Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[Dat2U]

What makes Wiseman a better prospect than Achiuwa at this point? And I understand that the GS proposed deal is centered moreso around the top 3-10 pick.

Achiuwa per36: 17 points 12 rebounds 2 assists 0.3 steals 0.7 blocks 2.8 turnovers.

61.5% TS

on/off differential: -2.1

Wiseman per36: 18.7 points 10.5 rebounds 0.7 assists 0.8 steals 2.7 blocks 3.1 turnovers.

52.4% TS

On/off differential: -14.9

I like Achiuwa more than Wiseman too. The difference is a top 3-10 pick (plus possibly a #15-20 GSW pick) instead of just the one Miami pick in 2025. Also, with the Golden State deal, we don't immediately add a good player to hurt the tank. It makes our own pick likely to be a lotto pick. With the Miami deal, Herro probably helps us win enough games to land the #7 or #8 pick instead of a top 3 pick.

Herro + Robinson > a mid lottery pick and mid 1st rounder.

Also Herro isn't at level to help us win games consistently yet. I doubt he'd significant hurt the tank.

[nate33]

What makes Wiseman a better prospect than Achiuwa at this point? And I understand that the GS proposed deal is centered moreso around the top 3-10 pick.

Achiuwa per36: 17 points 12 rebounds 2 assists 0.3 steals 0.7 blocks 2.8 turnovers.

61.5% TS

on/off differential: -2.1

Wiseman per36: 18.7 points 10.5 rebounds 0.7 assists 0.8 steals 2.7 blocks 3.1 turnovers.

52.4% TS

On/off differential: -14.9

I like Achiuwa more than Wiseman too. The difference is a top 3-10 pick (plus possibly a #15-20 GSW pick) instead of just the one Miami pick in 2025. Also, with the Golden State deal, we don't immediately add a good player to hurt the tank. It makes our own pick likely to be a lotto pick. With the Miami deal, Herro probably helps us win enough games to land the #7 or #8 pick instead of a top 3 pick.

Herro + Robinson > a mid lottery pick and mid 1st rounder.

Also Herro isn't at level to help us win games consistently yet. I doubt he'd significant hurt the tank.

Gonna have to agree to disagree on both of those statements. Herro and Robinson together should be worth at least 3 or 4 wins, which could make a huge difference in lottery odds.

And Robinson won't be that valuable after you factor that he is about to get a market value deal.

[NatP4]

Suggs-Herro-Bonga-Avdija-Achiuwa sounds pretty fun to me. Winston, Mathews, Robinson, Brown Jr, Hachimura, Bryant all in the mix as well. Assuming we move Bertans at this trade deadline.

[JAR69]

What makes Wiseman a better prospect than Achiuwa at this point? And I understand that the GS proposed deal is centered moreso around the top 3-10 pick.

Achiuwa per36: 17 points 12 rebounds 2 assists 0.3 steals 0.7 blocks 2.8 turnovers.

61.5% TS

on/off differential: -2.1

Wiseman per36: 18.7 points 10.5 rebounds 0.7 assists 0.8 steals 2.7 blocks 3.1 turnovers.

52.4% TS

On/off differential: -14.9

I like Achiuwa more than Wiseman too. The difference is a top 3-10 pick (plus possibly a #15-20 GSW pick) instead of just the one Miami pick in 2025. Also, with the Golden State deal, we don't immediately add a good player to hurt the tank. It makes our own pick likely to be a lotto pick. With the Miami deal, Herro probably helps us win enough games to land the #7 or #8 pick instead of a top 3 pick.

Herro + Robinson > a mid lottery pick and mid 1st rounder.

Also Herro isn't at level to help us win games consistently yet. I doubt he'd significant hurt the tank.

Would you rather have Herro or the Minnesota pick? I asked over on the GS board whether they would trade that pick for Herro. There was no consensus, but just about everyone agreed it was a serious offer that the team would have to consider.

