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The Amazingly Suck Theodore Leonsis Thread

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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1681 » by payitforward » Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:14 pm

doclinkin wrote:...play in games it is.

I can't see how we have any chance at all to make it to a play-in game -- i.e. to the 10th spot or better.

Last year we were #12 out of 15. We managed 35 wins. But, we closed 25-44 -- a far more accurate measure of the team we were.

Are we going to pass the Knicks, an improving young team that just added Jalen Brunson? Dream on.

Above them is Charlotte, another improving young team. They won 43 games to claim #10. They lost Miles Bridges, who was fool enough to throw away his NBA career, but even so... no, we are not going to win more games than Charlotte.

It is more likely that one of Indy or Detroit passes in the standings than that we pass either the Knicks or Hornets.

25-44 projects to under 30 wins on the season. If KP plays 2000+ minutes, we should certainly expect to do better than that. Not, however, well enough to predict us having any part at all in playin or playoff games.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1682 » by doclinkin » Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:06 pm

payitforward wrote:
doclinkin wrote:...play in games it is.

I can't see how we have any chance at all to make it to a play-in game -- i.e. to the 10th spot or better.


I can see how we could. But you know, I'm a visionary that way :clown:

Still anything that keeps us in the lottery is fine with me this year. Personally I think we will see a tankstakes even among the better talented EC teams. Suspicious injuries. Load management plans with extreme caution. Fluky line-ups that their stat gurus say will give them the best/worst +/- against our squad. Other teams are better managed than us. Or properly mis-managed. The teams that have no shot to win it all, no matter how much better talented they are, will be smart enough to let the Wiz steal games from them. If they can get away with it, teams 7-12 are all going to field teams that look like they climbed out of a clown car. Can the Wiz beat any team in the East if that team rests its best player? Or best 2? Or they stay small when we go large to ride out a losing run as long as they can. If we are actually playing to win, and they are coaching for respectable losses, yeah we can.



Which is why this is an especially appropriate topic for the Ted thread.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1683 » by doclinkin » Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:52 pm

Dat2U wrote:Nets aren't detonating. They added the ultimate glue guy in Royce O'Neale to the dirty work, something they were desperately missing last year. Also added T.J. Warren and getting a healthy Joe Harris back. Not to mention Ben is finally healthy. They may not like each other but that's not a requirement of a contender.


It is if one of your all-stars wants out. Both Kyrie and Simmons need the ball to operate at top effectiveness. Durant plays on or off ball, but if those two don't mesh it won't be fun in the New York media crucible.

Brooklyn has nice pieces, but looking at the haul recouped by Gobert and Spida, imagine what Durant could pull in. Their front office has sniped back and forth with KD. Ask yourself if you think he will play out the rest of his contract there (to 2026). If the answer is 'no' then when is the best time to trade him? Consider that he's got rebuilt legs, and has taken a few nagging injuries even after being out for surgery for a year. He reasonably could take rest days and cite injuries if he's unhappy. That tanks his value. If you want the biggest haul for sending him out, you do it early. They've got 2 1st round picks this year, their own and Houston. They could instantly re-tool with one year of suckage. If you were GM would you trade KD at this point in his career? I would, for a haul equivalent to: Gobert level reimbursement + championship resume sweetener x MVP history = historic talent pool of picks.

Rehab the value of either Kyrie with a full season post-COVID restrictions or Simmons without the Philly hate and then see what you can add to that talent core if you trade one or the other as well.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1684 » by badinage » Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:44 pm

payitforward wrote:
doclinkin wrote:...play in games it is.

We managed 35 wins. But, we closed 25-44 -- a far more accurate measure of the team were.


That’s an inaccurate measure. Only in 17 of those games did the team have the Zinger, who was getting acculturated to a new franchise and new city and new system. And in those 17, the Zinger was without Beal.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1685 » by payitforward » Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:35 pm

Fair enough, the word "measure" isn't right. But that was our result nonetheless, & it ain't irrelevant!

All the same, you do point to 2 of the 3 key potential change factors for sure:

1. Beal -- is he back to the player of 2-3 years ago.
2. Porzingis -- does he (finally!) manage to play through a full & healthy season.

