crawford's and he needs to act like it.

3. Needs to get stronger.

4. Needs to work on the jumper.

5. Easily lets non calls frustrate him.

6. The team needs to get the right players and a good coach around Wall. I know D'antoni isn't a popular choice here but him or someone of his ilk is necessary

7. I absolutely do not think we'd be having this discussion if you substituted Young for Crawford in the deal.

[ST21]

I rarely post and far be it from me to correct CCJ, who has the rare ability to see the bigger picture and how the pieces fit together, however this time I do need to comment.

Cosell called Ali truculent.

Instead of watching the next tank, I recommend Youtubing the Ali-Foreman fight. When we were kings was great, but watch the Ali-Foreman fight in its entirety. The fifth round is to me the best round of boxing ever (very inspirational for me in how faith and a plan can overcome almost anything) except for Hagler-Hearns round 1. Also, the Ali-Cosell dissecting the Foreman-Frazier fight on Youtube. Watch that before watching the Ali-Foreman. Incredible.

epic post...

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

A short nagging injury to slow him down would be a blessing right now. They he would be forced to learn the rest of the PG game while he is still young enough to use that knowledge the rest of his career.

This is why I keep saying, sometimes being to athletic can be an impediment to developing basketball skills. Oh course unless you are wise at a young age. Look at MJ. He had all the athletic advantage in the world and he used it. But he also out smarted you. That is what made him truly amazing. MJ without the smarts would not have been near what we got to see him do on the court.

This could be posted in the thread "Does Smart Make Better Basketball".

I like watching NCAA ball because teams with inferior talent often outsmart big time schools. Princeton did it for years. I am sure that ball security, shot selection, positional rebounding, fundamentally sound offense and defense go farther to determine the winner in NCAA ball. UKs young guys dominated physically AND they played smart together.

That kid Anthony Davis plays very smart defense. He is not just another great athlete. I'm not old enough to remember Bill Russell, but the man is off the charts smart from a basketball standpoint. That is how he beat Chamberlain.

Wall can be a Chamberlain if he maximizes his gifts, but he's no Russell.

[hands11]

Totally agree that Wall and Crawford are a terrible pairing. Crawford is way too ball dominant of a guard to get the most out of Wall. We desperately need an intelligent, hard off-ball worker to pair with JW in the back court.

In the 12 games prior to the NY trade, Wall had 20+ points 6 times, and 10+ assists 5 times
In the 12 games since the NY trade, Wall's had 20+ points twice, and 10+ assists 3 times.

That being said, Wall does deserve some of the blame for his slump. He needs to be able to take a game by the scruff and drag himself to a good performance.

I really dont care how many points Wall gets. He is the PG. It is his first job to play smart when the ball is in his hands, get the ball to players that are hot and manage the team to a win. Fill in your scoring when needed. If that means he has zero pts, so be it. Crawford was hot. Crawford also had 3 assists. Same amount Wall had.

Blaming Walls bad play on Crawford seems to be reaching. I get why people are considering it. I just dont see it as valid. But we all have our opinions. No one is going to get proven right.

Also, before and after the trade numbers would mean more if Booker and Nene were playing.

Right now, Crawford and Kevin are the two volume scorers. Mason also. Wall wants to be in that group and he is forcing things because I think he is looking around and saying...really..crawford, Seraphin and the old man. Problem is, he doesnt have one offensive scoring skill that he can count on. He can shoot...sometimes. He can drive.. sometimes.. He has no 3 pt range.

Crawford has offensive moves he can rely on. So does KS. So does Mason.

Cook has more reliable offensive moves at this point then Wall does. Not hatting. Just telling it like it is. For a few games there, Wall was nailing the shot from the right side of the FT line. Now, not so much so. He doesnt get call when driving. He looks like Wall when he stopped getting the games. He is forcing it. He can fast break dunk. Well...Ves can do that as well. But that is not what I call an offensive skill you can count on.

Wall forced his game trying to be a reliant scorer. When he does that, he look really bad.

We were here before. He can not carry a team with his scoring. He needs to stop trying.

[The Fax]

I didn't watch the game but I saw that Kevin (Kah-veen) had a good night. Was he an impact player tonight or just garbage stats?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I didn't watch the game but I saw that Kevin (Kah-veen) had a good night. Was he an impact player tonight or just garbage stats?

He played Hibbert very well.

[hands11]

It is very frustrating, and it is completely true that his problems are mental. I'll differentiate Wall from McGee in that he is not completely oblivious. He knows his limitations (for the most part) and he knows that losing sucks. I didn't always get that feeling from McGee.

Yeah, but McGee wasn't a PG. A floor general has to be on top of things. John Wall is the leader of the team--a team captain. Wall doesn't play like he knows his limitations, IMO. I think he believes all he has to do is run faster and faster or jump higher and higher.

