Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

[Sluggerface]

That's one of the few trades without giving up a first and looks better than most. The downsides are (a) giving up Gortat means serious minutes for Nicholson if there is any injury and (b) adding two more vets means less development for Oubre. But it is definitely worth thinking about.

My line of thinking was that Brooks play's Chandler exclusively at the 4 for the rest of the season, unless an injury happens on the wing. Then they can shift Oubre/Chandler around next season based on what happens in the draft/FA.

Don't like it. Makes us worse both now and in the future.

What would we do with all those wings? It would require quite a bit of Buffalo hot sauce and brew to stomach.

Sefolosha is pretty much just a rental to make the salaries match. I wouldn't honestly see Washington retaining him. The trade pretty much centers around swapping Gortat for Chandler.

[payitforward]

It just makes so much more sense to wait a year before making any trades. The issue is Mahinmi. If he ever gets healthy, it'll give us an actual positive trade asset (either Gortat or Mahinmi) to use as a stand alone trade or to package with a pick. But until then, we can't package any salary ballast with our pick because all of our contracts have negative value.

When Mahinmi gets healthy, our trade options improve dramatically. Also, there might be one or more teams in need of a center by next year (whereas, right now, nobody really needs one).

I just don't see the motivation to make a desperation trade now. I'd rather stand pat and finish in the 6-10 range. If we make the playoffs, then it proves that a midseason trade was unnecessary. If we miss the playoffs, then we go into the offseason with a healthy Mahinmi (or Gortat) and a lotto pick in a strong draft as trade assets.

Agreed. And a lotto pick has at least the slim possibility of turning into a top-3 pick.

[payitforward]

The more I think about it, the more I think we ought to start shopping Jason Smith. He has played very well lately and is the type of role player (good shooter, good attitude, cheap contract) that some teams might want to shore up their depth. Maybe we can get a stopgap wing out of the deal. Or maybe just get a 2nd round pick and dump his salary.

4 minutes later, and you've already changed your mind!!

[pcbothwel]

Muscala's got some things going really well for him and other things going poorly. He's a terrifically efficient shooter with a very good 3, and the defensive stats they keep for low post defense somehow has him among the top few bigs in the NBA, but his rebounding has gone down to 7 per 40 minutes - which is really awful. But his stretch 4 ability definitely makes him intriguing - I'd be happy to get him at a reasonable price that doesn't include our 2017 1st rounder.

2018 1st (top 10 protected) + Nicholson for Muscala + Sefolosha

A first round pick for Sefolosha and Muscala? Why? I'd rather Oubre play any minute that Sefolosha would be playing, Jason Smith gives us everything Muscala does, and for a first round pick? I wouldn't

I would actually be okay with a trade centered around Muscala + Sefolosha/Hardaway for our 1st if Muscala was an RFA. But he is a UFA and so I'd be reluctant.

[pcbothwel]

Tim hardaway Jr.? Gots to be a better backup guard than anyone we have on the bench right?

Ernie will be too slow to grab him. The obvious move doesn't interest Ernie. Hardaway Jr will be switching uniforms in a couple days.

Ehh, In a Sellers Market or when going for a superstar, making a quick and early move makes sense. But in a Buyers Market where you would be looking for a rotational player at most, EG would be doing the right thing in waiting. There are more Sellers than Buyers, so let the Cavs make their trade for Korver and Toronto/Portland/Boston/Etc. do their thing. Hanging back and seeing who is left might be our best bet.
Remember, a month ago we all overlooked Nicholson being bad because of how much we detested the Smith signing. Now Smith just put up a month of a ORtg/DRtg of 121/108 while showing hustle, quick feet on D, and a real smooth 18-20ft jump shot that looks like it could easily stretch out to the 3 point line.

My bold take, Jason Smith actually ends up being a valuable player over the course of this contract and a fan favorite (If only a joking fashion sometimes) due to his high level activity, Crashing the offensive boards, and timely jumpers... Yeah, I said it.

