Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

[gambitx777]

So can we trade Rui and Deni for Ben Simmons?

Dinwiddie Holiday
Beal Neto
KCP Kispert
Simmons Bertans Kuzma
Gafford Harrell

We have plenty of shooting to make that work.

Absolutely not.
Simmons is has nuke levels of go away heat right now. I dare say X-Pac heat for you wrestling fans in the house. He's a no touch no go im not trading for him unless I'm desperate. We are not. We have a star who likes being here. He is included in every move we make. He's safe here, and we have a good team right now. I'm not trading for Simmons at all if I'm the wizards.

The kings, the pacers, maybe the blazers if Dane implodes on them. Lakers if they keep loosing. Teams that are desperate. Not us at the moment.

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[nate33]

So can we trade Rui and Deni for Ben Simmons?

Dinwiddie Holiday
Beal Neto
KCP Kispert
Simmons Bertans Kuzma
Gafford Harrell

We have plenty of shooting to make that work.

If there's a trade to be made, it's gotta be Dinwiddie and filler for Simmons. Philly is going to need a primary perimeter creator who can at least plausibly be considered a "star".

It also puts Simmons in the role of primary ball handler and offense initiator on our team, the role he is best suited to play.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

More seriously though. If I'm the GM of this team I'm shopping Kuzma pretty hard right now. I think even before the season started there where teams that had interest in him, but with him starting and playing well his trade stock might sky rocket. He's also signed long term which teams covet. Personally I'm not a big fan of his and think his play might be fools gold to start the season.

Absolutely. I mean, the better a guy plays the more sense it makes to trade him. Plus, nothing makes more sense than to suggest trading a guy right after he won a funking game for us! No better time, really.

Oh please. You know damn well there's enough sample size to know exactly what type of player Kuzma is. Two games doesn't change that.

The one thing I do not know is how he will perform in his role as a Wizard over time.

Kyle Kuzma coming out of Utah was a player who I had barely heard of who absolutely destroyed his rookie summer league. I thought highly of rookie Kuzma. IIRC he was a teammate of Kobe on a bad team but was a good player. Much better than the last two seasons with Lebron in different roles and diminished numbers.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Absolutely. I mean, the better a guy plays the more sense it makes to trade him. Plus, nothing makes more sense than to suggest trading a guy right after he won a funking game for us! No better time, really.

Oh please. You know damn well there's enough sample size to know exactly what type of player Kuzma is. Two games doesn't change that.

I’m getting a Trevor Ariza vibe from Kuzma. I remember how hot he started in his second season with us. We all thought he’d return to career norms BUT he stayed hot. Not just that year but in future years with the Rox.

Small sample size, certainly. But, with a new squad, a new coach and more confidence, could he have turned a corner?

Stay tuned.

That year that the Wizards swept Toronto in the playoffs Trevor Ariza was a brilliant player! TREVOR was IMO even better than Wizards Paul Pierce

Kuzma is I think about to have his career season.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

More seriously though. If I'm the GM of this team I'm shopping Kuzma pretty hard right now. I think even before the season started there where teams that had interest in him, but with him starting and playing well his trade stock might sky rocket. He's also signed long term which teams covet. Personally I'm not a big fan of his and think his play might be fools gold to start the season.

But what if it isn’t fool’s good? What if playing for a different team, with different teammates, with a different role, and for a different coach changes Kuzma’s career trajectory in a positive way? It wouldn’t be the first time that happened in the NBA.

I said before the season that Kuzma was the off-season pickup that I was most intrigued by. I still am. Kyle is 26 years old and on a good contract. It would be a mistake, imo, to trade him at this point. I want to see more.

Could turn out that he’s a keeper.

Lord, have mercy! Is this the damn Apocalypse or what? Since when have I ever been in such violent agreement with you?





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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

So can we trade Rui and Deni for Ben Simmons?

Dinwiddie Holiday
Beal Neto
KCP Kispert
Simmons Bertans Kuzma
Gafford Harrell

We have plenty of shooting to make that work.

Can we wait?

Ben Simmons has his own contract and his own set of agendas and moods with his game, and he might throw things off things off.

If the Wzards win at about a 50 game pace I would say pump the brakes on Ben until Washington can bend the Sixers over in a trade. Sorry that's a bit graphic

I would think Philadelphia Philadelphia would give up a whole lot more if Beal were involved. SIMMONS plus....? I like Paul Reed and they have multiple good swing players.



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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

So can we trade Rui and Deni for Ben Simmons?

Dinwiddie Holiday
Beal Neto
KCP Kispert
Simmons Bertans Kuzma
Gafford Harrell

We have plenty of shooting to make that work.

