Rui Hachimura

[nate33]

OTOH, Tristan Thompson gets 13.4 boards per 36 minutes. Sabonis gets 11. MPJr. gets 9.5, Kyle Kuzma gets 9, Jamychal Green gets 10.4, etc. etc. etc.

Not really interested in debating you on this subject because we're just going to talk past each other. But these examples are kind of ridiculous. Sabonis is effectively the center in Indiana (which is why Turner averages just 7.5 boards per 36). Thompson is the center in Boston. JaMychal Green is the backup center in Denver. And there are no more "etceteras" except more guys who play mostly center. Kuzma and MPJ are outliers. Most power forwards average around 8 rebounds per 36.

Rui has fallen short of that mark. He needs to get better. But let's not act like power forwards should be averaging 10-11 boards a night like Karl Malone and Charles Oakley.

[Ruzious]

Let's take Xavier Tillman as an interesting comparison for Rui:

Tillman gets 8 rebounds per 36 minutes, so to equal him, Rui only has to get slightly over 20% more rebounds. & to equal Tillman in assists, Rui only has to get 45% more of them. He just needs 30% more steals to equal Tillman in steals minus turnovers too. Oh, & Rui would need to block 10 times more shots....

Then again, Rui scores a few more points per 36 minutes than Tillman does, but Tillman has a slightly higher TS%. Tillman also fouls more than Rui. So, he's not better than Rui at everything. But, here's the thing:

overall, Xavier Tillman is playing at a much higher level than Rui Hachimura. He's also a rookie. He's also a little more than a year younger than Rui. & he was the 35th pick in the draft -- not the #9 pick. Memphis isn't "all in" on the kid.

I also doubt that Memphis fans feel they have to arrange the numbers & comparisons with the idea that they might make Tillman look like a potential star of the future.

They're also probably not comparing Tillman to Rui. I'm wondering why you're doing that. They fill very different roles for their teams. And Tillman is not playing at a significantly higher level than Rui. I'm saying that as someone who was pushing Tillman long before it became popular. I like him, but his stats are nothing special for a big. Rui's shown some significant improvement lately. Let's see if they continue.

[DCZards]

...and Tillman is playing most of his minutes against backups as opposed to Rui who’s usually going up against the other team’s starters.

[payitforward]

OTOH, Tristan Thompson gets 13.4 boards per 36 minutes. Sabonis gets 11. MPJr. gets 9.5, Kyle Kuzma gets 9, Jamychal Green gets 10.4, etc. etc. etc.

Not really interested in debating you on this subject because we're just going to talk past each other. But these examples are kind of ridiculous. Sabonis is effectively the center in Indiana (which is why Turner averages just 7.5 boards per 36). Thompson is the center in Boston. JaMychal Green is the backup center in Denver. And there are no more "etceteras" except more guys who play mostly center. Kuzma and MPJ are outliers. Most power forwards average around 8 rebounds per 36.

Rui has fallen short of that mark. He needs to get better. But let's not act like power forwards should be averaging 10-11 boards a night like Karl Malone and Charles Oakley.

Actually, nothing to debate -- I agree 100% about the guys you mention. For that matter, maybe Memphis is playing Tillman as a backup C (tho... I don't think so).

But, if Rui is to develop into an outstanding player, a guy who is, overall, better than most 4s, as good or better in fact than most starters, then that will only happen if he is producing numbers that are, overall, better than most 4s, as good or better than most starters. I assume that is not a case where we'd be talking past each other. I.e. that you agree.

Obviously, players are individuals, so one guy will be better at one or another thing than some other guy who is better at some other aspect of the game -- even two players whom we'd say are about as good as each other overall.

In that sense, Rui doesn't even have to become a better rebounder -- not if he becomes a ton better at some other things. I.e. better enough that it's reasonable to say overall that he's an outstanding player.

The best news in that regard is that Rui's TS% has climbed into new territory for him. It's .559 right now. &, overall, he's at least as productive as he was last year.

If he continues to trend up over the rest of the season, that will be a strong positive indicator for him: he'll have had an improved 2d year overall. I.e. he'll be a better player. If he puts up better numbers his 2d season than his first, that's an indication that he has a solid chance to do it again his 3d year.

But, what doesn't work -- for Rui or anyone -- is to say "his TS% is up, that's a good thing" followed by "his rebounding is down, but that doesn't really matter" followed by "his steals are up a bit, that's a good thing" followed by "his assists are down a bit, but that doesn't really matter," etc.

& that's a lot of what the discussion of Rui is like on this board.

[payitforward]

...Tillman is not playing at a significantly higher level than Rui. I'm saying that as someone who was pushing Tillman long before it became popular. I like him, but his stats are nothing special for a big. Rui's shown some significant improvement lately. Let's see if they continue.