OTOH, you may also over-estimate the positive result those two factors could/would produce:

1. Bradley Beal has been a terrific player, but even when healthy he's not a superstar; he's not one of the tip-top players in the league.
2. Even in his best years, KP has not laid down great numbers. Just hasn't done it, for whatever reason.

It would still be great to have Brad at or near his career best. & for Porzingis at least to have the opportunity finally, by way of a healthy season, to take that jump we would all like him to take.

For that matter, Morris is a significant upgrade over Smith, & Wright is a really really good & very underrated player.

&, as I've written before, if Avdija improves as much this year as he did last year & if Kispert takes the kind of year-2 jump Deni took, why then -- assuming a positive result for Beal & KP -- I guess it's conceivable we could flirt with (not reach) a .500 record this year.

Would that get us in the Playin festival. No. Not at all likely.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1686 » by mhd » Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:04 pm

Josh Robbins (from the Athletic) wrote a terrific piece on the hamster wheel of mediocrity that Turd mandates in a mailbag piece:

"The answer has many layers, but the most basic answer can be summed up this way: Ted Leonsis.

“We will never, ever tank,” Leonsis told reporters nearly four years ago during a team trip to London.

A team can undertake several kinds of rebuilds, but you mentioned the Baltimore Orioles. It’s fair to say that the Orioles went with the most drastic kind of rebuild: a total teardown. Just how ruthlessly did Elias pursue his plan? Put it this way: Baltimore lost 115, 108 and 110 in their first three 162-game seasons with Elias at the helm. And as you note, even this year, with the Birds challenging for a wild card berth, Elias still dealt Trey Mancini and the team’s lone All-Star, Jorge López, at the trade deadline. Those trades exhibited a ruthless devotion to the Orioles’ long-term plan.

As others have written, Leonsis and the Wizards likely made a mistake by not trading Bradley Beal a couple of years ago, when Beal’s value was at its highest and the team could have secured the best possible return.

But that ship had sailed this past season, with Beal on the cusp of unrestricted free agency.

Let’s also get one thing straight: Going with a complete teardown and gunning for the No. 1 overall pick in multiple drafts would have been a decision that needed to be OK’d by Leonsis himself. Tommy Sheppard would have had to gain permission from Leonsis, and I suspect Sheppard’s counterparts with the NBA’s 29 other teams would have had to seek their franchises’ owners’ go-ahead, too, before pursuing the same strategy with their teams.

The final decision should indeed rest with a team’s owner, because the decision to tank almost always carries significant business consequences, sometimes long-term consequences. Two months ago, the highly respected baseball writer Richard Justice said on The Tony Kornheiser Show that the Houston Astros’ attendance still hasn’t recovered completely from the team’s decision to bottom out during the early 2010s — even though the Astros went on to win the World Series in 2017! Houston drew over 3 million fans during the 2006 and 2007 seasons, even though Minute Maid Park wasn’t in its first or second season, and hasn’t broken three million since then.

So while Leonsis may be missing the big picture as it relates to giving the Wizards their best chance to win a championship, he would be well within his rights to want to avoid a total cratering in attendance and interest in the short term, if that’s his reasoning. I’ve seen this occur firsthand with the Orlando Magic, who arguably have lost a generation of fans following their decision to tank after they acceded to Dwight Howard’s trade demand in 2012

(By the way, Leonsis deserves the opportunity to explain his point of view, but it shouldn’t occur only with a team-owned enterprise. I’ve put in requests to interview Leonsis since I started on this beat, and the most recent request still has not been answered by his chief spokesperson.)

The Wizards did attempt to build from the ground up early in Leonsis’ tenure as the franchise’s majority owner, but even though the team drafted John Wall first overall in 2010 and Beal third in 2012, it never advanced beyond the Eastern Conference semifinals.

Which brings me to my next point: A good number of full rebuilds never result in even reaching a conference finals series. Just because a team bottoms out does not mean they are guaranteed to succeed, especially these days in a world with flattened-out lottery odds.

One of the reasons the 2022-23 NBA season will be fascinating is the relatively large number of teams that appear to want to compete for the best possible lottery odds, all in an effort to draft Victor Wembanyama first (or possibly Scoot Henderson second). Those teams include Detroit, Houston, Indiana, Oklahoma City, Orlando, San Antonio and Utah. Just imagine the amount of ugly basketball and unseemly posturing that will be required to out-tank fellow tankers in the Wembanyama chase. Securing the best lottery odds in 2023 will require sacrifices similar to the ones Mike Elias engineered for the Orioles.

