Political Roundtable Part XXIX

Wizardspride · Post #1601 » by **Wizardspride** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 8:46 pm

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dobrojim · Post #1602 » by **dobrojim** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 8:57 pm

queridiculo wrote:
bsilver wrote:
long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:The franchise is so fundamental to our democracy lasting. I wasn’t in favor of Dems eliminating the filibuster before the election. But I am now.

Suspend the rules to pass HR 1. It’s common sense, pro-democracy legislation that in normal times should get bipartisan support.

If the Supreme Court overturns it, suspend the filibuster and pack the court.

Regardless of the pros and cons of suspending the filibuster, there's 0 chance of that happening. Joe Manchin has repeatedly said he will never support it. Maybe in 2022 it will be possible.

Idiot democrats.

Always thinking that the moral high ground is worth a damn, while the GOP laughs their collective asses off breaking one rule after another.

I'm not sure I understand why you are blaming Dems. This is what happens when your 'majority'
is the VP as tiebreaker. It only takes one douche to eff everything up. Alternatively you could
also point out that the only reason we have a dem Sen from WV is because he is Manchin.
It's the voting public (nationally) that has us here.

They (the Senate) really need to pass HR1 and HR4 but the GOP probably ain't gonna allow it.
They've already made it completely clear that they are all in on suppression and just don't care
if it's obviously racist. Power is what matters to them with the irony there being the only power
they really want to project is the power stop the country and the govt, (this is important)
from accomplishing anything that would actually improve the lives of ordinary citizens.

I doubt Manchin is even slightly invested in either of the election law bills. He'll
continue to win as long as he continues to run. The only way you might appeal to
him is by pointing out he won't be in the majority otherwise. But he could flip parties
anytime he wants anyway.

The one ray of hope might be what bsilv pointed out, people, especially Black people,
get really pissed when you blatantly try to do this suppression. The dark cloud hovering in the area
of that ray of hope is the redistricting that is about to go forward. The dems could
easily lose their majority in the House without losing any 2020 or 2018 votes but simply by shuffling
the votes into unproductive districts.

dobrojim · Post #1603 » by **dobrojim** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 9:02 pm

Pointgod wrote:
I understand most people are but it’s based on the faulty belief that Republicans are acting in good faith. The Democratic Senators represent 40 million more people than the Republican Senators. Keeping the filibuster is actually minority rule.

And if the Republicans got rid of the filibuster I wouldn’t say anything either. If they believe that strongly in their legislation, and they’re in control then go for it.

When was the last time the Republicans argued in good faith? I can't remember it happening once
since they took the House in 94, probably before that.

Pointgod · Post #1604 » by **Pointgod** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 9:23 pm

dobrojim wrote:
queridiculo wrote:
bsilver wrote:Regardless of the pros and cons of suspending the filibuster, there's 0 chance of that happening. Joe Manchin has repeatedly said he will never support it. Maybe in 2022 it will be possible.

Idiot democrats.

Always thinking that the moral high ground is worth a damn, while the GOP laughs their collective asses off breaking one rule after another.

I'm not sure I understand why you are blaming Dems. This is what happens when your 'majority'
is the VP as tiebreaker. It only takes one douche to eff everything up. Alternatively you could
also point out that the only reason we have a dem Sen from WV is because he is Manchin.
It's the voting public (nationally) that has us here.

They (the Senate) really need to pass HR1 and HR4 but the GOP probably ain't gonna allow it.
They've already made it completely clear that they are all in on suppression and just don't care
if it's obviously racist. Power is what matters to them with the irony there being the only power
they really want to project is the power stop the country and the govt, (this is important)
from accomplishing anything that would actually improve the lives of ordinary citizens.

I doubt Manchin is even slightly invested in either of the election law bills. He'll
continue to win as long as he continues to run. The only way you might appeal to
him is by pointing out he won't be in the majority otherwise. But he could flip parties
anytime he wants anyway.

The one ray of hope might be what bsilv pointed out, people, especially Black people,
get really pissed when you blatantly try to do this suppression. The dark cloud hovering in the area
of that ray of hope is the redistricting that is about to go forward. The dems could
easily lose their majority in the House without losing any 2020 or 2018 votes but simply by shuffling
the votes into unproductive districts.

