Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

[queridiculo]

Tommy's drafts have been a disaster so far, no need to sugarcoat it.

[gambitx777]

Tommy's drafts have been a disaster so far, no need to sugarcoat it.

I wouldn't call them disasters.
Rui is a really solid young player.
Deni was showing promise and is way to early to tell how he's gonna turn out.
Yes he wiffed on some seconds but who hasn't .
You cetainly can not call this year's draft a disaster it just happened.

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[NatP4]

Man, we coulda had Butler, Mathews and Murphy as 3rd string PG, SG and SF instead of Neto, Kispert and Todd.

I could definitely see Butler and Murphy as quality starters on a playoff team a couple of years down the road, and Mathews as a 25 mpg rotation player. I'm not sure if any among Neto, Kispert and Todd are destined to be starters who can stay on the floor in a playoff game.

I’m fine with the Kispert pick, but not re-signing Mathews, and not taking Butler at 31 were both egregious errors.

I said it all year long, Butler is going to be an impact 6th man for a long time. A quality playoff contributor, that impacts the game on both ends. Highest level of basketball IQ and competitiveness in the draft next to Suggs.

[Ruzious]

Man, we coulda had Butler, Mathews and Murphy as 3rd string PG, SG and SF instead of Neto, Kispert and Todd.

I could definitely see Butler and Murphy as quality starters on a playoff team a couple of years down the road, and Mathews as a 25 mpg rotation player. I'm not sure if any among Neto, Kispert and Todd are destined to be starters who can stay on the floor in a playoff game.

I’m fine with the Kispert pick, but not re-signing Mathews, and not taking Butler at 31 were both egregious errors.

I said it all year long, Butler is going to be an impact 6th man for a long time. A quality playoff contributor, that impacts the game on both ends. Highest level of basketball IQ and competitiveness in the draft next to Suggs.

People are raving about Davion Mitchell, but I still think Butler will be the better NBA player.

[dckingsfan]

People are raving about Davion Mitchell, but I still think Butler will be the better NBA player.

I think they are both going to be solid NBA players. I am interested to see how this ages... but to your point - we should have nabbed Butler when we had the chance.

[miller31time]

People are raving about Davion Mitchell, but I still think Butler will be the better NBA player.

I think they are both going to be solid NBA players. I am interested to see how this ages... but to your point - we should have nabbed Butler when we had the chance.

And/or traded up from 16 when we had the chance and grab Mitchell as I (and others) were pushing for on draft day.

[payitforward]

Tommy's drafts have been a disaster so far, no need to sugarcoat it.

I wouldn't call them disasters.
Rui is a really solid young player.
Deni was showing promise and is way to early to tell how he's gonna turn out.
Yes he wiffed on some seconds but who hasn't .

Sorry, no.

As to Rui in'19, obviously the door is not closed on him! But, calling him "a really solid young player" based on his work so far is a substantial overstatement. He wasn't good as a rookie, then he got worse in some ways & better in some ways his second year (his numbers overall went down not up). Rui may still turn into a good player, why not? But that's not the question here; the question is whether he was the optimal use of the #9 pick that year, & the answer has to be no. It would have been perfectly possible to come out of the 2019 draft with 3 players who are already proven good: e.g. Brandon Clarke, Keldon Johnson, & Daniel Gafford.

In 2020, the draft of Avdija can't be judged yet. But, instead of trading up from #37 to grab Xavier Tillman, we traded down to pick Cassius Winston & get what will be a low R2 pick in 2024. Foolish. I actually like Winston, but his upside is back up PG. If we were going to pick down there, at least take a swing on someone like Paul Reed. But, Tillman would have been far better.

2021 -- whether Kispert will be an NBA player is an open question -- as, in fairness, can be said of pretty much anybody coming out of that draft. Still, taking a graduating senior whose game is more or less one-dimensional at #15....? Did we even try to trade that pick down (e.g. instead of moving #22)?

But, leaving Kispert aside, even with the trade of #22 for Holiday & #31, the fact that the Knicks traded #32 for #34 & #36 certainly means that we could have gotten the same return for #31 -- how not? Thus we certainly could have gotten 2 of McBride, Thor, Dosonmu, Butler & Wieskamp. In that part of the draft especially, taking 2 guys definitely increases your chances of getting a good player (& maybe two good players!).

Assume for a moment we'd picked Alparen Sengun, Jared Butler & Joe Wieskamp (or even Sharife Cooper!) in R2. I'd prefer that to Kispert (low ceiling) & Todd (total long shot).