You can disagree with Leonsis’ directive not to tank, but he can argue that he doesn’t want to subject Wizards fans to multiple 20-win seasons.

My last point is perhaps the most important one: Teams can draft franchise-changing talents in the middle of the first round, and sometimes later. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Devin Booker, Kawhi Leonard, Domantas Sabonis, Klay Thompson, Bam Adebayo and Donovan Mitchell all were drafted in the 10-15 range. Rudy Gobert went 27th in 2013. Nikola Jokić? Forty-first in 2014.

So the path the Wizards have chosen can yield major success.

But it can also produce year after year of mediocrity. That’s the danger they’re in now, and it’s up to them to prove the naysayers wrong — or, as New York Jets coach Robert Saleh has said, “taking receipts.”"


Turd is a coward. Never answers any tough questions. Hasn't given a real interview in over a decade.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1687 » by payitforward » Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:32 am

He's not a coward, he simply has supreme confidence in himself & cares nothing for what anyone else thinks.

In a sense, he's right too. As long as people keep coming to the phone booth & spending their $$ to watch a trash team there's no reason to change.

If failure has no consequences, as is the case with the Washington Wizards, then why would anyone expect growth? Above all, why would anyone expect significant success, like competing for a title for example. Or even competing for the EC finals.

That is never going to happen. In fact, it's far more likely that we get worse over the next few years than that we get better.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1688 » by payitforward » Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:22 am

Keep in mind, however, that Ted Leonsis is still NOT the reason this franchise is terrible. He's not the reason we will be fielding a bad team again this year.

The reason we are bad is entirely our FO. Much as I like Tommy, much as I've been impressed by his ability to get us past the John Wall era, his utter inability to manage the draft (or the inability of the people he has around him -- amounts to the same thing) is the sole cause of our misery.

In 2018 (the last draft of the Ernie era -- but I'm convinced Tommy ran the draft even then), we had a chance to take one of the premier defensive bigs of our time, Robert Williams. It's likely we could have traded down & gotten him. We also had the chance, in R2, to take either DeAnthony Melton or Hamidou Diallo or Jarred Vanderbilt (via a trade) or more than one of them. Instead, we made a mediocre R1 pick at best & a terrible R2 pick.

In 2019, we had the possibility of trading down to come away with Brandon Clarke, Keldon Johnson & Daniel Gafford (&, keep in mind that if we'd drafted well the year before we wouldn't have had Troy Brown to trade for him!). Plus Caleb Martin undrafted. We did get Garrison Mathews undrafted -- the best draft day move the Wizards have made in the 4 years Tommy has been at the helm.

In 2020, we could have had Tyrese Halliburton. Deni has been good & is improving, but obviously Halliburton has been even better. But, worse than that, IMO, was that we failed to take Boston's offer of a R1 pick for Bertans. That would have gotten us Desmond Bane (Memphis traded for the pick). Nor did we trade up in R2 to get Xavier Tillman (Memphis did). Or, just as good, using the #37 we had on Tre Jones. Nor did we buy a pick further down to get Kenyon Martin Jr.

In 2021, Kispert was a good pick, but we traded the #22 pick that had come to us from LA, a foolish move, since Aaron Holiday turned into nothing & Isaiah Todd was nothing from the get-go. But, even given the trade why did we not acquire #34 & #36 from OKC for the #31? The Knicks got those 2 picks for the #32 !! We'd have come away with Ayo Dosunmu & whomever else you like best -- Herb Jones, Miles McBride...?

The 2022 draft was another demonstration of incompetence. We should have come away with Tari Eason, TyTy Washington or Christian Koloko, at least one other extra prospect out of R2 (Gui Santos? Kendall Brown? Jabari Walker?) plus Nzosa (if they couldn't do without him) & both Kenneth Lofton Jr. & Trevion Williams undrafted.

Was every last bit of this possible? Of course not! Was much of it possible? You bet it was. Let me list the 10 key draft acquistions we should have & could have made:

Robert Williams, DeAnthony Melton, Jarred Vanderbilt, Brandon Clarke, Keldon Johnson, Daniel Gafford, Tyrese Halliburton, Desmond Bane, Tre Jones, Ayo Dosunmu, Herb Jones, Tari Eason, Christian Koloko, Gui Santos, Kenneth Lofton Jr., & Trevion Williams.

