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Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII

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hands11
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1721 » by hands11 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:40 pm

nate33 wrote:
jivelikenice wrote:
hands11 wrote:
LOL

Those people you are tweeting with are not GMs.

Its not what they want. It what we think is possible and what we would guess two or more GMs would do.

It fine if people want to voice what they would do. But at the end of the day, I'm more interested in reading people who are objective about what is most likely to happen.


I get that, but it just amazes me how Wiz fans have been conditioned accept the status quo. Since Wall was drafted we were told the first few years we would be bad so patience was required. That was followed by get to the playoffs so last regular season when the team was up and down they still met their goal. Now it's about Durant so it's just accepting the status quo for two years. That will be 6 years of Wall's career before the franchise and fans have raised the bar.

You can complain all you want, but doing so doesn't change reality. You can't just wish for the team to be better. You have to actually put a plan in place. We have a plan that actually has the potential to put us into real contention for a good long window of time starting in 2016. The alternative is to be impatient and recklessly spend our few assets in an attempt to get marginally better. We could exchange future cap space and picks for another half-decent player and add perhaps 3 or 4 wins to our total, but that's not enough to win a championship and it significantly reduces any opportunity to add a true impact player.


Exactly.

Impatience and lack of a longer term plan under Abe is why they sucked for 25 years.

Now they are actually trying to do something different and people are complaining ?

As for calling them wasted years for Wall. For one, they aren't wasted. He has been improving. Last years playoff was huge for him. You should listen to the AS interview where he credits last years playoff for this years dedication to defense.

And this year, he is the best defensive PG by a wide margin per DRPM
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_ ... position/1

Oh and its not just DRPM. Its RPM.. He is now 7th
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Dude is becoming a WallStar.

Not sure how quickly people would have expected a ECF when we had pretty much the worst franchise in the league and even after blowing it up we still had the worst contract in the league to dump when we drafted Wall to be the cornerstone of a rebuild.

This was not TD landing on a very good SAS team that was also a great franchise. Nor Magic doing the same.

4 years into Walls career, he got out to the first round of the playoffs. That's as far as MJ had made it in his 4th year.

MJ had one year of S. Albeck. One year of K. Loughery and three years of Collins. In Collins third year he got them to Lost E. Conf. Finals.

Then they got Phil Jackson and went on to win 3 straight finals in MJs year 6, 7, 8

And that was MJ. Maybe the best ever to play the game and Phil, one of the best ever to coach it. And MJ wasn't a PG.

I say all that to add some perspective. Wall making it to the 2nd round in just his 4th year is getting him and the team back on track. It was VERY important to get him there last year which is why they focused on that so much. MJ had been there 3 times by then gaining experience but never got out of the first round. From the day they drafted Wall they said he was the corner stone and as of today, he is the franchise. Just like MJ or TD where for their teams. If KD comes, it going to be because the franchise got their acts together and mainly because WALL IS HERE. Investing in a team he could win with was the right move. So was extending him to max early.


But Wall is not MJ and he is not a wing. Which is why they are so heavy targeting KD. A PG can only do so much. You need an elite wing player in todays game. Or you have to have a well oiled machine vet heavy 3 HOF players lead by POPs one of the best every coaches. i.e. SAS

Or a best in the game future HOF PG/SG/SF/PF Lebron James on your team with HOF SG Wade.

As of this year, ATL is going to try to show us you can still do it by just balancing out a solid team across the board like DET had done many years ago. Lets call them SAS light. They don't have a TD but they have 4 All Stars. None of which are likely to make the HOF except maybe Kyle K for being an amazing 3 pt shooter. We will see how that works in the playoffs.

So the all in for KD is a legit plan. Wall is on track and if they don't land KD, he will keep them in the running to land another really good player. They might never win a title, but they will be good.

The next major step they can make as a franchise is...

Attract a HOF or potential HOF coach. And for that, their chances are the best they have been in 25 years so not much to complain about there either.

People can complain if they want and be impatient, but this franchise is headed in the right direction and Walls time here has not been wasted. In just 4.6 years, they have come a long long way from what they were. They have a plan to get better. Now we have to wait and see if it works out. Nothing is carved in stone. Winning a title is really really hard. And it takes a good bit of luck. That said, at least the franchise has repaired its reputation to a large extent. And they do have WallStar to attract players. If you doubt that, you forgot Paul picked Washington. I expect that is just the beginning. More will come.