My personal preference is for Herro, but I could understand wanting the pick.

[Frichuela]

I like Achiuwa more than Wiseman too. The difference is a top 3-10 pick (plus possibly a #15-20 GSW pick) instead of just the one Miami pick in 2025. Also, with the Golden State deal, we don't immediately add a good player to hurt the tank. It makes our own pick likely to be a lotto pick. With the Miami deal, Herro probably helps us win enough games to land the #7 or #8 pick instead of a top 3 pick.

Herro + Robinson > a mid lottery pick and mid 1st rounder.

Also Herro isn't at level to help us win games consistently yet. I doubt he'd significant hurt the tank.

Would you rather have Herro or the Minnesota pick? I asked over on the GS board whether they would trade that pick for Herro. There was no consensus, but just about everyone agreed it was a serious offer that the team would have to consider.

My personal preference is for Herro, but I could understand wanting the pick.

Agreed. I am with you on Herro but nice way of framing it.

[nate33]

I like Achiuwa more than Wiseman too. The difference is a top 3-10 pick (plus possibly a #15-20 GSW pick) instead of just the one Miami pick in 2025. Also, with the Golden State deal, we don't immediately add a good player to hurt the tank. It makes our own pick likely to be a lotto pick. With the Miami deal, Herro probably helps us win enough games to land the #7 or #8 pick instead of a top 3 pick.

Herro + Robinson > a mid lottery pick and mid 1st rounder.

Also Herro isn't at level to help us win games consistently yet. I doubt he'd significant hurt the tank.

Would you rather have Herro or the Minnesota pick? I asked over on the GS board whether they would trade that pick for Herro. There was no consensus, but just about everyone agreed it was a serious offer that the team would have to consider.

My personal preference is for Herro, but I could understand wanting the pick.

I'd prefer the pick, not only because of the higher upside in this draft, but by declining Herro, we are worse this year and more likely to land a top pick with our own record.

I'd be intrigued by the Miami deal where we send Herro to Golden State for the Minnesota pick.

[nate33]

Suggs-Herro-Bonga-Avdija-Achiuwa sounds pretty fun to me. Winston, Mathews, Robinson, Brown Jr, Hachimura, Bryant all in the mix as well. Assuming we move Bertans at this trade deadline.

Anything that gets us Suggs sound good to me. But our odds are much better of getting Suggs if we tank harder (without Herro) and if we have the Minnesota pick (which could be used to trade up).

[Topofthekey]

Here's a twist on the Golden State trade. This one sends more useful win-now assets to Golden State, which would help to justify a Brooklyn style package of future picks.

Washington trades: Beal, Bertans, Lopez, Brown
Golden state trades: Wiggins, Oubre, Wiseman

Lopez replaces Wiseman at starting center which helps them in the short term. Bertans would really fill out their depth, doing the shooting that they had hoped Oubre would do. Brown replaces Wiggins production at a much lower price. And obviously, the centerpiece is Beal.

We were probably not going to resign Brown anyway. And if we're rebuilding, Bertans at his salary might be a negative. We will now have the cap room to absorb bad contracts for even more picks.

So now we look at the picks. The Wizards should get:
2021 Minnesota 1st (top 3 protected)
2021 Golden State 1st
2026 Golden State 1st
2022 1st rd pick swap
2023 1st rd pick swap
2025 1st rd pick swap
2027 1st rd pick swap
2021 Minnesota 2nd
2022 Golden State 2nd
2022 Toronto 2nd

Is that enough? Remember that by the 2026 draft, Curry will be 38, Klay 36, and Draymond 35. Even Beal will be 33. And they will have had no assets and no cap room to replenish their depth. Those picks swaps in 2025 and 2027 might be real valuable. And the 2026 pick is almost sure to be lotto pick.