That's not all, but it's enough. &, of course, no one can be so good at the draft as to manage all of that. But if I take the top 3 obvious benefit from each of those drafts, I am already looking at the Wizards as the best young team in the league. The Wizards instead of Memphis.

None of that is on Ted Leonsis -- except in the sense that he hasn't built a management team for the Wizards that can compete w/ the best FOs in the league (e.g. Memphis!). That failure is a big enough sin for me!
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1689 » by Dat2U » Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:32 am

payitforward wrote:He's not a coward, he simply has supreme confidence in himself & cares nothing for what anyone else thinks.

In a sense, he's right too. As long as people keep coming to the phone booth & spending their $$ to watch a trash team there's no reason to change.

If failure has no consequences, as is the case with the Washington Wizards, then why would anyone expect growth? Above all, why would anyone expect significant success, like competing for a title for example. Or even competing for the EC finals.

That is never going to happen. In fact, it's far more likely that we get worse over the next few years than that we get better.


Wishful thinking sir. I'd love to see some high draft picks but I think they'll keep making trades or sacrifice young & future assets to avoid hitting rock bottom.

John Collins is name I'd watch closely. Some form of Kuz/Barton + young player could be a possibilty. That could put us even with the Knicks or Bulls (w/o a healthy Lonzo) in the play-in chase.

Maybe the only thing that could change that is season ending injuries to Beal/KP. Hell, even then I wouldn't count on them to tank.

No matter what we do I have a hard time seeing us pick higher than 8th or 9th the next couple of years.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1690 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:21 pm

doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:
doclinkin wrote:...play in games it is.

I can't see how we have any chance at all to make it to a play-in game -- i.e. to the 10th spot or better.


I can see how we could. But you know, I'm a visionary that way :clown:

Still anything that keeps us in the lottery is fine with me this year. Personally I think we will see a tankstakes even among the better talented EC teams. Suspicious injuries. Load management plans with extreme caution. Fluky line-ups that their stat gurus say will give them the best/worst +/- against our squad. Other teams are better managed than us. Or properly mis-managed. The teams that have no shot to win it all, no matter how much better talented they are, will be smart enough to let the Wiz steal games from them. If they can get away with it, teams 7-12 are all going to field teams that look like they climbed out of a clown car. Can the Wiz beat any team in the East if that team rests its best player? Or best 2? Or they stay small when we go large to ride out a losing run as long as they can. If we are actually playing to win, and they are coaching for respectable losses, yeah we can.



Which is why this is an especially appropriate topic for the Ted thread.


I want it. I want the double unicorn lineup.

Morris
Beal
Deni
Victor
KP

Tank, tank, tank, tank, tank
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1691 » by 9 and 20 » Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:31 pm

This guy looks like he's 9 feet tall, playing on a 9 foot rim. Opposition looking like the Gar Heard Wizards.

Leonsis don't deserve this, though. He deserves the pain of rotten urinal cake flakes sprinkled onto his morning oatmeal to give them a minty-ish musty smell.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1692 » by daSwami » Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:59 pm

closg00 wrote:
Exactly this, Ted would be thrilled, I wonder how-long Brad will be satisfied with making the play-in>


If winning truly mattered most to Beal, he wouldn't have re-signed here.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1693 » by closg00 » Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:36 pm

payitforward wrote:He's not a coward, he simply has supreme confidence in himself & cares nothing for what anyone else thinks.

In a sense, he's right too. As long as people keep coming to the phone booth & spending their $$ to watch a trash team there's no reason to change.

If failure has no consequences, as is the case with the Washington Wizards, then why would anyone expect growth? Above all, why would anyone expect significant success, like competing for a title for example. Or even competing for the EC finals.

That is never going to happen. In fact, it's far more likely that we get worse over the next few years than that we get better.


Ted has the same, dumb, "supreme self confidence" that Trump has, thinks he's smart but the opposite is true.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1694 » by doclinkin » Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:07 pm

closg00 wrote:
payitforward wrote:He's not a coward, he simply has supreme confidence in himself & cares nothing for what anyone else thinks.

