Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX

[Ruzious]

Danny Green has accomplished a helluvalot more than Jones. And Aminu established himself as a top defender who plays smart - 2 things Jones has issues with. Jones has shown potential, but he hasn't stayed healthy other than in his 2nd year, he's disappointed in the playoffs, and now he's gotten off to the kind of start that could land him stuck on the bench. Shumpert... well, that's the Knicks doing. At this point, I think it would be foolish to give up a 1st for Jones - and I've always been a defender of his - he's always had a lot of people criticizing the way he plays going back to his days at KY. I like Jones, but he hasn't established a big market for himself, imo, and we're in no position to risk a 1st round pick on him when we can wait on him or someone just as good in free agency.

Fair enough, I am in no rush to give up a 1st. But Danny Green signed a below market contract, No doubt about it. He is much more comparable to Carroll, Middleton, and Mathews.
Also, below is comparison between Aminu and Jones both by career and last year. In what way do you see Aminu as superior? Jones looks like he clearly scores more efficiently on higher usage while turning it over less and being at least a comparable defender. Jones also outweighs Aminu by 35lbs and can guard bigger 4's.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2015&p1=aminual01&y2=2015&p2=joneste01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2015&p1=aminual01&y2=2015&p2=joneste01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Aminu is a FAR better defender than Jones and plays smarter. I think I already said that.

[sportscrazy]

If it left the Wizards with enough cap space to MAX out Kevin Durant this off-season, would you do a multi-team deal where the Wizards get Markieff Morris and Langston Galloway for Ramon Sessions, Martell Webster and two first round draft picks?

[J-Ves]

If it left the Wizards with enough cap space to MAX out Kevin Durant this off-season, would you do a multi-team deal where the Wizards get Markieff Morris and Langston Galloway for Ramon Sessions, Martell Webster and two first round draft picks?

No. This team has problems beyond lacking a starting PF. We can't trade assets for a bandaid fix. I believe next years first is going to be in the lottery so I think it's value alone is higher than Morris.


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[nate33]

If it left the Wizards with enough cap space to MAX out Kevin Durant this off-season, would you do a multi-team deal where the Wizards get Markieff Morris and Langston Galloway for Ramon Sessions, Martell Webster and two first round draft picks?

Langston Galloway is playing out of his mind right now. NY wouldn't trade him until he cools down a bit. After he cools down, it'll be a better time to discuss trading him. Ultimately, I don't see why he is being brought into this though.

I would probably trade Webster, Blair and a lotto protected 1st for Morris. I'd try real hard to make it a 2017 lotto protected 1st.

[Ruzious]

If it left the Wizards with enough cap space to MAX out Kevin Durant this off-season, would you do a multi-team deal where the Wizards get Markieff Morris and Langston Galloway for Ramon Sessions, Martell Webster and two first round draft picks?

Langston Galloway is playing out of his mind right now. Any team with a young player putting up superstar type numbers isn't going to trade him so there's no point in bringing him up.

I would probably trade Webster, Blair and a lotto protected 1st for Morris. I'd try real hard to make it a 2017 lotto protected 1st.

I agree with that. Galloway looked great against the Wiz, but I couldn't tell how much of that was because his man was often focused on helping out on Melo.

[sportscrazy]

If it left the Wizards with enough cap space to MAX out Kevin Durant this off-season, would you do a multi-team deal where the Wizards get Markieff Morris and Langston Galloway for Ramon Sessions, Martell Webster and two first round draft picks?

Langston Galloway is playing out of his mind right now. NY wouldn't trade him until he cools down a bit. After he cools down, it'll be a better time to discuss trading him. Ultimately, I don't see why he is being brought into this though.

I would probably trade Webster, Blair and a lotto protected 1st for Morris. I'd try real hard to make it a 2017 lotto protected 1st.

I'm a Knicks fan, and the deal I proposed maxes out the Knicks 2016 cap space by dumping Calderon as part of the deal as well. I definitely trade Galloway to dump Calderon IMO. Gallo is the only player that gives us a chance to do so.

[LyricalRico]

Playing around with the Checker to get younger up front for the new style:

Wizards trade: Gortat, Nene, Temple
Wizards receive: Faried, Miles Plumlee, Mayo

Nuggets trade: Faried
Nuggets receive: Gortat

Bucks trade: Mayo, Plumlee
Bucks receive: Nene, Utah 2nd

Jazz trade: Future 2nd
Jazz receive: Temple

Plumlee/Gooden/Hump
Faried/Dudley
Porter/Dudley
Beal/Neal/Mayo
Wall/Sessions

Still not perfect, but definitely more athletic and there's really no cap impact. Yes we get smaller, but if we're not going to use Gortat in screen/roll anymore what's the difference. Mayo's expiring will probably be easier to move at the deadline than Nene's would have been.