Looking just at the ages/numbers, I thought Nicholson > Smith was a no brainer. But the numbers have changed, and the eye test shows me that Smith is a basketball player with good instincts.

[Meliorus]

Tim hardaway Jr.? Gots to be a better backup guard than anyone we have on the bench right?

Ernie will be too slow to grab him. The obvious move doesn't interest Ernie. Hardaway Jr will be switching uniforms in a couple days.

Ehh, In a Sellers Market or when going for a superstar, making a quick and early move makes sense. But in a Buyers Market where you would be looking for a rotational player at most, EG would be doing the right thing in waiting. There are more Sellers than Buyers, so let the Cavs make their trade for Korver and Toronto/Portland/Boston/Etc. do their thing. Hanging back and seeing who is left might be our best bet.
Remember, a month ago we all overlooked Nicholson being bad because of how much we detested the Smith signing. Now Smith just put up a month of a ORtg/DRtg of 121/108 while showing hustle, quick feet on D, and a real smooth 18-20ft jump shot that looks like it could easily stretch out to the 3 point line.

My bold take, Jason Smith actually ends up being a valuable player over the course of this contract and a fan favorite (If only a joking fashion sometimes) due to his high level activity, Crashing the offensive boards, and timely jumpers... Yeah, I said it.

Looking just at the ages/numbers, I thought Nicholson > Smith was a no brainer. But the numbers have changed, and the eye test shows me that Smith is a basketball player with good instincts.

Don't think it's a bold take anymore. Smith is looking like the best bench player, and if Manhimi comes back strong, Gortat is easily expendable. Being patient is the right move, but I have little hope for any of the 4 backup guards.

[nate33]

The more I think about it, the more I think we ought to start shopping Jason Smith. He has played very well lately and is the type of role player (good shooter, good attitude, cheap contract) that some teams might want to shore up their depth. Maybe we can get a stopgap wing out of the deal. Or maybe just get a 2nd round pick and dump his salary.

4 minutes later, and you've already changed your mind!!

I guess my greater point is that we should be thinking of a long term strategy aimed toward contending in 1-3 years. Trading our pick for veterans or salary space does not meet that end. But trading Smith for a future asset does.

[Meliorus]

The more I think about it, the more I think we ought to start shopping Jason Smith. He has played very well lately and is the type of role player (good shooter, good attitude, cheap contract) that some teams might want to shore up their depth. Maybe we can get a stopgap wing out of the deal. Or maybe just get a 2nd round pick and dump his salary.

4 minutes later, and you've already changed your mind!!

I guess my greater point is that we should be thinking of a long term strategy aimed toward contending in 1-3 years. Trading our pick for veterans or salary space does not meet that end. But trading Smith for a future asset does.

Jason Smith is playing well, but we have another guy making 26 million for 4 YEARS rotting on the bench even with Manhimi out. When he comes back, there will be even less minutes for Nicholson. This is a serious problem and Ernie needs to figure out a way to cover his mistake. I'm not convinced Nicholson can raise his value to the team or the rest of the league, playing behind Markieff and now Smith. Ernie needs to be thinking of ways to get RID of him.

[nate33]

4 minutes later, and you've already changed your mind!!

I guess my greater point is that we should be thinking of a long term strategy aimed toward contending in 1-3 years. Trading our pick for veterans or salary space does not meet that end. But trading Smith for a future asset does.

Jason Smith is playing well, but we have another guy making 26 million for 4 YEARS rotting on the bench even with Manhimi out. When he comes back, there will be even less minutes for Nicholson. This is a serious problem and Ernie needs to figure out a way to cover his mistake. I'm not convinced Nicholson can raise his value to the team or the rest of the league, playing behind Markieff and now Smith. Ernie needs to be thinking of ways to get RID of him.

Why is this such a pressing need for you? How exactly does getting rid of Nicholson help the team? The $6M in cap room it frees up won't be that useful in a free agency market where most rotation players make $10M or more.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Nicholson is good. I just fail to see why we should be sacrificing assets like future 1st round picks just to unload him.

