Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 4

verbal8 · Post #1701 » by **verbal8** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:12 am

hands11 wrote:Nice.

DAL going all in for Dirk by landing Rondo

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... ondo-Trade

The Mavericks would send Brandan Wright, Jae Crowder, Jameer Nelson, one future first round pick and a future second round pick to the Celtics for Rondo and Dwight Powell.

"The deal is on course to happen tonight," said one source.

A good deal for the Mavs. For the Celtics it seems to continue their acquisition of good, but not star-level players.

closg00 · Post #1702 » by **closg00** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:51 am

Good deal for the Mavs, they can't waste Dirks final years and they are already decent this year.

long suffrin' boulez fan · Post #1703 » by **long suffrin' boulez fan** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:40 am

Any way for us to get involved in the fallout from the Rondo deal?

Boston has too many players for their 15 man roster.

Anyone we could get from them for a 2nd rounder (real or fake) plus a player like Temple they could cut? ( or is his contract guaranteed?)

hands11 · Post #1704 » by **hands11** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:40 am

Man, how amazing has Jimmy Butler been ?

He really took a step up this year.

FAH1223 · Post #1705 » by **FAH1223** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:03 am

Rondo has shot terribly this year. I wonder how the spacing will be with him in Carlisle's system.

dckingsfan · Post #1706 » by **dckingsfan** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:27 am

FAH1223 wrote:Rondo has shot terribly this year. I wonder how the spacing will be with him in Carlisle's system.

That's a really good question Rondo/Ellis? hmmm....

thricethefun · Post #1707 » by **thricethefun** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:43 am

hands11 wrote:Man, how amazing has Jimmy Butler been ?

He really took a step up this year.

It's funny because Beal badly outplayed Butler in the playoffs last year but Jimmy has gotten much better since then while Beal has regressed.

AFM · Post #1708 » by **AFM** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:46 am

I wouldn't say he's really regressed, he's coming back from a broken hand....

This mavs team is going to be a beast with Rondo. He's my favorite PG outside of Wall. His passes are sick...

I remember seeing this live and screaming "NO WAY"
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNGOi241pa8[/youtube]

That is a PERFECT pass through 3 defenders.

verbal8 · Post #1709 » by **verbal8** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:38 am

long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:Any way for us to get involved in the fallout from the Rondo deal?

Boston has too many players for their 15 man roster.

Anyone we could get from them for a 2nd rounder (real or fake) plus a player like Temple they could cut? ( or is his contract guaranteed?)

They waived Vitor Faverani, who was out with a knee injury. Nelson may have had some use to the Wizards when he was younger, but I don't think he is very good any more.

verbal8 · Post #1710 » by **verbal8** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:56 am

Interesting pick protection on the Dallas pick in the Rondo trade. Top-3 which makes sense, but then also bottom-15 for 2015. Basically if Mavs make the playoffs, they keep the pick - so it looks like a 2016 pick(top 7 from then on).

Dallas is definitely play-offs or bust.

Missing the play-offs this year, probably starts the rebuild(Dirk retires, Tyson Chandler doesn't resign) - although keeping Chandler and spending on free agents could be an option - depending on how much Rondo and Chandler cost.

Post #1711 » by **nate33** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:56 pm

I think it's a bit of a gamble for Dallas. I'm not so certain that Rondo is the player he once was and if he'll ever get to that point again. He's definitely a head case - with his sub-40% free throw shooting and all.

Dallas has made a science of how to run the pick and roll. Can they really do it with Rondo when teams will just go under the screen all day?

On the other hand, Carlisle is a genius at maximizing his players' talents. Rondo certainly has talent, and Dallas has the shooting at other positions to help make up for Rondo's poor perimeter shooting.

Boston has a ridiculous amount of future assets, but they're all mid-tier assets. They really need a consolidation trade of some sort. Either that, or they just need to get lucky and find a star-caliber players in the middle of the draft. Maybe there's a Dirk Nowitzki, Joakim Noah or Paul George in there somewhere.

Nivek · Post #1712 » by **Nivek** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:10 pm

I sorta agree, nate. Rondo is a few years removed from his peak at this point, and he's had a couple significant injuries. It'll be interesting to see how Carlisle is able to incorporate him.

fishercob · Post #1713 » by **fishercob** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:44 pm

Nivek mentioned Amare in a Knicks discussion in another thread.

I have massive respect for the season he has put together so far. He's played every game except one, and is doing a nice job on offense and the boards in 27 mpg. Seems like he can't guard his own shadow at this point (he never was very interested as a defender), but he can score.

I really hope he remains healthy. I also hope the Knicks buy him out post deadline and he catches on with a contender. He'd be an nice scoring big off the bench. I actually wouldn't mind him here next year in place of Drizze or Blair.

Kev, does he rate as a complete defensive disaster in your stuff?

It's a shame what injuries did to him. He would have been remembered as one of the best offensive bigs of all time. As it is, I think he belongs in the Hall.

