Wizards Training Camp 2020-21

[payitforward]

Well, overall, whether it's a good idea must depend on how good our best defensive players actually are. Duh.

[DCZards]

His defense is better than Brown and Avdija? Not disagreeing, I just didn’t notice that last season. Didn't watch much of the bubble though.

His on ball defense at the guard position is better than Brown. He doesn't have the size to be a switchable 1 through 4 defender like Avdija.

Except in obvious cases, it's extremely difficult to assess defense individually (though, clearly, the worse the team is overall the worse the individuals are -- duh). The key thing is that Brooks praised Robinson for his man defense during the bubble. Mostly, that's where the positivity on Robinson as a defender has come from. I'm not questioning that positivity, btw.

I know you don't value it as much as stats, but don't rule out the "eye test" in determining a player's ability to play good perimeter D. It's not hard to see when a defender is moving his feet well, staying in front of his man, and making it difficult for his opponent to dribble or pass.

[NatP4]

Sounds like no Beal or Westbrook Sunday night. No Lopez or Bertans either.

[dckingsfan]

I don't think I'm saying what you think I'm saying. I'm saying if you want to win, you go with the best players at their position. You can mix and match and sprinkle other players in as necessary, but our best players to me seem to be the above. If you want to argue that Rui is better than Bertans, you'll have to show me why. I was making a case for the synergy of this line up, offensively. With this line up we can score with anyone, and outscore most.

Defensively, frankly, I don't think we have a line-up. The team didn't draft with that in mind and has not built the team with defense as a priority. We have some guys who can do some stuff. But when our best defensive line has Bonga and Robinson in the discussion, and Lopez I guess, well, we are missing more than a few elements. Troy Brown I suppose, who is a nice team defender but does get beat by more athletic players, he's no stopper nor intimidating. He rebounds well for his size. Neto who is a slight defensive upgrade from last years 3rd string PG.

So. We are hoping for defensive improvement from two factors: Russ snatches more rebounds, so we give up fewer 2nd chances. Whomever we already have will get better due to experience. Okay three factors: we are no longer playing a washed up former star on the perimeter.

Could we be better on defense? Sure, those are not insignificant factors. We have better depth too inasmuch as the guys we do have are more playable if they have improves. Also a year of continuity on a team that had massive roster turnover ought to help with team defense and understanding roles.

But our D is not what will win us games. The above line-up prevents Russ from defaulting to his least efficient shot, and gives him lethal kick-out options and players to reliably credit him with assists if teams load up to stop his interior attack.

Check his shot stats. He is prolific and dangerous at the rim, sub par if he settles for a jumper. If you are paying a guy 40 million dollars a year you want to maximize what he does well. He balled out when Houston went to a 5 out system. WIth a line that has Beal Bertans and Bryant next to Russ, we have 4 of 5 who are able to hit from long range. Whomever else we add to that mix ought to either be able to hit a ranged shot, or set smart picks and screens to wall off attack lanes for Russ or spring Beal/Bertans free for a jumper. Rui, for whatever talents he has, does not yet read the floor and play the team game by instinct. Maybe playing alongside Russ will develop that skillset? IF so I can see the reasoning to get him seasoning with the starters. But it's not a strength. Yeah, if he starts hitting 3pt shots at a high rate then he is more playable, but his team game is not yet there, and his rebounding is subpar for a Big. Okay our future is higher if he gets good, so run with the starters may be key. And Deni being already more skilled may mean he does well with the 2nd line crew. But. If wins are what we are hunting, maximizing our starters skill set seems to be the way to go.

I just don't buy the argument that we should just accept that our defense sucks and not worry about addressing it with better defensive personnel. It's not like there's a floor on sucking. Sucking even worse still costs you points. And if detracting from the defense costs you more points than improving the offense helps, they you are still coming out behind in the equation.

