Official Trade Thread - Part XXX

[nate33]

He could get that extra year with a S&T That might be worth something to him, I the kings for an option and that would up grade our bench a lot, the nuggets would probably do that deal in a heart beat maybe because they seem to want to avoid a rebuild as much as possible.

No he can't. New rules say that S&T contracts can't be bigger or longer than a normal free agency signing.

The only way Beal can get a 5 year deal and/or 7.5% raises is if he stays in Washington. Everybody else can only offer 4 years 4.5%, whether it's a S&T or an outright signing.

[gambitx777]

He could get that extra year with a S&T That might be worth something to him, I the kings for an option and that would up grade our bench a lot, the nuggets would probably do that deal in a heart beat maybe because they seem to want to avoid a rebuild as much as possible.

No he can't. New rules say that S&T contracts can't be bigger or longer than a normal free agency signing.

The only way Beal can get a 5 year deal and/or 7.5% raises is if he stays in Washington. Everybody else can only offer 4 years 4.5%, whether it's a S&T or an outright signing.

I did not know that, that changes a lot. Helps the home team retain their young stars for sure, but nerffs the S&T for sure. The whole reason I kept hoping for a trade is beal would want 5 years do to his health issues. Well **** US.

[LyricalRico]

Gar Forman and John Paxson made clear that nobody on the Chicago Bulls' roster will be untouchable this offseason.

"We have to explore all options. With that said, Jimmy has had a fantastic year," said Paxson.

Take Bradley Beal...please! But seriously, a S&T of Beal+Porter+pick for Jimmy Butler? I think I'd do that, and hope Durant hasn't made his decision before then. And if he has, throw money at a guy like Batum.

[nate33]

Gar Forman and John Paxson made clear that nobody on the Chicago Bulls' roster will be untouchable this offseason.

"We have to explore all options. With that said, Jimmy has had a fantastic year," said Paxson.

Take Bradley Beal...please! But seriously, a S&T of Beal+Porter+pick for Jimmy Butler? I think I'd do that, and hope Durant hasn't made his decision before then. And if he has, throw money at a guy like Batum.

Too much. Porter is good and getting better. And I'm tired of trading away picks. I'd rather sign a guy like Batum and keep Porter and the pick.

[nate33]

Posted on the Trade Board:

Wall, Gortat
for
Russell, #2, Young, Williams

It's a total rebuild move. If we could convince Whiteside to come here on max contract, we'd be loaded with young players:

PG Sessions/Sato
SG Beal/Russell
SF Porter/Oubre
PF Morris/Simmons
C Whiteside

I'd try to ship off Lou Williams to another team for picks/prospects/cap room. And with Gortat and Williams gone, there's still a good $20M or so to go after a true starting PG. Or maybe just sign some veteran stop gaps on 1-year contracts to help teach the youngsters.

[Ruzious]

Posted on the Trade Board:

Wall, Gortat
for
Russell, #2, Young, Williams

It's a total rebuild move. If we could convince Whiteside to come here on max contract, we'd be loaded with young players:

PG Sessions/Sato
SG Beal/Russell
SF Porter/Oubre
PF Morris/Simmons
C Whiteside

I'd try to ship off Lou Williams to another team for picks/prospects/cap room. And with Gortat and Williams gone, there's still a good $20M or so to go after a true starting PG. Or maybe just sign some veteran stop gaps on 1-year contracts to help teach the youngsters.

I was going to suggest to pick up picks by taking bad contracts, but there might not be any teams that need cap space.

[gesa2]

My fantasy is that we trade Wall for Favors, then sign Mike Conley. With a good coach we'd be a defensive powerhouse. If 2 of Beal Porter and Oubre develop, we'd be solid offensively too.

[payitforward]

Gar Forman and John Paxson made clear that nobody on the Chicago Bulls' roster will be untouchable this offseason.

"We have to explore all options. With that said, Jimmy has had a fantastic year," said Paxson.

Take Bradley Beal...please! But seriously, a S&T of Beal+Porter+pick for Jimmy Butler? I think I'd do that, and hope Durant hasn't made his decision before then. And if he has, throw money at a guy like Batum.