Morey has stated he won’t trade Simmons for anything less than a difference maker. And even if he ends up trading him away for role players it’s going to be for win now guys not developing players.

Beal

It's a contract year.

I Would love to see Bradley win a championship... But only if the wizards come out with a hell of a good trade that eventually makes them much better than Philadelphia Sooner than later

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[payitforward]

So can we trade Rui and Deni for Ben Simmons?....

If there's a trade to be made, it's gotta be Dinwiddie and filler for Simmons....

Right. & even that presents problems, b/c sending "filler" means we have to take back some "filler" to complete our roster.

Hence, given where we are w/ respect to the luxury tax, we'd have to send out at least 1 other player with a substantial salary & take back Simmons plus someone cheap.

One example, the simplest I can think of: Dinwiddie & Bertans for Simmons & Paul Reed (or substitute one of Springer, Milton, Joe or Bassey in place of Reed).

In fact, if the 2d player we sent were not Bertans, it looks to me like we'd have to send 3 players & take 3 back to make a trade work.

[lastemp3ror]

What is the knock against Kuzma, his defense? I remember in his rookie year he was looking like the steal of the draft. Then Lebron and AD showed up. I can't speak to his defense, but that year he looked like a killer on the offensive side before he went to the bench in favor of Lebron and Davis.

[GoneShammGone]

I gotta say, I'm getting nervous about our center situation. What do people think is going to happen when Thomas Bryant comes back? I'm worried that with the way Trez is playing, the Wizards will look to shop TB if he proves he's healthy. Here's my problem: both Trez and TB are UFAs at the end of the year. Trez is a great guy to have on your team when he's only costing you $10M, but if the Wizards commit to him going forward, its going to cost them a lot more than that (especially if he keeps up his outstanding production from the first two games). It would be a "so Wizards" move to acquire Harrell, have him give play one good year, and then lock him up to a fat contract so that they get the privilege of overpaying for his declining years. He's already 28 remember?

TB, on the other hand, is 24. He's more versatile than Trez, and will cost a whole lot less going forward. If he gets healthy, I think he's a better bet to give value for the money over his next contract. I think the smart move would be to shop Trez and see if they can get some younger assets or picks for him.

But the better Trez plays, the more the crowd rallys around him, the more I see the Wizards going in his direction. What do other people think? Am I being too pessimistic here? Should I just enjoy the Trez-show and not worry? (Don't get me wrong, the guy is fun to watch!)

[nate33]

I gotta say, I'm getting nervous about our center situation. What do people think is going to happen when Thomas Bryant comes back? I'm worried that with the way Trez is playing, the Wizards will look to shop TB if he proves he's healthy. Here's my problem: both Trez and TB are UFAs at the end of the year. Trez is a great guy to have on your team when he's only costing you $10M, but if the Wizards commit to him going forward, its going to cost them a lot more than that (especially if he keeps up his outstanding production from the first two games). It would be a "so Wizards" move to acquire Harrell, have him give play one good year, and then lock him up to a fat contract so that they get the privilege of overpaying for his declining years. He's already 28 remember?

TB, on the other hand, is 24. He's more versatile than Trez, and will cost a whole lot less going forward. If he gets healthy, I think he's a better bet to give value for the money over his next contract. I think the smart move would be to shop Trez and see if they can get some younger assets or picks for him.

But the better Trez plays, the more the crowd rallys around him, the more I see the Wizards going in his direction. What do other people think? Am I being too pessimistic here? Should I just enjoy the Trez-show and not worry? (Don't get me wrong, the guy is fun to watch!)

Harrell won't cost more than $10M.

We've see a steady devaluation of the center position. Nobody pays centers more than MLE money unless they're the type of guy who can stay on the floor in a playoff game. Basically, they have to be elite defensively (Gobert, Adebayo, Capela, Aayton) or exceptional offensively as a primary option (Jokic, Embiid, Towns).

The real issue is that we can't afford to keep both Harrell and Bryant. To avoid wasting an asset, Sheppard needs to figure out which guy he wants to keep and trade the other guy by the Trade Deadline.

[payitforward]

Partly it's, "which one do I want to keep?" Partly it's, "which one brings me a better return?"

In principle, I see your point, nate -- having committed to Gafford, it's questionable to keep two other guys both of whom are clearly very good players. There just aren't enough minutes to get the benefit you'd want from paying all three guys. Why not turn one of them into an equally good player at a position where we have more minutes to give.

OTOH, the other point you make -- that Centers have been devalued financially -- might make it possible/useful to keep all three guys. This too is at least partly dependent on how much value one can get for either guy in a trade.

Moreover, in this discussion "keep" just means "re-sign." We don't have to trade either guy this year. & that's especially true, because at least we know that these are two players who are actually good. Retain them, & you are very likely to have solid tradable assets for a while.