The way I see it, there are diminishing returns for each additional good offensive player on the floor. Going from 4 good offensive players to 5 good offensive players isn't going to be that dramatic of an improvement on offense. A well designed offense can put the 5th best offensive player in a very limited role where he can just catch-and-shoot from the corner. However, removing our only legitimately good defender from the floor (Bonga) could be a significant detraction from our defense. Having one good defender on the floor is MUCH better than having none. He can guard the opposition's best wing, which means he plays an integral role in nearly every defensive possession. There's a reason Bonga had such great on/off numbers last year.

If Brown or Avdija prove to be nearly as effective defensively as Bonga, then, sure, start them. But if they don't, I think we're better off with Bonga even though Bonga can't do much on offense except shoot a slow-release corner 3.

I think your point stands on Bonga. If he just hits a reasonable percentage of his 3s (I am guessing .370) he will be fine. But he does one thing poorly on offense. He turns the ball over at a pretty high rate (like Mahinmi bad). He needs to fix that one aspect of his game and he will be fine in the offense as constructed. So yeah, he needs to start and guard the best wing on the other team.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Let’s just play already.

Not sure I see the benefit of not playing Beal and Russ, if even for a few minutes in the first preseason game.

Play them each 10 minutes to knock off some rust and gain a little understanding of each other.

Then play the bench for the remainder.

[gambitx777]

Well there might be some camp battles they can't decide on this could determine who gets a job and who gets canned.

Let’s just play already.

Not sure I see the benefit of not playing Beal and Russ, if even for a few minutes in the first preseason game.

Play them each 10 minutes to knock off some rust and gain a little understanding of each other.

Then play the bench for the remainder.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[closg00]

Let’s just play already.

Not sure I see the benefit of not playing Beal and Russ, if even for a few minutes in the first preseason game.

Play them each 10 minutes to knock off some rust and gain a little understanding of each other.

Then play the bench for the remainder.

We should see a lot of the young guys tomorrow

[DCZards]

This is from The Athletic (excerpts):

Looking at the 5 players vying for the Wizards’ last starting spot

By Fred Katz

Earlier this week, Scott Brooks dropped a new name while discussing candidates to earn the Wizards’ fifth starting spot: Dāvis Bertāns.

The team may have just paid Bertāns $80 million, but the suggestion remained just a tad surprising. Brooks had already mentioned earlier in training camp that there would be an open competition to win the starting three spot, indicating Troy Brown, Deni Avdija, Isaac Bonga and Jerome Robinson were the candidates. No suggestion of Bertāns — until now.

BERTANS
Bertāns will play with the first unit often. The offensive potential is too enticing. But they don’t have to start with it, considering the fit alongside Hachimura and Bryant is a little wonky.

If the Wizards want to lean all the way into offense, Bertāns would be the choice to start – though we may not have any clarity on his role during the preseason. He arrived late to training camp and still hasn’t gone through a full practice with the team. Brooks said his first one could come as soon as Saturday.

BONGA
Can we discuss how the Wizards’ defense was 9.9 points per 100 possessions better while Bonga was playing last year, according to Ben Falk’s superb website, Cleaning the Glass? And that’s after you remove garbage time, the meaningless minutes that could skew those kinds of numbers. Can we mention that stat places him in the 97th percentile of all defenders in the NBA?

Can we acknowledge that the Wizards forced way more turnovers when Bonga was playing? And can we throw out there that ESPN’s real plus/minus stat, an on/off metric that adjusts for the other players on the floor, rated the NBA’s three best defensive small forwards last year as some guy named LeBron James, another little-known up-and-comer who goes by Kawhi Leonard, and — you guessed it — Isaac Bonga?

BROWN
If the fifth starter is about whichever of the young guys plays the best during training camp, then Brown has a solid chance. Heck, he could be the favorite. He is only 21 years old, has gotten better after each break in the schedule (rookie to sophomore year, then in the bubble), and has a growing feel for both sides of the ball. But there’s another deciding factor here.

But the fit matters. So, if the Wizards choose him as the starter, it will be for at least one of these three reasons:
1. He improved his 3-point shot over the offseason.
2. He put on some bulk and is manning up big wings with more muscle than before.
3. They want as much playmaking in the starting lineup as possible (though that’s probably the least likely of the three, given how much facilitating Beal and Westbrook will do).