Wall is just a young guy. He is not the sharpest kid IMO. I think perhaps under the grind of the season he doesn't have the presence of mind to do what he needs to do and just slow down.

Going back to the mental aspect, what is it going to take for Wall to get it?

My answer.

More vets holding him accountable. His coach holding him accountable. And just as important, another viable option at PG. Bring in someone who will challenge him for minutes. Being the number 1 pick gets you paid. It guarantees you nothing more. If he can't handle the competition, then he isnt worth it.

I'm not saying you bring in a Nash, because Nash obviously needs to start so that would be a bad move. But bringing in someone at least as good as Shawn Livingston or better would be really smart for the team. Or draft someone better then Mack. Having a quality back up is something a good team should always do. It wouldn't be a direct threat, but it would apply pressure. And if it is a vet, maybe they can teach him something.

[hands11]

maybe Wall is trying to get Ernie fired. If thats the case, God bless him

If you are not joking..

Stop with the excuses for Wall. Its ok to be objective and just judge him for what he is doing.

He isnt injured.
He isnt tanking
He isnt trying to get anyone fired.

[The Fax]

Good to see at least one of these young guys are starting to develop. Vesely on the other hand


A look at the rest of our schedule:

@ Detroit
@ New Jersey
@ Charlotte
vs Orlando
@ New York
vs Cleveland
@ Chicago
vs Milwaukee
@ Miami
vs Charlotte
@ Cleveland
vs Miami

I see a max of 3 more wins (Jersey, Charlotte, Detroit)

[JonathanJoseph]

+1

Coaching. Players who play to Wall's strengths and can spread the floor, as opposed to just furthering the lane-clog.

So we've now gone through 2 coaches, one of whom is known to be a PG guru. Wall has started alongside Arenas, Hinrich, Young, Crawford, Al Thornton, Yi, Rashard Lewis, Mo Evans, Blatche, Booker, Seraphin, Nene, McGee, Josh Howard, Singleton and Vesely now.

Somehow all of the players and both of the coaches, it's all of their faults that the results are always the same, not Walls. All of those players, save Nene and Seraphin, have played some of the worst basketball of their careers playing with Wall/Wizards.

At some point, you've gone through enough variables to figure out the common denominator.

[hands11]

Hornets are a good team now. they got alot of their talent back and Eric Gordon is playing well so far this game. McGee continues to be awful in Denver

Crab. I missed Gil again.

3-6 0 assists 2 rebounds 8 pts in 11 minutes.

4 personal fouls

Looks like maybe he was having a problem defending.

[ST21]

+1

Coaching. Players who play to Wall's strengths and can spread the floor, as opposed to just furthering the lane-clog.

So we've now gone through 2 coaches, one of whom is known to be a PG guru. Wall has started alongside Arenas, Hinrich, Young, Crawford, Al Thornton, Yi, Rashard Lewis, Mo Evans, Blatche, Booker, Seraphin, Nene, McGee, Josh Howard, Singleton and Vesely now.

Somehow all of the players and both of the coaches, it's all of their faults that the results are always the same, not Walls. All of those players, save Nene and Seraphin, have played some of the worst basketball of their careers playing with Wall/Wizards.

At some point, you've gone through enough variables to figure out the common denominator.

what are you suggesting, get rid of wall after initial rookie contract is up?

[jivelikenice]

Totally agree that Wall and Crawford are a terrible pairing. Crawford is way too ball dominant of a guard to get the most out of Wall. We desperately need an intelligent, hard off-ball worker to pair with JW in the back court.

In the 12 games prior to the NY trade, Wall had 20+ points 6 times, and 10+ assists 5 times
In the 12 games since the NY trade, Wall's had 20+ points twice, and 10+ assists 3 times.

That being said, Wall does deserve some of the blame for his slump. He needs to be able to take a game by the scruff and drag himself to a good performance.

I really dont care how many points Wall gets. He is the PG. It is his first job to play smart when the ball is in his hands, get the ball to players that are hot and manage the team to a win. Fill in your scoring when needed. If that means he has zero pts, so be it. Crawford was hot. Crawford also had 3 assists. Same amount Wall had.

Blaming Walls bad play on Crawford seems to be reaching. I get why people are considering it. I just dont see it as valid. But we all have our opinions. No one is going to get proven right.

Also, before and after the trade numbers would mean more if Booker and Nene were playing.

Right now, Crawford and Kevin are the two volume scorers. Mason also. Wall wants to be in that group and he is forcing things. Problem is, he doesnt have one offensive scoring skill that he can count on. He can shoot...sometimes. He can drive.. sometimes.. He has no 3 pt range.

Crawford has offensive moves he can rely on. So does KS. So does Mason.