Tommy has not been good in the draft. Fortunately, he's been extremely good elsewhere.

[DCZards]

By your standards PIF, which is essentially pulling an inside straight every draft, very few GMs have had good drafts.

[gambitx777]

Tommy's drafts have been a disaster so far, no need to sugarcoat it.

I wouldn't call them disasters.
Rui is a really solid young player.
Deni was showing promise and is way to early to tell how he's gonna turn out.
Yes he wiffed on some seconds but who hasn't .

Sorry, no.

As to Rui in'19, obviously the door is not closed on him! But, calling him "a really solid young player" based on his work so far is a substantial overstatement. He wasn't good as a rookie, then he got worse in some ways & better in some ways his second year (his numbers overall went down not up). Rui may still turn into a good player, why not? But that's not the question here; the question is whether he was the optimal use of the #9 pick that year, & the answer has to be no. It would have been perfectly possible to come out of the 2019 draft with 3 players who are already proven good: e.g. Brandon Clarke, Keldon Johnson, & Daniel Gafford.

In 2020, the draft of Avdija can't be judged yet. But, instead of trading up from #37 to grab Xavier Tillman, we traded down to pick Cassius Winston & get what will be a low R2 pick in 2024. Foolish. I actually like Winston, but his upside is back up PG. If we were going to pick down there, at least take a swing on someone like Paul Reed. But, Tillman would have been far better.

2021 -- whether Kispert will be an NBA player is an open question -- as, in fairness, can be said of pretty much anybody coming out of that draft. Still, taking a graduating senior whose game is more or less one-dimensional at #15....? Did we even try to trade that pick down (e.g. instead of moving #22)?

But, leaving Kispert aside, even with the trade of #22 for Holiday & #31, the fact that the Knicks traded #32 for #34 & #36 certainly means that we could have gotten the same return for #31 -- how not? Thus we certainly could have gotten 2 of McBride, Thor, Dosonmu, Butler & Wieskamp. In that part of the draft especially, taking 2 guys definitely increases your chances of getting a good player (& maybe two good players!).

Assume for a moment we'd picked Alparen Sengun, Jared Butler & Joe Wieskamp (or even Sharife Cooper!) in R2. I'd prefer that to Kispert (low ceiling) & Todd (total long shot).

Tommy has not been good in the draft. Fortunately, he's been extremely good elsewhere.

Piff I'm with you! I always enjoy trading back and playing those games. But, I don't think you can say that so blatantly, we don't know if he tried to make those trades or not most of the time and you get in to these what ifs.

I got by this
0 horrid 5 good enough 10 perfect.

I would say his drafting has been a 6 in the good enough passible range.

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[nate33]

Evan Mobley is going to be so good!

The guy does it all. He had 15 points, 10 boards, 4 assists, 3 blocks, 2 steals and only 1 turnover last night. He was making passes out of the high post, on the fast break, and as the ball handler in a pick-and-roll with Markkanen. He scored as a roll man, in the post, and from 3. He was stuffing shots at the rim and making steals in the passing lanes. And it all came with an economy of motion that reminds one of Tim Duncan.

Watch on YouTube

[nate33]

But, leaving Kispert aside, even with the trade of #22 for Holiday & #31, the fact that the Knicks traded #32 for #34 & #36 certainly means that we could have gotten the same return for #31 -- how not? Thus we certainly could have gotten 2 of McBride, Thor, Dosonmu, Butler & Wieskamp. In that part of the draft especially, taking 2 guys definitely increases your chances of getting a good player (& maybe two good players!).

Man, I had forgotten about that. If we would have traded #31 for #34 and #36, we could have had Butler at #34 and someone else at #36. Heck, I would have been fine trading that #36 pick for a future 2nd to help replenish our stockpile of 2nds lost in the Westbrook trade.

I'm not upset that we didn't draft Sengun because I honestly didn't see a spot for him given our depth at the position, but it certainly looks like Trey Murphy would have been a better player and a better fit than Kispert.

[Ruzious]

But, leaving Kispert aside, even with the trade of #22 for Holiday & #31, the fact that the Knicks traded #32 for #34 & #36 certainly means that we could have gotten the same return for #31 -- how not? Thus we certainly could have gotten 2 of McBride, Thor, Dosonmu, Butler & Wieskamp. In that part of the draft especially, taking 2 guys definitely increases your chances of getting a good player (& maybe two good players!).

Man, I had forgotten about that. If we would have traded #31 for #34 and #36, we could have had Butler at #34 and someone else at #36. Heck, I would have been fine trading that #36 pick for a future 2nd to help replenish our stockpile of 2nds lost in the Westbrook trade.