Players will want to come play with WallStar. Every GM needs some luck. And you also can make your own luck. Well both those things happened. We cleaned house. Got a lottery pick. Got lucky and landed #1. Got lucky Wall was in that draft. And EG picked him. Then we got lucky that he didn't develop into something other then what he could have developing into. There where some rough years in the beginning. Becoming a mature franchise star is not an easy path. Many fail along the way letting ego, money, fame take them off course. Many don't become complete players and gain the maturity to lead a franchise or the ability to play well with other starts. And as we saw with Wall, there were questions along the way but the Wizards and John got him there. Give the franchise their credit for ensuring that happened. Wall could have ended up like Gil and never matured properly to match his talent.

Things are different now. I trust Wall with the franchise. And Wall is a two way player dedicated to not just offense but defense. This rebuild has legit legs in very large part because Wall developed properly in all aspects of becoming a franchise player.

Now we move forward.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1722 » by hands11 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:05 pm

gambitx777 wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:
Of course, but I dont think it would get it done. Too much protection IMO.

How about a bigger deal with no picks: Nene+Blair+Webster for Thomas+Wright+Green+Plumlee

The Suns get their true big man, and their doctors can try their hand at keeping him healthy. I doubt the Wiz would do it, but it fills out our team nicely. Nene is key to beating Chicago, but we need to retool to beat everyone else in the East so I'm willing to take the chance.

Gortat/Wright
Hump/Plumlee
Pierce/Porter/Butler
Beal/Thomas/Green
Wall/Thomas

I mean you could lower it to 1-20 for the 4 years but that' not much protection but it would be enough.
Protected firsts are going for decent returns now a days.


I don't think dragging it out is what would be best for the franchise. Not sure how much the new cap after 2016 changes that. A pick next year will be cheaper then a pick after 2016. I would rather they get losing the pick out of the way but if they do, they should value this years higher and get more in return.

If you want IT, go get him and take your medicine. Uncertainty of a lingering first for 4 years isn't something I think helps them.

They should have enough to get IT. I'm just waiting to hear what the market sets for him. We have things to offer PHX they would want. First, cap space. We have Millers exp. It start there. 2nd, they want beef, size. We have some of that as well. We have plenty of bigs to offer them. What we don't know is what level pick they would want and how GMs are valuing those picks given the new CBA.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1723 » by hands11 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:08 pm

gambitx777 wrote:
rl25g wrote:Gortat for Ilyasova straight up?

Would give Milwaukee a legit center for their playoff run. Not sure if they would want to invest in another center with Sanders on the books but Gortat would help them.

If Witt is not playing Gortat in the 4th anyways, I really want to see Wall with space on the court. Nene has played Center often this year so he shouldn't complain.

We could follow up Nate's Miller+Blair+1st for IT

Wall/IT/Temple
Beal/IT/Webster
Pierce/Butler/Porter
Ilyasova/Humphries/Gooden
Nene/Seraphin/Gooden

Ilyasova is not a good player, and he's made of glass. plus there are some questions about the legitimacy of his age. Naw I'll pass!


And people give me a hard time for mentioning Prigioni and CJ Watson - LOL

I would rather have either over Ilyasova. What this boards love affair is with this guy is something I will never understand.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1724 » by nate33 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:24 pm

jivelikenice wrote:
nate33 wrote:You can complain all you want, but doing so doesn't change reality. You can't just wish for the team to be better. You have to actually put a plan in place. We have a plan that actually has the potential to put us into real contention for a good long window of time starting in 2016. The alternative is to be impatient and recklessly spend our few assets in an attempt to get marginally better. We could exchange future cap space and picks for another half-decent player and add perhaps 3 or 4 wins to our total, but that's not enough to win a championship and it significantly reduces any opportunity to add a true impact player.


I don't think Isaiah's $6.6 Million '16 salary seriously reduces the odds of landing Durant. I think you risk losing Durant by entering '16 FA with the oldest roster in the NBA that is stuck in 4th/5th seed purgatory. The Durant talk really took off because of the teams growing relavance. That can quickly disappear. And 3-4 wins when we're 1 game out of #3 and 3.5 games out of #2 is pretty significant. It could make getting to the conference semi-finals or maybe even ECF by next year more plausible.

:banghead:
The team Durant joins in 2016 will not be old. It'll be Wall, Beal, Porter, Gortat, 2015 pick and probably Humphries.