The same cannot be said of Kispert or Deni or Rui or Todd or even Bertans. We don't know that we have building blocks in all -- or in any, really -- of those guys, & the problem is especially concerning in the case of Bertans, because we have so much $$ committed to him over so many years. Probably, I should include Kuzma & KCP in that group.

(note that the above is NOT meant as a criticism of all or any of those guys -- just one of the factors to consider in thinking about who to trade & what to trade for).

IOW, I see your point. But I think next roster moves for the Wizards is a pretty complex question.

Not to say that I couldn't make a nice long list of guys I'd be happy to take straight up for Harrell or for Bryant -- everyone should be available to trade. It's all about the deal.

[Dat2U]

So can we trade Rui and Deni for Ben Simmons?

Dinwiddie Holiday
Beal Neto
KCP Kispert
Simmons Bertans Kuzma
Gafford Harrell

We have plenty of shooting to make that work.

If there's a trade to be made, it's gotta be Dinwiddie and filler for Simmons. Philly is going to need a primary perimeter creator who can at least plausibly be considered a "star".

It also puts Simmons in the role of primary ball handler and offense initiator on our team, the role he is best suited to play.

Philly has truly mismanaged the situation and wrecked his value. Probably the best asset they were offered all summer, Malcolm Brogdon is no longer available. Not sure if McCollum is available because thet'd probably have taken that deal by now. Dinwiddie may be too much to offer at this point. My new favorite saying, yesterday's prices ain't today's prices... Bertans, Kuz & Holiday?

[mhd]

So can we trade Rui and Deni for Ben Simmons?

Dinwiddie Holiday
Beal Neto
KCP Kispert
Simmons Bertans Kuzma
Gafford Harrell

We have plenty of shooting to make that work.

If there's a trade to be made, it's gotta be Dinwiddie and filler for Simmons. Philly is going to need a primary perimeter creator who can at least plausibly be considered a "star".

It also puts Simmons in the role of primary ball handler and offense initiator on our team, the role he is best suited to play.

Philly has truly mismanaged the situation and wrecked his value. Probably the best asset they were offered all summer, Malcolm Brogdon is no longer available. Not sure if McCollum is available because thet'd probably have taken that deal by now. Dinwiddie may be too much to offer at this point. My new favorite saying, yesterday's prices ain't today's prices... Bertans, Kuz & Holiday?

Cleveland could offer Love+Sexton+future first. Not a horrible offer depending on what Philly thinks of Sexton.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I gotta say, I'm getting nervous about our center situation. What do people think is going to happen when Thomas Bryant comes back? I'm worried that with the way Trez is playing, the Wizards will look to shop TB if he proves he's healthy. Here's my problem: both Trez and TB are UFAs at the end of the year. Trez is a great guy to have on your team when he's only costing you $10M, but if the Wizards commit to him going forward, its going to cost them a lot more than that (especially if he keeps up his outstanding production from the first two games). It would be a "so Wizards" move to acquire Harrell, have him give play one good year, and then lock him up to a fat contract so that they get the privilege of overpaying for his declining years. He's already 28 remember?

TB, on the other hand, is 24. He's more versatile than Trez, and will cost a whole lot less going forward. If he gets healthy, I think he's a better bet to give value for the money over his next contract. I think the smart move would be to shop Trez and see if they can get some younger assets or picks for him.

But the better Trez plays, the more the crowd rallys around him, the more I see the Wizards going in his direction. What do other people think? Am I being too pessimistic here? Should I just enjoy the Trez-show and not worry? (Don't get me wrong, the guy is fun to watch!)

Harrell won't cost more than $10M.

We've see a steady devaluation of the center position. Nobody pays centers more than MLE money unless they're the type of guy who can stay on the floor in a playoff game. Basically, they have to be elite defensively (Gobert, Adebayo, Capela, Aayton) or exceptional offensively as a primary option (Jokic, Embiid, Towns).

The real issue is that we can't afford to keep both Harrell and Bryant. To avoid wasting an asset, Sheppard needs to figure out which guy he wants to keep and trade the other guy by the Trade Deadline.

They can keep both if they trade Bradley Beal and/or Davis Bertans.

Both Harrell and Bryant might be more valuable than DB. Neither will cost more, and Gafford is already locked up. Trez is YOUNG at 28 and Bryant is YOUNGER. Both might be long-term keepers.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Partly it's, "which one do I want to keep?" Partly it's, "which one brings me a better return?"

In principle, I see your point, nate -- having committed to Gafford, it's questionable to keep two other guys both of whom are clearly very good players. There just aren't enough minutes to get the benefit you'd want from paying all three guys. Why not turn one of them into an equally good player at a position where we have more minutes to give.

