WOJ/SHAMS: Nuggets trade Barton and Morris for KCP and Ish Smith

[gambitx777]

I wanted ish gone for sure ! I really like Morris too. Just interested in seeing what's next.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[payitforward]

I posted this a few weeks back, but to recap...

Monte is solid. From the posts on this thread, people have the right expectations. He will give Washington steady and utterly unspectacular play from the PG spot. (Thankfully that is a massive improvement for you!)

Barton is the unholy combination of Nick Young and Jamal Crawford. ...Count all the times he makes the completely wrong decision ...you will get to see Jokic making diplomatically constipated expressions while trying not to murder a teammate on live television.

One more once, as Duke Ellington used to say: who cares?

1. Expiring veteran KCP would not have been with us after this year.
2. Expiring veteran Will Barton will not be with us after this year.
3. Monte Morris is a "massive improvement" over Ish Smith.

End of story.

[payitforward]

That's a 36 win team if I've ever seen one....

Wait... you are predicting a 1-win improvement from last year? Optimism! I'm impressed!

[TGW]

I might be the only one but I didn't want either of those guys in a rotation so I'm happy.

you will change your tune qcuikly once you see Barton in action

Between him, Kuzma, and Davis, you have some real ballstoppers on the roster. WUJ is going to be pulling his hair out.

[prime1time]

I don't know enough about Morris to have an opinion. But on the surface, I think he's a backup pg and I hope he doesn't start. A starting backcourt of Morris and Beal is not big enough to defend in this league.

Agree that why Delon Wright or a trade to get Brogdon makes more sense.

No, I wouldn't say so. & I don't see it as being close in either case.

Delon Wright is a UFA & will get paid way more than we can afford. He's also 30 years old; I imagine he would have zero appetite to come play out his career for a bottom-dweller like the Wizards. In short, he's completely irrelevant.

Malcolm Brogdon is 6 months younger than Wright; that's good. He's also guaranteed close to $70m over the next 3 seasons. Yet he is a serious injury risk. He played 1200 minutes this year. Brogdon has never played a full season in his career.

But, even if we could afford either of these guys, & even if Brogdon were likely to remain healthy for the first time in his career, why would we want to pay either of these two guys the amount of $ it would take to secure them? What's the benefit?

Are we on the verge of contending? We went 35-47 last year. After our 10-3 burst out of the gate, we closed the season 25-44. With Porzingis on the line-up, we went 7-10.

As to Monte Morris -- please explain your reasoning for calling him a backup pg. What does "on the surface" mean? He started for a team that is one whole hell of a lot better than the Washington Wizards have been... ever. & he played extremely well too.

Not only that, but his contract is good enough that it allows us to acquire another player in free agency.

This was a very nice move by Tommy Sheppard.

We won't be able to guard opposing wings effectively because our two starting guards are 6'3 or below. Any time we have to switch we will be put in tough position because big wings like Tatum will just be able to shoot over our guards. With Beal being 6'3 at the very least our guard starting next to him needs to be larger.

[Illuminaire]

One more once, as Duke Ellington used to say: who cares?

1. Expiring veteran KCP would not have been with us after this year.
2. Expiring veteran Will Barton will not be with us after this year.
3. Monte Morris is a "massive improvement" over Ish Smith.

End of story.

Once more I'll say: who the hell are you talking to?

1. I didn't talk about KCP, or his longterm future with the team.
2. But Barton might be with you this year.
3. Yeah I explicitly stated that in my post.

You didn't respond to the core content of my post. But you sure did quote me and then bullet list what you seem to think are gotcha refutations.

I guess the real answer to the zinger question you led off with is "Not PIF" - at least, you don't care enough to even read and understand the posts you're replying to. Gets old man. Gets real old.

[tontoz]

Denver was 7.6 pts per 48 better with Morris on the court last year.

http://www.82games.com/2122/21DEN5.HTM#onoff

[DCZards]

Agree that why Delon Wright or a trade to get Brogdon makes more sense.

No, I wouldn't say so. & I don't see it as being close in either case.

Delon Wright is a UFA & will get paid way more than we can afford. He's also 30 years old; I imagine he would have zero appetite to come play out his career for a bottom-dweller like the Wizards. In short, he's completely irrelevant.