You can opine about how Tillman's playing & about what the word "significant" means when it's applied to him vs when it's applied to Rui. Why not?

But numbers are a different thing:

Rui fouls 2.5 times per 36 minutes. Tillman fouls 4.3 times. That's a way Rui is playing at a higher level than Tillman.

OTOH, Rui & Tillman each get the same number of defensive rebounds per 36 minutes. That's a way neither one of them is playing at a higher level than the other.

On the 3d hand, however, Tillman gets more offensive rebounds per 36 minutes than Rui. That's a way Tillman is playing at a higher level than Rui.

Rinse & repeat for all the other numbers the guys produce. That's how you judge.

Of course, if basketball were like, say, a floor routine in gymnastics, why then you could hold up a sign giving Rui a ten & another giving another guy whatever you want to give him.

But basketball isn't that. Basketball wins & losses are 100% the product of numbers. So, if by "good" we mean "contributes to wins," then the numbers tell the story. 100% of the story.

[payitforward]

...and Tillman is playing most of his minutes against backups as opposed to Rui who’s usually going up against the other team’s starters.

That's fair enough. & if he were going against the other team's starters, maybe his numbers wouldn't be as good. In fact, let's grant that.

&, you know what? In that case, he wouldn't be playing at a much higher level than Rui. No question about it.

Why? Because it's those numbers that tell you the level he's playing at.

[Ruzious]

...Tillman is not playing at a significantly higher level than Rui. I'm saying that as someone who was pushing Tillman long before it became popular. I like him, but his stats are nothing special for a big. Rui's shown some significant improvement lately. Let's see if they continue.

You can opine about how Tillman's playing & about what the word "significant" means when it's applied to him vs when it's applied to Rui. Why not?

But numbers are a different thing:

Rui fouls 2.5 times per 36 minutes. Tillman fouls 4.3 times. That's a way Rui is playing at a higher level than Tillman.

OTOH, Rui & Tillman each get the same number of defensive rebounds per 36 minutes. That's a way neither one of them is playing at a higher level than the other.

On the 3d hand, however, Tillman gets more offensive rebounds per 36 minutes than Rui. That's a way Tillman is playing at a higher level than Rui.

Rinse & repeat for all the other numbers the guys produce. That's how you judge.

Of course, if basketball were like, say, a floor routine in gymnastics, why then you could hold up a sign giving Rui a ten & another giving another guy whatever you want to give him.

But basketball isn't that. Basketball wins & losses are 100% the product of numbers. So, if by "good" we mean "contributes to wins," then the numbers tell the story. 100% of the story.

I prefer to look at this way; I'm right, and you're not.

Seriously, as a starting point - I look at production and efficiency and then make an adjustment for position - because PG's and Centers generally have more production - which does not make them better or more important to winning.

A rookie big who's doing very well - in limited minutes is... Nathan Knight!

[gambitx777]

Rui got a G gear commercial lol good for him!

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[prime1time]

Another good game for Hachimura, 17 and 9.

[smoothSeph]

Another good game for Hachimura, 17 and 9.

I watched Russ jump in front of Rui for 3 easy rebounds, for those that think he can’t average a rebound more or whatever the complaint is now.

[WallToWall]

Another good game for Hachimura, 17 and 9.

I watched Russ jump in front of Rui for 3 easy rebounds, for those that think he can’t average a rebound more or whatever the complaint is now.

As true as this is, you could say that a more aggressive Hach could have out-wanted the rebound, even if it is his own teammate.

Still, a good game. I like the trajectory he has based on the last 3 games.

[nate33]

20 and 10 against the Nets tonight, and it only took 11 FGA's.

Over the last 5 games, he has averaged 20 points, 9 boards, 1.2 assists and 1.2 steals with a TS% of .654 and hitting 47% of his 3's.

I'm really pleased with the rebounding, but I don't yet believe in the scoring efficiency because he's only averaging 2 FTA's per game over that stretch. But still, 20/9 is very good for a guy who just played his 82nd game tonight.

[DCZards]

This is very, very encouraging.

Read on Twitter

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Let's take Xavier Tillman as an interesting comparison for Rui:

Tillman gets 8 rebounds per 36 minutes, so to equal him, Rui only has to get slightly over 20% more rebounds. & to equal Tillman in assists, Rui only has to get 45% more of them. He just needs 30% more steals to equal Tillman in steals minus turnovers too. Oh, & Rui would need to block 10 times more shots....

Then again, Rui scores a few more points per 36 minutes than Tillman does, but Tillman has a slightly higher TS%. Tillman also fouls more than Rui. So, he's not better than Rui at everything. But, here's the thing:

overall, Xavier Tillman is playing at a much higher level than Rui Hachimura. He's also a rookie. He's also a little more than a year younger than Rui. & he was the 35th pick in the draft -- not the #9 pick. Memphis isn't "all in" on the kid.

