2024 Draft Thread - Part II

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Interesting analysis from a guy who watched every one of Buzelis 3-point attempts:

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If Sarr goes #1, I want Matas Buzelis. Either in a trade down, or I'd just take him at 2. Out of everyone in this draft, IMO he has the potential to be a star. He's got the size and athleticism and flashes of elite skill. That's the part either you have it or you don't. The other stuff he can work on and develop. And what I've seen, he appears to be someone who will come in and work and do what the coaches tell him to do, and won't back down until he gets it. He just has a charisma and confidence, the more stuff I watch on him the more I like.

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He's weak, can't dribble in traffic, can't get past anyone, struggles making shots and doesn't see the floor well but boy he can jump, block the ocassional shot and looks great on the break.

Not saying he's like anyone we've drafted before (cough, Jan Vesely) but even if the floor is not as low as Jan, what gives Matas the potential for a star outcome when he's more of play finisher than a play maker?

Well, Dr. J was “more of play finisher than a play maker”. But I do think his shot is going to come, and he’s going to get stronger. He’s the same age as Cody Williams. He’s definitely a project, he’s still developing physically and in terms of his game. I just like the flashes, he shows superb timing and body control. I mean there are flaws with all these guys, and he has flaws for sure. Whoever you take it’s a flyer, but he has as much potential as anyone in this draft IMO, and maybe Salaun.

[nate33]

I would take Sheppard at #1! And not think twice about it. At the top of his range I think he's a better at defence Steph Curry. So you look at that and go damn. That's something. I like Sar, but I don't see him as more than another ayton which is fine, but he's not that good of a rebounder, he's not a shooter, he's skinny, I don't see it I think his hype is based off of that just hype from what's his bame in SA. I don't look at risacher, buzelis, castle, and topic and see those guys as the guys. I see up side who can't shoot and some of them aren't lock down defenders or good at defence, skinny tall passers that just like giddy won't be about to be on the floor in the play offs.

My top three Sheppard, clinggan and dillingham withb Sar close behind.

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Why are we casually invoking Steph to justify taking Sheppard? There’s is not one thing Sheppard does that’s better than Steph and that includes defense.

Yep the Steph comparisons do Sheppard no favors. He's never going to be that type of shot creator. He's not going to be a heavy ISO guy nor have we seen much volume being fed off screens ... he's going to be best playing off other scoring options. He may as efficient in shooting 3s as Steph but he won't approach Steph's volume. He'll struggle if he's the one defenses have to key on ... but I can see an elite complimentary role player for the next decade plus in the right situation.

Yeah, his game isn't much like Curry's at all. He's not really a movement shooter who runs off screens, nor does he have the isolation ability to get off shots in one-on-one space.

I still say Mark Price is the right comp. Like Price, Sheppard is a shooter first and a PG second, but his shooting ability off the bounce should generate a real advantage in the pick and roll, enough to make him a potent pick-and-roll weapon. I remember Price being elite at splitting the double-team because both defenders were so freaked out about his pullup shot that all it took was a quick hesitation to get them out of position. Sheppard already has good passing instincts and a fast processor to make the right play once he gets into the lane. He just needs to tighten up his handle a bit.

[nate33]

I'm convinced Zach Edey is a slightly better prospect than Donovan Clingan. While I generally err towards a stout defender at the C position, I view:

Clingan as massive but slow in space who could get played off the floor in high leverage situations as teams target in the P&R. I certainly believe he has a definite utility but in the Jakob Poeltl & Ivica Zubac space where he plays approx 25 minutes night as a low usage defender, shot blocker, screener & rebounder.

Edey is an complete outlier in terms of his offensive skill around the basket, size and stanima. He's going to present a matchup nightmare as a roller or sealing off smaller guys at the rim for easy looks. His mobility in short areas is impressive and he looks like he has the basic tools to be solid defensively (albeit he has the same concerns as Clingan defensively in high leverage situations ).

Both are lottery picks, firmly in the mid-to-late lottery range.