Malcolm Brogdon is 6 months younger than Wright; that's good. He's also guaranteed close to $70m over the next 3 seasons. Yet he is a serious injury risk. He played 1200 minutes this year. Brogdon has never played a full season in his career.

But, even if we could afford either of these guys, & even if Brogdon were likely to remain healthy for the first time in his career, why would we want to pay either of these two guys the amount of $ it would take to secure them? What's the benefit?

Are we on the verge of contending? We went 35-47 last year. After our 10-3 burst out of the gate, we closed the season 25-44. With Porzingis on the line-up, we went 7-10.

As to Monte Morris -- please explain your reasoning for calling him a backup pg. What does "on the surface" mean? He started for a team that is one whole hell of a lot better than the Washington Wizards have been... ever. & he played extremely well too.

Not only that, but his contract is good enough that it allows us to acquire another player in free agency.

This was a very nice move by Tommy Sheppard.

We won't be able to guard opposing wings effectively because our two starting guards are 6'3 or below. Any time we have to switch we will be put in tough position because big wings like Tatum will just be able to shoot over our guards. With Beal being 6'3 at the very least our guard starting next to him needs to be larger.

The trade improved significantly the Zards weakest link: PG. That’s what’s most important.

KCP’s D will certainly be missed. Still time to figure out the other stuff. Like a defensive wing.

For the time being, I’ll take my chances with Rui and Deni on Tatum.

[montestewart]

Monte is solid.

That’s my main takeaway.

[dckingsfan]

...Morris... seems like Holiday 2.0. This feels like treading water at best.

Very much hoping I am wrong.

You have nothing to worry about! Just as you hope, you are altogether wrong.

Do you look at the numbers players put up? How can you possibly compare Morris to Holiday?

Meanwhile... this gave me reason to look at Holiday's numbers after the trade to Phoenix.

Dang! He played 358 minutes for them & was very good! Great to see that -- I'm always happy when these kids succeed!

Ha! Too funny. My take is that I won't be wrong and that a Morris/Beal backcourt won't be all that. Let's let this one age...

It does look like we won't have that big free agent point guard signing... so there is that. Now, if we had only purchased and taken a couple of 2nd round PGs to develop.

I guess the trade is a net positive if we play our youngsters. If Barton plays substantial minutes - not so much, IMO.

[80sballboy]

Here is another Grade of the trade from ESPN Insider

Denver Nuggets: C-

More than anything -- even the luxury tax implications, though we'll get to them -- this deal looks like the Nuggets are betting on the health of Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr., both of whom are slated to return from long-term injuries next season.

With this trade, Denver goes from having a backup point guard in Morris capable of starting (he started 74 of his 75 games played last season with Murray sidelined following ACL surgery) and a combo wing in Barton capable of sliding to small forward to replace Porter to a depth chart that looks awfully thin at both positions.


If Murray and Porter are the players we saw in 2020-21, adding Caldwell-Pope alongside them could strengthen the Nuggets' best five-man lineup. If they miss extended periods, Denver is less equipped to replace them, pending additional moves this summer.

On the positive side, Caldwell-Pope looks like a great fit with the Nuggets as the new version of what Gary Harris once was in Denver. He's developed the "3" part of the 3-and-D equation, hitting 39.5% of his 3-pointers over the past three seasons at moderate volume (5.3 attempts per game in 2021-22).

Caldwell-Pope is also a capable on-ball defender, allowing the Nuggets to cross-match him and Murray, putting Caldwell-Pope on the better opposing guard. Using Second Spectrum tracking data and my analysis of lineup data, 29% of Caldwell-Pope's individual matchups last season were against players who primarily saw action at point guard, as compared to 18% for Barton.

Although Barton and Caldwell-Pope have similar size (Barton is listed an inch taller but 23 pounds lighter), Barton has been much more likely to play small forward over the course of his career. Lineups with Caldwell-Pope at small forward will be a bit small to match the West's bigger combo forwards, taking away a bit of lineup versatility for coach Michael Malone.

Additionally, Denver undoubtedly downgraded in the point guard half of this trade, but this could be a precursor to adding another this summer. The Nuggets have been linked to Vasilije Micic, the MVP of the last two EuroLeague final fours, whose NBA rights are held by the Oklahoma City Thunder. If so, however, that means paying $4.7 million to the well-traveled Smith (who could suit up for his record 13th NBA franchise if he sticks with the Nuggets) as a third point guard.

