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Political Roundtable Part XVI

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dckingsfan
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1701 » by dckingsfan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:02 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
TGW wrote:
gtn130 wrote:Both sides have their issues with donors, and I won't defend the democrats in that regard, but generally speaking one side is far worse than the other, and the 'both sides' rhetoric is almost always totally wrong and misguided.

Both parties are bought and paid for by lobbyists and wall street. The Democrats are only a little bit less repulsive, but it does the classic working class, union supporting Dem-voters a disservice when we turn a blind eye to the corruption within the Democratic party.

You say bought and paid for, I say professional representative of constituents. There's nothing wrong with exercising your right to free speech. If you're going to condemn politicians for representing the people who care enough to fund their elections you're shutting yourself out of the political dialogue entirely. The internet has made it possible for a large number of small donors to drown out the voices of a small number of wealthy donors - as long as you stay engaged in the process.

Agreed, it seems like the tide has turned in that respect. But being a focused lobbyist on a specific issue vs. the "broad unorganized" individuals seems to be a weakness, no? Just like occupy wall street - which was largely ineffective.

I think what happened during the Trump campaign is that a large segment of the population became disengaged, no?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1702 » by I_Like_Dirt » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:17 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:The internet has made it possible for a large number of small donors to drown out the voices of a small number of wealthy donors - as long as you stay engaged in the process.


I would suggest that the internet and the economy has made staying engaged in the process more difficult. I mean, when you look at how politics has evolved since alongside the internet, while your premise that it's possible is certainly true, that was actually true before the internet, too.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1703 » by verbal8 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:43 pm

dckingsfan wrote:This would end up hurting the Ds in the long-run.

Wizardspride wrote:
Read on Twitter


I agree this would be a bad move. Franken would have been long since fired in the private sector.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1704 » by Wizardspride » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:54 pm

If accurate WHY would the acting AG be considered a threat to his presidency?

Read on Twitter

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1705 » by verbal8 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:56 pm

cammac wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
gtn130 wrote:You don't think this tax bill reflects poorly on the Republicans and their entire ethos? How about their efforts to repeal ACA? Their willing acceptance of the Tea Party, Fox News and all of the fear-mongering, racism and divisive identity politics?

The fact is that the Republicans, Fox News et al have been priming the pump for Trump for the last ~15 years. Thinking Trump is some unfortunate anomaly who has taken the party hostage requires ignoring everything the GOP has been doing for over a decade now.

I think that's what I said (implied)? The Rs are guilty by association - no? Tax bill, no movement forward on healthcare, support of Trump (sexist, racist).


.......

Unfortunately I don't see that type of candidate in the Democratic orbit at this time except maybe Michel Obama how unlikely that might be.


I think Michelle Obama would be absolutely the wrong direction for the Democrats to go. The best presidential candidate would probably be someone relatively boring(although a woman would be a great contrast to Trump) running in a campaign platform that speaks to voters and running alongside a strong slate of Democrats down the ticket.
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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1706 » by stilldropin20 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:57 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:I know that this is just a reaction to a post but... we aren't a third-world country. And we are most certainly a democracy.

Is it really socialism you want? Look at Cuba, Venezuela, et. al., I think many believed the propaganda of socialism and didn't like what they got. I think that many of those that voted for Trump probably feel the same way.

Or is it a fair democracy that you want - that one takes patience and effort. Matching misinformation with misinformation probably won't get you there. Maybe put your effort into promoting local (first), state and federal candidates that you truly believe in.


Depending on the metrics parts of America can definitely be compared to third world countries. Here are just a few examples:

https://www.attn.com/stories/5631/us-map-compares-states-countries-education-level

[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/alabama-black-belt-un-poverty-expert-extreme-developed-country-sewage-crisis-roy-moore-philip-alston-a8105886.html
[/url]

Look at the ongoing water crisis in Flint. I've heard stories of teachers that have worked in schools without running water. These conditions arent acceptable in the richest country in the world.

And you're a smart guy I'm sure that you can tell me the difference between socialism in Cuba/Venezuela and Finland/Denmark and then the difference between America and Cuba/Venezuela. For every example you give me of where socialism has failed I can provide 2 examples of success and more examples of capitalist countries that have implemented socialist policies.

If you can't openly discuss problems and identify solutions without making false equivalences or whataboutism then you'll just continue to slide further into inequality.


We have the income inequality of a third world country. That's a fact.

So let's take back Thee damn money!!!!! And do it in broad daylight!!!

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1707 » by stilldropin20 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:59 pm

Oh my God what's going on with this poor today you guys are finally talking the truth?????