I love Jimmy Butler, and I loved him in 2011 in the run-up to the draft, so I'm not late to that party. But Porter is a very very good player and will still get a lot better -- he's almost 4 years younger than Butler. It would be a mistake to trade Otto and a pick (esp. a R1 pick!) plus Beal to acquire Butler.

The way you get a player like Jimmy Butler is by being intelligent enough to draft him.

[Ruzious]

Gar Forman and John Paxson made clear that nobody on the Chicago Bulls' roster will be untouchable this offseason.

"We have to explore all options. With that said, Jimmy has had a fantastic year," said Paxson.

Take Bradley Beal...please! But seriously, a S&T of Beal+Porter+pick for Jimmy Butler? I think I'd do that, and hope Durant hasn't made his decision before then. And if he has, throw money at a guy like Batum.

I love Jimmy Butler, and I loved him in 2011 in the run-up to the draft, so I'm not late to that party. But Porter is a very very good player and will still get a lot better -- he's almost 4 years younger than Butler. It would be a mistake to trade Otto and a pick (esp. a R1 pick!) plus Beal to acquire Butler.

The way you get a player like Jimmy Butler is by being intelligent enough to draft him.

I couldn't have said it better. That's what a solid GM does. Though I NEVER would have thought Butler would be anywhere near as good offensively as he's been. He used to put up stinker after stinker against the Wiz - especially in the playoffs a couple years ago.

[tontoz]

No he can't. New rules say that S&T contracts can't be bigger or longer than a normal free agency signing.

The only way Beal can get a 5 year deal and/or 7.5% raises is if he stays in Washington. Everybody else can only offer 4 years 4.5%, whether it's a S&T or an outright signing.

Wow I didn't know that. Haven't been on Larry Coon's site in a long time.

[LyricalRico]

Beal S&T to DET for Caldwell-Pope and picks? Maybe get them to also includes Baynes?

Bump, since nobody likes my Jimmy Butler deal.

[Illuminaire]

That's a good one, Rico. Caldwell has impressed me as a defender... he's like a 3&D two guard. Which isn't ideal but at least he's cheaper and probably plays 70 games. Add in some valuable picks and that's a winner for the Wiz.

I'm not sure Detroit bites, but it never hurts to ask.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

That's a good one, Rico. Caldwell has impressed me as a defender... he's like a 3&D two guard. Which isn't ideal but at least he's cheaper and probably plays 70 games. Add in some valuable picks and that's a winner for the Wiz.

I'm not sure Detroit bites, but it never hurts to ask.

I'm pretty sure that Detroit "bites." But that has nothing to do with Beal, Caldwell or any other basketball player.

[payitforward]

Beal S&T to DET for Caldwell-Pope and picks? Maybe get them to also includes Baynes?

Bump, since nobody likes my Jimmy Butler deal.

C-P hasn't been at all good in his first 3 years. Baynes is almost 30 and expensive for a 1200 minute backup w/ no upside (but, yes, he's been solid this year). I can't see targeting those guys.

I'm still in shock that Ernie seems to be locked into position in this way; nothing is his fault, no matter how it works out. It's very hard for me to imagine him making the kinds of moves that would actually help, given he hasn't made them in the past.

Because we have so few assets to trade, we will need to take some chances on guys who might surprise us. That means adding young players and picks. Unfortunately, we have a FO that likes to add older players and is willing to *trade* picks to do so. We're in for a very tough ride, I fear.

[payitforward]

That's a good one, Rico. Caldwell has impressed me as a defender... he's like a 3&D two guard. Which isn't ideal but at least he's cheaper and probably plays 70 games. Add in some valuable picks and that's a winner for the Wiz.

I'm not sure Detroit bites, but it never hurts to ask.

31% on 3-pt attempts

[Illuminaire]

That's a good one, Rico. Caldwell has impressed me as a defender... he's like a 3&D two guard. Which isn't ideal but at least he's cheaper and probably plays 70 games. Add in some valuable picks and that's a winner for the Wiz.

I'm not sure Detroit bites, but it never hurts to ask.