In a sense, he's right too. As long as people keep coming to the phone booth & spending their $$ to watch a trash team there's no reason to change.

If failure has no consequences, as is the case with the Washington Wizards, then why would anyone expect growth? Above all, why would anyone expect significant success, like competing for a title for example. Or even competing for the EC finals.

That is never going to happen. In fact, it's far more likely that we get worse over the next few years than that we get better.


Ted has the same, dumb, "supreme self confidence" that Trump has, thinks he's smart but the opposite is true.


Not quite. Trump has bankrupted multiple times. Ted has succeeded in business sufficient to be in position to buy the Nats. And his own slice of the media market. And won multiple championships with his other teams. As a Wizards owner he's an a55hat. As a multi-team sports owner he's doing alright.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1695 » by payitforward » Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:33 pm

Look... once you've made a few billion dollars, it's kinda hard not to have "supreme self-confidence."

For that matter, I might even be wrong about the other half of my characterization: "...& cares nothing for what anyone else thinks." That's doubtless an over-statement. It's more that he finds it hard to be critical of a management team he's chosen. He chose them, so they must be good. Hence, bad results must come from some other source -- lousy luck, give it some more time, something.

But, no matter how you analyze it, it's still the same: there's a saying in business that "shxt rises to the top." If someone is doing a bad job, look at his boss. If that guy is doing a bad job, look at his boss. At some point, "the bucks stops here."
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1696 » by AFM » Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:09 pm

Has anyone asked Ted if he even watches basketball? Or is owning a bunch of teams just on his bucket list.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1697 » by badinage » Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:29 pm

And he’s won before. That has to be mentioned here. He’s won with the Caps, with the Mystics, with that arena football team no one knows or cares about.

So, you take a guy who, all the time, whatever the endeavor, thinks he knows what he’s doing. And now you give that guy incontrovertible evidence, not once, not twice, but three times that he actually does know, and, yeah.

I’d encourage everyone here to read his latest Ted Talk.

It’s distressing for a number of reasons. Not least that he talks more about e-fukkin sports than the Wizards. What you’ll see, though, is a guy who knows this team isn’t capable of much. He knows it. He talks about the Caps, and though there’s nothing in there to suggest that he thinks a title is within reach, he clearly believes it’s a strong, possibly contending team. He’s high on the e-fukkin sports dudes. He’s enthused about something else that I can’t recall now and am definitely not gonna waste time looking up. But about the Wizards, all he talks about is Brad. That’s it. Just Brad and the fact that he’ll probably pass the Big E in points scored this year. Which, for me, is not a happiness; Elvin won a title, Elvin (with Wes) carried the franchise.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1698 » by payitforward » Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:48 pm

Can't find a link to that ted talk -- do you have it?

To be sure, his interest in sports is virtually entirely in betting.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1699 » by closg00 » Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:18 pm

doclinkin wrote:
closg00 wrote:
payitforward wrote:He's not a coward, he simply has supreme confidence in himself & cares nothing for what anyone else thinks.

In a sense, he's right too. As long as people keep coming to the phone booth & spending their $$ to watch a trash team there's no reason to change.

If failure has no consequences, as is the case with the Washington Wizards, then why would anyone expect growth? Above all, why would anyone expect significant success, like competing for a title for example. Or even competing for the EC finals.

That is never going to happen. In fact, it's far more likely that we get worse over the next few years than that we get better.


Ted has the same, dumb, "supreme self confidence" that Trump has, thinks he's smart but the opposite is true.


Not quite. Trump has bankrupted multiple times. Ted has succeeded in business sufficient to be in position to buy the Nats. And his own slice of the media market. And won multiple championships with his other teams. As a Wizards owner he's an a55hat. As a multi-team sports owner he's doing alright.


Like Trump, Ted's good fortune was jump-started by a financial windfall, but fair enough. So, I will carve out a qualification for his basketball acumen which is undeniably dumb.
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Re: The Amazingly Sucky Theodore Leonsis Thread 

Post#1700 » by badinage » Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:33 pm

payitforward wrote:Can't find a link to that ted talk -- do you have it?

To be sure, his interest in sports is virtually entirely in betting.


https://tedstake.com/2022/09/as-some-seasons-end-a-new-set-of-seasons-begin/

And we could dissect and analyze this for a week. Truly.

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