Cook has more reliable offensive moves at this point then Wall does. Not hatting. Just telling it like it is. For a few games there, Wall was nailing the shot from the right side of the FT line. Now, not so much so. He doesnt get call when driving. He looks like Wall when he stopped getting the games. He is forcing it. He can fast break dunk. Well...Ves can do that as well. But that is not what I call an offensive skill you can count on.

Wall forced his game trying to be a reliant scorer. When he does that, he look really bad.

We were here before. He can not carry a team with his scoring. He needs to stop trying.

Wall averages 16.7 ppg & 42.7% shooting on 13.7 shots per game.
As a stater Crawford averages 16.8 ppg & 41.3% shooting on 15.6 shots per game.

I don't care about who has nicer looking moves, i care more about who scores more in the flow of the game and in a team concept. Wall doesn't when he's pressing but for the most part does. Crawford's offense comes outside of a team concept.

[JonathanJoseph]

+1

Coaching. Players who play to Wall's strengths and can spread the floor, as opposed to just furthering the lane-clog.

So we've now gone through 2 coaches, one of whom is known to be a PG guru. Wall has started alongside Arenas, Hinrich, Young, Crawford, Al Thornton, Yi, Rashard Lewis, Mo Evans, Blatche, Booker, Seraphin, Nene, McGee, Josh Howard, Singleton and Vesely now.

Somehow all of the players and both of the coaches, it's all of their faults that the results are always the same, not Walls. All of those players, save Nene and Seraphin, have played some of the worst basketball of their careers playing with Wall/Wizards.

At some point, you've gone through enough variables to figure out the common denominator.

what are you suggesting, get rid of wall after initial rookie contract is up?

I don't know about "get rid of", but I think it's time that we stop building the franchise around the obviously flawed premise that Wall is a franchise player. You can't solve a problem until you admit there is one.

I was in favor of packaging him with McGee for a blockbuster, but too late for that. I'd be willing to move him for a lottery pick in this deep draft.

[7-Day Dray]

+1

Coaching. Players who play to Wall's strengths and can spread the floor, as opposed to just furthering the lane-clog.

So we've now gone through 2 coaches, one of whom is known to be a PG guru. Wall has started alongside Arenas, Hinrich, Young, Crawford, Al Thornton, Yi, Rashard Lewis, Mo Evans, Blatche, Booker, Seraphin, Nene, McGee, Josh Howard, Singleton and Vesely now.

Somehow all of the players and both of the coaches, it's all of their faults that the results are always the same, not Walls. All of those players, save Nene and Seraphin, have played some of the worst basketball of their careers playing with Wall/Wizards.

At some point, you've gone through enough variables to figure out the common denominator.

I don't care if Flip is a PG guru. Flip's/Witt's system is horrible for Wall. It's a jumpshooting system that doesn't require penetration from the PG. The system doesn't play to Wall's strengths.

[tontoz]

NOH beats Denver for their 14th win.

[jivelikenice]

+1

Coaching. Players who play to Wall's strengths and can spread the floor, as opposed to just furthering the lane-clog.

So we've now gone through 2 coaches, one of whom is known to be a PG guru. Wall has started alongside Arenas, Hinrich, Young, Crawford, Al Thornton, Yi, Rashard Lewis, Mo Evans, Blatche, Booker, Seraphin, Nene, McGee, Josh Howard, Singleton and Vesely now.

Somehow all of the players and both of the coaches, it's all of their faults that the results are always the same, not Walls. All of those players, save Nene and Seraphin, have played some of the worst basketball of their careers playing with Wall/Wizards.

At some point, you've gone through enough variables to figure out the common denominator.

Arenas- Juts got back in the league
Hinrich- Playing horribly in Atl
Young- backup and shooting poorly with Paul as his pg
Crawford- not an ideal starter
Al thornton- not in the nba
Yi- End of the bench in Dallas
Rashard Lewis- Injured and was ineffective before he even got here. career likely over
Mo Evans- A vet minimum guy who doesn't play
Blatche- Nothing to say. His resume speaks for itself
Nene- played what, 5 games with Wall?
Singleton & Vesely- Rough rookie seasons
Howard- played 18 games last year and Wall was hurt for a number of them

I mean what were you trying to accomplish with this list? Show how bad the talent they've put around him has been or show how he's had no continuity with who he's played with?

[jivelikenice]

I don't know about "get rid of", but I think it's time that we stop building the franchise around the obviously flawed premise that Wall is a franchise player. You can't solve a problem until you admit there is one.

I was in favor of packaging him with McGee for a blockbuster, but too late for that. I'd be willing to move him for a lottery pick in this deep draft.

Another lotto pick? Why, so we can pull the plug on that rookie early too? You're not at least willing to let him have a regular offseason with whomever the new coach will be or at least give him a 3rd season? Is the need for instant gratification that great?