All of which brings us to the financial element. After completing this trade, Denver begins free agency right at the projected luxury tax line by virtue of saving nearly $5 million in salary on the heels of the recent trade shedding JaMychal Green's $8.2 million.

Because the Nuggets have just 11 players under contract, including first-round picks Christian Braun and Peyton Watson, they'll surely go into the tax to start the season by filling out the roster. Given what's at stake for Denver with two-time reigning MVP Nikola Jokic in his prime, I hope the Nuggets plan to reinvest some of the savings by either using the projected $6.4 million taxpayer midlevel exception or their trade exception (which will grow to Morris' $9.1 million salary if they take in Smith using the slightly smaller exception generated in the Green trade) to add forward depth.

Behind Porter, whose history of back injuries makes his return from surgery more complicated than Murray's more straightforward ACL rehab, Denver has only Watson, the 30th pick who played sparingly in his lone season at UCLA. Aaron Gordon can slide to small forward as well, but the Nuggets don't have enough power forward depth to cover that spot without any contributions from Gordon.

Until we see what Denver has in store in free agency, it's tough to know exactly what to make of this trade. Still, shedding salary and not getting much value in return for Morris makes this look like a losing move.

Washington Wizards: A

From the Wizards' perspective, this move continues to spin the Russell Westbrook trade forward in ways that enhance the team's depth. Caldwell-Pope, who came from the Lakers as part of the return for Westbrook, has now turned into a pair of potential starters for Washington.

Given Kyle Kuzma came directly from the Lakers, and Kristaps Porzingis was acquired in part for a player (Spencer Dinwiddie) added via sign-and-trade expansion of the Westbrook deal, you can trace four-fifths of the Wizards' likely starting five to that transaction.

Morris in particular fills a need the Wizards have had since trading Westbrook. Dinwiddie didn't prove a fit at point guard next to Bradley Beal, but Morris' skill set should better complement Beal -- under the assumption Beal will re-sign with Washington in free agency.

Because of Morris' strong 3-point shooting (39.5% last season, right at his career mark), he doesn't need the ball in his hands when Beal is operating with it yet can take ballhandling and distribution duties off Beal's plate. Although he's proven a capable starting point guard, the two remaining years on Morris' contract ($9.1 million this season, $9.8 million in 2023-24) pay him more like a backup, which is a boon for the Wizards.

Meanwhile, Barton is a more natural fit at small forward next to Beal. My biggest concern from Washington's standpoint is that Barton likes to operate on the ball more than Caldwell-Pope, which could be difficult to manage with Beal and power forward Kyle Kuzma already looking for those touches. Still, Barton showed in Denver he could operate in a role with moderate usage, and he too is an off-ball threat, having hit 2.2 3-pointers per game at an above-average clip last season.


Financially, the Wizards could add the extra salary in this trade without issue. Presuming Beal signs on starting at his maximum salary (a projected $42.7 million), Washington will still be more than $10 million below the estimated luxury tax line with 12 players under contract. The Wizards could still use the bulk of their non-taxpayer midlevel exception to add another ball handler behind Morris.

As was the case with the Westbrook trade, this one doesn't necessarily make Washington a playoff team. However, it's a sensible deal that upgrades the Wizards in the short term without costing them anything down the road -- a no-brainer from their standpoint.

[payitforward]

One more once, as Duke Ellington used to say: who cares?

1. Expiring veteran KCP would not have been with us after this year.
2. Expiring veteran Will Barton will not be with us after this year.
3. Monte Morris is a "massive improvement" over Ish Smith.

End of story.

Once more I'll say: who the hell are you talking to?

1. I didn't talk about KCP, or his longterm future with the team.
2. But Barton might be with you this year.
3. Yeah I explicitly stated that in my post.

You didn't respond to the core content of my post. But you sure did quote me and then bullet list what you seem to think are gotcha refutations.

I guess the real answer to the zinger question you led off with is "Not PIF" - at least, you don't care enough to even read and understand the posts you're replying to. Gets old man. Gets real old.

I'm not trying to give you offense, brother -- not going to argue either.