AVDIJA
Fit enters the conversation right away with the 19-year-old the Wizards selected with the No. 9 pick, as well.

General manager Tommy Sheppard declared on draft night that Avdija didn’t need to overhaul his shooting form, despite 3-point and free-throw struggles in Israel, though he acknowledged the coaching staff may need to make some tweaks.

“I think his mechanics are good right now. It’s just, he needs reps,” Brooks said. “He’s a 19-year-old kid that needs reps. He’s made shots every day he’s practiced … He’s just gonna have to continue. It’s a work in progress.”

Let’s take Brooks at his word, considering that’s all we have right now.

If he’s correct, that’s an encouraging review for the Wizards’ future. It would mean Avdija really doesn’t need to forget everything he already knows about shooting just to learn new fundamentals. But it doesn’t sound like his jumper will be ready to go when the regular season opens in less than two weeks, either. If Avdija needs reps, he’s not going to get enough of them by Dec. 23.

And that’s fine, by the way. The expectation shouldn’t be that a 19-year-old rookie starts. But the Wizards need someone in this role who can either wreak havoc off the ball, like Bertāns, or help them the most defensively, like Bonga. A teenage rookie is rarely ever helpful on defense, especially while going against starters.

ROBINSON
There’s no question Robinson looked better in the bubble, where he started making shots for the first time as a bench spark plug. But context is important.

Think of the types of looks he’d get off the bench compared to in the starting lineup. He heavily relied on jumpers in the bubble, where the Wizards let him run pick-and-rolls and look for his own shot while operating inside the second unit. And he took jumpers to the extreme.

He attempted 94 shots in Orlando. Darn near 40 percent of them (35 total) were 2-pointers not in the restricted area. It’s one thing if it’s an instant-offense reserve plays that way (though the coaching staff still pushed him to overcome that shot selection). It’s another for your fifth starter to do it.

He’s feisty defending the ball, but the Wizards have mostly used him to man guards instead of big wings, which he’d have to do often if he were consistently alongside Beal and Westbrook.

[nate33]

This is from The Athletic (excerpts):

Looking at the 5 players vying for the Wizards’ last starting spot

By Fred Katz

Earlier this week, Scott Brooks dropped a new name while discussing candidates to earn the Wizards’ fifth starting spot: Dāvis Bertāns.

The team may have just paid Bertāns $80 million, but the suggestion remained just a tad surprising. Brooks had already mentioned earlier in training camp that there would be an open competition to win the starting three spot, indicating Troy Brown, Deni Avdija, Isaac Bonga and Jerome Robinson were the candidates. No suggestion of Bertāns — until now.

BERTANS
Bertāns will play with the first unit often. The offensive potential is too enticing. But they don’t have to start with it, considering the fit alongside Hachimura and Bryant is a little wonky.

If the Wizards want to lean all the way into offense, Bertāns would be the choice to start – though we may not have any clarity on his role during the preseason. He arrived late to training camp and still hasn’t gone through a full practice with the team. Brooks said his first one could come as soon as Saturday.

BONGA
Can we discuss how the Wizards’ defense was 9.9 points per 100 possessions better while Bonga was playing last year, according to Ben Falk’s superb website, Cleaning the Glass? And that’s after you remove garbage time, the meaningless minutes that could skew those kinds of numbers. Can we mention that stat places him in the 97th percentile of all defenders in the NBA?

Can we acknowledge that the Wizards forced way more turnovers when Bonga was playing? And can we throw out there that ESPN’s real plus/minus stat, an on/off metric that adjusts for the other players on the floor, rated the NBA’s three best defensive small forwards last year as some guy named LeBron James, another little-known up-and-comer who goes by Kawhi Leonard, and — you guessed it — Isaac Bonga?