OTOH, the other point you make -- that Centers have been devalued financially -- might make it possible/useful to keep all three guys. This too is at least partly dependent on how much value one can get for either guy in a trade.

Moreover, in this discussion "keep" just means "re-sign." We don't have to trade either guy this year. & that's especially true, because at least we know that these are two players who are actually good. Retain them, & you are very likely to have solid tradable assets for a while.

The same cannot be said of Kispert or Deni or Rui or Todd or even Bertans. We don't know that we have building blocks in all -- or in any, really -- of those guys, & the problem is especially concerning in the case of Bertans, because we have so much $$ committed to him over so many years. Probably, I should include Kuzma & KCP in that group.

(note that the above is NOT meant as a criticism of all or any of those guys -- just one of the factors to consider in thinking about who to trade & what to trade for).

IOW, I see your point. But I think next roster moves for the Wizards is a pretty complex question.

Not to say that I couldn't make a nice long list of guys I'd be happy to take straight up for Harrell or for Bryant -- everyone should be available to trade. It's all about the deal.

Yes, every single player should be on the trading block for the right offer.

I happen to think the Wizards are stacked at the center position even though we could use a big body like we used to have with Robin Lopez or Alex Len.

What is keeping Washington from being Elite right now if we don't have a superior small forward. Not yet anyway. Can I see what Paul Reed can do I think he could probably play small forward and be really great because his defense is superior and his energy is through the roof.

Jalen Smith is not a small forward but he is wasting away in Phoenix and I'm thinking there's probably a good trade in there for him somewhere. Thomas Bryant is currently better by far than Jalen Smith, but Thomas could really help Phoenix win a championship. Phoenix and Atlanta have a bunch of good wings.

[J-Ves]

So can we trade Rui and Deni for Ben Simmons?

Dinwiddie Holiday
Beal Neto
KCP Kispert
Simmons Bertans Kuzma
Gafford Harrell

We have plenty of shooting to make that work.

If there's a trade to be made, it's gotta be Dinwiddie and filler for Simmons. Philly is going to need a primary perimeter creator who can at least plausibly be considered a "star".

It also puts Simmons in the role of primary ball handler and offense initiator on our team, the role he is best suited to play.

Philly has truly mismanaged the situation and wrecked his value. Probably the best asset they were offered all summer, Malcolm Brogdon is no longer available. Not sure if McCollum is available because thet'd probably have taken that deal by now. Dinwiddie may be too much to offer at this point. My new favorite saying, yesterday's prices ain't today's prices... Bertans, Kuz & Holiday?

Morey is going down with the ship. Unless the league forces his hand or a team trades the farm for Simmons there will be a stalemate for a looong time. It will likely will go beyond this year's trade deadline. That seems like bad GMing to me, but what do I know. As an outsider looking in I'm going to enjoy the dysfunction.

[NatP4]

There’s just no way we would trade Dinwiddie for Simmons. Philly is at the point where they have to just take whatever they can get and move on. With that contract and that toxic situation, I really think Avdija, Harrell, and Kuzma could get it done, but I would try really hard to throw in Rui instead or Avdija.

Give them the chance to acquire a former top 10 pick and a couple useful role players and get out of a horrible mismanaged mess. It’s a trade I really think the wiz need to make to add to our talent level and upside. We have the roster composition to make it work with floor spacers like KCP, Kispert, and Bertans. Even Dinwiddie is looking very capable off the ball so far. Once Bryant is back, he and Simmons could be extremely effective at the 4&5 together while keeping the floor spaced.

[nate33]

I really think Avdija, Harrell, and Kuzma could get it done, but I would try really hard to throw in Rui instead or Avdija.

It doesn't get it done because it's not what Philly needs, even if it is the most they can get talentwise. What in the world are they going to do with three more big men? They need a difference-maker on the perimeter.

[payitforward]

A trade is, first & foremost, a financial transaction. It has to meet certain financial requirements, & it also has to leave both parties in a viable financial situation to move forward.

On the assumption that a trade of Rui, Harrell & Kuzma for Simmons would meet the financial requirements (would work in the trade machine), it would still fail to meet the second criterion I mention above.

Why? Because it would leave us in luxury tax territory with only 13 players. & that's before we turn to the question of extending Bradley Beal.

Is this clear? We cannot trade 3 players for Ben Simmons. Not possible. Suggesting it is a waste of time.

Here's a trade that would work: send out Davis Bertans, KCP & Thomas Bryant. Take back Simmons, George Niang & Shake Milton.

Note that I'm not suggesting we actually do this. I'm just pointing to a trade that would be possible financially.

edit: I'm also not suggesting that Philly would do this trade.