Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 8

[nate33]

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lol

The Knicks are going to screw up again.

[Kanyewest]

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lol

The Knicks are going to screw up again.

Funny thing is that my friend who is a Knicks fans is excited about this trade.

[WallToWall]

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Hmmm.... I wonder if they are looking for a 3rd team to add some more to the package. Maybe TS can get our pick back from the Knicks if he can get the Wizards in on the action.

[FAH1223]

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[FAH1223]

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[gambitx777]

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Hmmm.... I wonder if they are looking for a 3rd team to add some more to the package. Maybe TS can get our pick back from the Knicks if he can get the Wizards in on the action.

We don't really have much to offer. We don't have any large one year salaries to use to help Utah dump money, we don't have any large TPE, we don't have cap room. The only expiring contracts that we could use are Rui and Burton, but they can't be traded together.

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[payitforward]

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Sigh.... One of my guys....

[payitforward]

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lol

The Knicks are going to screw up again.

Donovan Mitchell is a good player, but I can't see how he's worth all those young players plus 6 R1 picks. Not even close.

[FAH1223]

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[montestewart]

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Maybe that trade will be enshrined as the trade equivalent of the Jon Koncak FA deal.

[Rafael122]

The Johnson deal is what I expect a contract for Rui to look like.

[payitforward]

The Johnson deal is what I expect a contract for Rui to look like.

Well, that would be a disaster! Keldon Johnson is really good -- i.e. he's actually shown how good a player he is & can be.

Rui is nothing like that....

[badinage]

The Johnson deal is what I expect a contract for Rui to look like.

Well, that would be a disaster! Keldon Johnson is really good -- i.e. he's actually shown how good a player he is & can be.

Rui is nothing like that....

He’s a pretty good player. Not $20 million good, and there’s the rub. If you’re a great team, he’s wonderful to have. But he won’t get you to great. And yet — you have to pay him the $20 million if you’re the Spurs, because otherwise you have no chance to put yourself into contention to become good.

[gambitx777]

The Johnson deal is what I expect a contract for Rui to look like.

Well, that would be a disaster! Keldon Johnson is really good -- i.e. he's actually shown how good a player he is & can be.

Rui is nothing like that....

He’s a pretty good player. Not $20 million good, and there’s the rub. If you’re a great team, he’s wonderful to have. But he won’t get you to great. And yet — you have to pay him the $20 million if you’re the Spurs, because otherwise you have no chance to put yourself into contention to become good.

Something like 4 years and 48 -52 mill is fair for Rui that puts him some where in the 11-14 mill a year range a kuz level contract seems fair for him.

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[FAH1223]

The Johnson deal is what I expect a contract for Rui to look like.

Well, that would be a disaster! Keldon Johnson is really good -- i.e. he's actually shown how good a player he is & can be.

Rui is nothing like that....

Exactly.

Ain't no way Rui is getting 4 years $80M unless he legit breaks out.

Rui is worth below MLE money. Probably 4 years $36M would be what he SHOULD get.

What I think HE WILL GET is 4 years $48M on the open market when he's a RFA. Or if Tommy offers him that.

With that said, they should trade him. He's nothing more than a backup PF.

[payitforward]

The Johnson deal is what I expect a contract for Rui to look like.

Well, that would be a disaster! Keldon Johnson is really good -- i.e. he's actually shown how good a player he is & can be.

Rui is nothing like that....

He’s a pretty good player. Not $20 million good, and there’s the rub. If you’re a great team, he’s wonderful to have. But he won’t get you to great. And yet — you have to pay him the $20 million if you’re the Spurs, because otherwise you have no chance to put yourself into contention to become good.

This is the kind of discussion that usually can't be brought to resolution -- if anything the tendency is for the gap in points of view to widen. I'd like to avoid that.

Is Keldon Johnson "$20 million good?" I don't know, because no one can know. He's still only 22 years old -- there were players in the draft 3+ weeks ago who are older than he is! & he has been very good. He's been better, for example, than his college teammate who went higher than he did in 2019, another 1-year player -- namely Tyler Herro. Significantly better.

To me the way you know whether Johnson is worth what he's going to be paid has nothing to do w/ the question "is he going to get you to great." I don't think there's ever been a player other than Wilt who could "get you to great" on his own. To put it another way, you don't "get to great" by looking for a single player who can get you there & under-valuing outstanding players like Johnson.

When I compare him to other players making his kind of money, he looks like pretty good value -- though at the same time I can't deny that the way NBA salaries are climbing lately is jaw-dropping. Makes it hard to feel like you have an objective grasp on anything.