It's notable that Edey was superior to Clingan in the athletic testing. In theory he should be roughly as effective defensively. If he is, then he is obviously a better prospect given his indisputably superior offensive skillset and superior durability.

The only thing that gives me pause are those videos that tontoz keeps posting showing how lethargic and slow-to-react he is in defensive rotations. Some of those plays are really, really bad. Is it fatigue from his offensive workload? Is it an effort to avoid foul trouble? Or does he really have a terrible defensive feel?

[tontoz]

I like the radio silence from out FO right now. No reason to give out any info.

[DCZards]

I don’t have strong feelings about Edey one way or the other. I expect him to be drafted in the 15-20 range and have a good NBA career.

But, damn, those clips tontoz posted of Edey on defense are ugly. I saw very little mobility and even less effort. I know I can at least depend on Clingan to be a rim protector.

[nate33]

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He's weak, can't dribble in traffic, can't get past anyone, struggles making shots and doesn't see the floor well but boy he can jump, block the ocassional shot and looks great on the break.

Not saying he's like anyone we've drafted before (cough, Jan Vesely) but even if the floor is not as low as Jan, what gives Matas the potential for a star outcome when he's more of play finisher than a play maker?

Not many 6-10 guys can get past people. Yes, he is weak but he'll get stronger.

I don't really see a star outcome, but that's a problem for most in this class. I do see a guy who can be a 3rd or 4th option on offense while being an average man defender and an above-average help defender. I certainly would want more at #2, but if we traded down to the 5-8 range, I think he enters the conversation. I like him over Holland because I'm reasonably confident his shot will come around. Holland has a higher upside if he develops a shot, but I am much less convinced that he will. Neither of these guys are starters if the 3-ball doesn't fall.

[tontoz]

On a different board I saw Lakers fans complaining about Rui making poor defensive rotations. We know all about that.

To play good team defense you have to read and react quickly. It isn't just about coaching it is also about the player.

Rudy Gobert tested slower than Clingan in the sprint and lane agility tests, by a pretty big margin, in spite of being 40 pounds lighter. However Rudy has still been an elite defender due to length, desire to defend and reacting quickly.

[dckingsfan]

I like the radio silence from out FO right now. No reason to give out any info.

This. I really have no idea what they are thinking other than add lots of young players.

On a rotation side (I think), Keefe seems to want to run Poole at PG and Deni as SF. If Kuz is back we will see him at PF. I am thinking Bagley will get the start at C and Kispert the start at SG. Coulibaly is going to be in the mix and Keefe had no problem giving him minutes to develop. Guessing that will happen with the rookies on the roster next year as well.

All of this is dependent on trades and who we draft. Although starting the season with Kuz is a bit disappointing, I like that the FO wants to get value from the trade.

I think Holmes, Bagley, Kispert (expiring) and Kuz will all be very available this offseason or at the trade deadline. But the FO is very mum on that as well (good for them).

So, not only are they silent on the draft but who and when they will move their expiring contracts. And I think (from below) that we are in a pretty good place to add contracts for assets (if the FO desires) and that is with the rookie signings.

Code: Select all

Jordan Poole       24   $29,651,786
Kyle Kuzma         28   $23,522,727
Deni Avdija        23   $15,625,000
Richaun Holmes     30   $12,876,780
Marvin Bagley      25   $12,500,000
Bilal Coulibaly    19   $6,945,240
Corey Kispert      25   $5,705,887
Johnny Davis       22   $5,291,160
Patrick Baldwin    21   $2,448,840
Tristan Vukcevic   21   $2,424,892
Jared Butler       23   $2,196,970
Total                 $119,189,282

[Dat2U]

I'm convinced Zach Edey is a slightly better prospect than Donovan Clingan. While I generally err towards a stout defender at the C position, I view:

Clingan as massive but slow in space who could get played off the floor in high leverage situations as teams target in the P&R. I certainly believe he has a definite utility but in the Jakob Poeltl & Ivica Zubac space where he plays approx 25 minutes night as a low usage defender, shot blocker, screener & rebounder.