BROWN
If the fifth starter is about whichever of the young guys plays the best during training camp, then Brown has a solid chance. Heck, he could be the favorite. He is only 21 years old, has gotten better after each break in the schedule (rookie to sophomore year, then in the bubble), and has a growing feel for both sides of the ball. But there’s another deciding factor here.

But the fit matters. So, if the Wizards choose him as the starter, it will be for at least one of these three reasons:
1. He improved his 3-point shot over the offseason.
2. He put on some bulk and is manning up big wings with more muscle than before.
3. They want as much playmaking in the starting lineup as possible (though that’s probably the least likely of the three, given how much facilitating Beal and Westbrook will do).

AVDIJA
Fit enters the conversation right away with the 19-year-old the Wizards selected with the No. 9 pick, as well.

General manager Tommy Sheppard declared on draft night that Avdija didn’t need to overhaul his shooting form, despite 3-point and free-throw struggles in Israel, though he acknowledged the coaching staff may need to make some tweaks.

“I think his mechanics are good right now. It’s just, he needs reps,” Brooks said. “He’s a 19-year-old kid that needs reps. He’s made shots every day he’s practiced … He’s just gonna have to continue. It’s a work in progress.”

Let’s take Brooks at his word, considering that’s all we have right now.

If he’s correct, that’s an encouraging review for the Wizards’ future. It would mean Avdija really doesn’t need to forget everything he already knows about shooting just to learn new fundamentals. But it doesn’t sound like his jumper will be ready to go when the regular season opens in less than two weeks, either. If Avdija needs reps, he’s not going to get enough of them by Dec. 23.

And that’s fine, by the way. The expectation shouldn’t be that a 19-year-old rookie starts. But the Wizards need someone in this role who can either wreak havoc off the ball, like Bertāns, or help them the most defensively, like Bonga. A teenage rookie is rarely ever helpful on defense, especially while going against starters.

ROBINSON
There’s no question Robinson looked better in the bubble, where he started making shots for the first time as a bench spark plug. But context is important.

Think of the types of looks he’d get off the bench compared to in the starting lineup. He heavily relied on jumpers in the bubble, where the Wizards let him run pick-and-rolls and look for his own shot while operating inside the second unit. And he took jumpers to the extreme.

He attempted 94 shots in Orlando. Darn near 40 percent of them (35 total) were 2-pointers not in the restricted area. It’s one thing if it’s an instant-offense reserve plays that way (though the coaching staff still pushed him to overcome that shot selection). It’s another for your fifth starter to do it.

He’s feisty defending the ball, but the Wizards have mostly used him to man guards instead of big wings, which he’d have to do often if he were consistently alongside Beal and Westbrook.

Translation: Bonga should start. It's a no-brainer.

[NatP4]

But I thought real plus minus was “bogus”

[SUPERBALLMAN]

This is from The Athletic (excerpts):

Looking at the 5 players vying for the Wizards’ last starting spot

By Fred Katz

Earlier this week, Scott Brooks dropped a new name while discussing candidates to earn the Wizards’ fifth starting spot: Dāvis Bertāns.

The team may have just paid Bertāns $80 million, but the suggestion remained just a tad surprising. Brooks had already mentioned earlier in training camp that there would be an open competition to win the starting three spot, indicating Troy Brown, Deni Avdija, Isaac Bonga and Jerome Robinson were the candidates. No suggestion of Bertāns — until now.

BERTANS
Bertāns will play with the first unit often. The offensive potential is too enticing. But they don’t have to start with it, considering the fit alongside Hachimura and Bryant is a little wonky.

If the Wizards want to lean all the way into offense, Bertāns would be the choice to start – though we may not have any clarity on his role during the preseason. He arrived late to training camp and still hasn’t gone through a full practice with the team. Brooks said his first one could come as soon as Saturday.

BONGA
Can we discuss how the Wizards’ defense was 9.9 points per 100 possessions better while Bonga was playing last year, according to Ben Falk’s superb website, Cleaning the Glass? And that’s after you remove garbage time, the meaningless minutes that could skew those kinds of numbers. Can we mention that stat places him in the 97th percentile of all defenders in the NBA?