31% on 3-pt attempts

Fair point. I didn't realize his percentages were down this year... when I'd looked at him last season he was in the mid-30s and seemed to be improving. Maybe that was an aberration.

I will note that his corner threes are at a decent (if still not particularly good) percentage, which is really just me backpedaling into justification. Huh, his FT percentages are all over the map from year to year too.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Grunfeld loves the idea of "certainty." He wants established players because they minimize risk of downside. Few established pros suddenly get a lot worse (until they hit their 30s). Grunfeld likes that. Unfortunately, few established pros suddenly get a lot better either. So, get average players and they're going to stay around average. And that's not a way to make the TEAM a lot better.

So, either they need to add established players who are terrific, or add younger players who are not yet established and help them become terrific. The first option is hard: every team wants established, terrific players. When they have them, they want to keep them. The latter option means accepting some risk. Even good talent evaluators miss sometimes. Of course, Grunfeld has shown himself to be a poor talent evaluator.

[nate33]

Grunfeld loves the idea of "certainty." He wants established players because they minimize risk of downside. Few established pros suddenly get a lot worse (until they hit their 30s). Grunfeld likes that. Unfortunately, few established pros suddenly get a lot better either. So, get average players and they're going to stay around average. And that's not a way to make the TEAM a lot better.

So, either they need to add established players who are terrific, or add younger players who are not yet established and help them become terrific. The first option is hard: every team wants established, terrific players. When they have them, they want to keep them. The latter option means accepting some risk. Even good talent evaluators miss sometimes. Of course, Grunfeld has shown himself to be a poor talent evaluator.

Wow. This is a really concise and accurate assessment of EG's methods. Well said!

[Earth2Ted]

Grunfeld loves the idea of "certainty." He wants established players because they minimize risk of downside. Few established pros suddenly get a lot worse (until they hit their 30s). Grunfeld likes that. Unfortunately, few established pros suddenly get a lot better either. So, get average players and they're going to stay around average. And that's not a way to make the TEAM a lot better.

So, either they need to add established players who are terrific, or add younger players who are not yet established and help them become terrific. The first option is hard: every team wants established, terrific players. When they have them, they want to keep them. The latter option means accepting some risk. Even good talent evaluators miss sometimes. Of course, Grunfeld has shown himself to be a poor talent evaluator.

Tsw, is your sense on Ernie that part of his mediocrity is from not doing his homework, or does he really bust his tail researching players and still sucks at it?

My sense watching him the last decade is, he seems lazy- certainly deciding to draft vesely a year in advance gives that impression.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Grunfeld loves the idea of "certainty." He wants established players because they minimize risk of downside. Few established pros suddenly get a lot worse (until they hit their 30s). Grunfeld likes that. Unfortunately, few established pros suddenly get a lot better either. So, get average players and they're going to stay around average. And that's not a way to make the TEAM a lot better.

So, either they need to add established players who are terrific, or add younger players who are not yet established and help them become terrific. The first option is hard: every team wants established, terrific players. When they have them, they want to keep them. The latter option means accepting some risk. Even good talent evaluators miss sometimes. Of course, Grunfeld has shown himself to be a poor talent evaluator.

Wow. This is a really concise and accurate assessment of EG's methods. Well said!

Average is just about the worst place to be in the NBA. You stay there. Persistence is hard to maintain at either extreme good or bad.

I prefer taking risks. Swing for the fences with each move by projecting growth and value with each pick. Assure that each player is competitive by researching their intangibles. Build a balanced roster by mapping out skill sets of prospects with desired factors in winning.

Effective field goal percentage, both offensive and defensive rebounds, finishing at the rim, creating offense, protecting the rim, executing pick and roll, defending pick and roll...Use a checklist or a rubric or a point system to grade your team objectively. In addition to measurable data, evaluate character better. (Washington low balled Ariza after he was a perfect mentor on and off the court. They are horrible with respect to character analysis).

One thing that Washington never seems to get right is roster construction. They fail to grasp concepts like redundant players at one spot and dearth at another. (With all the dead weight on this year's Wizards of course Wittman lost the team!). They seem to lack any semblance of quantitative analysis. They love veteran status and "certainty".

Kevin per usual is spot on about Grunfeld.