That's pretty light imo

If Wizards were to trade Beal to Warriors, I think Wiseman + Wolves pick is the fair return

Warriors can send whatever unwanted salary they choose to Wizards

But I do think Wiseman is a decent target. He'd be a good fit with Hachimura and Avdija

What I don't get is the obsession with the Heat package, their young players are pretty great, but they are all highly overrated

[gambitx777]

Big ol 5 team block buster here.

Boston :
George hill and davis burtains

Magic :
ish Smith

Pelicans :
bradley beal, jerome robinson

Thunder:
Westbrook, mobamba, 2021 second from boston via okc and 2022 second from boston via hornets

Wizards :
Ariza, redick, darious miller, ball, justin jackson, robert williams 3 , hayes, alexander walker, pritchard,2021 first from pels via LA, 2021 second from pels via wizards, 2021 second boston, 2022 first pels, 2022 second boston, 2023 first pels via LA, 2024 first pels, 2025 first pels via bucks.

Boston, it's an arms race in the east right now. Burtains gives them another weapon off the bench and hill gives them another piece of vet insurance for kemba. Williams 3 and PP are pretty expendable. Spending 4 seconds isn't much when they arnt giving up a first.

Magic need a stop gap PG and ish fits that role, bamba needs a change of location bad and they have a pretty bad log jam up front any way.

Pels obviously they wanna form a big 3 type situation and set up for a run in a rapidly declining west.

Thunder, they are aproching a tank situation. Picks may not be important to them. But they are lacking center options going forward. bamba out of the rotation is young option for them to look at going forward with horfords days numbered. Why take westbrook? Well what good is cap room in okc the next 2 seasons. ? It isn't they are rebuilding and high level free agents aren't gonna just flock there and it would do their young team good to bring in the home town heart for a farewell tour and let him teach the kids how it's done. They also get a young center and two seconds to take westbrook which is a pretty good deal for them considering their situation.

Wizards, well they blow it up all in one. They trade beal and burtains and get 5 firsts and 3 seconds for them not only that but they get 4 good young pieces and ball who isn't awful but might come cheap on his next deal due to underperforming. You cut ariza, reddick, miller, and probably justin jackson I assume unless you wanna cut gil and take a flyer on him I'd cut him. Then if you don't keep jackson you can bring up and promote matthews by cutting gill or lopz and bring in Jordan bell on a 2 way if you keep jackson you can still bring up matthews and cuz gill and lopez. You clear 20 mill in cap room too? What good is that you ask, well you can use that at the dead line to absorbed a contract for a bigger deal for an asset. Yes those picks are probably late but! Who cares, they are assets and if you do a good enough job in evaluating taller or trades they could net you something worth while all while dumping westbrook at a minimum coast.

The trade can't be done till 2/20/21 due to burtians but the money works. And I think it gets us value and opesn up lines for us to trade guys like bryant, mo, or brown down the line or at the dead line or next summer.

Ok rip me apart I'm ready!

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[Dat2U]

Herro + Robinson > a mid lottery pick and mid 1st rounder.

Also Herro isn't at level to help us win games consistently yet. I doubt he'd significant hurt the tank.

Would you rather have Herro or the Minnesota pick? I asked over on the GS board whether they would trade that pick for Herro. There was no consensus, but just about everyone agreed it was a serious offer that the team would have to consider.

My personal preference is for Herro, but I could understand wanting the pick.

I'd prefer the pick, not only because of the higher upside in this draft, but by declining Herro, we are worse this year and more likely to land a top pick with our own record.

I'd be intrigued by the Miami deal where we send Herro to Golden State for the Minnesota pick.

To me this sounds backwards. It doesn't make alot of sense to pass on Herro, not for a higher lottery pick but simply the slight chance at higher lotto pick....In essence... passing on an SG with upside with no guarantee at all that it improves anything. If the goal is tanking, there are other ways to do it than just ensuring you don't take on any talent... which seems at odds with making a Beal trade in the first place. The goal should be to acquire long term pieces that can help... not singularly focus on adding just draft capital.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wishful thinking trade:

Westbrook and Wagner for Lonzo Ball and Steven Adams

Ball is a bust. Westbrook’s still better than Zo. Maybe SVG would like a veteran passing to Zion and Brandon Ingram.