Edey is an complete outlier in terms of his offensive skill around the basket, size and stanima. He's going to present a matchup nightmare as a roller or sealing off smaller guys at the rim for easy looks. His mobility in short areas is impressive and he looks like he has the basic tools to be solid defensively (albeit he has the same concerns as Clingan defensively in high leverage situations ).

Both are lottery picks, firmly in the mid-to-late lottery range.

It's notable that Edey was superior to Clingan in the athletic testing. In theory he should be roughly as effective defensively. If he is, then he is obviously a better prospect given his indisputably superior offensive skillset and superior durability.

The only thing that gives me pause are those videos that tontoz keeps posting showing how lethargic and slow-to-react he is in defensive rotations. Some of those plays are really, really bad. Is it fatigue from his offensive workload? Is it an effort to avoid foul trouble? Or does he really have a terrible defensive feel?

I think he has 'stay out of foul trouble' built into his psyche and certainly fatigue plays a factor as well playing the amount of minutes as he does at his size. A smaller role in lesser minutes should allow him to give a full effort defensively.

[tontoz]

Edey had plenty of energy to pad his stats in garbage time at the end of the title game.

[Kanyewest]

Edey had plenty of energy to pad his stats in garbage time at the end of the title game.

16 points in the first half (14 by his other teammates in the first half), 21 points in the 2nd half.

[tontoz]

Edey had plenty of energy to pad his stats in garbage time at the end of the title game.

16 points in the first half (14 by his other teammates in the first half), 21 points in the 2nd half.

Edey scored 15 in the last 8 minutes after the game was already decided.

[Kanyewest]

Edey had plenty of energy to pad his stats in garbage time at the end of the title game.

16 points in the first half (14 by his other teammates in the first half), 21 points in the 2nd half.

Edey scored 15 in the last 8 minutes after the game was already decided.

I'll split the difference. With 8 minutes to go, the game was still somewhat in doubt with Uconn up by 13 with 7 minutes to go. With 5 minutes to go, when Edey scored his final 10 points, the game seemed over.

Then again I'm used to the Wizards blowing a double digit lead and maybe UConn had the game already in hand even earlier than that.

Anyways Edey being effective for 20 minutes (putting up 16) is still really good.

The defense though is the bigger question.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Allen is way better than Kuzma. The #20 pick is better than the #25.

It takes a forward away from a team loaded with forwards. It provides a starting center that rebounds and is a borderline all-star. All the memories of being stuck in the 40-win range need to be purged.

Just draft well from here.





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[tontoz]

I don't buy the fatigue excuse for his defense, especially considering how hard he was playing to stat pad at the end.

The clips I posted were from the first half.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

You seem to have the mistaken impression that the Wizards are trying to win next year.

Next year is another tank year because next year's draft class has some actual star-caliber prospects. The last thing the Wizards need to do is trade for a center in his prime. The Wizards need to tank and accumulate a lot more young talent before making "win-now" trades and free agency acquisitions. They won 15 games last season.

yeah I know the allure of tanking for a high pick in a loaded draft might be too strong to try and compete. But small market teams often set their sights too high and swing for the fences trying to hit home runs instead of taking the available doubles and triples and that can prevent them from developing talent and together as a team.

If you fail to draft a guy that fits your system and helps others get better you're wasting current resources. What if Coulibaly takes a major year 2 leap and becomes one of the best young two-way wings in the league next season? And Avdija improves even more and is now a bonafide core long-term piece? And Castle is exactly what you need as a starting guard and helps unlock Poole? Allen being a defensive anchor would help everyone. Sure, they may only ever be #2 or #3 at best players but if have a collection of them you suddenly have the makings of a fun to watch and competitive squad. Hard-capped at 45-50 wins? Sure, but way better than what you've experienced for most of the past five decades. Allen is still just 25 y/o

And there's no guarantee you even win the draft lottery to get one of those supposed star caliber prospects. Just look at the Pistons. I just think the Eastern Conference is weak and you could really improve dramatically with the right picks and a timely trade. It's exciting times at least! A year ago everyone was saying you guys had the worst situation in the NBA and now there's at least optimism.