In fact I did read & understand the "core content" of your post. I'm sure it's accurate; moreover, your image of Jokic restraining himself was funny too! It's fair to say that I should have acknowledged. You have my apology for not doing so.

But, my 3-point bullet list wasn't aimed at you. It's just how I see the situation -- & did from the moment the trade was announced, i.e. well before your perfectly sound critique of Barton.

My premise is that the Wiz, being a really awful team year upon year, simply need to rebuild. Expiring veterans in/out just don't matter, whether it's KCP or Barton. To me, IOW, the trade simply amounts to Ish for Morris: the other two guys are noise not signal.

For that reason, I loved the trade. Plus, I would likely have let Ish's option lapse, so to me it looks like we acquired Monte Morris for nothing!

Hey, you don't have to agree -- & I could be wrong too. It's happened before & will happen again. For example, if we'd held on to KCP, maybe we could have traded him at the deadline for enough more than we'll be able to get in return for Barton that it would have been preferable to do so.

Let's see how it works out. & if it turns out I was wrong, I'll check in here to acknowledge the fact. In the meantime, peace!

[payitforward]

Here is another Grade of the trade from ESPN Insider

Washington Wizards: A
From the Wizards' perspective, this move......it's a sensible deal that upgrades the Wizards in the short term without costing them anything down the road -- a no-brainer from their standpoint.

This is more or less the way I see it.

[DCZards]

Here is another Grade of the trade from ESPN Insider

Washington Wizards: A
From the Wizards' perspective, this move......it's a sensible deal that upgrades the Wizards in the short term without costing them anything down the road -- a no-brainer from their standpoint.

This is more or less the way I see it.

Me too. I would have preferred Brogdon or Tyus Jones. But Brogdon is expensive and oft-injured, and Jones is likely going to get a contract far beyond what the Zards would have been able to pay.

The way I see it is that the Zards got an experienced, quality PG for half the price of either Brogdon or Jones...a player who can start in the short-term and become a backup down the road should the Zards pick up someone better.

Not a game changer...but a BIG plus for a team in desperate need of better PG play. The idea that Beal or Davis was going to be the Zards starting PG next season was a non-starter for me.

[dckingsfan]

My premise is that the Wiz, being a really awful team year upon year, simply need to rebuild. Expiring veterans in/out just don't matter, whether it's KCP or Barton. To me, IOW, the trade simply amounts to Ish for Morris: the other two guys are noise not signal.

For that reason, I loved the trade. Plus, I would likely have let Ish's option lapse, so to me it looks like we acquired Monte Morris for nothing!

From that perspective I have to agree with you. This keeps us treading water without throwing off assets.

From my perspective, we are signing Beal to pair with Monte Morris for the next two years. To me, that is a disaster - well, I guess trying for the play-in isn't really a disaster but... you get where I am going with this.

If that was your "best" move. You don't sign Beal. You do a S&T. Because three seasons from now Beal is 31...

If you look at this trade - fine, I will give you it isn't horrible. When you look at it in context... not so pretty.

[HanzGruber]

Barton isn’t actually gonna be starting right

[DCZards]

Excerpt. Link to full article is at bottom

Hughes: Morris and Barton can help Wizards' needs
By Chase Hughes

Beyond adding depth, they likely improved when it comes to 3-point shooting. The Wizards were the worst team in the NBA last year at making threes. Meanwhile, Morris comes over as a career 39.4% 3-point shooter. Only Rui Hachimura shot better among Wizards regulars last season.

Barton has knocked down 37.2% of his threes over the last three seasons. While that is about league average, it would have stood out on the Wizards last season, as only Hachimura and Caldwell-Pope shot a higher clip among their rotation players.

Morris, 27, also has a good contract, as he's due to make about $18.7 million over the next two seasons. At roughly $9 million per year, that's cheaper than some of the options the Wizards could have explored in free agency.

A reasonable expectation for Morris would be for him to start at point guard and simply do the job competently. He may not average 20 points or 10 assists per game, but he will run the offense, score efficiently and protect the ball. Morris' most encouraging stat may involve the latter, as he was fifth in the NBA last season with a 4.72 assist-to-turnover ratio.