I'd a lot rather have Johnson at $20m than Duncan Robinson at $17m, for example. OTOH, Derrick Jones, Jr. at $3+m is a lot bigger bargain!

Or think about Kristaps Porzingis, who will make $34m this year. The last year he managed 1500 minutes was 5 years ago!

Above all, the idea that (based on what he's done so far) Rui Hachimura is worth that kind of $$ -- no, make that worth 1/2 that much money! -- is ludicrous. Based on what he's done so far, Rui is not worth what he's making this year & not worth re-signing. Which doesn't mean we won't re-sign him, of course (& he may get a lot better this year: we all hope that's what happens, at least!).

God knows what Ted will pay him! Given what he just gave Brad.

There's a good point. The 22 year old Keldon Johnson looks like a whole lot better deal at $20m a year over the next several years than Brad at $45m a year heading into his 30s!

I just noticed that, on his new deal, Johnson will be SA's highest paid player! Wow....

[Dat2U]

Well, that would be a disaster! Keldon Johnson is really good -- i.e. he's actually shown how good a player he is & can be.

Rui is nothing like that....

He’s a pretty good player. Not $20 million good, and there’s the rub. If you’re a great team, he’s wonderful to have. But he won’t get you to great. And yet — you have to pay him the $20 million if you’re the Spurs, because otherwise you have no chance to put yourself into contention to become good.

Something like 4 years and 48 -52 mill is fair for Rui that puts him some where in the 11-14 mill a year range a kuz level contract seems fair for him.

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He's a terrible rebounder, passer & defender. His awareness is still very poor. He hasn't proven to be a guy that will help you win games. I'm not extending that guy at all. I'm hoping a team buys the scoring chops so the Wiz can recoup a little value in a trade.

[gambitx777]

He’s a pretty good player. Not $20 million good, and there’s the rub. If you’re a great team, he’s wonderful to have. But he won’t get you to great. And yet — you have to pay him the $20 million if you’re the Spurs, because otherwise you have no chance to put yourself into contention to become good.

Something like 4 years and 48 -52 mill is fair for Rui that puts him some where in the 11-14 mill a year range a kuz level contract seems fair for him.

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He's a terrible rebounder, passer & defender. His awareness is still very poor. He hasn't proven to be a guy that will help you win games. I'm not extending that guy at all. I'm hoping a team buys the scoring chops so the Wiz can recoup a little value in a trade.

What stats do you have that show he's a bad defender because he isn't. He's not a terrific rebound no. But he can score.

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[Rafael122]

The thing with Rui is, IMO, it feels like we've got half a canvas of him. His rookie season, 2019-2020, world shuts down and his season is cut short. Then his 2nd season, its like you see what he can do and you start getting excited, i.e. is the 3 point shot real? Then his 3rd year, the year where I think most guys on a rookie contract kinda put it all together but he still only plays half a season. But he shot 44% from 3, that's kinda crazy for a guy his size.

So, I agree 4/$80 mil is a bit high, but I can definitely see 4/$64 mil around there. He's only 23, he's been playing organized ball for what...8 years? I'm not completely writing him off yet.

[nate33]

The thing with Rui is, IMO, it feels like we've got half a canvas of him. His rookie season, 2019-2020, world shuts down and his season is cut short. Then his 2nd season, its like you see what he can do and you start getting excited, i.e. is the 3 point shot real? Then his 3rd year, the year where I think most guys on a rookie contract kinda put it all together but he still only plays half a season. But he shot 44% from 3, that's kinda crazy for a guy his size.

So, I agree 4/$80 mil is a bit high, but I can definitely see 4/$64 mil around there. He's only 23, he's been playing organized ball for what...8 years? I'm not completely writing him off yet.

I think there is some truth to this.

Rui has played just 147 NBA games. Effectively, this will be his 3rd season, not his 4th. He has shown glimpses of lots of different talents: a deadly 3-point shot, good man defense, and shot creation ability (albeit not quite efficient enough); he just hasn't done it all at the same time with enough consistency. I think it's plausible that he puts it all together this year and becomes a pretty good basketball player. For that reason, I'd be disinclined to trade him right now for whatever paltry return he is likely to get on the trade market.

It's also plausible that he is what he is: a guy who just has such a poor motor and poor feel for the game that he'll never rebound well enough or play good enough help D to help you win. I'd like to give him at least another 50 games to find out, and re-evaluate at the Trade Deadline.