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Political Roundtable Part XXX

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1601 » by Pointgod » Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:51 am

Zonkerbl wrote:It doesn't even matter if they do or don't (teach that white people are oppressors in kindergarten). This is government ordered censorship. This is using the terrifying power of the government's monopoly on violence to force a particular political viewpoint on everyone else, against our will. People who love Democracy, who love our Constitution, who love freedom, should not reward politicians like Tim Scott for strenuously advocating against the things we all value.


Of course it is. Republicans don’t care about the process, they only care about outcomes. So that’s why they have no problem talking out of both sides of their mouth about government censorship only to use the government to censor and punish those that don’t agree with their political viewpoints. Democrats need to get their head out of their ass and stop worrying so much about process. If your goal is truly single payer healthcare, then the only way to even have a chance is to get enough Dems to nuke the filibuster or get to 60 votes in the Senate. Your only actions should be supporting Dems up and down the ballot until you can take them out with a primary challenger to get the ones that align to your policies. United Democratic Party with Independents and freedom loving Republicans means the GOP stand zero chance. But there’s no enthusiasm when people are just **** on the Party. The Republican Party is full of fascists and they’re not going to ever stop until they’ve been absolutely crushed electorally. Remember, they don’t care about the process, only outcomes.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1602 » by Zonkerbl » Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:13 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1603 » by Wizardspride » Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:31 pm

Read on Twitter
?t=VVt2JksjpwXDDTcaRXNFXg&s=19

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1604 » by Pointgod » Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:08 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
Read on Twitter


Absolutely terrifying.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1605 » by Wizardspride » Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:06 pm

Read on Twitter
?t=ghkNNY7oviCE9yvWB_TPFw&s=19

Read on Twitter
?t=9zHZSGPkbAHthzD5yIG7fw&s=19

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1606 » by Pointgod » Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:12 am

Wizardspride wrote:
Read on Twitter
?t=ghkNNY7oviCE9yvWB_TPFw&s=19

Read on Twitter
?t=9zHZSGPkbAHthzD5yIG7fw&s=19


What is the DNC doing? What are Democratic voters doing? They should be cutting attack ads turning up the temperature on Republicans to 100. This basically writes itself. Absolutely hammer these **** from now until the midterms.

Read on Twitter
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1607 » by dobrojim » Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:57 pm

completely agree that the ads need to point out that as far as being extremist goes,
the dems got nothing on the pubs. My concern is whether the ads will have a significant
enough effect to prevent them from winning close races or from re-electing complete
nut jobs like the folks mentioned in some of these recordings (we know the names).
When you are in a cult, information which would normally be a warning becomes
easy to blow off.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

Those who are convinced of absurdities, can be convinced to commit atrocities
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1608 » by Zonkerbl » Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:56 pm

I think it says all you need to know about the Republicans that they are all rallying behind McCarthy. It's kayfabe. They all know it's fake, but/and they also knows what you have to say to get butts in the seats. I'm not even mad, you know? If only the Democrats had this level of message discipline we wouldn't be in this predicament in the first place. It shouldn't be that hard to get people excited about stuff that is actually true. It should be *easier*
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1609 » by pancakes3 » Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:05 pm

not to get all TGW on yall but hard to muster up outrage at capital D dems at the DNC when ostensibly liberal suburban white moms across the spectrum are pretty much united in clutching their pearls at the CRT/LGBTQ+ boogeymen. This stuff's important, and yet, there are thousands of voters who flipped and voted in Youngkin because they don't like their kids learning about racism or sexuality in school. and that's not a messaging issue, that's a deep cultural divide.

there are millions of dems across the country that don't think wealth disparity is a problem. they've been brainwashed to support capitalism, and see nothing wrong with the corporate-dominated profiting structure currently in place.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1610 » by dobrojim » Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:19 pm

The actual case of an assault in Loudoun Co by a trans student was also a precipitating factor.
If they were not afraid before, they got concerned as soon as they hear that. And let's not
forget just the guy interviewed which was part of a tweet posted here that basically said
CRT, don't know what it is but I'm against it. PUBs are great at creating strong emotional reactions
in support of BS policies.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

Those who are convinced of absurdities, can be convinced to commit atrocities
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1611 » by Wizardspride » Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:21 pm

Read on Twitter
?t=tNk7oX42nI91rvUCIrpI5g&s=19

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1612 » by dobrojim » Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:06 pm

obviously that is scary as hell
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

Those who are convinced of absurdities, can be convinced to commit atrocities
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1613 » by Zonkerbl » Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:58 pm

I don't want to nuke the russkies. my ex wife is a russky, my kids are first generation russkies
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1614 » by payitforward » Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:38 pm

Right. "Russkies" didn't invade Ukraine: Vladimir Putin did.