Two things. The Democratic Party has a little under 2 years to organize and get people ready overcome voter suppression. I don’t want to hear any complaints about Biden didn’t do this or that, take what you can get now and try to get more next time. The Republicans are being blatant and this information is in the open, if they win hello facism and that’s not an exaggeration.

The second thing is that Democrats need to gerrymander the **** hell out of every single district they can and then sue in the Supreme Court. Maybe these **** in the court will make different decisions when it’s Republicans who don’t benefit.

Pointgod · Post #1605 » by **Pointgod** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 9:27 pm

dobrojim wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
I understand most people are but it’s based on the faulty belief that Republicans are acting in good faith. The Democratic Senators represent 40 million more people than the Republican Senators. Keeping the filibuster is actually minority rule.

And if the Republicans got rid of the filibuster I wouldn’t say anything either. If they believe that strongly in their legislation, and they’re in control then go for it.

When was the last time the Republicans argued in good faith? I can't remember it happening once
since they took the House in 94, probably before that.

Not since Newt Gingrich cheated on his wife with cancer

dobrojim · Post #1606 » by **dobrojim** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 9:27 pm

Problem is the Pubs control the state legislatures in several key swing states.
The Dems can gerrymander all they want but the pubs control GA, PA, FLA, WI and
MI (iirc). And AZ and probably a few others too.

The Supremes ain't gonna do $h!+ about gerrymandering.

pancakes3 · Post #1607 » by **pancakes3** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 10:02 pm

Wizardspride wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=19

Read on Twitter
?s=19

the interminably slow reveal of these lawsuits is killing me.

Wizardspride · Post #1608 » by **Wizardspride** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 3:13 am

Read on Twitter

?s=19

dobrojim · Post #1609 » by **dobrojim** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 3:29 am

Wizardspride wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=19

It will be interesting to see how it’s handled if clear connections can
be established which I would not be surprised to learn of.

verbal8 · Post #1610 » by **verbal8** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 3:30 am

Probably more of a question of when. not if this was going to happen.

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-appointee-arrested-connection-capitol-212420608.html

Pointgod · Post #1611 » by **Pointgod** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 2:16 pm

dobrojim wrote:Problem is the Pubs control the state legislatures in several key swing states.
The Dems can gerrymander all they want but the pubs control GA, PA, FLA, WI and
MI (iirc). And AZ and probably a few others too.

The Supremes ain't gonna do $h!+ about gerrymandering.

Well New York, California have a lot of congressional seats. Gerrymander the **** out of them. Every single state where Democrats control all 3 branches. If the Senate isn’t going to pass voting legislation then Democrats should abuse the system to save Democracy.

pancakes3 · Post #1612 » by **pancakes3** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 7:31 pm

SCOTUS has already explicitly ruled that political gerrymandering is constitutional. The endaround is to show that gerrymandering, even if politically motivated, uses/affects race. Of course, Pubs know this, and do their best to cover their tracks and even though everyone KNOWS what this is actually about, lawyers and lawmakers have to dance this stupid dance.

dobrojim · Post #1613 » by **dobrojim** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 7:57 pm

One of the more astute and knowledgeable of historians of Congress
Norm Ornstein

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/03/02/manchin-filibuster-never-sinema/

Wizardspride · Post #1614 » by **Wizardspride** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 8:22 pm

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Read on Twitter

?s=19

verbal8 · Post #1615 » by **verbal8** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 9:14 pm

dobrojim wrote:One of the more astute and knowledgeable of historians of Congress
Norm Ornstein

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/03/02/manchin-filibuster-never-sinema/

These proposals seem very reasonable. Or if the filibuster remains similar, it could be applied to fewer areas - voting rights would be an obvious choice to make require only a majority.

It is a bit ironic that Manchin and Sinema have less power in the areas where the fillibuster is in effect, since basically nothing will happen in those areas.

Post #1616 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Mar 5, 2021 9:57 pm

Lol, give fox credit for no longer lying about being fair and balanced. Once a judge gave ol' mfTucker a "win" by saying nobody takes him seriously... they probably figured it wasn't worth trying to hide what they're there for anymore.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/news/stelter-murdoch-finally-admits-what-fox-news-is-all-about/vi-BB1ehOnK

Still, to be completely honest, they should have all their hosts wear clown noses.