I think this would really improve the Wizards defense.

[Ruzious]

I'd take Herro over the Minnesota pick. The top 3 protection makes it an easy choice. Unless a few players really step up, I see a big dropoff after the top 3.

[nate33]

Big ol 5 team block buster here.

Boston :
George hill and davis burtains

Magic :
ish Smith

Pelicans :
bradley beal, jerome robinson

Thunder:
Westbrook, mobamba, 2021 second from boston via okc and 2022 second from boston via hornets

Wizards :
Ariza, redick, darious miller, ball, justin jackson, robert williams 3 , hayes, alexander walker, pritchard,2021 first from pels via LA, 2021 second from pels via wizards, 2021 second boston, 2022 first pels, 2022 second boston, 2023 first pels via LA, 2024 first pels, 2025 first pels via bucks.

This is awful.

Quantity does not beat quality. All the picks you obtained are either from the Pelicans (with Beal) or from the Lakers, so they're all later than #23 or so. None of the players you get back project to be above average starters and only Alexander-Walker and Pritchard are under a cheap contract for any length of time.

A Philly deal of Beal straight up for Simmons is much better.

So is a Miami deal for Herro and Achiuwa and a distant 1st

So is a Golden State deal for the Minny lotto pick and GSW's 2021 and 2026 pick and 2025 and 2027 pick swaps.

[doclinkin]

But I do think Wiseman is a decent target. He'd be a good fit with Hachimura and Avdija

He'd be a terrible fit next to Hachimura. Neither of them knows how to play positional defense or has rebounding skills and instincts. both are undeveloped physical marvels who are lost when it comes to key principles of how the game is played.

I don't like any of the packages that are being floated. The NBA is in a decade long drought on skilled 2-guards, in a guard attack outside-in era. 29 teams in the league would immediately install Beal as their starter (the Nets only exception). Here we are looking at offers of table scraps. Losing Beal commits hard to a complete reset in all respects. And for the team who lands him they add the consummate good team mate and an ideal fit at the position: efficient and good at every basketball related skill, able to play next to alpha dog stars and also take over when it's his turn. The package for him may be something short of Unibrow level, but I'd expect a bidding war if he were the target, especially given the relatively bare free agent market coming up. Rather than bid against ourselves I'd rather wait and see the potentially ridiculous offers that popped up if the league thought they could acquire him and the auction was opened up.

Personally, I'd rather see how the team developed with Westbrook sitting out and new players given room to grow around him. So irritated about the Wall Russ swap. I feel like the chemistry would have been a positive here and the value of the former Wallstar would have been on the increase if we felt we did need to make a change at the end of the year.

[nate33]

But I do think Wiseman is a decent target. He'd be a good fit with Hachimura and Avdija

He'd be a terrible fit next to Hachimura. Neither of them knows how to play positional defense or has rebounding skills and instincts. both are undeveloped physical marvels who are lost when it comes to key principles of how the game is played.

I don't like any of the packages that are being floated. The NBA is in a decade long drought on skilled 2-guards, in a guard attack outside-in era. 29 teams in the league would immediately install Beal as their starter (the Nets only exception). Here we are looking at offers of table scraps. Losing Beal commits hard to a complete reset in all respects. And for the team who lands him they add the consummate good team mate and an ideal fit at the position: efficient and good at every basketball related skill, able to play next to alpha dog stars and also take over when it's his turn. The package for him may be something short of Unibrow level, but I'd expect a bidding war if he were the target, especially given the relatively bare free agent market coming up. Rather than bid against ourselves I'd rather wait and see the potentially ridiculous offers that popped up if the league thought they could acquire him and the auction was opened up.