[Ruzious]

Nah, Gortat will come around. He's worth a lot more to the Zards than Faried and Plumlee.

[payitforward]

...I would probably trade Webster, Blair and a lotto protected 1st for Morris. I'd try real hard to make it a 2017 lotto protected 1st.

I really don't understand why Markieff Morris gets the amount of love he does here. He's had one mediocre year and the rest just plain bad. He also gives every indication of being a troubled kid, and this year he is playing just absolutely horribly. He's got a guaranteed contract at meaningful $$ for 4 years.

I wouldn't give anything whatsoever for Markieff Morris, to be blunt. That is, "anything" that we have; of course I would trade an even worse contract for him. Right off I can't think of one, however -- certainly we don't have one.

"But he would be different with us." No.

[Ruzious]

...I would probably trade Webster, Blair and a lotto protected 1st for Morris. I'd try real hard to make it a 2017 lotto protected 1st.

I really don't understand why Markieff Morris gets the amount of love he does here. He's had one mediocre year and the rest just plain bad. He also gives every indication of being a troubled kid, and this year he is playing just absolutely horribly. He's got a guaranteed contract at meaningful $$ for 4 years.

I wouldn't give anything whatsoever for Markieff Morris, to be blunt. That is, "anything" that we have; of course I would trade an even worse contract for him. Right off I can't think of one, however -- certainly we don't have one.

"But he would be different with us." No.

I'm on PIF's side here. Morris sure sounded like a crybaby this offseason, he doesn't rebound, he's shooting 36%, and it's not like he does anything that sticks out. He's had very good defensive +/- numbers in past seasons, but as far as I know, there's no evidence that it's because of him.

[payitforward]

Playing around with the Checker to get younger up front for the new style:

Wizards trade: Gortat, Nene, Temple
Wizards receive: Faried, Miles Plumlee, Mayo

Nuggets trade: Faried
Nuggets receive: Gortat

Bucks trade: Mayo, Plumlee
Bucks receive: Nene, Utah 2nd

Jazz trade: Future 2nd
Jazz receive: Temple

Plumlee/Gooden/Hump
Faried/Dudley
Porter/Dudley
Beal/Neal/Mayo
Wall/Sessions

Still not perfect, but definitely more athletic and there's really no cap impact. Yes we get smaller, but if we're not going to use Gortat in screen/roll anymore what's the difference. Mayo's expiring will probably be easier to move at the deadline than Nene's would have been.

Wouldn't your point about Mayo be a good reason for Milwaukee turning down this deal? The fact that they are basically giving Plumlee away for a R2 pick might be another, no?

[nate33]

...I would probably trade Webster, Blair and a lotto protected 1st for Morris. I'd try real hard to make it a 2017 lotto protected 1st.

I really don't understand why Markieff Morris gets the amount of love he does here. He's had one mediocre year and the rest just plain bad. He also gives every indication of being a troubled kid, and this year he is playing just absolutely horribly. He's got a guaranteed contract at meaningful $$ for 4 years.

I wouldn't give anything whatsoever for Markieff Morris, to be blunt. That is, "anything" that we have; of course I would trade an even worse contract for him. Right off I can't think of one, however -- certainly we don't have one.

"But he would be different with us." No.

Wow. I just looked at his numbers so far this season. He has been awful. And he definitely wasn't as good last season as he was the year before. Perhaps you are right, I am overvaluing Morris.

I would like to gamble on him if he could be had cheaply, however. He is a good defender with a respectable midrange shot, and he's way younger and more athletic than the PF's on our roster. If his poor play and lousy attitude force Phoenix to dump him, I'd trade Hump + Blair for him. His contract next year is just small enough to leave room for a max player.

[payitforward]

I don't think those are good enough reasons to acquire him -- and above all, I don't want him on the books through Spring 2019. Ugh.

Unfortunately, this is just the kind of move I can see Ernie making. He'd be "doing something", which keeps him in his job. Then, when it didn't work out... it's just one more thing to bury, something he's very good at.

[LyricalRico]

Playing around with the Checker to get younger up front for the new style:

Wizards trade: Gortat, Nene, Temple
Wizards receive: Faried, Miles Plumlee, Mayo

Nuggets trade: Faried
Nuggets receive: Gortat

Bucks trade: Mayo, Plumlee
Bucks receive: Nene, Utah 2nd

Jazz trade: Future 2nd
Jazz receive: Temple

Plumlee/Gooden/Hump
Faried/Dudley
Porter/Dudley
Beal/Neal/Mayo
Wall/Sessions

Still not perfect, but definitely more athletic and there's really no cap impact. Yes we get smaller, but if we're not going to use Gortat in screen/roll anymore what's the difference. Mayo's expiring will probably be easier to move at the deadline than Nene's would have been.