Yes both sides are corrupt as s***!!!!!!

Until we get real campaign Finance reform both sides will always be corrupt as s***.

And right now Trump is representing the middle class and working Americans better than either side.

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1708 » by stilldropin20 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:00 pm

this is huge. and a disgrace. The Obama administration was rotten to the core from the head down. Why was he so intent on making this deal with Iran? paying them off? and allowing Hezbollah to reign terror on the globe!!??

http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/18/report-obama-ripped-apart-feds-effort-to-take-down-iranian-terrorists/
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1709 » by verbal8 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:02 pm

I saw an interesting point that the Republicans are acting with an expectation they will have large losses in 2018 and possibly 2020.

Obama did the opposite, assuming he would have some level of Congressional cooperation for 4+ years, allowing him to tweak ACA to make it more effective.

Assuming Democratic wins in 2018/2020 it will be interesting to see the strategy employed.
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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1710 » by Wizardspride » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:02 pm

stilldropin20 wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
Depending on the metrics parts of America can definitely be compared to third world countries. Here are just a few examples:

https://www.attn.com/stories/5631/us-map-compares-states-countries-education-level

[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/alabama-black-belt-un-poverty-expert-extreme-developed-country-sewage-crisis-roy-moore-philip-alston-a8105886.html
[/url]

Look at the ongoing water crisis in Flint. I've heard stories of teachers that have worked in schools without running water. These conditions arent acceptable in the richest country in the world.

And you're a smart guy I'm sure that you can tell me the difference between socialism in Cuba/Venezuela and Finland/Denmark and then the difference between America and Cuba/Venezuela. For every example you give me of where socialism has failed I can provide 2 examples of success and more examples of capitalist countries that have implemented socialist policies.

If you can't openly discuss problems and identify solutions without making false equivalences or whataboutism then you'll just continue to slide further into inequality.


We have the income inequality of a third world country. That's a fact.

So let's take back Thee damn money!!!!! And do it in broad daylight!!!

Sent from my SM-N920T using RealGM mobile app

If that's what your ultimate goal is I believe you're supporting the wrong party.

In my 41 years on the planet I've never seen the GOP even pretend to care about income inequality.

Not even a little bit.

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1711 » by verbal8 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:07 pm

stilldropin20 wrote:
And right now Trump is representing the middle class and working Americans better than either side.


So the middle class wants a pro-Russia, pro-rich, anti-woman and anti-minority agenda?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1712 » by Wizardspride » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:08 pm

verbal8 wrote:
cammac wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:I think that's what I said (implied)? The Rs are guilty by association - no? Tax bill, no movement forward on healthcare, support of Trump (sexist, racist).


.......

Unfortunately I don't see that type of candidate in the Democratic orbit at this time except maybe Michel Obama how unlikely that might be.


I think Michelle Obama would be absolutely the wrong direction for the Democrats to go. The best presidential candidate would probably be someone relatively boring(although a woman would be a great contrast to Trump) running in a campaign platform that speaks to voters and running alongside a strong slate of Democrats down the ticket.

Why can't a candidate be both exciting/charasmatic AND run a campaign that speaks to voters?

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1713 » by dckingsfan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:10 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
verbal8 wrote:
cammac wrote:
.......

Unfortunately I don't see that type of candidate in the Democratic orbit at this time except maybe Michel Obama how unlikely that might be.


I think Michelle Obama would be absolutely the wrong direction for the Democrats to go. The best presidential candidate would probably be someone relatively boring(although a woman would be a great contrast to Trump) running in a campaign platform that speaks to voters and running alongside a strong slate of Democrats down the ticket.

Why can't a candidate be both exciting/charasmatic AND run a campaign that speaks to voters?

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I love Michelle Obama - but I don't think she will run and I think it would "feel" similar to the Clinton "legacy".

I would rather see someone new (just my opinion).
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1714 » by Wizardspride » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:11 pm

Read on Twitter

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1715 » by verbal8 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:13 pm

Wizardspride wrote:In my 41 years on the planet I've never seen the GOP even pretend to care about income inequality.

Not even a little bit.


There have been exceptions here and there, like Jack Kemp, but it has been pretty consistent.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1716 » by Wizardspride » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:18 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:
verbal8 wrote:
I think Michelle Obama would be absolutely the wrong direction for the Democrats to go. The best presidential candidate would probably be someone relatively boring(although a woman would be a great contrast to Trump) running in a campaign platform that speaks to voters and running alongside a strong slate of Democrats down the ticket.