Dat2U · Post #1714 » by **Dat2U** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:47 pm

thricethefun wrote:
hands11 wrote:Man, how amazing has Jimmy Butler been ?

He really took a step up this year.

It's funny because Beal badly outplayed Butler in the playoffs last year but Jimmy has gotten much better since then while Beal has regressed.

Beal regressed?

He was hurt to start the year and is playing well IMO. Not at the level of his playoff performance, but better than he was over the course of the 2013-14 regular season.

His playoff performance so far is an outlier.

Nivek · Post #1715 » by **Nivek** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:51 pm

fishercob wrote:Kev, does he rate as a complete defensive disaster in your stuff?

Not a disaster, but not good either. He rates as a bit below average on defense. This, of course, has him as one of the Knicks' "top 5" defenders.

The only Knicks who rate as defensive positives are Dalembert and Prigioni.

All that said, Stoudemire rates a damn sight better defensively than Seraphin. And he's better offensively as well.

His PPA this season is 129.

fishercob · Post #1716 » by **fishercob** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:54 pm

Nivek wrote:
fishercob wrote:Kev, does he rate as a complete defensive disaster in your stuff?

Not a disaster, but not good either. He rates as a bit below average on defense. This, of course, has him as one of the Knicks' "top 5" defenders.

The only Knicks who rate as defensive positives are Dalembert and Prigioni.

All that said, Stoudemire rates a damn sight better defensively than Seraphin. And he's better offensively as well.

His PPA this season is 129.

Interesting. He bears keeping an eye on, then. HIs injury history is such that you couldn't reasonably rely on him for much. But he could be a steal at the vet's minimum and an upgrade over bench bigs.

Post #1717 » by **nate33** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:12 pm

Dat2U wrote:
thricethefun wrote:
hands11 wrote:Man, how amazing has Jimmy Butler been ?

He really took a step up this year.

It's funny because Beal badly outplayed Butler in the playoffs last year but Jimmy has gotten much better since then while Beal has regressed.

Beal regressed?

He was hurt to start the year and is playing well IMO. Not at the level of his playoff performance, but better than he was over the course of the 2013-14 regular season.

His playoff performance so far is an outlier.

Hmmm. I'm not so sure i'd go so far as to say Beal is playing better than the 2013-14 regular season. His PER is lower, his rebounding lower and his turnovers are up. He is shooting a bit better though. Ultimately, I think you're right that he's still shaking off a bit of rust due to the early injury, and that's understandable. But I can't agree that he's better than last year. Not yet. Hopefully, he'll pick it up shortly. My main problem is his anemic rebounding and the dumb turnovers.

Post #1718 » by **LyricalRico** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:20 am

Interesting - Houston picks up two wings, Brewer and Shved. That didn't strike me as their biggest need.

I believe this move will also eat into their expected cap space next summer.

bealwithit · Post #1719 » by **bealwithit** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:22 am

I think the Mavs had to make this move and I'd be all in if I was a Mavs fan. One thing concerns me about this deal though and that's giving up Brandan Wright. He had become a really important player off the bench for them, he had 8 straight games of 10+ pts in November and also led them in blocks per game (1.56) which was more than Tyson Chandler (1.41). Wright is no rim protector, but he has a nice offensive game. He was a guy I wanted the Wizards to go after cause I liked him.

Without him, their big man depth looks iffy at best, Greg Smith hasn't done anything for them, Charlie Villanueva is probably not the guy you want to be giving 18 minutes a game to and that's all they've got now. I know they are going after Jermaine O'Neal, but who knows if he is going to be able to play at the same level he played for Golden State last year or even stay healthy at the ripe age of 36.

Again, congrats to the Mavs for making their team better because Rondo is exactly what they needed, but giving up a guy like Wright seems like the kind of thing that might come back to bite them in the playoffs.

doclinkin · Post #1720 » by **doclinkin** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:31 pm

verbal8 wrote:
hands11 wrote:Nice.

DAL going all in for Dirk by landing Rondo

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... ondo-Trade

The Mavericks would send Brandan Wright, Jae Crowder, Jameer Nelson, one future first round pick and a future second round pick to the Celtics for Rondo and Dwight Powell.

"The deal is on course to happen tonight," said one source.

A good deal for the Mavs. For the Celtics it seems to continue their acquisition of good, but not star-level players.

Jae Crowder is a quintessential Brad Stevens player though. Under Stevens Boston is looking at a model like Toronto or perhaps the Spurs: no dominant mismatch player (anymore in the case of Tim Duncan) but a complete team 1-15 with all five players on the floor at any point able to defend, pass, make open shots, rebound etc. It's an interesting counter to the 2 superstar model, or the superteam model. Teams like ours have a similar depth, but rely on one superstar to make the thing work. IF you stop John Wall then we suffer. Big if, but still it's a vulnerability.