Dude, give it up. It’s not happening.

I think nothing of the cap implications when I make suggestions because I don't know what they are.

Allen was a real good prospect who the Wizards could have drafted when they acquired Andrew Nicholson and Jason Smith on the same day off Orlando's bench. Allen played very well for Texas.



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[DCZards]

Allen is way better than Kuzma. The #20 pick is better than the #25.

It takes a forward away from a team loaded with forwards. It provides a starting center that rebounds and is a borderline all-star. All the memories of being stuck in the 40-win range need to be purged.

Just draft well from here.

I’m with you CCJ. I don’t know why posters are so quick to reject the proposed trade involving Kuz and Allen.

I understand the need for young talent. But I’m not one of those who thinks draft picks and accumulating young talent are some sort of silver bullet for improvement and becoming competitive, especially when many draft picks turn out to be role players at best. And I don’t believe that rebuilding means you only want to add 19-22 year olds to your roster. The teams that compete for titles usually have at least 2-3 players in their late 20s and early 30s.

Allen is a 26 yr old borderline all-star who helps in areas of need—rebounding and rim protection. And you’re moving up 6 slots in the draft. That’s not a bad deal…even for a rebuilding team.

The proposed trade for Allen would be a good one, imo, if the Zards don’t draft Sarr.

[payitforward]

Allen is way better than Kuzma. The #20 pick is better than the #25.

It takes a forward away from a team loaded with forwards. It provides a starting center that rebounds and is a borderline all-star. All the memories of being stuck in the 40-win range need to be purged.

Just draft well from here.

I’m with you CCJ. I don’t know why posters are so quick to reject the proposed trade involving Kuz and Allen.

I understand the need for young talent. But I’m not one of those who thinks draft picks and accumulating young talent are some sort of silver bullet for improvement and becoming competitive, especially when many draft picks turn out to be role players at best. And I don’t believe that rebuilding means you only want to add 19-22 year olds to your roster. The teams that compete for titles usually have at least 2-3 players in their late 20s and early 30s.

Allen is a 26 yr old borderline all-star who helps in areas of need—rebounding and rim protection. And you’re moving up 6 slots in the draft. That’s not a bad deal…even for a rebuilding team.

The proposed trade for Allen would be a good one, imo, if the Zards don’t draft Sarr.

Kuzma & 26 for Allen & 20 would be a steal!

But, the thing is Detroit just hired a new President, Trajan Langdon, & he is a very intelligent guy.
He isn't going to do a deal of this description.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Allen is way better than Kuzma. The #20 pick is better than the #25.

It takes a forward away from a team loaded with forwards. It provides a starting center that rebounds and is a borderline all-star. All the memories of being stuck in the 40-win range need to be purged.

Just draft well from here.

I’m with you CCJ. I don’t know why posters are so quick to reject the proposed trade involving Kuz and Allen.

I understand the need for young talent. But I’m not one of those who thinks draft picks and accumulating young talent are some sort of silver bullet for improvement and becoming competitive, especially when many draft picks turn out to be role players at best. And I don’t believe that rebuilding means you only want to add 19-22 year olds to your roster. The teams that compete for titles usually have at least 2-3 players in their late 20s and early 30s.

Allen is a 26 yr old borderline all-star who helps in areas of need—rebounding and rim protection. And you’re moving up 6 slots in the draft. That’s not a bad deal…even for a rebuilding team.

The proposed trade for Allen would be a good one, imo, if the Zards don’t draft Sarr.

Thanks, DCZ.

The Wizards had 19-22 year old Webber, Howard, and Wallace. They failed miserably to reap the benefits of the two best players of the three.

Nurturing players in a losing culture is a great way to make them yearn to become the next Daniel Gafford. They will pray to be traded.

Instead of tanking, don't be close-minded to making sensible, incremental improvement.

[DCZards]

Kuzma & 26 for Allen & 20 would be a steal!

But, the thing is Detroit just hired a new President, Trajan Langdon, & he is a very intelligent guy.
He isn't going to do a deal of this description.

Allen plays for the Cavs not Detroit.