Wouldn't your point about Mayo be a good reason for Milwaukee turning down this deal? The fact that they are basically giving Plumlee away for a R2 pick might be another, no?

Sure, I get what you're saying. I was thinking that all of their bigs are young with no playoff experience, and maybe they'd want a vet.

Another option would be Gortat for Faried straight up and just start Nene at C. Again, only if we really aren't going to do much screen/roll from now on.

[closg00]

Anyone want to lay odds on us trading next-years 1st round pick at the next trade deadline? EG will try to correct his off-season mistakes.

[stevemcqueen1]

DeMarcus Cousins trade talk time after his latest scrape with George Karl.

Washington trades:

Oubre
Gortat
Nene
Satoransky
2016 first
2018 first

Sacramento trades:
Cousins
Gay

Forget about Sacramento, do we pull the trigger on that deal?

What if you switch out Oubre for Porter?

[payitforward]

DeMarcus Cousins trade talk time after his latest scrape with George Karl.

Washington trades:

Oubre
Gortat
Nene
Satoransky
2016 first
2018 first

Sacramento trades:
Cousins
Gay

Forget about Sacramento, do we pull the trigger on that deal?

What if you switch out Oubre for Porter?

Leaving aside the fact that I don't want Cousins... period, this trade is a classic nightmare. It would leave us with 4 NBA players on our squad and only 1 R1 draft pick in the next 3 years.

I am having a lot of trouble understanding how *anyone* could think of this kind of trade as a way to build an NBA team.

[Ruzious]

DeMarcus Cousins trade talk time after his latest scrape with George Karl.

Washington trades:

Oubre
Gortat
Nene
Satoransky
2016 first
2018 first

Sacramento trades:
Cousins
Gay

Forget about Sacramento, do we pull the trigger on that deal?

What if you switch out Oubre for Porter?

I'd worry about what adding 2 very high usage players who aren't real efficient would effect the development of Beal and Porter - who I think we want to make higher usage players who can be more efficient. I'd rather not include Gay in the deal.

[payitforward]

Lets assume for a moment that Cousins would put up numbers here like the numbers he put up last season in Sacramento. That way we can compare those with Gortat's numbers last year. We'll adjust for minutes by just looking at what would happen every 40 minutes if we had the one guy instead of the other.

With Cousins instead of Gortat...

ball possession:
we'd have 2.5 more defensive rebounds. That's good.
we'd have .7 more offensive rebounds. That's good too.
we'd have 3.3 more turnovers. That's bad. In fact, it more than nullifies the rebounding advantage (most defensive boards one guy doesn't get go to one of his teammates). Net is that we throw away @2 possessions.
we'd have 1 more steal -- so we get back 1 of the 2 possessions we lost.
Result: slight advantage to Gortat on ball possession. Roughly speaking an extra possession is worth 1 extra point -- something like that anyway.

How about scoring:
we'd have 8 more FTA giving us 6.4 more pts. That's good.
we'd take 8.7 shots away from our other guys (that's how many more shots Cousins takes than Gortat). But, we'd only make 2.9 of those shots (that's how many more shots Cousins makes than Gortat) -- i.e. .33% on those extra shots = 5.8 points. Now, if other guys were taking those shots, some of them would be 3pointers. Assume we have an eFG% of @.47%. So we give back @2.8 of those extra points we got from Cousins FT shooting. Still...
Result: advantage Cousins to the tune of @3 points.

Net of those 2 factors, ball possession and scoring, Cousins is slightly better -- @1 point per 40 minutes. But... Cousins commits 1.6 more fouls in that same 40 minutes. Maybe he gives back his advantage by putting the other team on the line? Some of it anyway?

Then there is the rest of the baggage he brings. I don't think he's a bad guy, but I do think he has a personality that requires *a lot* of massaging, soothing, management, call it what you want. Even straight up for Gortat, there's too much risk from that stuff.

Now, of course the reaction from those who want him will be: "he'll be different for us." No.

[payitforward]

DeMarcus Cousins trade talk time after his latest scrape with George Karl.

Washington trades:

Oubre
Gortat
Nene
Satoransky
2016 first
2018 first

Sacramento trades:
Cousins
Gay

Forget about Sacramento, do we pull the trigger on that deal?

What if you switch out Oubre for Porter?

I'd worry about what adding 2 very high usage players who aren't real efficient would effect the development of Beal and Porter - who I think we want to make higher usage players who can be more efficient. I'd rather not include Gay in the deal.

Well put. I'd only add that I also don't want to include Cousins in the deal.