My Russian son-in-law, an extremely smart guy, has been predicting a news bulletin from the Kremlin, one day soon, announce that "tragically, President Putin choked on a peanut this morning & has died...." Words to that effect.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1615 » by popper » Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:29 pm

I'm the wrong person to judge this but I'd be interested in your thoughts.

How to Fix the Democratic Brand

https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/how-to-fix-the-democratic-brand?s=r
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1616 » by Zonkerbl » Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:23 pm

popper wrote:I'm the wrong person to judge this but I'd be interested in your thoughts.

How to Fix the Democratic Brand

https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/how-to-fix-the-democratic-brand?s=r


Astoundingly horrible advice, although not surprising. The Republican brand has *benefited* from embracing and encouraging its insane right wing, but the advice for the left is to give progressives the finger? It's lunacy. Just like center Republicans have had to swallow their pride and dignity and every last shred of humanity to kowtow to the radical right, the solution for the Democrats is to gather up votes of *people who agree with them.* I mean, I understand you can't do everything with Manchin pretty much just pretending to be a Democrat. But Biden could go on a nationwide tour saying "I feel your pain. We are doing what we can. We agree with you. Help us help you" blah blah blah. And instead Biden goes "I vehemently reject the idea of "defund the police"" which is exactly what everybody expected since he's one of the primary authors of the racist war on drugs. Biden's brand of racism is worse than Trump's. At least Trump's flagrant racism gets everybody angry and activated and engaged. Biden's gentle grandpa "just be quiet and maybe we'll take care of it later" brand of racism absolutely ensures nothing gets done.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1617 » by Zonkerbl » Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:27 pm

You know how in the early twentieth century, if you dig around you'll find people saying "I agree with the Nazis, I just think they're taking it too far." That's how the moderate Republicans feel about the Trump supporting radical right. "Well, I'm not nuts about how they're expressing themselves but I basically agree with and support them." And that is fine. That is how they won in 2016, it is how they fended off the blue wave in 2020. "Well, those guys are radical, but they're MY radicals. I might provide constructive criticism, BUT I ALWAYS HAVE THEIR BACK."

Moderate Dems keep telling us "you can't embrace these radical policies if you want to win. You have to accept passive racists like Biden if you want to get moderate votes." WHY CAN'T WE GET MODERATE VOTES??? Are you with us or against us? Do you or do you not believe that black people live in a police state? Yes or no? Is this a problem that needs to be solved or are you just going to put your hands on your ears and yell LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

DEFUND THE FRICKING POLICE. SAY IT!!!!!! KEEP REPEATING IT UNTIL IT BECOMES NORMAL. MOVE THE OVERTON WINDOW.

The Republicans' insanely racist anti-CRT campaign is extraordinarily unpopular. But they get away with it because they have a propaganda arm saying it's ok (NB MSNBC!!!) and an army of professional and volunteer propaganda distributors who incessantly repeat the party line until the MSM is forced to accept it as normal. This works both ways! It's not lying! It's social media driven persuasion! Dems can do it too! It's what AOC has been trying desperately to get the older Dem fuddy duddies to understand
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1618 » by pancakes3 » Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:06 pm

popper wrote:I'm the wrong person to judge this but I'd be interested in your thoughts.

How to Fix the Democratic Brand

https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/how-to-fix-the-democratic-brand?s=r


i'll respond to some rhetoricals raised in this piece to give you some of my thoughts.

Is America really a “white supremacist” society? What does “structural racism” even mean and does it explain all the socioeconomic problems of nonwhites? Is anyone who raises questions about immigration levels a racist? Are personal pronouns necessary and something the left should seek to popularize? Are transwomen exactly the same as biological women and are those who question such a claim simply “haters” who should be expunged from the left coalition (as has been advocated in the UK)?


First off, these aren't even the right questions to ask, and it really shows the bias of the question asker.