Personally, I'd rather see how the team developed with Westbrook sitting out and new players given room to grow around him. So irritated about the Wall Russ swap. I feel like the chemistry would have been a positive here and the value of the former Wallstar would have been on the increase if we felt we did need to make a change at the end of the year.

The best option is to keep Beal. No question.

But the worst option is for Beal to walk in free agency in 2022.

[queridiculo]

Yeah, to me all of these scenarios start with Beal making it abundantly clear that he doesn't see a future in Washington.

The NBA landscape is going to looks so different two or three years from now, who's to say that Washington, with Beal opting in, isn't going to be in a position to make some major moves in FA to build a team that can compete during the prime years of his career?

It sucks that Washington isn't further along but when you finally develop a player of Beal's caliber, don't you owe it to yourself to try to see it through to its conclusion?

[nate33]

This weird hiatus in the middle of the season is getting people antsy.

One way to look at it is that the Wizards are the 3rd worst team in the league before losing their starting center and starting PG to injury. It's understandable why many are thinking that blowing it all up and rebuilding is the right option.

On the other hand, one could just as easily argue that the Wizards have been competitive in nearly every game, and have recently gotten their act together, winning 3 of their last 6 including two close losses to very good Philly and Boston teams. Their net rating places them as the 17th best team in the league. Furthermore, there's a possibility that Westbrook (a half-injured Westbrook, anyway) was detrimental to their performance. They're 2-1 without him and he'll be gone for another 3 weeks. We won't see any more 3 PG lineups or Westbrook at SG for a while.

So maybe we should stay the course and all these Beal trade ideas are just a waste of time.

[doclinkin]

This weird hiatus in the middle of the season is getting people antsy.

One way to look at it is that the Wizards are the 3rd worst team in the league before losing their starting center and starting PG to injury. It's understandable why many are thinking that blowing it all up and rebuilding is the right option.

On the other hand, one could just as easily argue that the Wizards have been competitive in nearly every game, and have recently gotten their act together, winning 3 of their last 6 including two close losses to very good Philly and Boston teams. Their net rating places them as the 17th best team in the league. Furthermore, there's a possibility that Westbrook (a half-injured Westbrook, anyway) was detrimental to their performance. They're 2-1 without him and he'll be gone for another 3 weeks. We won't see any more 3 PG lineups or Westbrook at SG for a while.

So maybe we should stay the course and all these Beal trade ideas are just a waste of time.

I think it is a reaction to Westbrook sucking and us needing some hope given that he is un-tradable. Still, even with the idea that Beal may not re-sign, if we managed to struggle while developing good signs from our youth and land a top-4 pick, Beal may still see this as a fantastic place to develop his legacy. Mentoring hyper talents who come to the peak of their abilities when he is a savvy veteran. The most realistic way to win it all is with the best player in the league on your squad. LeBJ is at the tail end of his reign. I don't see who is Next in line to become king. That player may not yet be in the league. That player may be in this draft. If Beal (who owns an AAU team) sees the Wiz land that supernova talent, on a squad that is built around him, why would he choose to leave for a one or two year run to a single ring, when he can mentor a potential dynasty?

The wrinkle is Westbrook as tank commander stunting the development of good players next to him. He brings good attitude but he can't do it anymore like he used to. Can't exemplify HOW to do what his attitude suggests they should be doing. And like a superhero version of IT he exemplifies bad habits of selfish hero ball play and shot chucking instead of the whole team play that the Euro/FIBA players grew up with.

I watched the Tony Parker documentary recently, it was pretty good. As a toss off one euroball brain they interviewed mentioned that the PG is an American creation and style of play. Tony was trying to do what otherwise americans generally do. That is exactly right. In international ball every player dribbles, passes, creates, attacks, moves. Here that usage rate funnels to a specialist. Euro ball has Troy Browns and Sartoranskys all over the court. Here we draft skilled players then let them stand around and watch as one guy hucks it up from stupid ranges.