I'd be happy if Isaiah Thomas was also in that group. If we could trade our 2016 pick plus Blair and Andre Miller for him, I'm all in. I balk when you start talking about trading Porter for him.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1725 » by nate33 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:28 pm

gambitx777 wrote:
rl25g wrote:Gortat for Ilyasova straight up?

Would give Milwaukee a legit center for their playoff run. Not sure if they would want to invest in another center with Sanders on the books but Gortat would help them.

If Witt is not playing Gortat in the 4th anyways, I really want to see Wall with space on the court. Nene has played Center often this year so he shouldn't complain.

We could follow up Nate's Miller+Blair+1st for IT

Wall/IT/Temple
Beal/IT/Webster
Pierce/Butler/Porter
Ilyasova/Humphries/Gooden
Nene/Seraphin/Gooden

Ilyasova is not a good player, and he's made of glass. plus there are some questions about the legitimacy of his age. Naw I'll pass!

I agree with all this. But more importantly, this trade will leave us without a center on the roster in 2016.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1726 » by JWizmentality » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:33 pm

hands11 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:
rl25g wrote:Gortat for Ilyasova straight up?

Would give Milwaukee a legit center for their playoff run. Not sure if they would want to invest in another center with Sanders on the books but Gortat would help them.

If Witt is not playing Gortat in the 4th anyways, I really want to see Wall with space on the court. Nene has played Center often this year so he shouldn't complain.

We could follow up Nate's Miller+Blair+1st for IT

Wall/IT/Temple
Beal/IT/Webster
Pierce/Butler/Porter
Ilyasova/Humphries/Gooden
Nene/Seraphin/Gooden

Ilyasova is not a good player, and he's made of glass. plus there are some questions about the legitimacy of his age. Naw I'll pass!


And people give me a hard time for mentioning Prigioni and CJ Watson - LOL

I would rather have either over Ilyasova. What this boards love affair is with this guy is something I will never understand.


The Illyasova fanboy following on this board is becoming a thing of legend. Not quite wizardry-maynor level but it's getting there.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1727 » by KRS-ONE » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:48 pm

Raptors made Ross and Valanciunas available
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1728 » by Dark Faze » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:58 pm

I respect masai so much...that team is reaching places it's not been to in quite some time and yet he's not afraid to call a spade a spade in regards to how he evaluates his own guys....he constantly looks to get better
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1729 » by LyricalRico » Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:23 pm

Saw on HoopsHype that Sacto is offering Thompson+Stauskas to see what they can get in return. Webster+Blair+2nds?
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1730 » by nate33 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:00 pm

KRS-ONE wrote:Raptors made Ross and Valanciunas available

I saw that Ross is available, but I didn't see anything on Valanciunas.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1731 » by AFM » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:03 pm

nate33 wrote:
KRS-ONE wrote:Raptors made Ross and Valanciunas available

I saw that Ross is available, but I didn't see anything on Valanciunas.

Links/discussion is over on the Raptors board. Trying to package both for a "star". Dreamers on their board think Ross+Val for Cousins+Stauskas is a possibility :lol:
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1732 » by nate33 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:04 pm

If Larry Sanders gets bought out, it could conceivably make a Gortat trade a possibility. This was floated by a Suns fan on the trade board a while ago: Thomas + Marcus Morris for Gortat. Imagine doing that, and then following up by signing a bought out Sanders to a Humphries style contract (with team option for 2016-17 season).

In the Summer of 2016, we'd have the following lineup, plus max money for Durant:
PG Wall/Thomas
SG Beal/Thomas
SF Porter
PF Morris/Humphries*
C Sanders/2015 pick

*we could keep Humphries only if the cap jumps to $85M or higher, which is looking like a strong possibility
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1733 » by FAH1223 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:13 pm

nate33 wrote:If Larry Sanders gets bought out, it could conceivably make a Gortat trade a possibility. This was floated by a Suns fan on the trade board a while ago: Thomas + Marcus Morris for Gortat. Imagine doing that, and then following up by signing a bought out Sanders to a Humphries style contract (with team option for 2016-17 season).