Is America really a white supremacist society? To a degree, yes. It's not a binary of whether a nation is 100% white supremacist or 0%, but it's definitely a non-zero number, and it is a significant portion of the population. When Tucker Carlson talks about immigrants "replacing" Americans - that's white supremacy. Charlottesville had a literal white supremacy march. Dylan Roof. Even down the fact of how white people view police vs. minorities. I'm still shocked to this day at the casualness with which some of my white friends call the police. it's a completely different relationship.

What does "structural racism" even mean and does it explain all the socioeconomic problems of nonwhites? Well this is a loaded, and bs-ridden question. Yes, there's systemic racism. Dozens of examples. Issues that have been brought up time and time again. And "explain all the problems" is such a disingenuous modifier.

Is anyone who raises questions about immigration levels a racist? Yes. Because there's no evidence that immigrants are "taking" jobs, or contributing to crime or overburdening the welfare system. These boogeymen are not actual issues, so it's either (a) you know this and don't care because it provides cover for your racist beliefs; or (b) you believe the boogeymen in which case you've been brainwashed into believing that immigrants, who are the exact same genus and species as Americans, are intrinsically lazier, but at the same time taking jobs, but also more criminalistic at heart. Also, it always seems like when people "raise" questions they have no interest in the actual answer.

Are personal pronouns necessary and something the left should seek to popularize? Is this a real issue? Who made the claim that it was necessary, and something that the left is actively popularizing? Is this something that Joe Biden campaigned on? Is there a pronoun bill in the works in Congress? Or is this just another inconsequential fringe issue that Right is attempting to blowing out of proportion in an effort to discredit the "others" ?

Are transwomen exactly the same as biological women and are those who question such a claim simply “haters” who should be expunged from the left coalition (as has been advocated in the UK)? Um, why is this question specifically pointed at transwomen and not transpeople? Is it not as big a deal when a woman transitions into a man? Regardless, nobody ever claimed that transwomen are exactly the same as biological women in every aspect, but with regard to their rights, yes, they need the same rights as biological women. that's all the "left coalition" is asking for. to oppose it is to deny someone their rights? that doesn't seem very fair.

Look. The GOP loves talking about democracy and personal liberties and yet are constantly trying to impose norms on the population. These questions spanned 3 cultural issues: racism, immigration, and trans rights. If we use personal liberties as the guiding principle for how policy should be shaped?

1) institutional racism needs to be dismantled so people can be free to live their lives. this means no redlining. equal policing and sentencing outcomes. did you know that in insurance payouts, actuaries have determined that black people's lives are literally worth less dollars than a white person's? that seems pretty institutional to me. keep it free, baby.

2) immigration - open borders seem pretty free to me. if someone takes your job, well that's just capitalism. free free free.

3) trans rights - the government shouldn't be telling people what to do. as much freedom to do what you want as possible. maximum freedom.

of course it's all bs. both parties want to impose their will on the other, and their vision for what society should look like. it has nothing to do with freedom, and it doesn't even have to necessarily do with what's best for the country, or even the constituents. however, the GOP's position seems to be especially devastating to what's best for the country to the point where it appears to be by design (meaning the GOP intentionally sabotages Dem policies to sandbag it, and then gaslight the constituents come election season so they can say "oh, another failed Dem project").
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1619 » by Zonkerbl » Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:11 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/04/29/why-gdp-economy-shrank/

I look at these numbers and see an economy driven by one narrative - explosive recovery in consumer spending. And it's a robust, long term recovery because it's accompanied by robust investment. The voracious appetite for goods as the economy recovers does a number of things - it diverts goods away from export, it increases imports, it draws down inventories, the insanely high demand causes supply chain issues that are causing temporary price spikes.

None of this is bad news for the economy. But decreased exports, increased imports, and lower inventories all count on the negative side for GDP growth. The only thing to worry about is if the economy is overheating. Well, the parameter to watch there is wages. Is average worker compensation going up? Given all the articles about "people not wanting to work" my intuition is "no." Would be interesting to see the data.

Journalists need to ask actual professional economists to interpret this data for them. This whole "the economy is in bad shape because GDP went down" is causing all the stupid people in the stock market to sell, and they're going to get their ignorant a$$es handed to them, as they should. If you don't understand what Y=C+I+G+(X-M) means you have no business participating in the stock market.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX 

Post#1620 » by Zonkerbl » Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:19 pm

pancakes3 wrote:
popper wrote:I'm the wrong person to judge this but I'd be interested in your thoughts.