Why can't a candidate be both exciting/charasmatic AND run a campaign that speaks to voters?

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I love Michelle Obama - but I don't think she will run and I think it would "feel" similar to the Clinton "legacy".

I would rather see someone new (just my opinion).

Yeah, I don't want her to run either.

Although, I wouldn't mind her running for the senate/congress at some point.

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1717 » by gtn130 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:28 pm

verbal8 wrote:
cammac wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:I think that's what I said (implied)? The Rs are guilty by association - no? Tax bill, no movement forward on healthcare, support of Trump (sexist, racist).


.......

Unfortunately I don't see that type of candidate in the Democratic orbit at this time except maybe Michel Obama how unlikely that might be.


I think Michelle Obama would be absolutely the wrong direction for the Democrats to go. The best presidential candidate would probably be someone relatively boring(although a woman would be a great contrast to Trump) running in a campaign platform that speaks to voters and running alongside a strong slate of Democrats down the ticket.


Gillibrand 2020
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1718 » by verbal8 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:32 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:Why can't a candidate be both exciting/charasmatic AND run a campaign that speaks to voters?

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I love Michelle Obama - but I don't think she will run and I think it would "feel" similar to the Clinton "legacy".

I would rather see someone new (just my opinion).

Yeah, I don't want her to run either.

Although, I wouldn't mind her running for the senate/congress at some point.

Senator from DC? :)
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1719 » by Wizardspride » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:34 pm

Loyalty oaths (Comey), purging the ranks, talks of creating his own spy networks etc etc.

Not to get all melodramatic but I'm concerned about where this is all headed...

Read on Twitter



Random observation: Isn't it interesting how the intelligence agencies/DOJ suddenly became a bastion of liberalism?

You all know the narrative: "Obama's DOJ, The Deep State" etc etc

It's commonly known that these institutions (military as well) are probably more conservative than the general population.

It's just funny to watch Hannity and his deplorable ilk meltdown (and lie).

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVI 

Post#1720 » by stilldropin20 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:34 pm

verbal8 wrote:I saw an interesting point that the Republicans are acting with an expectation they will have large losses in 2018 and possibly 2020.

Obama did the opposite, assuming he would have some level of Congressional cooperation for 4+ years, allowing him to tweak ACA to make it more effective.

Assuming Democratic wins in 2018/2020 it will be interesting to see the strategy employed.


strategy is simple.
1.Tax reform now.took em 4 weeks.
2. entitlement reform next to possibly include ss reform.
3. possibly education reform (devos aint there for nothing)
4. infrastructure spending bill (that dems want) where trump will insist on his wall.

thats all he needs. if dems take over in 2018 in senate, i dont think they get the house-trump will remain in office (wont get impeached) and he will continue to expose the deep state silent coup attempt from Nov 2016-through 2018 and govern via executive order.

The economy humming, and I believe that he plans to introduce a balanced budget(to be balanced by the end of his term like Bill clinton did) during the 2020 election. he will have multiple senators and reps run on that platform with him and take back the senate if they lose it in 2018.

It is during the years 2019-2023 that the american people MUST come together and appeal to trump for real campaign finance reform. we must appeal to trump to keep the hopes of the actual working class alive, not kill their spirit like Obama did. and continue to open those pathways for the poor to become middle class. Real pathways!!!!!! not handouts that keep their spirits barely satiated and almost dead!!!!!

Just remember this. Donald Trump is dying to look Barrack Obama in the face and say, "I helped the poor. you didn't. I helped the middle class, you didnt. And Im still a billionaire!! you're not." help this man say these words to that man is all I got to say on this. and I will keep saying it here daily until it sinks in. It does NOT matter the motivation. The end game is all that matters. If you need to, just say Obama played a jedi mind trick on trump to motivate trump to do these things. whatever you need to tell yourself. Just help this man help you!!! If you show him loyalty he will become loyal. Thats how his kind of mind works. He gave Omarosa a job at the white house for christ sakes!!!!! And would have kept her if she played her cards more patiently. Donald trump is a billionaire who fancies himself a hero to the working class. Its not that uncommon for the wealthy to feel this way. He wants to help. let him help.

I'd add that there is nothing he has done since he became elected that has hurt the middle class or the poor. In fact he has helped them greatly with a strong economy, strong growth, and strong jobs numbers, historically low unemployment numbers, and the credit markets are flush with cash.

ah, but lets keep taking about russia gate! obstruction of justice gate!! puzzy gate!!!!! All in lieu of the real needle moving issues that matter.
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