[pcbothwel]

I guess my greater point is that we should be thinking of a long term strategy aimed toward contending in 1-3 years. Trading our pick for veterans or salary space does not meet that end. But trading Smith for a future asset does.

Jason Smith is playing well, but we have another guy making 26 million for 4 YEARS rotting on the bench even with Manhimi out. When he comes back, there will be even less minutes for Nicholson. This is a serious problem and Ernie needs to figure out a way to cover his mistake. I'm not convinced Nicholson can raise his value to the team or the rest of the league, playing behind Markieff and now Smith. Ernie needs to be thinking of ways to get RID of him.

Why is this such a pressing need for you? How exactly does getting rid of Nicholson help the team? The $6M in cap room it frees up won't be that useful in a free agency market where most rotation players make $10M or more.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Nicholson is good. I just fail to see why we should be sacrificing assets like future 1st round picks just to unload him.

Agreed, This summer he'll have 3/20M remaining on his contract (6.6M per). So that is 6% of the cap and less than the new MLE (7.5-8M starting).

[Meliorus]

Read on Twitter

Can we still sign guys to minimums?

[pcbothwel]

Read on Twitter

Can we still sign guys to minimums?

Yes, and the prorated portion of the Room exception. But we'd have to waive one of them and eat the cost. But who cares.

[nate33]

Can we still sign guys to minimums?

No roster room. Gotta cut someone to sign someone.

[payitforward]

The more I think about it, the more I think we ought to start shopping Jason Smith. He has played very well lately and is the type of role player (good shooter, good attitude, cheap contract) that some teams might want to shore up their depth. Maybe we can get a stopgap wing out of the deal. Or maybe just get a 2nd round pick and dump his salary.

4 minutes later, and you've already changed your mind!!

I guess my greater point is that we should be thinking of a long term strategy aimed toward contending in 1-3 years. Trading our pick for veterans or salary space does not meet that end. But trading Smith for a future asset does.

Agree totally. Especially as Smith's recent spate of pretty good play is atypical.

But, Ernie would not be capable of trading Smith for a R2 pick -- that would be admitting a mistake, something he never does. Moreover, he places little value on R2 picks. Which is just one of the many ways that he is behind the times as a GM.

[payitforward]

One reason to keep them might be to have one or more of their contracts to include in a trade?

[payitforward]

The Nuggets are shopping Nurkic. With these moves by Ernie to guarantee them, we could trade House & Ochefu for Nurkic. Whaddya think?

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

The Nuggets are shopping Nurkic. With these moves by Ernie to guarantee them, we could trade House & Ochefu for Nurkic. Whaddya think?

Throw in a couple of urinal cakes and you've got yourself a deal.

[Meliorus]

11 points 5 rebounds 4 assists

$618,212

[AFM]

All I got is some Zebracakes that I pissed on. We good?

[payitforward]

Nurkic is an odd case. He's tremendously talented; everyone seems to agree on that. But, so far he has not excelled in the league, and Denver has decided Nokic is going to be their C of the future.

As a scorer, Nurkic's 2 point % is well above average for an NBA big. Plus, he gets to the line at an above average rate for an NBA big. But, he has no 3 pt. shot at all, and he shoots 54% from the line; the result is that his TS% is a little below average.

Nurkic is a terrific rebounder overall & an elite offensive rebounder. His blocks are above average, his assists are too, and so are his steals. But... he turns the ball over a lot. It's his single biggest problem as a player. Especially in that he's not a super-high usage guy like Cousins who has the ball in his hands so much.

But, Nurkic is only 22 and, as I said, tremendously talented. He's also gotten better this year. I'd love to have him. I'll be eager to see what he turns out to be worth. Off the top of my head, I might give our 2018 R1 pick for Nurkic and Denver's 2017 R2 pick.

But, it'd be a big surprise if Ernie targeted him, unfortunately.