I also doubt that Memphis fans feel they have to arrange the numbers & comparisons with the idea that they might make Tillman look like a potential star of the future.

They're also probably not comparing Tillman to Rui. I'm wondering why you're doing that. They fill very different roles for their teams. And Tillman is not playing at a significantly higher level than Rui. I'm saying that as someone who was pushing Tillman long before it became popular. I like him, but his stats are nothing special for a big. Rui's shown some significant improvement lately. Let's see if they continue.

Perhaps I can help.

I am now seeing Hachimura the same way I did when he was first drafted. He is a lot like Antwan Jamison and Caron Butler. I always preferred both of those guys as small forwards. Hachimura won’t ever give the production Tillman or Clarke on hustle play stats, like rebounds and deflections.

However, Rui could be a beast of a scorer in a system like the ones that Jamison and Butler were in. He’s also a Rip Hamilton-type scorer. Rui can move and he very definitely gets buckets.

I think the Wizards would do very well to draft someone like Isaiah Jackson. Either that or acquire a Nerlens Noel or Richauan Holmes and play that player at PF.

I also think Hachimura and Avidja have the makings of a decent tandem.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

This is very, very encouraging.

Read on Twitter

Is it blasphemy to think that perhaps Rui Hachimura could play the SF same way that Carmelo Anthony did at Denver?

They had Nene for defense. I think Bassey or Cockburn are going to fall to round two. I don’t care what the trend is in the NBA I would like to have a huge guy at power forward or C.

Deni Avidja is WAY BETTER than he looks playing for Scott Brooks. In a couple years he should be very effective at PF or SF.

Rui hitting threes and assertive makes me think things bode well moving forward.

[prime1time]

Watch on YouTube

Offensively, Rui can be as good as he wants to be. He still has so far to grow, but he's finally making the game easy for himself. Sprinting down the floor for mismatches. He's not going to shoot this well every game but his ability to get easy buckets will keep his percentages high. Also, for someone that use to have a hitch, his form is now beautiful. Rui's just getting started.

[nate33]

This is very, very encouraging.

Read on Twitter

Is it blasphemy to think that perhaps Rui Hachimura could play the SF same way that Carmelo Anthony did at Denver?

They had Nene for defense. I think Bassey or Cockburn are going to fall to round two. I don’t care what the trend is in the NBA I would like to have a huge guy at power forward or C.

Deni Avidja is WAY BETTER than he looks playing for Scott Brooks. In a couple years he should be very effective at PF or SF.

Rui hitting threes and assertive makes me think things bode well moving forward.

I think the big advantage of Rui is that he can give you the skill of a SF, but in a PF's body. For now, he hasn't shown a PF's rebounding skill, but if he maintains the 9 rebounds per game he has posted recently, he'll have done that too.

Generally speaking, tweener players are better off playing up to the bigger position. It allows room for more skilled teammates. (It's easier to find a highly skilled 6-7 guy to play SF next to him than a highly skilled 6-9 guy to play PF because there are more highly skilled 6-7 guys on the planet.)

[tontoz]

Zach Lowe has been saying lately that teams want tweener forwards as opposed to guys who clearly fit at the 4 or 3.

[gambitx777]

Like remember 7 ish years ago the trend were tweener players that weighed 265-290 like they were 6'6-6'8 but beef. Now it's tweeners but they have speed like 6'7-6'8 but they hover around 220-230

Zach Lowe has been saying lately that teams want tweener forwards as opposed to guys who clearly fit at the 4 or 3.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

This is very, very encouraging.

Read on Twitter

Is it blasphemy to think that perhaps Rui Hachimura could play the SF same way that Carmelo Anthony did at Denver?

They had Nene for defense. I think Bassey or Cockburn are going to fall to round two. I don’t care what the trend is in the NBA I would like to have a huge guy at power forward or C.

Deni Avidja is WAY BETTER than he looks playing for Scott Brooks. In a couple years he should be very effective at PF or SF.

Rui hitting threes and assertive makes me think things bode well moving forward.

I think the big advantage of Rui is that he can give you the skill of a SF, but in a PF's body. For now, he hasn't shown a PF's rebounding skill, but if he maintains the 9 rebounds per game he has posted recently, he'll have done that too.

Generally speaking, tweener players are better off playing up to the bigger position. It allows room for more skilled teammates. (It's easier to find a highly skilled 6-7 guy to play SF next to him than a highly skilled 6-9 guy to play PF because there are more highly skilled 6-7 guys on the planet.)

I thought of you when I said what I preferred. I am glad that you said generally speaking. I agree with you

All I’m saying is if I were a GM