Can we acknowledge that the Wizards forced way more turnovers when Bonga was playing? And can we throw out there that ESPN’s real plus/minus stat, an on/off metric that adjusts for the other players on the floor, rated the NBA’s three best defensive small forwards last year as some guy named LeBron James, another little-known up-and-comer who goes by Kawhi Leonard, and — you guessed it — Isaac Bonga?

BROWN
If the fifth starter is about whichever of the young guys plays the best during training camp, then Brown has a solid chance. Heck, he could be the favorite. He is only 21 years old, has gotten better after each break in the schedule (rookie to sophomore year, then in the bubble), and has a growing feel for both sides of the ball. But there’s another deciding factor here.

But the fit matters. So, if the Wizards choose him as the starter, it will be for at least one of these three reasons:
1. He improved his 3-point shot over the offseason.
2. He put on some bulk and is manning up big wings with more muscle than before.
3. They want as much playmaking in the starting lineup as possible (though that’s probably the least likely of the three, given how much facilitating Beal and Westbrook will do).

AVDIJA
Fit enters the conversation right away with the 19-year-old the Wizards selected with the No. 9 pick, as well.

General manager Tommy Sheppard declared on draft night that Avdija didn’t need to overhaul his shooting form, despite 3-point and free-throw struggles in Israel, though he acknowledged the coaching staff may need to make some tweaks.

“I think his mechanics are good right now. It’s just, he needs reps,” Brooks said. “He’s a 19-year-old kid that needs reps. He’s made shots every day he’s practiced … He’s just gonna have to continue. It’s a work in progress.”

Let’s take Brooks at his word, considering that’s all we have right now.

If he’s correct, that’s an encouraging review for the Wizards’ future. It would mean Avdija really doesn’t need to forget everything he already knows about shooting just to learn new fundamentals. But it doesn’t sound like his jumper will be ready to go when the regular season opens in less than two weeks, either. If Avdija needs reps, he’s not going to get enough of them by Dec. 23.

And that’s fine, by the way. The expectation shouldn’t be that a 19-year-old rookie starts. But the Wizards need someone in this role who can either wreak havoc off the ball, like Bertāns, or help them the most defensively, like Bonga. A teenage rookie is rarely ever helpful on defense, especially while going against starters.

ROBINSON
There’s no question Robinson looked better in the bubble, where he started making shots for the first time as a bench spark plug. But context is important.

Think of the types of looks he’d get off the bench compared to in the starting lineup. He heavily relied on jumpers in the bubble, where the Wizards let him run pick-and-rolls and look for his own shot while operating inside the second unit. And he took jumpers to the extreme.

He attempted 94 shots in Orlando. Darn near 40 percent of them (35 total) were 2-pointers not in the restricted area. It’s one thing if it’s an instant-offense reserve plays that way (though the coaching staff still pushed him to overcome that shot selection). It’s another for your fifth starter to do it.

He’s feisty defending the ball, but the Wizards have mostly used him to man guards instead of big wings, which he’d have to do often if he were consistently alongside Beal and Westbrook.

Translation: Bonga should start. It's a no-brainer.

Bonga!!!


2nd unit probably is (my guess) Lopez, Bertans, Avdija, Troy Brown Jr, Ish.

[J-Ves]

This is from The Athletic (excerpts):

Translation: Bonga should start. It's a no-brainer.

Bonga!!!


2nd unit probably is (my guess) Lopez, Bertans, Avdija, Troy Brown Jr, Ish.

You don’t think Mo Wagner gets rotational minutes early on?

[prime1time]

Those Bonga stats are inflated because he didn’t play normal starter minutes. If you remember last year, Bonga played very bizarre minutes. So sorry if I don’t take on/off based defensive numbers are good.

[nate33]

Those Bonga stats are inflated because he didn’t play normal starter minutes. If you remember last year, Bonga played very bizarre minutes. So sorry if I don’t take on/off based defensive numbers are good.