How to Fix the Democratic Brand

https://theliberalpatriot.substack.com/p/how-to-fix-the-democratic-brand?s=r


i'll respond to some rhetoricals raised in this piece to give you some of my thoughts.

Is America really a “white supremacist” society? What does “structural racism” even mean and does it explain all the socioeconomic problems of nonwhites? Is anyone who raises questions about immigration levels a racist? Are personal pronouns necessary and something the left should seek to popularize? Are transwomen exactly the same as biological women and are those who question such a claim simply “haters” who should be expunged from the left coalition (as has been advocated in the UK)?


First off, these aren't even the right questions to ask, and it really shows the bias of the question asker.

Is America really a white supremacist society? To a degree, yes. It's not a binary of whether a nation is 100% white supremacist or 0%, but it's definitely a non-zero number, and it is a significant portion of the population. When Tucker Carlson talks about immigrants "replacing" Americans - that's white supremacy. Charlottesville had a literal white supremacy march. Dylan Roof. Even down the fact of how white people view police vs. minorities. I'm still shocked to this day at the casualness with which some of my white friends call the police. it's a completely different relationship.

What does "structural racism" even mean and does it explain all the socioeconomic problems of nonwhites? Well this is a loaded, and bs-ridden question. Yes, there's systemic racism. Dozens of examples. Issues that have been brought up time and time again. And "explain all the problems" is such a disingenuous modifier.

Is anyone who raises questions about immigration levels a racist? Yes. Because there's no evidence that immigrants are "taking" jobs, or contributing to crime or overburdening the welfare system. These boogeymen are not actual issues, so it's either (a) you know this and don't care because it provides cover for your racist beliefs; or (b) you believe the boogeymen in which case you've been brainwashed into believing that immigrants, who are the exact same genus and species as Americans, are intrinsically lazier, but at the same time taking jobs, but also more criminalistic at heart. Also, it always seems like when people "raise" questions they have no interest in the actual answer.

Are personal pronouns necessary and something the left should seek to popularize? Is this a real issue? Who made the claim that it was necessary, and something that the left is actively popularizing? Is this something that Joe Biden campaigned on? Is there a pronoun bill in the works in Congress? Or is this just another inconsequential fringe issue that Right is attempting to blowing out of proportion in an effort to discredit the "others" ?

Are transwomen exactly the same as biological women and are those who question such a claim simply “haters” who should be expunged from the left coalition (as has been advocated in the UK)? Um, why is this question specifically pointed at transwomen and not transpeople? Is it not as big a deal when a woman transitions into a man? Regardless, nobody ever claimed that transwomen are exactly the same as biological women in every aspect, but with regard to their rights, yes, they need the same rights as biological women. that's all the "left coalition" is asking for. to oppose it is to deny someone their rights? that doesn't seem very fair.

Look. The GOP loves talking about democracy and personal liberties and yet are constantly trying to impose norms on the population. These questions spanned 3 cultural issues: racism, immigration, and trans rights. If we use personal liberties as the guiding principle for how policy should be shaped?

1) institutional racism needs to be dismantled so people can be free to live their lives. this means no redlining. equal policing and sentencing outcomes. did you know that in insurance payouts, actuaries have determined that black people's lives are literally worth less dollars than a white person's? that seems pretty institutional to me. keep it free, baby.

2) immigration - open borders seem pretty free to me. if someone takes your job, well that's just capitalism. free free free.

3) trans rights - the government shouldn't be telling people what to do. as much freedom to do what you want as possible. maximum freedom.

of course it's all bs. both parties want to impose their will on the other, and their vision for what society should look like. it has nothing to do with freedom, and it doesn't even have to necessarily do with what's best for the country, or even the constituents. however, the GOP's position seems to be especially devastating to what's best for the country to the point where it appears to be by design (meaning the GOP intentionally sabotages Dem policies to sandbag it, and then gaslight the constituents come election season so they can say "oh, another failed Dem project").


I didn't even get this far in the article. The premise in the opening paragraphs that the Dems need to lean away from their core constituencies is clearly written by someone who wants to see the Dems fail.
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