In the Summer of 2016, we'd have the following lineup, plus max money for Durant:
PG Wall/Thomas
SG Beal/Thomas
SF Porter
PF Morris/Humphries*
C Sanders/2015 pick

*we could keep Humphries only if the cap jumps to $85M or higher, which is looking like a strong possibility


Question is... does Sanders want to play basketball anymore? Does he have a drug issue? Is he bi-polar? I read he wanted to fight Jason Kidd.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1734 » by Ruzious » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:59 pm

Sanders is no more an option for the Wiz than anyone on this board is, imo.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1735 » by hands11 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:03 pm

nate33 wrote:If Larry Sanders gets bought out, it could conceivably make a Gortat trade a possibility. This was floated by a Suns fan on the trade board a while ago: Thomas + Marcus Morris for Gortat. Imagine doing that, and then following up by signing a bought out Sanders to a Humphries style contract (with team option for 2016-17 season).

In the Summer of 2016, we'd have the following lineup, plus max money for Durant:
PG Wall/Thomas
SG Beal/Thomas
SF Porter
PF Morris/Humphries*
C Sanders/2015 pick

*we could keep Humphries only if the cap jumps to $85M or higher, which is looking like a strong possibility


I know the idea of Sander is interesting but ask yourself this. Would you want to go into the playoffs with him as a center piece to your team. Can you trust he will be there or suspended. And can you envision winning a title or ECFs with him on the court.

I wouldn't feel comfortable answering those questions with a yes. So while there is some appeal, I would have to pass on that unless all the cards were in my favor regarding him. That means short small contract. And even then, I wouldn't do it without a solid back up plan. I wouldn't put my eggs in that basket.

The tough thing about moving forward isn't going to be just about adding younger legs and talent. Its going to be about how to do that while keep its professionalism. Gortat. Nene and even Gooden, Professor and Rasual. They all add that.

You can let Professor go for IT and keep that. Wall is the main cog at PG anyway and IT is a legit competitor. I can see in my minds eye him on the floor in a deep playoff game and him delivering. Now if you were talking Markeif, I would be all in. That kid is a legit baller. Just to bad we didn't draft him.
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Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1736 » by Induveca » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:04 pm

We should sign Royce White as well.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1737 » by nate33 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:31 pm

hands11 wrote:I know the idea of Sander is interesting but ask yourself this. Would you want to go into the playoffs with him as a center piece to your team. Can you trust he will be there or suspended. And can you envision winning a title or ECFs with him on the court.

Well, in my scenario, Sanders isn't the "centerpiece". Basically, I'm trading a 30-year-old Gortat with a $12M per year contract for Sanders + Thomas + Morris, all of whom are under 26 and signed cheaply. We'd have a year-and-a-half to get Sanders buy into our long term philosophy. Pierce and Nene would remain as veteran mentors until 2016.

The centerpiece is still Durant (and Wall).
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1738 » by 80sballboy » Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:28 am

nate33 wrote:
hands11 wrote:I know the idea of Sander is interesting but ask yourself this. Would you want to go into the playoffs with him as a center piece to your team. Can you trust he will be there or suspended. And can you envision winning a title or ECFs with him on the court.

Well, in my scenario, Sanders isn't the "centerpiece". Basically, I'm trading a 30-year-old Gortat with a $12M per year contract for Sanders + Thomas + Morris, all of whom are under 26 and signed cheaply. We'd have a year-and-a-half to get Sanders buy into our long term philosophy. Pierce and Nene would remain as veteran mentors until 2016.

The centerpiece is still Durant (and Wall).


I get it but Sanders is poison right now. Hopefully he turns his life around and doesn't end up like another very talented big man that just passed away (R.Tarpley).
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1739 » by hands11 » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:47 am

Amare Stat.. He likely lands in DAL if he is smart. But LAC could make sense. But I like him in DAL better.
Affalo and Chandler
Lawson.. I could see him going to Boston for picks. Boston has a ton.
Goran Dragic.. Looks like they will keep IT because they have no idea of Goran would resign there.
Roonie Brewer and Chicago talking
T Ross
Lopez..BRK are lukewarm on trading him now.

Portland could move CJ McCullon to find a known back up

Buy out deadline March 1st
POS Larry Sanders 10 time suspended it out there
KG maybe.

Man, if the players union continues to fight for the cap to go all the way to 90M all in 2016, there is going to be some crazy in the streets. But the Wizards are looking like they are set up really nicely. Wall and Gortat signed. Otto on a rookie deal. Webster will be a 2M buy out.

I was reading up on some other teams like POR and PHX and man do they have a lot to navigate. And exp. contracts aren't going to be worth as much since most people will have plenty of cap that year. But it is still worth something this year and next.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII 

Post#1740 » by FAH1223 » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:50 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/alexkennedynba/status/567431779368591362[/tweet]
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