There's nothing "inflated" about them. It's true that he played relative few minutes for a starter, so we don't know if those on/off numbers would hold up if he played 35 minutes a night. But nobody is asking him to play 35 minutes a night.

There's no reason he can't play the same role this year as last year, where he starts the first 6 minutes of each half and gives maximum defensive effort to try and prevent the other team from getting into a rhythm. Then Bertans comes in to play a few minutes with the starters and then lead the second unit.

[prime1time]

Those Bonga stats are inflated because he didn’t play normal starter minutes. If you remember last year, Bonga played very bizarre minutes. So sorry if I don’t take on/off based defensive numbers are good.

There's nothing "inflated" about them. It's true that he played relative few minutes for a starter, so we don't know if those on/off numbers would hold up if he played 35 minutes a night. But nobody is asking him to play 35 minutes a night.

There's no reason he can't play the same role this year as last year, where he starts the first 6 minutes of each half and gives maximum defensive effort to try and prevent the other team from getting into a rhythm. Then Bertans comes in to play a few minutes with the starters and then lead the second unit.

Why aren't we asking him to play 35 minutes? Do you know his on/off numbers? Also, what do we do with Advija and Brown Jr? Which player shouldn't play?

[dckingsfan]

Those Bonga stats are inflated because he didn’t play normal starter minutes. If you remember last year, Bonga played very bizarre minutes. So sorry if I don’t take on/off based defensive numbers are good.

There's nothing "inflated" about them. It's true that he played relative few minutes for a starter, so we don't know if those on/off numbers would hold up if he played 35 minutes a night. But nobody is asking him to play 35 minutes a night.

There's no reason he can't play the same role this year as last year, where he starts the first 6 minutes of each half and gives maximum defensive effort to try and prevent the other team from getting into a rhythm. Then Bertans comes in to play a few minutes with the starters and then lead the second unit.

Why aren't we asking him to play 35 minutes? Do you know his on/off numbers? Also, what do we do with Advija and Brown Jr? Which player shouldn't play?

I will give you one reason (but it is a bit of a strawman). Lower minutes allows him to play with greater intensity. My guess, Avdija and Bertans take up the rest of the minutes.

The real question is who gets the backup SG minutes. There are a couple of sub-questions in my mind.

1) Will Brooks finally reduce Beal's load to something reasonable?
2) Will Brown or Robinson get the backup minutes?
3) What happens to Mathews?

But alas, this is kind of a first world basketball problem (especially in the COVID era).

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Translation: Bonga should start. It's a no-brainer.

Bonga!!!


2nd unit probably is (my guess) Lopez, Bertans, Avdija, Troy Brown Jr, Ish.

You don’t think Mo Wagner gets rotational minutes early on?

My personal preference would be Wagner over Lopez. I just don't expect that. Most likely it's moot because I'm sure they'll be plenty of PT to go around with the condensed schedule, back to backs, foul trouble, players out with covid protocols, big men usually get injured at some point. Look at all the time missed last season between Bryant and Wagner.

[payitforward]

His on ball defense at the guard position is better than Brown. He doesn't have the size to be a switchable 1 through 4 defender like Avdija.

Except in obvious cases, it's extremely difficult to assess defense individually (though, clearly, the worse the team is overall the worse the individuals are -- duh). The key thing is that Brooks praised Robinson for his man defense during the bubble. Mostly, that's where the positivity on Robinson as a defender has come from. I'm not questioning that positivity, btw.

I know you don't value it as much as stats, but don't rule out the "eye test" in determining a player's ability to play good perimeter D. It's not hard to see when a defender is moving his feet well, staying in front of his man, and making it difficult for his opponent to dribble or pass.

Sure! & I didn't mean to question what Brooks said about Jerome.

[payitforward]

Sounds like no Beal or Westbrook Sunday night. No Lopez or Bertans either.

I hope this means we'll see a lot of Childs, Winston & Mathews.

[payitforward]

...Bonga.... turns the ball over at a pretty high rate....

?? I have him at less than 1.85 TOs per 40 minutes. What am I missing?