I'm not upset that we didn't draft Sengun because I honestly didn't see a spot for him given our depth at the position, but it certainly looks like Trey Murphy would have been a better player and a better fit than Kispert.

And knowing they could have gotten Wieskamp with one of those picks, there would have been no need to pick Kispert at 15. Instead, they could have taken a chance on someone like Sengun or Garuba or even Jalen Johnson - or traded for a future FRP.

[Ruzious]

The Lakers are so old (How old are they?). They're so old - they have 8 players on their roster older than Westbrook.

[doclinkin]

Evan Mobley is going to be so good!

The guy does it all. He had 15 points, 10 boards, 4 assists, 3 blocks, 2 steals and only 1 turnover last night. He was making passes out of the high post, on the fast break, and as the ball handler in a pick-and-roll with Markkanen. He scored as a roll man, in the post, and from 3. He was stuffing shots at the rim and making steals in the passing lanes. And it all came with an economy of motion that reminds one of Tim Duncan.

Watch on YouTube

Yeah but we won the play-in games, so all's well.

[Ruzious]

Interesting that Cleveland started the huge front line of Jarrett Allen, Mobley, and Lauri Markkanen - all playing major minutes. And Kevin Love played 20 minutes off the bench.

[FAH1223]

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[Dat2U]

So two board favorites from the '19 draft are out of the league. Samanic getting cut surprised me but Pop won't stand for a questionable work ethic. Sekou simply didn't have the motor or skill to compensate for poor instincts. Teams are no longer showing a great deal a patience with draftees. I'd say the Wizards tend to show more patience than most other franchises.

[doclinkin]

So two board favorites from the '19 draft are out of the league. Samanic getting cut surprised me but Pop won't stand for a questionable work ethic. Sekou simply didn't have the motor or skill to compensate for poor instincts. Teams are no longer showing a great deal a patience with draftees. I'd say the Wizards tend to show more patience than most other franchises.

Yeah Samanic was my dark horse. I think I was the only one riding that filly. Mostly because I was tired of the Brandon Clarke talk

I was surprised as well, given the murmurs of his improvement over the past couple years. I was banking on a breakout year to redeem my scouting report. If you have a stretch big who puts up 14/8/2ast/1b/1s (per 36) you figure there is some talent there. But his numbers and progress were spotty. Flashes only. Hearing that he came into camp out of shape though it only makes sense that he was cut. You can't get better if you don't work on it. So goes Luka Samanic.

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100% chance if we had a roster spot Tommy would bring him in on a try-out.

[Ruzious]

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That 3rd tweet... you know Pop won't stand for that garbage. Too bad the kid is so lazy - he looks like a gifted player.

[payitforward]

But, leaving Kispert aside, even with the trade of #22 for Holiday & #31, the fact that the Knicks traded #32 for #34 & #36 certainly means that we could have gotten the same return for #31 -- how not? Thus we certainly could have gotten 2 of McBride, Thor, Dosonmu, Butler & Wieskamp. In that part of the draft especially, taking 2 guys definitely increases your chances of getting a good player (& maybe two good players!).

Man, I had forgotten about that. If we would have traded #31 for #34 and #36, we could have had Butler at #34 and someone else at #36. Heck, I would have been fine trading that #36 pick for a future 2nd to help replenish our stockpile of 2nds lost in the Westbrook trade.

I'm not upset that we didn't draft Sengun because I honestly didn't see a spot for him given our depth at the position, but it certainly looks like Trey Murphy would have been a better player and a better fit than Kispert.

And knowing they could have gotten Wieskamp with one of those picks, there would have been no need to pick Kispert at 15. Instead, they could have taken a chance on someone like Sengun or Garuba or even Jalen Johnson - or traded for a future FRP.

Yes, this is more or less how I viewed it.

&, sure, trading that #36 for a future R2 would have been one rational option. Except, for a #36 pick in this draft you'd want to get two not one future R2 picks -- or a lower pick this year plus a future R2 pick.

In this year's draft, however, I don't think I'd have done that -- there were just too too many high-level prospects. Either I'd have taken guys with both #34 & #36, or I'd have taken someone with one of them & traded the other one down to wind up with 3 guys out of R2.

I assume you were all watching as Jericho Sims -- whom the Knicks picked @ #58 this year, & whom I mentioned several times as one of my targets in a trade-down -- recorded 13 rebounds, 3 steals & a block against us in 26 minutes the other night???