Barton, 31, can also make plays for others in addition to scoring at a higher rate (14.7 ppg in 2021-22). Barton averaged 3.9 assists per game last season, solid for a two/three who isn't a particularly high usage player.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/hughes-monte-morris-and-will-barton-could-help-wizards-biggest-needs

[payitforward]

Barton isn’t actually gonna be starting right

edit -- oh wait: I'm an idiot...! This question is about Barton not Morris! Sorry! But... I think the below may still be of significant interest.

Are you suggesting he shouldn't start? Or, if he did, it would be a bad thing?

A guy who started for the 4th best team in the league last year?

Who, over the last 4 years (of his 5 year tenure in the NBA) has played more PG minutes than anyone else on the Nuggets while the team has compiled a 195-114 record?

Are you suggesting that that guy isn't good enough to start at PG for the Washington Wizards?

Honestly, I don't know what I'm missing here, but the response to our acquisition of Monte Morris has been strange beyond belief. I just don't get it.

I would request that you look at this page, which puts Morris & Jalen Brunson side by side: https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=morrimo01&player_id1=brunsja01&sum=0&request=1

Specifically, please look at the per 36 minute data. Is there something in those numbers that makes you think Jalen Brunson is significantly superior (or superior at all for that matter) to Monte Morris?

Then, please take a look at the "Advanced" data -- in particular look at Win Shares, Win Shares / 48, & VORP for the two guys.

Now... numbers don't tell you everything. But, surely they tell you something! Without wanting to make a big deal out of it, what is there in all this data that would tell anyone that Jalen Brunson is a much better player than Morris?

Is he?

[payitforward]

My premise is that the Wiz, being a really awful team year upon year, simply need to rebuild. Expiring veterans in/out just don't matter, whether it's KCP or Barton. To me, IOW, the trade simply amounts to Ish for Morris: the other two guys are noise not signal.

For that reason, I loved the trade. Plus, I would likely have let Ish's option lapse, so to me it looks like we acquired Monte Morris for nothing!

From that perspective I have to agree with you. This keeps us treading water without throwing off assets.

From my perspective, we are signing Beal to pair with Monte Morris for the next two years. To me, that is a disaster - well, I guess trying for the play-in isn't really a disaster but... you get where I am going with this.

If that was your "best" move. You don't sign Beal. You do a S&T. Because three seasons from now Beal is 31...

If you look at this trade - fine, I will give you it isn't horrible. When you look at it in context... not so pretty.

Why does it have to be "your 'best' move?" It's A move. & a substantial upgrade as well -- from Ish to Morris. At no cost. Plus, the "context" doesn't change the move! No matter what, Monte Morris is a zillion times better than Ish Smith. & Ish is 36. Presumably this is his last year. Instead of going away for nothing, in other words, he got us Morris.

& it'll be hard to think of or do anything at all to make re-signing Brad for $45m/year anything but an utterly disastrous mistake.

[HanzGruber]

Barton isn’t actually gonna be starting right

edit -- oh wait: I'm an idiot...! This question is about Barton not Morris! Sorry! But... I think the below may still be of significant interest.

Are you suggesting he shouldn't start? Or, if he did, it would be a bad thing?

A guy who started for the 4th best team in the league last year?

Who, over the last 4 years (of his 5 year tenure in the NBA) has played more PG minutes than anyone else on the Nuggets while the team has compiled a 195-114 record?

Are you suggesting that that guy isn't good enough to start at PG for the Washington Wizards?

Honestly, I don't know what I'm missing here, but the response to our acquisition of Monte Morris has been strange beyond belief. I just don't get it.

I would request that you look at this page, which puts Morris & Jalen Brunson side by side: https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=morrimo01&player_id1=brunsja01&sum=0&request=1

Specifically, please look at the per 36 minute data. Is there something in those numbers that makes you think Jalen Brunson is significantly superior (or superior at all for that matter) to Monte Morris?

Then, please take a look at the "Advanced" data -- in particular look at Win Shares, Win Shares / 48, & VORP for the two guys.

Now... numbers don't tell you everything. But, surely they tell you something! Without wanting to make a big deal out of it, what is there in all this data that would tell anyone that Jalen Brunson is a much better player than Morris?

Is he?

lol even tho you meant the wrong person I don’t think Barton should be starting over rui or deni. He’s the perfect 6th man type