WE need a different coach. And we need Westbrook to rest, maybe come off the bench, while we let our young guys do what they already do well. With a different coach, well, we could probably contend for the Euroleague championship. We would totally crush the Isreali premier league. :Clown:

[Topofthekey]

But I do think Wiseman is a decent target. He'd be a good fit with Hachimura and Avdija

He'd be a terrible fit next to Hachimura. Neither of them knows how to play positional defense or has rebounding skills and instincts. both are undeveloped physical marvels who are lost when it comes to key principles of how the game is played.

I mean, it's obvious they're both still a WIP

Neither of them are good positional defenders, true, but Wiseman has the size to contend with the premier bigs of the league, where Rui does not. He has the tools, he just needs experience. Right now, he's still quite easily beaten by savvier, more experienced bigs, which tends to get him into foul trouble. But it's not difficult to see him improve in this area as he develops

He's has also shown a knack for protecting the rim, another area where Rui is lacking. Offensively, Wiseman has a good shooting form, and is unafraid to shoot 3s. It certainly looks like he can develop into a premier 3nD big - the kind of big that would complement Rui well

[Frichuela]

This weird hiatus in the middle of the season is getting people antsy.

One way to look at it is that the Wizards are the 3rd worst team in the league before losing their starting center and starting PG to injury. It's understandable why many are thinking that blowing it all up and rebuilding is the right option.

On the other hand, one could just as easily argue that the Wizards have been competitive in nearly every game, and have recently gotten their act together, winning 3 of their last 6 including two close losses to very good Philly and Boston teams. Their net rating places them as the 17th best team in the league. Furthermore, there's a possibility that Westbrook (a half-injured Westbrook, anyway) was detrimental to their performance. They're 2-1 without him and he'll be gone for another 3 weeks. We won't see any more 3 PG lineups or Westbrook at SG for a while.

So maybe we should stay the course and all these Beal trade ideas are just a waste of time.

I think it is a reaction to Westbrook sucking and us needing some hope given that he is un-tradable. Still, even with the idea that Beal may not re-sign, if we managed to struggle while developing good signs from our youth and land a top-4 pick, Beal may still see this as a fantastic place to develop his legacy. Mentoring hyper talents who come to the peak of their abilities when he is a savvy veteran. The most realistic way to win it all is with the best player in the league on your squad. LeBJ is at the tail end of his reign. I don't see who is Next in line to become king. That player may not yet be in the league. That player may be in this draft. If Beal (who owns an AAU team) sees the Wiz land that supernova talent, on a squad that is built around him, why would he choose to leave for a one or two year run to a single ring, when he can mentor a potential dynasty?

The wrinkle is Westbrook as tank commander stunting the development of good players next to him. He brings good attitude but he can't do it anymore like he used to. Can't exemplify HOW to do what his attitude suggests they should be doing. And like a superhero version of IT he exemplifies bad habits of selfish hero ball play and shot chucking instead of the whole team play that the Euro/FIBA players grew up with.

I watched the Tony Parker documentary recently, it was pretty good. As a toss off one euroball brain they interviewed mentioned that the PG is an American creation and style of play. Tony was trying to do what otherwise americans generally do. That is exactly right. In international ball every player dribbles, passes, creates, attacks, moves. Here that usage rate funnels to a specialist. Euro ball has Troy Browns and Sartoranskys all over the court. Here we draft skilled players then let them stand around and watch as one guy hucks it up from stupid ranges.

WE need a different coach. And we need Westbrook to rest, maybe come off the bench, while we let our young guys do what they already do well. With a different coach, well, we could probably contend for the Euroleague championship. We would totally crush the Isreali premier league. :Clown:

Jokes aside, and before considering any Beal trades, the first step should be to get rid of Brooks ASAP and see what another coach can do with the current team.

The problem is the inaction and lack of forward-thinking of the Ted/Tommy tandem. Not to mention Ted's cheapness. The fact is that the clock is ticking for Beal...unless -as some of you suggest- he agrees to sign another extension.